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Solstice
Some questions about how you converted.

1. Did you assign more than the default build points?

2. Did you assign more bp and then spend total karma?

3. Did you just convert using the published quick conversion methods?


If you could just state what method you used (and how many BPs you used for the character with x karma) and how you think it turned out.

I'm struggling mightily with trying to portray my SR3 character with some kind of continuity in SR4.

Misc questions:

1. No more chipjacks?

2. Are armor prices/stats still good in Canon Companion?

3. What is the rationale behind SR3 characters potentially having :nuyen:750,000+ cyberware at creation and SR4 characters only potentially having nuyen.gif 200,000?

4. What about contacts that have been used extensively through SR3 careers? SR4 doesn't exactly lend itself to having multiple contacts.



In closing, I just want what you all want. A character that functions in SR4 without being overpowered but retaining the same feel. I'm not sure that's possible using the current rules but I'll die trying.

Keep in mind I've read all of SR4 character creation rules.

Thanks for any help guys.
Codethulhu
1. No.
2. No.
3. No.

I had a firm idea of what my chaaracter concept was from the start. I went ahead with 400bp, tried to get the same skills the character was good at as before bought up. Then I added karma and 25-30% of earned nuyen on top and finished the process.

As to misc questions:
1. Datajack doubles as chipjack, knowsoft link and near-unlimited headware memory.
2. Check with your GM. Personally, I would not allow them
3. Cyberware is much, much cheaper now. You will get the same amount of chrome for 200k in SR4 as 750k netted you in SR3.
4. Au contraire, you will find a lot of connection/loyalty 3/3 or 4/4 for what a SR3 Friend for life cost you. High-level contacts are a lot cheaper, while acquaintences are more expensive. Overall, my SR4 characters tend to end up with more influential and more loyal contacts than my SC3 ones did.

Keep in mind that having 6 in a skill in SR4 is akin to having 8-9 in the same skill in SR3. The only characters that posed me problems converting, were the ones that relied on bending the rules as much as possible to get über. Characters with mnemonic enhancer springs to mind.
Butterblume
I didn't convert a char yet, so i can't help with that (i'll try converting my decker/face eventually, just to compare wink.gif ).


QUOTE (Solstice)

1. No more chipjacks?
[...]
3. What is the rationale behind SR3 characters potentially having :nuyen:750,000+ cyberware at creation and SR4 characters only potentially having  nuyen.gif 200,000?
4. What about contacts that have been used extensively through SR3 careers? SR4 doesn't exactly lend itself to having multiple contacts.

1. Chipjacks not needed anymore. If you really want chips, you probably can have chips with wireless connectivity wink.gif.
3. Need i say more than increased reflexes (2): 32k nuyen?
4. You can have multiple contacts, if you are willing to pay the price. For conversion you wouldn't have to pay the price, i think.
A pal of mine just created a char with a few loyal (6) connections, i wonder how that will turn out.
Solstice
QUOTE (Codethulhu @ Feb 4 2006, 12:50 PM)
1. No.
2. No.
3. No.

I had a firm idea of what my chaaracter concept was from the start. I went ahead with 400bp, tried to get the same skills the character was good at as before bought up. Then I added karma and 25-30% of earned nuyen on top and finished the process.

As to misc questions:
1. Datajack doubles as chipjack, knowsoft link and near-unlimited headware memory.
2. Check with your GM. Personally, I would not allow them
3. Cyberware is much, much cheaper now. You will get the same amount of chrome for 200k in SR4 as 750k netted you in SR3.
4. Au contraire, you will find a lot of connection/loyalty 3/3 or 4/4 for what a SR3 Friend for life cost you. High-level contacts are a lot cheaper, while acquaintences are more expensive. Overall, my SR4 characters tend to end up with more influential and more loyal contacts than my SC3 ones did.

I have a firm character concept...he's been played in SR3 for two real life years! My problem is I can't get him to convert accurately with 400bp. Maybe 400bp for just stats and skills but not 400bp with stats+skills+contacts+qualities+lifetsyles+nuyen.

Thanks for answering the misc questions btw.

Oh and why would you disallow the Canon Companion clothes/armor?

They don't look all that different from the stuff in the main book. And I'm not treating this character as new in terms of availability.

