If you were making an SR MMO, what edition would you want to start with? Ignore any points on realism, just go with your gut.
Would it be different in another genre such as action FPS, squad-based shooter, or Real-time strategy? Or something else completely...
Full Version: SR MMO, what edition would you want?
Realism is my gut. I'd start of scratch using elements from all 4 systems that just happen to work well in the game. The basic stat and skill systems would be overhauled to match the requirements of such a game. And it would be a first/third person massivly multiplayer online roleplaying shooter with a squad option in there somewhere and an option for basebuilding and accompanying stratagy elements.
Are these polls somehow related to the Shadowrun Online project?
SR2 is what I'd want for one reason: grounding. I was really hurt that they took that out of SR3.
SR2: Lol tee hee I am teh powerful mage with lots of foci, lol lol lol. OH NO, WHERE DID THAT HELLBLAST COME FROM?!?!?!? Blarg, I am slain.
SR3: Lol tee hee I am teh powerful mage with lots of foci, lol lol lol.
By the way, I find it disheartening that so far more people voted for SR4 than for anything else. I really do, especially after all the wonderful hostility and skepticism that we used to have here towards SR4. I mean, SR4 missed the things that really count: firearms realism and the 80s.
SR2: Lol tee hee I am teh powerful mage with lots of foci, lol lol lol. OH NO, WHERE DID THAT HELLBLAST COME FROM?!?!?!? Blarg, I am slain.
SR3: Lol tee hee I am teh powerful mage with lots of foci, lol lol lol.
By the way, I find it disheartening that so far more people voted for SR4 than for anything else. I really do, especially after all the wonderful hostility and skepticism that we used to have here towards SR4. I mean, SR4 missed the things that really count: firearms realism and the 80s.
Truth lives.
~J
~J
Well, I will say that SR Online's current design docs on mechanics seem unrelated to any edition of shadowrun. So I was wondering what edition might be best.
On further reflection, I think this poll is somewhat invalid due to the fact that a person could want SR4 rules, but SR3 fiction, or SR1 in 2070, or other things.
On further reflection, I think this poll is somewhat invalid due to the fact that a person could want SR4 rules, but SR3 fiction, or SR1 in 2070, or other things.
SR4 all the way. If for no other reason then that it could make selling the PnP game easier.
MMO? Blech.
| QUOTE |
| MMO? Blech. |
Ah, the ever popular expression of disdain rather than doing anything constructive. 
The disdain is because many folks here are justifiably of the opinion that any MMO could not possibly maintain the serious, grim 'n gritty atmosphere essential to the Shadowrun genre.
Despite any efforts by the developers, good intentions can never survive the assault of the mass of epic stupidity that makes up a huge chunk of any MMO playerbase.
Click here for an example from another game.
-karma
Despite any efforts by the developers, good intentions can never survive the assault of the mass of epic stupidity that makes up a huge chunk of any MMO playerbase.
Click here for an example from another game.
-karma
LOL
One problem in adapting The Matrix to a game is that the movies deal almost exclusively with the univers as it pertains to the most important person in it. In an MMO, you are not important.
Conversely, in Shadowrun, your character lives in a world where they are pretty much by definition unimportant. I think comparing SR to The MAtrix in this respect forms a false analogy
One problem in adapting The Matrix to a game is that the movies deal almost exclusively with the univers as it pertains to the most important person in it. In an MMO, you are not important.
Conversely, in Shadowrun, your character lives in a world where they are pretty much by definition unimportant. I think comparing SR to The MAtrix in this respect forms a false analogy
Ah to add in random code to have Mr Johnsons doublecross you at random times.
"OK guys, we talk to this NPC and head back out of the corp building to the entrance. This will be easy Karma, I did it with my Rigger last week."
They get near the entrance and 40 lonestar with LMG spawn and mow them down.
"OK guys, we talk to this NPC and head back out of the corp building to the entrance. This will be easy Karma, I did it with my Rigger last week."
