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Eismann
QUOTE

The Chapter for Hamburg is from a team called "sons of stoertebeker" and there are from hamburg.


Well... no, it is not.


Ciao,

Eismann
Witness
Someone please tell me that RH has an index. There have been too many SR sourcebooks without indexes and I'm desperately hoping that this pattern will not be repeated in the SR4 line.
Shrike30
When is this expected to hit the FLGS's?
Grim
Okay then, i can only work with the information i get from my trusted game-dealer
Adam
Runner Havens should be in stores by late July / early August, and the PDF likely early next week -- I still have some bookmarking to do and then get it out to all the PDF sellers.
coyote6
Any word on how much the PDF will cost?
Witness
So I'm guessing, from the lack of confirmation, that there is no index. Real shame.
NightmareX
QUOTE (Adam)
Runner Havens should be in stores by late July / early August, and the PDF likely early next week -- I still have some bookmarking to do and then get it out to all the PDF sellers.

Sweeeeeeeet! cool.gif
Dogsoup
QUOTE (Witness)
So I'm guessing, from the lack of confirmation, that there is no index. Real shame.

True dat. RPG books really need their indexes since they're often crammed with clandestine terms and names.
JongWK
From FanPro's Retailer Newsletter:

QUOTE
Shipping Now:
Shadowrun — Runner Havens (Release Date: Monday, July 17th)

At the Printers:
Shadowrun — SR4 Gamemaster Screen #26002
SL James
What's ACHE?
knasser
For those who can't wait for Runner Havens and haven't noticed, yet, there's a 13 page preview available on the Shadowrunrpg site.

Maybe I'm the last to notice and everyone else has already read it. But if not, let me just say that it looks great, awesome AND fantastic.

Runner comments are back, though at first glance not so heavy as to distract from the general flow. Layout is good, graphics are nice. All reads concise and useful and there's a nice little line in discreet humour:

QUOTE

* <020270> The bug in the reputa-
  tion subsystem has been fixed.
  If your score’s still low, it’s not
  the software; you’re just an ass.
  —FastJack


Heh! It may be that they just included the good thirteen pages and the remainder of the book is the prebucesent ramblings of an eight-year old... but I really really doubt it. biggrin.gif

One sale made!
JongWK
QUOTE (SL James)
What's ACHE?

Arcology Commercial and Housing Enclave

By the way, RPG Now already has the full pdf for sale.
Witness
OK I've gone for it (apparently there isn't an index, which makes the pdf a more attractive option to me personally anyway, since it's easier to look things up.)

First impressions: looks good. Very good. There are (small but sufficient) maps of Hong Kong and Seattle, though not- sadly- of the other cities. There's a decent amount of shadowtalk, and generally speaking it seems to be to-the-point. You won't find huge long lists of hotels and restaurants in each district, like you used to, but *shrug* that's hardly a great loss.
jklst14
I got the PDF as well and I agree, it looks great so far.
SL James
QUOTE (JongWK)
QUOTE (SL James @ Jul 9 2006, 05:37 AM)
What's ACHE?

Arcology Commercial and Housing Enclave

hehehe

Oh, man... I guess this means I can't bomb it to dust.
Kalvan
So much time on their hands and still the editing is atrocious. (Aztan Leopard Guards, anyone?)
Ancient History
QUOTE (SL James)
QUOTE (JongWK @ Jul 9 2006, 05:08 AM)
QUOTE (SL James @ Jul 9 2006, 05:37 AM)
What's ACHE?

Arcology Commercial and Housing Enclave

hehehe

Oh, man... I guess this means I can't bomb it to dust.

"What happens in Seattle, stays in Seattle. Unless it follows you home."
FlakJacket
QUOTE (jklst14)
I got the PDF as well and I agree, it looks great so far.

What, if anything, is their copyright protection like?

QUOTE (Kalvan)
So much time on their hands and still the editing is atrocious.  (Aztan Leopard Guards, anyone?)

So send them an e-mail, I know the FanPro guys are always welcoming of constructive criticism/feedback. That way they can update it later on.
Adam
QUOTE (FlakJacket)
What, if anything, is their copyright protection like?

That depends on which site you buy it from. DriveThru and Paizo use watermarking, Studio 2, RPGNow, and BattleCorps do not have any copy protection. RPGNow is the only site with the book up right now ... I sent it out Friday night, which means the places that don't work weekends won't have it up until Monday, when the "official" PDF release date is.
Samaels Ghost
Isn't that a problem not having copy-protection? Does that mean you could share it with friend by giving them copies? That doesn't seem like a wise business move....What prevents people from distributing copies to their friendsand anyone else for that matter?
Brahm
Watermarks don't really work to stop sharing with [trusted] friends. It is more a discouragement from sharing with the world. I haven't looked in a while to see what P2P stuff is out there, but last time I did for SR it was all hard copy scans. Even for books that had non-watermarked text PDFs versions for sale. Go figure. *shrug*
Derek
the lack of copy protection is basically a way of saying that they trust the purchasers to not freely distribute.