What about form-fit? We just pretend it doesn't exist?
Solstice
I'm also not at all happy with the positive/negative qualities situation. I don't see why they couldn't have kept many of the SR3 qualities. They go a long way toward fleshing out a character and now what do we do? Pretend that they don't exist anymore?

Vindictive?
Sea Madness?
Connected?

Reaping the benefits/disadavantages of these qualities all through SR3 campaigns should now be handled....???
Solstice
Well so far I've found that 460 bp's gets my character very close minus about five knowledge skills that there appears to be no SR4 equivalent for.

/wishes for McMackie's NSRCG in 4th ed.
Codethulhu
QUOTE (Solstice @ Feb 4 2006, 12:56 PM)
I have a firm character concept...he's been played in SR3 for two real life years! My problem is I can't get him to convert accurately with 400bp. Maybe 400bp for just stats and skills but not 400bp with stats+skills+contacts+qualities+lifetsyles+nuyen.

Thanks for answering the misc questions btw.

Oh and why would you disallow the Canon Companion clothes/armor?

They don't look all that different from the stuff in the main book. And I'm not treating this character as new in terms of availability.

What about form-fit? We just pretend it doesn't exist?

I would disallow cannon companion because the rules for stacking armor work differently now. And yes, everyone had form-fitting in SR3. For a IC explanation, I assume armor from 5 years ago will be obsolete by now, as far better (newer, more shiny!™) armor has come onto the market to combat the far better (newer, more shiny!™) guns. 5 years is a long time, when most shadowrunners live and die by keeping up with the SOTA. Assume an armor jacket has form-fitting body armor in it, and all's well and good.

As a rule of thumb, I see no reason to port equipment over because equipment no longe ravailable to me will not be available to my opposition either, so the power ratio is preserved. If i really had to pull something from 3rd ed into my campaign, it would be with huge minusses, and the risk of other runners scoffing at the players for hauling around a pre-crash relic on a run.

Do you have the character sheet for the character at the start (before session 1) of your old campaign? If tomorrow's quieter than i expect, I wouldn't mind having a go at making someone similar in 4th edition as a case study.
Solstice
QUOTE (Codethulhu)
QUOTE (Solstice @ Feb 4 2006, 12:56 PM)
I have a firm character concept...he's been played in SR3 for two real life years! My problem is I can't get him to convert accurately with 400bp. Maybe 400bp for just stats and skills but not 400bp with stats+skills+contacts+qualities+lifetsyles+nuyen.

Thanks for answering the misc questions btw.

Oh and why would you disallow the Canon Companion clothes/armor?

They don't look all that different from the stuff in the main book. And I'm not treating this character as new in terms of availability.

What about form-fit? We just pretend it doesn't exist?

I would disallow cannon companion because the rules for stacking armor work differently now. And yes, everyone had form-fitting in SR3. For a IC explanation, I assume armor from 5 years ago will be obsolete by now, as far better (newer, more shiny!™) armor has come onto the market to combat the far better (newer, more shiny!™) guns. 5 years is a long time, when most shadowrunners live and die by keeping up with the SOTA. Assume an armor jacket has form-fitting body armor in it, and all's well and good.

As a rule of thumb, I see no reason to port equipment over because equipment no longe ravailable to me will not be available to my opposition either, so the power ratio is preserved. If i really had to pull something from 3rd ed into my campaign, it would be with huge minusses, and the risk of other runners scoffing at the players for hauling around a pre-crash relic on a run.

Do you have the character sheet for the character at the start (before session 1) of your old campaign? If tomorrow's quieter than i expect, I wouldn't mind having a go at making someone similar in 4th edition as a case study.

Yeah I can whip one to you. Just PM me tomorrow and I'll write it up tonight for you. Only, that case isn't converting a starting SR3 character to SR4. My hangups occur with converting an existing SR3 character to a reasonable facsimile in SR4.


I guess the whole underlying factor that I'm really struggling with is the timeline then. My characters are in mid-conspiracy and we aren't about to launch five years into the future. But we should still be able to use the SR4 rules. I was under the impression that SR4 conversions meant exactly that: you convert your SR3 campaign to SR4, not scrap your entire campaign, fast forward five years and then start using SR4 rules. It should be snap-in not contextual.