They get near the entrance and 40 lonestar with LMG spawn and mow them down.
| QUOTE (KarmaInferno) |
| The disdain is because many folks here are justifiably of the opinion that any MMO could not possibly maintain the serious, grim 'n gritty atmosphere essential to the Shadowrun genre. |
Understandable, but not really all that useful for a topic about an SR MMO. Saying you don't think it can be done adds absolutely nothing to the discussion apart from an implied "I wouldn't buy it."
| QUOTE (Konsaki) |
| Ah to add in random code to have Mr Johnsons doublecross you at random times. "OK guys, we talk to this NPC and head back out of the corp building to the entrance. This will be easy Karma, I did it with my Rigger last week." They get near the entrance and 40 lonestar with LMG spawn and mow them down. |
Twisted. I love it.
| QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ May 1 2006, 10:45 AM) | ||
Twisted. I love it. |
More phat loot! Those LMGs aren't cheap on the black market and I know just the NPC! I'm Immune to Normal Weapons and you have Mil-Spec Armor and a ton of Body, let's go!
Personally, I'd want SR4....'cause I enjoy the wireless & I love technomancers. Storyline-wise, it might be more fun to live through the peak of Dunklezahn's popularity.
This has actually been discussed on the SRO forums. Greypawn, the main architect of this project, has stated that this world will be set in the 2050's, iirc. As for mechanics, he is thinking more of trying to emulate the feel of SR & keep the main storyline, as working out a turn-based MMO is too hard at this point to even contemplate.
He's got some pretty good ideas...now if he could only get Microsoft to run with it...if you want to look at his initial proposal that he took to MS for last year's E3, you can look here, it's a download. If you want to look at some of the design docs, check here.
This has actually been discussed on the SRO forums. Greypawn, the main architect of this project, has stated that this world will be set in the 2050's, iirc. As for mechanics, he is thinking more of trying to emulate the feel of SR & keep the main storyline, as working out a turn-based MMO is too hard at this point to even contemplate.
He's got some pretty good ideas...now if he could only get Microsoft to run with it...if you want to look at his initial proposal that he took to MS for last year's E3, you can look here, it's a download. If you want to look at some of the design docs, check here.
| QUOTE (James McMurray) | ||
Understandable, but not really all that useful for a topic about an SR MMO. Saying you don't think it can be done adds absolutely nothing to the discussion apart from an implied "I wouldn't buy it." |
So only "useful" opinions are allowed? And the judge of an opinion's usefulness would be...?
Lets take a look at your response:
| QUOTE |
| SR4 all the way. If for no other reason then that it could make selling the PnP game easier. |
So I suppose if I had included "I voted for SR3" (which I did) in my first post, it would have made my opinion as "useful" as yours?
And you're right. I wouldn't buy it. I don't think anyone could do justice to the real game. I'm also personally against paying for a game more than once. I might wait a year and buy a single player SR game out of the bargain rack just to see how badly it was done, but I'd never pay upwards of 10 bucks a month to play a glorified "kill the other players" contest online.
I'd prefer an alternate history in which Dunkie didn't off himself. If you're going to have a MMO RPG an alternate metaplot would be quite useful so that the online games metaplot can advance seperatly from the primary metaplot.
| QUOTE |
| So I suppose if I had included "I voted for SR3" (which I did) in my first post, it would have made my opinion as "useful" as yours? |
Yep. Saying you'd prefer SR3 (and hopefully giving a reason) is a useful opinion. A response that doesn't answer the question is not useful at all. The question was "which edition would you want to use?" Your answer was "sod off." Utterly useless. Your vote, however, was useful.
| QUOTE |
| I'd never pay upwards of 10 bucks a month to play a glorified "kill the other players" contest online. |
Neither would I. If it allowed PvP at all (and it almost certainly would in today's market) I would hope that you could get yourself situated on a nonPvP server and just play the game.