And thus, I reward companies who do business that way. For example, I have bought both a PDF version and a harcopy version of the SR4 core book, and will probably do that for many of the supplements. On the other hand, I don't buy things that use onerous copy protection, like any computer game from UbiSoft, which used the StarForce copy protection scheme which is infamous on the internet for a number of bad things.
FanGirl
I just got the pdf! love.gif

I've only had the chance to look it over for about thirty seconds, but I just want to say that I'm glad that they're continuing the Shadowland comments, just like in the older supplements. The comments weren't in the BBB, and I was slightly worried that they'd leave them out of the supplements, too. (Granted, I haven't seen any of the older BBBs, so my fears may have been unfounded.) biggrin.gif
knasser
QUOTE (Derek @ Jul 9 2006, 07:49 PM)
the lack of copy protection is basically a way of saying that they trust the purchasers to not freely distribute.

And thus, I reward companies who do business that way.  For example, I have bought both a PDF version and a harcopy version of the SR4 core book, and will probably do that for many of the supplements.  On the other hand, I don't buy things that use onerous copy protection, like any computer game from UbiSoft, which used the StarForce copy protection scheme which is infamous on the internet for a number of bad things.


Seconded, every word! I have bought numerous PDF's from DriveThruRPG. Even if they weren't watermarked then I still wouldn't share them. I appreciate companies that show me trust and I also appreciate companies that are smart enough not to cripple their product for the sake of those 1-2% who abuse their trust.

I have no problem with watermarking. DRM I will not touch because:
  • I prefer to buy things, not just licence them and allow someone else to tell me how or when I may use my property.
  • I want to ensure that I will always have access to what I have bought and that it wont become a useless pile of 1's and 0's in the future.
  • DRM doesn't work and I dislike condoning something that is misguided.
  • Though this is mainly true of the music and video industry rather than RPG books, I dislike the intent of the industry to change the purchasing model from ownership to licensing. If the content industry can get away with shifting the business model to pay-per-view (for movies) and pay-per-month/per-year (for music) then believe me, they will. And they'll screw every last penny out of people for doing so.
  • I dislike all the supporting requirements for DRM, i.e. it tells you what O/S you can use (I use Linux and couldn't for most DRM schemes ). Also with "Trusted Computers" (formerly Palladium but Microsoft changed the name when that one got too tarred with shit. When they say trusted, they mean trusted by them), the requirements for DRM are going to be A Very Bad Thing for the computer industry and society in general.
Here endeth the off-topic rant. I'll be getting the PDF from DriveThruRPG today, if they release it.

Oooh, DRM just gets me mad.
SL James
QUOTE (SL James)
QUOTE (JongWK @ Jul 9 2006, 05:08 AM)
QUOTE (SL James @ Jul 9 2006, 05:37 AM)
What's ACHE?

Arcology Commercial and Housing Enclave

hehehe

Oh, man... I guess this means I can't bomb it to dust.

Anyway, so I guess it's basically the same thing as it was before, only not limited to Renraku. That's... kind of boring.
Witness
QUOTE (SL James)
QUOTE (SL James @ Jul 9 2006, 02:37 PM)
QUOTE (JongWK @ Jul 9 2006, 05:08 AM)
QUOTE (SL James @ Jul 9 2006, 05:37 AM)
What's ACHE?

Arcology Commercial and Housing Enclave

hehehe

Oh, man... I guess this means I can't bomb it to dust.

Anyway, so I guess it's basically the same thing as it was before, only not limited to Renraku. That's... kind of boring.

Not really.
Now, apart from the ground floor mall which is much as it used to be, some 200 floors above that are a little bit like the biggest cut-price housing project ever, with added Big Brother government oversight (and rumors of Deus traps and toys still hidden here and there, especially on the top floors which are still totally sealed off). Bizarrely these public housing floors are still quite cut off from the rest of the world: basically a prison for the poor.
It's quite an interesting set up. Begs the question: 'why is the government doing this?'

Witness
knasser: totally with you on the DRM issue, although a watermarked pdf doesn't bother me much. (Although if somebody nicked my computer and distributed the file online I guess I'd get stuffed.)
FanGirl
This book contains my new favorite quote:
QUOTE
One night I was at Tux’s (the VR club where the patrons pick the theme each night) when a couple of Matrix gangs got into a difference of opinion over what the place should look like. One side wanted a geisha house while the other one wanted a circus theme. I’ll tell you, those geisha girls with monkey heads and clown shoes looked weird, but damn, they gave good virtual foot rubs!
> Slamm-0!
SL James
QUOTE (Witness)
Now, apart from the ground floor mall which is much as it used to be, some 200 floors above that are a little bit like the biggest cut-price housing project ever, with added Big Brother government oversight (and rumors of Deus traps and toys still hidden here and there, especially on the top floors which are still totally sealed off). Bizarrely these public housing floors are still quite cut off from the rest of the world: basically a prison for the poor.
It's quite an interesting set up. Begs the question: 'why is the government doing this?'