I have a hard time understanding why a new dice system would be dependent on a arbitrary point in fictional time, nor do I see why the designers would want it to.

If what you say is the case, then I see more and more reasons why we can't convert to SR4 in our current campaign.



Looks like a huge disappointment so far. frown.gif
jklst14
Solstice,
I have a character who I've played since SR1 and in every incarnation/game edition, he has always used a Browning Max Power. To convert the Max Power to SR4, I just changed the damage code to match other heavy pistols (5P) and dropped the cost to match the Colt Manhunter (since Heavy Pistols are a little cheaper in SR4 than in SR3). Done!

Now if you have a character who really wants to keep his Diving Armor or Mortimer Great Coat (both with SR3 armor values of 4/2 - same as a lined coat), adjust the armor values upward to 6/4 (same as an SR4 lined coat) and keep the price about the same (armor costs seem pretty constant between SR3 and SR4).

As for the qualities, you would have to work out each one individually with your GM. As a rule of thumb, I'd guess a 1 pt SR3 quality convert to a 5 pt SR4 quality.


jkl
TinkerGnome
Conversion is tricky. I'd be inclined to simply have everyone create 400 bp characters and bring forward karma and 25%-50% of earned nuyen.

One thing that you have to do when converting from SR3 to SR4 is divorce yourself from the original numbers. Sure, your SR3 character had three stats at six and four skills at six, but your SR4 character almost definitely won't.

If you don't care to let everyone see them, you could always post any characters needing conversion and let the forums as a whole tackle them.
Solstice
QUOTE (TinkerGnome)
Conversion is tricky. I'd be inclined to simply have everyone create 400 bp characters and bring forward karma and 25%-50% of earned nuyen.

One thing that you have to do when converting from SR3 to SR4 is divorce yourself from the original numbers. Sure, your SR3 character had three stats at six and four skills at six, but your SR4 character almost definitely won't.

If you don't care to let everyone see them, you could always post any characters needing conversion and let the forums as a whole tackle them.

You know that thought sprang to mind but my character would just get ripped apart by the resident rules lawyers and anti-munch protestors and probably degenerate into a total disaster but I may try anyway.

The character probaby has some errors but I've tried to audit him numerous times.
TinkerGnome
Just state up front that it's an existing character, any house rules it was built under, and that you're not looking for comments on the original build wink.gif

One of the "problems" is going to be that a very munchy SR3 character won't be as powerful in SR4 if built in a similar way. He'll likely still be very good at what he does, but not to the same level.
Solstice
Ok well against my better judgement here goes. I'll only post the pertinent numbers and cyberware.

Human, Male

Attributes
Body 6(9)
Quickness 5
Strength 7
Charisma 4
Intelligence 6
Willpower 5
Essense 1.28
Reaction 5
Init. Dice 1(2)


Total Karma 15 (it's been spent but I can't remember where)


Edges and Flaws
Bonus Attribute Point (STR) +2
Connected level 1 -> Arms +3
Extra Contact +1
Sea Madness -4
Vindictive -2

Active Skills
Assualt Rifles 5
Heavy Weapons 4
Launch Weapons 4
Pistols 5
Rifles 3
Athletics 6
Stealth 4
Martial Arts (Wild Cat): 4
Parachuting 3

Knowledge and Language skills
Arms Dealers 3
Shadowrunner Haunts 4
Sixth World: Miltech Manufacturers 3
Interest: Desert Wars 4
Survival: Navigation 4
Academic: Physics/Ballistics 3/5
Academic: Military Theory 4
SWAT Team Tactics 4
English/military jargon 4/6
English R/W 2
German 4
German R/W 2

Cyberware

Kevlar bone lacing
Boosted reflexes 1
Dermal plating 2
Smartline II
+range finder
Skillwires 5 MP 150
Datajack
Chipjack multislot
Expert chipjack driver 3
Radio 1
Subvocal mic
Eyes+flare compensation
Internal GPS

Weapons
Savalette Guardian SL2
Colt Cobra TZ-118
Ares Alpha
Franchi SPAS-22

Armor

Armante "Dallas" shirt
Armante "Dallas" slacks
Mortimer "Greatcoat" coat
Form-fitting full body suit
Camo full suit
Armor vest with plates