I personally would prefer a single player game, and might not even buy an MMO unless they somehow made it possible to solo runs. And since solo runs don't really fit the theme of SR, I doubt there would be a lot of those. I'd much rather play a game where I could control a team of runners, or at least have some hirable runners with a decent AI so I wouldn't have to try and mesh schedules with other people just to go on a run.
If they did it like WoW and had seperate areas where you could go to that are specifically designed for PvP that'd be cool. I might never go there, but it could be interesting to be able to play the assault force trying to take down a mafia don who has hired an opposing team to defend himself.
But since the question was about an MMO I left all that stuff out.
Sod off.
Hi people !
I would use SR 4 rules for 2 reasons .
1. The update of the rules weas needed to keep Shadowrun a believable world .
Now, in the year 2006, even my mom is using w-lan to acces the internet. An outdated science fiction world , like SR 3 , is simply not believable .
2. The possible players of a SR mmo game.
There are 2 possible playerbases of a SR mmo game :
- the normal mmorpg player, playing it just because it is another new mmorpg
- Sr pen and paper players, playing it because it is Shodowrun
For the first group, the normal mmorpg players, the rules are absolutly unimportant , they will adapt whatever rules are used without spending a second thought about them .
The second group, SR pen and paper players, allready know the game, the rules and the setting . Writing Shodowrun on the box and then delivering something different would be a slap in the face of the possible customer base.
Turning away 1 of the 2 possible consumer groups would be a very bad idea i think, just look at D&D online.
Just my opinion to SR online :
I would use SR 4 rules for 2 reasons .
1. The update of the rules weas needed to keep Shadowrun a believable world .
Now, in the year 2006, even my mom is using w-lan to acces the internet. An outdated science fiction world , like SR 3 , is simply not believable .
2. The possible players of a SR mmo game.
There are 2 possible playerbases of a SR mmo game :
- the normal mmorpg player, playing it just because it is another new mmorpg
- Sr pen and paper players, playing it because it is Shodowrun
For the first group, the normal mmorpg players, the rules are absolutly unimportant , they will adapt whatever rules are used without spending a second thought about them .
The second group, SR pen and paper players, allready know the game, the rules and the setting . Writing Shodowrun on the box and then delivering something different would be a slap in the face of the possible customer base.
Turning away 1 of the 2 possible consumer groups would be a very bad idea i think, just look at D&D online.
Just my opinion to SR online :
| QUOTE |
| He's got some pretty good ideas...now if he could only get Microsoft to run with it...if you want to look at his initial proposal that he took to MS for last year's E3, you can look here, it's a download. If you want to look at some of the design docs, check here. |
I have read all and everything on that side and i think the concept and ideas are horrible, better no SR mmorpg at all then something like this .
Shadowrun MMORPG.
That's something I have thought about a long, long time ago already (and plenty others, too). Never bothered writing down a concept documentation, though, since it is so damn unlikely to ever happen to be of any use.
IMHO Shadowrun is almost the perfect background for an MMORPG style game, and I have numerous ideas how to make one (though the technical realization could be problematic in some areas... on the other hand, there is plenty experience in this field these days, so things become easier obviously), but alas, with Microsoft holding the license, it's rather unlikely, that I would ever get into the position to help making one.
Of course, one could always make one similar enough, but not quite as equal, so there is no copyright problem, but it's still cyberpunk with fantasy elements, but that would not be the same thing.
Even got some nifty ideas how to make the game full PvP (which it most likely had to be, as much as I despise PvP myself), without making it totally suck, thanks to the uber-immature players out there (key factors are a functional police, camera and drone surveillance so gunning someone down in random places becomes a really bad idea, and harsh sentences for getting caught (harsh, as in account lock for days or even weeks - guess that would be hard to realize with paying customers )). In fact, I would prefer it to be full PvP with real death (but death wouldn't come so easy and runners that are down would have to be illegal targets, even though that's a bit unrealistic there, but you must draw the line somewhere). That would also make Doc Wagon contracts useful!
What I also find very important is a highly sophisticated random mission generator, which should create really cool missions, which do not always appear too similar.