I...

Well, first off: Because they can.

Aside from that. I... Wow.
Witness
QUOTE (SL James)
I...

Well, first off: Because they can.

Aside from that. I... Wow.

Wow good or wow bad? (I need to ask, because it's you! wink.gif)
stevebugge
QUOTE (Ancient History)

"What happens in Seattle, stays in Seattle. Unless it follows you home."

Actually according to local radio stations the proper quotes is:

"What happens in Seattle ends up on Myspace.com"
Ancient History
QUOTE (SL James @ Jul 10 2006, 03:13 PM)
Well, first off: Because they can.

Aside from that. I... Wow.
FanGirl
Actually, it's more like Bourgeois Smash. If Intro Sosh has taught me nothing else, it's that working-class and poor people tend to use the "Shut Up And Take It" approach when dealing with government institutions. They're often too worried about rocking the boat, so they don't voice their concerns to members of these institutions.

(Edited several times for style.)
SL James
QUOTE (Witness)
QUOTE (SL James @ Jul 10 2006, 10:13 AM)
I...

Well, first off: Because they can.

Aside from that. I... Wow.

Wow good or wow bad? (I need to ask, because it's you! wink.gif)

When have I ever responded to something positively with, "Wow."

Answer for those playing at home: Never.
Derek
Why exactly do you think it is bad that there is no copy protection?

I mean, my opinion on it is that for those that are going to illegaly distribute, copy protection generally won't stop them, not with the large number of tools available on the net to break most any protection, and for those that aren't going to illegaly distribute it, copy protection is a pain in the ass, and often alienates honest customers.

So, whats your reasoning?



Edit: Of course, I just realized that your Wow comment was aimed towards something else entirely. I feel kind of retarded at this point.....
Geekkake
QUOTE (SL James)
When have I ever responded to something positively-

Answer for those playing at home: Never.

Quite.
SL James
For some reason, the only thing about the ACHE that makes sense is that it serves as a hive - compensation to the Bugs who helped reclaim the Arcology and parts of Seattle during the "unpleasantness."
Witness
Oh I can think of some alternative angles.
But at the end of the day what makes sense is that the devs wanted to create a future for the Arcology as a shadowrunning locale.
SL James
I was thinking of several other alternatives (by which, ACHE was never even a thought in my mind) which don't involve placing another Barrens in downtown Seattle.
Ancient History
Hah! You're a riot, SL James. Dinnae let anyone tell ye different.
Witness
QUOTE (SL James)
I was thinking of several other alternatives (by which, ACHE was never even a thought in my mind) which don't involve placing another Barrens in downtown Seattle.

It's not a barrens. Too much law and order. An anti-Barrens really. I think they've given it quite a unique feel. I can't think of another SR environment like it.
HalloranElder
Just bought Runner Havens from DriveThru, and have found a spelling mistake/Type already.

QUOTE (Runner Havens - Pg 74)
Seatle - The United Corporate Council
"After losing Dever back in the day Seattle is the last stronghold on this half of the continent. They're taking no chances."
* Pistons


I believe "Dever" should actually be "Denver".

And yes, I have already emailed them about it.
Witness
Aha! A separate index as pdf, eh? Well... better than no index at all. Thanks Fanpro.
Derek
Nice find!
coolgrafix
QUOTE (Witness @ Jul 12 2006, 03:50 AM)
Aha! A separate index as pdf, eh? Well... better than no index at all. Thanks Fanpro.

Now I guess the question is "Will the Index PDF be integrated into the PDFs being sold online?" It's a trivial matter for someone with Acrobat Pro to combine the two documents, but still I'm curious what FanPro will be doing with regard to this. Anyone?
Witness
Not entirely sure I see the point. It's easier to just search a pdf for the term you type in.
Jrayjoker
Well, I still prefer my books (e-book, pdf, or dead tree) to be as complete as possible. I have access to a binder and make hardcopy of my PDFs.
SL James
QUOTE (coolgrafix)
Now I guess the question is "Will the Index PDF be integrated into the PDFs being sold online?" It's a trivial matter for someone with Acrobat Pro to combine the two documents, but still I'm curious what FanPro will be doing with regard to this. Anyone?

I doubt it. If I couldn't save my fixes to the bookmarks in my Loose Alliances PDF (they are backwards in the Political Agitators chapter), I doubt I could do that either.
Ratio
QUOTE (SL James)
I doubt it. If I couldn't save my fixes to the bookmarks in my Loose Alliances PDF (they are backwards in the Political Agitators chapter), I doubt I could do that either.

I added the index and bookmarked it without any problems using Pro 7.0.8

Not sure where the problem would be. Other than using insert pages (shift+ctrl+i) as opposed to combine so that the page numbering scheme is saved thereby alleviating the hassle of redoing it.
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