To reiterate, I can get pretty close to the same concept using 450 bps (of course minus the cyberware.
TinkerGnome
What race?
Solstice
Now for my new SR4 incarnation:

Attributes
Agility 4
Body 5
Reaction 3
Strength 5
Charisma 3
Intuition 2
Logic 3
Willpower 3
Edge 2

Active Skills
Dodge (Rea) 3
Group: Firearms (Agi) 4
Group: Outdoors(Int) 2
Armorer(log) 2
Group: Athletics(Str) 3
Group: Stealth(Int) 3
Unarmed Combat(Agi) Specialize Martial Arts 3
Gunnery(Agi) 2
Heavy Weapons(Agi) 3
Parachuting(Bod) 3

Knowledge Skills
Academic: Military Theory and Tactics 3
Street: Organized Crime by syndicate 2
Street: Local Area Knowledge of Illegal or Restricted Items 2
Academic: Physical Sciences, Physics 1
Interests: Sports, Urban Brawl 2
Interests: Games, Live Action, Desert Wars 3
Professional: Security, Tactics 3

Qualities
Don't know what to do yet.

That should put me pretty close to 450 with nuyen and contacts included.
Solstice
QUOTE (TinkerGnome)
What race?

Human, i edited the SR3 version
TinkerGnome
That is a tricky conversion, to say the least. I think the attributes are about the best you're going to get within the 200 BP cap on them.

For skills, I'd suggest:
Dodge (Rea) 3 - 12 bp
Group: Firearms (Agi) 4 - 40 bp
Armorer(log) 1 - 4 bp
Group: Athletics(Str) 2 - 20 bp
Group: Stealth(Int) 3 - 30 bp
Unarmed Combat(Agi) 3 - 12 bp
Gunnery(Agi) 2 - 6 bp
Heavy Weapons(Agi) 2 - 6 bp
Parachuting(Bod) 3 - 12 bp

That comes out to 142 bp, which is still on the high side, but not as bad. That leaves you with qualities, resources, and contacts for the rest of your points. You don't really have any edges that you still need to take as qualities (the contact stuff is all covered by the new contact system), but you should be able to talk your GM into the following negatives:

Vindictive (should give you a noterioty point) -5
Sea Madness -10 (based off the value of an uncommon, moderate allergy)

That gives you a total available point pool of 73 points. Spend 23 on contacts and 50 on resources (max) or something similar. Skillwires are no longer the twinkfest they once were with the removal of the CED, but you might consider dropping a couple of your lower skills and chipping them instead.

Actually, to get a set of cyber similar to what you list won't take very many points at all. Just be sure to boost your firewall rating on your commlink through the roof.

EDIT: If you buy everything outright, it's around 50k, and everything alphaware (which gets the essence cost about the same) comes out to about 100k. An advantage you're going to have is that you can throw a lot more into your cybereyes at no essence cost under the new rules.

Assuming you spend 150k total on your gear, that's 20 more points for skills and contacts.
Solstice
QUOTE (TinkerGnome)
That is a tricky conversion, to say the least. I think the attributes are about the best you're going to get within the 200 BP cap on them.

For skills, I'd suggest:
Dodge (Rea) 3 - 12 bp
Group: Firearms (Agi) 4 - 40 bp
Armorer(log) 1 - 4 bp
Group: Athletics(Str) 2 - 20 bp
Group: Stealth(Int) 3 - 30 bp
Unarmed Combat(Agi) 3 - 12 bp
Gunnery(Agi) 2 - 6 bp
Heavy Weapons(Agi) 2 - 6 bp
Parachuting(Bod) 3 - 12 bp

That comes out to 142 bp, which is still on the high side, but not as bad. That leaves you with qualities, resources, and contacts for the rest of your points. You don't really have any edges that you still need to take as qualities (the contact stuff is all covered by the new contact system), but you should be able to talk your GM into the following negatives:

Vindictive (should give you a noterioty point) -5
Sea Madness -10 (based off the value of an uncommon, moderate allergy)

That gives you a total available point pool of 73 points. Spend 23 on contacts and 50 on resources (max) or something similar. Skillwires are no longer the twinkfest they once were with the removal of the CED, but you might consider dropping a couple of your lower skills and chipping them instead.