Such a game should not have the usual rare item hunting as a key element, in fact, there should be no such rare items at all (maybe hard to get items, but not this stupid random drop stuff). That's also something, that would be somewhat difficult to do... find decent rewards for major missions, i.e. special contacts, that are not supercool pieces of the latest ultrarare item set.
Anyways, I would definitely base it on the SR4 ruleset (and the background, too, although there are some elements, which would be nice to be different, but those are no biggies... AR alone is too good a thing to pass up).
Bye
Thanee
That's something I have thought about a long, long time ago already (and plenty others, too). Never bothered writing down a concept documentation, though, since it is so damn unlikely to ever happen to be of any use.
IMHO Shadowrun is almost the perfect background for an MMORPG style game, and I have numerous ideas how to make one (though the technical realization could be problematic in some areas... on the other hand, there is plenty experience in this field these days, so things become easier obviously), but alas, with Microsoft holding the license, it's rather unlikely, that I would ever get into the position to help making one.
Of course, one could always make one similar enough, but not quite as equal, so there is no copyright problem, but it's still cyberpunk with fantasy elements, but that would not be the same thing.
Even got some nifty ideas how to make the game full PvP (which it most likely had to be, as much as I despise PvP myself), without making it totally suck, thanks to the uber-immature players out there (key factors are a functional police, camera and drone surveillance so gunning someone down in random places becomes a really bad idea, and harsh sentences for getting caught (harsh, as in account lock for days or even weeks - guess that would be hard to realize with paying customers
)). In fact, I would prefer it to be full PvP with real death (but death wouldn't come so easy and runners that are down would have to be illegal targets, even though that's a bit unrealistic there, but you must draw the line somewhere). That would also make Doc Wagon contracts useful! What I also find very important is a highly sophisticated random mission generator, which should create really cool missions, which do not always appear too similar.
Such a game should not have the usual rare item hunting as a key element, in fact, there should be no such rare items at all (maybe hard to get items, but not this stupid random drop stuff). That's also something, that would be somewhat difficult to do... find decent rewards for major missions, i.e. special contacts, that are not supercool pieces of the latest ultrarare item set.
Anyways, I would definitely base it on the SR4 ruleset (and the background, too, although there are some elements, which would be nice to be different, but those are no biggies... AR alone is too good a thing to pass up).
Bye
Thanee
If I were doing I would use SR4 because using any other edition would undoubtedly create marketing problems. You need to keep all of the products, no matter if they are developed by different design teams and license holders, consistent to reinforce the brand as a whole.
| QUOTE (Brontal) |
| I have read all and everything on that side and i think the concept and ideas are horrible, better no SR mmorpg at all then something like this . |
Out of curiosity, what is so horrible about these ideas? How would you approach it differently?
| QUOTE (Thanee) |
| Never bothered writing down a concept documentation, though, since it is so damn unlikely to ever happen to be of any use. |
According to Greypawn, Microsoft showed interest at E3 & they actually entered preliminary talks...before the FPS for X-box took center stage. Now it's likely that MS interest in a SR MMO hinges on the success of the FPS...
It's not really that I'm thinking there will never be a SR MMORPG, it's just a matter of time, especially now with the huge influx, but my notes in particular would prolly be of limited use then.
Bye
Thanee
Bye
Thanee
| QUOTE (Brontal) |
| 1. The update of the rules weas needed to keep Shadowrun a believable world . |
Perhaps you could work on that whole suspension of disbelief thing. I'm constantly amazed that people take the "if they hadn't changed it it wouldn't have made any sense" track, as if everything had made "sense" in the first place. Why couldn't the SR world have developed differently than our own? (Ignore, for purposes of my rhetorical question, the fact that it did.)
Do you have problems playing D&D because there aren't wireless computers every five feet?
And before you respond that when you play D&D, you don't expect there to be, let me just pre-answer: exactly.