Actually, to get a set of cyber similar to what you list won't take very many points at all. Just be sure to boost your firewall rating on your commlink through the roof.

EDIT: If you buy everything outright, it's around 50k, and everything alphaware (which gets the essence cost about the same) comes out to about 100k. An advantage you're going to have is that you can throw a lot more into your cybereyes at no essence cost under the new rules.

Assuming you spend 150k total on your gear, that's 20 more points for skills and contacts.

Yeah looks pretty good. The only problem I have is that the active skills don't portray the character for what it is. The skill rankings (ie 2=novice) don't reflect properly it seems like to me. Am I getting to hung up on the skill number vs. the skill+attribute?
TinkerGnome
QUOTE (Solstice)
Yeah looks pretty good. The only problem I have is that the active skills don't portray the character for what it is. The skill rankings (ie 2=novice) don't reflect properly it seems like to me. Am I getting to hung up on the skill number vs. the skill+attribute?

I think that's part of it. Part of it is that the way skills work now means that training/experience and natural ability are equally important. From the layout of the skills, I'm assuming some sort of merc or military background. It's hard to hit all of the things that someone like that should be relatively trained in under the new skills system.
Solstice
Ok well I can deal with that. I'll be happy with the final product after spending 14 karma.

So, any thoughts on the Canon Companion weapons?

Martial Arts?

Custom vehicles? grinbig.gif
TinkerGnome
Well, CC weapons are entirely up to the GM. You should be able to work up something similar to what's in the core book with him.

Martial arts is a spec of unarmed combat. I dropped it from the skill buying because it's incredibly cheap to buy specializations after character creation (2 bp vs. 2 karma).

Custom vehicles are going to fall on the GM, again. I'd advise him to be very careful of high armor values, though.
Solstice
Anyone have any thoughts on how to handle extraneous nuyen? I have a character with ~ nuyen.gif 700,000. He doesn't spend it much, but it was a potential unbalancer in SR3, Lord knows what it could do in SR4.

Thoughts?
Cold-Dragon
well, with a cash soy-cow that big, hackers stealing portions or some nut trying to 'steal it' legitimately is always possible. Depends on your players character standings really.

Of course, he may be saving up to buy that permanent luxury lifestyle....
TinkerGnome
Most of the groups I've played in have used cash for karma rules. It really helps balance out the mundane and magical characters if you keep careful tabs on how much cash is being handed out.
Brahm
QUOTE (Solstice @ Feb 5 2006, 01:01 AM)
Anyone have any thoughts on how to handle extraneous nuyen? I have a character with ~ nuyen.gif 700,000. He doesn't spend it much, but it was a potential unbalancer in SR3, Lord knows what it could do in SR4.

Thoughts?

Nearly 3 times maximum starting cash? Aieeee! That'll get you outfitted with some very nice Alpha bioware plus more. That'll get you your maximum +3 IP costing only 1.2 essense, and you'll have over 200,000 left over for odds and ends.


I just glanced at your converted character. Where did the Gunnery come from? You were thinking that for Launched Weapons from a vehicle?

What about the cyberware and bioware, I must have missed that in the conversation? Sorry, I tried to follow the thread.

The low Edge is something that is going to hurt you, especially if you aren't going get at least a bit of IP ware. Combat without at least 1 extra IP is short, painful, and generally TEH SUK. Without ware or high Edge a mundane has to rely on a mage sustaining a spell on him. I don't know your group, but usually that is not a good idea.

Your other Attributes are maybe a bit high. Shave a point from Logic and a couple from Str? I know the original had a Cha of 4, but Cha 3 with no Cha skills seems a bit of a waste at the start.

You might want to take a hard look into Negative Qualities. There aren't the powergamer bargins they use to be, but their are decent quality trade-offs depending on character plans. If you aren't going to have ware, or are going with the more cash expensive bioware but very little or no cyberware then Sensitive System is a natural choice.

EDIT For the love of your character find somewhere to squeeze in a point or two of Perception. Hard to shoot what you don't notice.
Solstice
QUOTE (Brahm)
Nearly 3 times maximum starting cash? Aieeee! That'll get you outfitted with some very nice Alpha bioware plus more. That'll get you your maximum +3 IP costing only 1.2 essense, and you'll have over 200,000 left over for odds and ends.


I just glanced at your converted character. Where did the Gunnery come from? You were thinking that for Launched Weapons from a vehicle?

What about the cyberware and bioware, I must have missed that in the conversation? Sorry, I tried to follow the thread.

The low Edge is something that is going to hurt you, especially if you aren't going get at least a bit of IP ware. Combat without at least 1 extra IP is short, painful, and generally TEH SUK. Without ware or high Edge a mundane has to rely on a mage sustaining a spell on him. I don't know your group, but usually that is not a good idea.

Your other Attributes are maybe a bit high. Shave a point from Logic and a couple from Str? I know the original had a Cha of 4, but Cha 3 with no Cha skills seems a bit of a waste at the start.

You might want to take a hard look into Negative Qualities. There aren't the powergamer bargins they use to be, but their are decent quality trade-offs depending on character plans. If you aren't going to have ware, or are going with the more cash expensive bioware but very little or no cyberware then Sensitive System is a natural choice.

EDIT For the love of your character find somewhere to squeeze in a point or two of Perception. Hard to shoot what you don't notice.

Ok for one thing: This isn't a starting character. This character has done quite a few runs (1-3 karma each) and has amassed cash in various ways. This isn't starting cash and I'm treating it seperately from the cash purchased with BPs.

So keep that in mind with any suggestions. I still only have nuyen.gif 250,000 to spend on ware etc.

What is +3 IP?

Gunnery came from merc background, vehicle weapons etc. The original character was a non-rigged helicopter pilot using skillsofts. The skills aren't something I'm willing to compromise on, I feel I've already radically changed how my character feels.

I haven't done the SR4 ware yet that is why you haven't seen it but I'll have it up shortly.

I'm not partciularly worried about Edge, mainly because, though I've read the combat section, I'm still unsure what the dynamic is.

The other attributes are a bit high, because they are high in SR3. This is a conversion and I feel I need to maintain the characters feel in SR4, whether it makes sense from a munchkin point of view or not.

My GM and I will work out the two negative qualities the character had in SR3. Probably having a total of 15 from the two negative qualities.

Ok I'll maybe use some karma to get some Perception.

Thanks for your input.
Solstice
QUOTE (Solstice @ Feb 4 2006, 03:21 PM)
Now for my new SR4 incarnation:

Attributes
Agility 4
Body 5
Reaction 3
Strength 5
Charisma 3
Intuition 2
Logic 3
Willpower 3
Edge 2

Active Skills
Dodge (Rea) 3
Group: Firearms (Agi) 4
Group: Outdoors(Int) 2
Armorer(log) 2
Group: Athletics(Str) 3
Group: Stealth(Int) 3
Unarmed Combat(Agi) Specialize Martial Arts 3
Gunnery(Agi) 2
Heavy Weapons(Agi) 3
Parachuting(Bod) 3

Knowledge Skills
Academic: Military Theory and Tactics 3
Street: Organized Crime by syndicate 2
Street: Local Area Knowledge of Illegal or Restricted Items 2
Academic: Physical Sciences, Physics 1
Interests: Sports, Urban Brawl 2
Interests: Games, Live Action, Desert Wars 3
Professional: Security, Tactics 3

Qualities
Don't know what to do yet.

That should put me pretty close to 450 with nuyen and contacts included.

Cyberware
Ware Essense Cost
Commlink 0.016 4600
Datajack 0.08 1000
Smartlink 0.08 2000
Image Link 0 25
Bone Lacing, Alum 0.8 30000 2 body, 1 impact
Orthoskin 0.5 60000
Reaction Enhancers 0.48 40000 rating 2
Skillwires 0.48 12000 rating 3

Totals 2.736 149625

The rest of the nuyen.gif 250,000 will be spent with a DocWagon contract and misc gear.



Another question: What do we do with SR3 gear we spent big money on that is no longer in SR4? I thought I read somewhere that we could cash it in for nuyen if there was no equivalent in SR4.
TinkerGnome
Doesn't look bad, but I'd highly suggest putting in a set of wired reflexes.
Solstice
QUOTE (TinkerGnome)
Doesn't look bad, but I'd highly suggest putting in a set of wired reflexes.