You give me the ability in an MMO to slip onto a rooftop with a high-caliber rifle and wait for one of my enemies to go walking on by, or to go roping down the side of a building/elevator shaft, and I'll be a happy guy.
D&D is not set in our future, with a technological curve that starts where ours left off in the 80s. If it were then I would definitely want there to be wireless access points all over the place.
| QUOTE (eidolon @ May 1 2006, 08:02 PM) |
| Do you have problems playing D&D because there aren't wireless computers every five feet? And before you respond that when you play D&D, you don't expect there to be, let me just pre-answer: exactly. |
Yeah, but that doesn't prevent D&D from adding more historical items as they are discovered or translated into the game. Back in the day, we had lots of D&D sourcebooks coming out with new gear and gear from different regions - even time periods.
I'd use the SR4 world because it's more fun than the SR3 world.
| QUOTE (James McMurray) |
| D&D is not set in our future |
Neither is Shadowrun. Or did you miss that Warren Burger held out for nearly a decade longer in SR than in real life?
~J
It's set in our technological future, with the vast majority of it's past being the same as ours. That's close enough for me.
Why do you guys focus on this wireless thing? Did you ever read Matrix? There were rules for RF links (wireless technology is just standardized radio). They sucked in comparison to sat links too because sat links would halt trace attempts at the sattelite (utterly decimating my GM's cliche attempts at tracking us).
| QUOTE (Brontal) |
| 1. The update of the rules weas needed to keep Shadowrun a believable world . Now, in the year 2006, even my mom is using w-lan to acces the internet. An outdated science fiction world , like SR 3 , is simply not believable . |
I'm of the opinion that SR is an 80s game. I like the retro-80s tech feel of SR2 and SR3. It was the 80s jive that attracted me to SR in the first place many years ago.
| QUOTE (James McMurray) |
| D&D is not set in our future, with a technological curve that starts where ours left off in the 80s. If it were then I would definitely want there to be wireless access points all over the place. |
Says who? There are such things as technology destroying apocoli.
Bah, it's more 80s than ever. AR Gloves, Miracle Shooter is just Duck Hunt, escapist culture under a fascist government. Look at the cover of SR4: 1 ninja, guy in pink sunglasses and matching shorts, jammer pants, giant rats, and oppressive asian influence. Technomancers are just DARYL.
.
.
Third edition setting and physics, with select elements of the 4th.
| QUOTE (KarmaInferno) |
| The disdain is because many folks here are justifiably of the opinion that any MMO could not possibly maintain the serious, grim 'n gritty atmosphere essential to the Shadowrun genre. |
I would have to disagree. Now I might catch some flak just for mentioning Guild Wars but, the way they handle missions and such might work well for something like Shadowrun. What I mean is, you have hubs where the players can meet and form groups, instead of a city or outpost like in Guild Wars you can make them clubs or even a few blocks of whatever district you're in (that way you can have shops and stuff...). Then you instance the missions, or anything outside the hubs.
As far as skills and combat and stuff, I'd try to keep it as close to the actuall PnP rules set. If possible just code the mechanics of the PnP game straight to the MMO game. much like KotOR did with the D20 system.
As far as what system, I'd say SR4 for tie in sales of the PnP game. That and it would be fairly easy for newer people to pickup on the mechanics. As far as the setting, well that would have to be 2060.
But that's just my opinion, and everyone knows that's an entirely different kind of flying altogether...
That is a very good question eidolon and i will try to be as exact as possible.
The D&D setting is based on an not very exact defined medieval timeframe without the aim to reflect the medieval "realty" , for example the hygienical situation of that time .
The roots of the main aspects of the game are based on fiction / fantasy / fairy tales .... . the evil wizzard, orks, dragons, magic, mysterious dungeons, elfes, a cursed wood, etc. .... without the purpose to reflect a "real" world .
So as long as you, or me, are willing to "dive" into this fary tale world it is believable because ( sorry since english is not my first language it is difficult to describe ) it is fantasy by default .