Maybe later. Skill wires + wired reflexes shouldn't be compatiable IMO, plus reaction enhancements + wired reflexes is a no no.
TinkerGnome
Skill wires were compatable with wired in SR3 wink.gif

I don't see why reaction enhancers and wired wouldn't work together. Reaction is a regular attribute now and the enhancers only indirectly boost intiative.
Solstice
QUOTE (TinkerGnome)
Skill wires were compatable with wired in SR3 wink.gif

I don't see why reaction enhancers and wired wouldn't work together. Reaction is a regular attribute now and the enhancers only indirectly boost intiative.

Indeed. But intiative is a derived attribute that includes reaction no? Therefore, wired reflexes cannot be combined with any other initiative enhancement, and by proxy reaction enhancements in turn enhance initiative. Therefore, reaction enhancements + wired = no no.

That's my take on it anyway.

You should start a new thread to see if that is the case or not.
TinkerGnome
Well, it's not a direct increase, so it shouldn't count.

This thread and this thread agree with me. wink.gif

The main thing is to keep people from getting 4 IP cheaply.
Solstice
thanks for the links. Is that the official response or just a consensus among some regulars?
TinkerGnome
Nope, no official response. However, it makes a some degree of sense.

The street sam in the sample characters has a boosted reaction and wired 2 (though I can't figure out what's giving him that boost...).
Solstice
QUOTE (TinkerGnome)
Nope, no official response. However, it makes a some degree of sense.

The street sam in the sample characters has a boosted reaction and wired 2 (though I can't figure out what's giving him that boost...).

Negative. He does not. SR4 pg. 101. Street Sam. Cyberware is listed as:

Wired Reflexes (alpha) 2, Dermal plating (alpha) 2, Muscle replacement (alpha) 2, Cybereyes (rating 3, w/flare compensation, low-light vision, protective covers, smartlink, and thermographic vision)

All other sample characters have one or the other, wired or reaction enhancements.

TinkerGnome
Take a look at how his attributes are listed, though. He's getting a boost from something/somewhere. I just don't know where or how wink.gif
Solstice
QUOTE (TinkerGnome)
Take a look at how his attributes are listed, though. He's getting a boost from something/somewhere. I just don't know where or how wink.gif

Ok Mr. Fancypants. Wired reflexes give you +1 reaction and +1 initiative per rating point.

So rating 2 wired reflexes will boost reaction +2 and Initative +2.

So his stats should be Reaction: 4(6), Intuition: 3, and Initiative: 7(9)

That is the correct stats and those are the stats in the book.

You can mail me a cookie.

TinkerGnome
Ah, that explains it. I didn't realize that the cyber stuff adds straight to reaction. The spell version adds straight to initiative instead and had me confused.

This just means that you'd run into the reaction cap pretty quickly if you start stacking stuff... hmm...
Solstice
Ok well now that we aren't off on that tangent anymore lets get back to some pertient questions:

1. What to do with extraneous nuyen earned in SR3?

2. What to do with big ticket items and other gear bought in SR3 that supposedly do not exist in SR4?
eidolon
QUOTE (Solstice)
Ok well now that we aren't off on that tangent anymore lets get back to some pertient questions:

1. What to do with extraneous nuyen earned in SR3?

2. What to do with big ticket items and other gear bought in SR3 that supposedly do not exist in SR4?

QUOTE (Solstice)
1. What to do with extraneous nuyen earned in SR3?


Unless you think it's horribly important to the story, ditch it. It's not like you have to keep it, really. I'm assuming you have one of those "if I had this much money, I wouldn't need to run" situations? If you get your character to the point that he's playable, but your biggest problem is "I have too much money", just flip the pencil around and rub. smile.gif

QUOTE (Solstice)
2. What to do with big ticket items and other gear bought in SR3 that supposedly do not exist in SR4?


Why, you forget it ever existed and bow down to the new version. Do not question Father. There is no logical problem with this.
Solstice
QUOTE (eidolon)
QUOTE (Solstice @ Feb 5 2006, 03:52 PM)
Ok well now that we aren't off on that tangent anymore lets get back to some pertient questions:

1. What to do with extraneous nuyen earned in SR3?

2. What to do with big ticket items and other gear bought in SR3 that supposedly do not exist in SR4?

QUOTE (Solstice)
1. What to do with extraneous nuyen earned in SR3?