The setting of Shadowrun on the other side is based on the real world which I and you can see everyday when looking out of the window. It is a not to far fictional version of the future. It is using places, names and tools of the actual happening real world. If I had the money and the time I could jump into the next plane and visit the scenes described in the Shadowrun books. I can goggle for "Hecklar & Koch", "Krupp" or "Lone Star" and get results of now existing real companies .
So Shadowrun is basicly aiming to reflect a fictional version of the real world with the addition of fantasy / fary tale elements.
The D&D setting is based on an not very exact defined medieval timeframe without the aim to reflect the medieval "realty" , for example the hygienical situation of that time .
The roots of the main aspects of the game are based on fiction / fantasy / fairy tales .... . the evil wizzard, orks, dragons, magic, mysterious dungeons, elfes, a cursed wood, etc. .... without the purpose to reflect a "real" world .
So as long as you, or me, are willing to "dive" into this fary tale world it is believable because ( sorry since english is not my first language it is difficult to describe ) it is fantasy by default .
The setting of Shadowrun on the other side is based on the real world which I and you can see everyday when looking out of the window. It is a not to far fictional version of the future. It is using places, names and tools of the actual happening real world. If I had the money and the time I could jump into the next plane and visit the scenes described in the Shadowrun books. I can goggle for "Hecklar & Koch", "Krupp" or "Lone Star" and get results of now existing real companies .
So Shadowrun is basicly aiming to reflect a fictional version of the real world with the addition of fantasy / fary tale elements.
| QUOTE |
| 1. The update of the rules weas needed to keep Shadowrun a believable world . |
Because the reality Shadowrun is reflecting moved ahead of the presented fiction in the game . (I hope that sounds understandable)
I hope that I could make my point of view clear, if not feel free to ask me.
@Valentinew
I think this is not the right place or the right topic to discuss what i do not like about the SRO project. I will send you a private message as soon as i find the time.
| QUOTE (ChuckRozool) | ||
I would have to disagree. Now I might catch some flak just for mentioning Guild Wars but, the way they handle missions and such might work well for something like Shadowrun. What I mean is, you have hubs where the players can meet and form groups, instead of a city or outpost like in Guild Wars you can make them clubs or even a few blocks of whatever district you're in (that way you can have shops and stuff...). Then you instance the missions, or anything outside the hubs. |
I was referring, actually, to the playerbase, not anything the developers might try to create.
For every serious player, there will be ten player that don't give a damn about the setting or how the world is supposed to be, and will go around with stupid names screaming leetspeak and generally breaking immersion in the worst way possible.
"ZOMG I H4VE CLAWWS I R WULVEREEEN!!!one!"
ugh.
A squad-sized online game, sure. An MMO? Not unless they can somehow institute intelligence checks before you can get in.
-karma
elitist
Here is the problem. SR is such an emmently leathal setting, where Joe Wageslave with his Glock can flatout kill a hardened runner by blindly fireing. It would make for a lousy setting where a NPC can easly one shot kill you. Never mind the fact that SR dosent easly support ressurecting that well at all.
And never mind the fact that you would almost need to have a PvP element, which would consist of one asshat sitting on a roof top a mile away with a barret and his mage buddy running cover.
And never mind the fact that you would almost need to have a PvP element, which would consist of one asshat sitting on a roof top a mile away with a barret and his mage buddy running cover.
I'm sure someone will come along and remind you that such comments are useless in this thread, because wanting an MMO is prerequisite to wanting an edition for the MMO, but...
Obviously the MMO would have to present tweaked mechanics to preserve characters. You can sure bet that the SR game for 360 isn't going to let players die over one lucky shot on the part of joe wageslave. Furthmore, I'm willing to bet that the 360 game will not feature abuse of the extreme range of some weapons being kilometers. If the whole game comes down to you pissing someone off and them spraying you down from ten blocks away with an HMG, that's not entertainment even in the PnP game.
Foremost on my mind, and the number one complaint I would bring up, would be that MMOs have a tendency to never offer long-term storytelling elements and all you do comes down to finding a job then squishing a monster or (worse) delivering something to someone. True, it will have to support the 20 minutes at a time casual types, but something meangingful could be accomplished in a game in an hour's play. But then, how would you counterbalance that so everyone on a team gets their fair share of face time? It's a quandry
Obviously the MMO would have to present tweaked mechanics to preserve characters. You can sure bet that the SR game for 360 isn't going to let players die over one lucky shot on the part of joe wageslave. Furthmore, I'm willing to bet that the 360 game will not feature abuse of the extreme range of some weapons being kilometers. If the whole game comes down to you pissing someone off and them spraying you down from ten blocks away with an HMG, that's not entertainment even in the PnP game.
Foremost on my mind, and the number one complaint I would bring up, would be that MMOs have a tendency to never offer long-term storytelling elements and all you do comes down to finding a job then squishing a monster or (worse) delivering something to someone. True, it will have to support the 20 minutes at a time casual types, but something meangingful could be accomplished in a game in an hour's play. But then, how would you counterbalance that so everyone on a team gets their fair share of face time? It's a quandry
What I don't seem to follow is why people think that if you are running an MMO, you would use all of the game mechanics. That just would not happen. MMO's use complex lighting and physics engines. Bullets will arc, etc. If there is a MMo it will use the genre and feel of the game but overlayed on a much more complex system. Can you imagine people playing this? I would be glued online till I had like 10 million karma pool. Muahaha ... and I can survive nuke blasts. The karma pool mechanic could be a neat feature, but it would have to be something that you employ before you attempt something.
Has anyone here played DDO? I ask because it's advertised as being the PnP put online & I'm curious as to how successful the game is...what I saw of it didn't impress me, but that was months before it's release.
I am not expecting any MMO to mirror the PnP game, any more than the Sega game mirrored it. What I do expect is to retain the flavor & storyline of SR.
I am not expecting any MMO to mirror the PnP game, any more than the Sega game mirrored it. What I do expect is to retain the flavor & storyline of SR.
Here's what a guy at another board said about DDO. I've never played it (or even seen it played) so I can't verify anything.
| QUOTE |
DDO is TEH SUXX0RZ>. Here are my reasons why I say that (find a comfy seat, it's a long and bumpy ride): Utterly unfaithful to the chosen Setting, "Eberron":
Unacceptibly unfaithful to the 3.5e rules, despite promises to the contrary:
<b>Poorly conceived game interface:</b>
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| QUOTE (James McMurray) |
|
I must play this game. Or at least send the developers some money.
~J, possessed of an inordinate loathing of sorcerers
Is the loathing a personal preference thing because you prefer people to memorize spells or something else?
A few reasons. Part of it is that I find the idea of wide-scale innate magical talent in humans (within the context of D&D) to be offensive—I've never liked the memorization system, but I like even less the departure from it while it's left in the game. More importantly, though, the class system (which has always been a bit of a stretch) makes absolutely no sense for them—they have innate magical talent, it isn't something they study at. As a result, there's no reason that I've found why a sorcerer spent all that time somehow learning to be a sorcerer rather than, say, another class.
I will admit that my personal preferences with regards to D&D are unusually stringent—this is the result of my realization several years ago that it would never be the game I wanted to play most of the time, so I settled on it being the game I wanted to play when I wanted a particular kind of experience. As a result, anything deviating from that experience (like all of 3.0/3.5 and several things about 2e) is likely to provoke disfavour in me.
~J
I will admit that my personal preferences with regards to D&D are unusually stringent—this is the result of my realization several years ago that it would never be the game I wanted to play most of the time, so I settled on it being the game I wanted to play when I wanted a particular kind of experience. As a result, anything deviating from that experience (like all of 3.0/3.5 and several things about 2e) is likely to provoke disfavour in me.
~J
Cool. I completely disagree with you on the sorcerer issue, but this isn't a D&D board so I'll just leave it at that.
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