Unless you think it's horribly important to the story, ditch it. It's not like you have to keep it, really. I'm assuming you have one of those "if I had this much money, I wouldn't need to run" situations? If you get your character to the point that he's playable, but your biggest problem is "I have too much money", just flip the pencil around and rub. smile.gif

QUOTE (Solstice)
2. What to do with big ticket items and other gear bought in SR3 that supposedly do not exist in SR4?


Why, you forget it ever existed and bow down to the new version. Do not question Father. There is no logical problem with this.

I thought you guys were knowledgable? Please read paragraph 1 of Step 6: Gear and Contacts on page 6 of the SR3 to SR4 conversion guide.

cyber.gif
Solstice
I guess I answered my own question #2 but it doesn't say anything about large nuyen amounts. Oh well the character will probaby get thrown in prison and lose it all.
Cold-Dragon
only if he required high bail of some sort, heh. lawfully speaking, being arrested doesn't make you lose your fortune, just access to it. Of course, never been in jail, so prove me wrong!

How did this player get this money? How much did he get per run? etc?
Solstice
QUOTE (Cold-Dragon @ Feb 5 2006, 04:35 PM)
only if he required high bail of some sort, heh. lawfully speaking, being arrested doesn't make you lose your fortune, just access to it. Of course, never been in jail, so prove me wrong!

How did this player get this money? How much did he get per run? etc?

I'd have to ask my GM but most of it involved some fairly high pay/run and doing some stuff for NovaTech as well as playing the stock market based on shadowtalk, tips from Miles and Richard, and selling captured arms. Edge=connected (arms) gave the character alot of money as well.

I will just have to figure out a way to get rid of the characters money. Maybe just buy lifestyles or a helicopter.
nick012000
I'll point out that he could boost his IPs pretty easily with Combat Drugs.
TinkerGnome
How I would handle the cash and gear.
  1. Any gear that can't be used in SR4 would be refunded at full price to the player.
  2. The player could purchase anything he wanted and could aford that would come forward. For instance, permenant lifestyles.
  3. 25-50% of the remaining cash would come forward into SR4 (depending on GM desire).
There are two (not huge) problems with using drugs to boost initiative passes. First, there aren't any prices for drugs in the SR4 book, though that's really a minor issue. Secondly, it takes a full combat turn for drugs to take effect. So, at best, you'd get the benefit on round 2 if you weren't controlling the situation (assuming you're going with Jazz instead of Cram). Not horrible, but by the second turn many combats are already almost over.
nick012000
If you're in combat and not controlling the situation is SR, you're probably about to die anyway. wink.gif
eidolon
QUOTE (Solstice)
I thought you guys were knowledgable? Please read paragraph 1 of Step 6: Gear and Contacts on page 6 of the SR3 to SR4 conversion guide.

cyber.gif

'kay. Just read it again. Oh look. There's nothing there that answers the question, save a note that you should coordinate with your game master (which would most likely solve your problem).

Or you could keep asking for "rules" to solve something that isn't really a problem.
TinkerGnome
QUOTE (nick012000)
If you're in combat and not controlling the situation is SR, you're probably about to die anyway. wink.gif

Well, there's a often a big difference between not controlling it for one pass and not controlling it for an entire combat turn wink.gif Like I said, they're relatively minor issues, but they are issues.
Solstice
QUOTE (eidolon)
'kay. Just read it again. Oh look. There's nothing there that answers the question, save a note that you should coordinate with your game master (which would most likely solve your problem).

Or you could keep asking for "rules" to solve something that isn't really a problem.

Are you also not able to read?

"Step 6: Gear and Contacts
Players and gamemasters should coordinate to pick out
appropriate gear equivalents for their games. If an SR3 item or
an equivalent does not exist in SR4, the gamemaster should allow
the character to replace it with something worth a roughly
equal nuyen amount or to simply sell it for the nuyen value.
In
addition, all characters should receive a basic commlink for free
(see Cyberdecks and Commlinks, above)."


That's what I'm talking about. Thoughts on it or do you want to continue to tell me it doesn't exist?
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