If Emergence effectively demonizes TMs then a little hysteria will be likely, not matter how high-tech the setting. If TMs showing off their new abilities commit terrorism or the world knows that it was otaku that caused the Crash, then people won't accept them without a little time to adjust and some pro-TM activists in the mix. Depends on the events of Emergence. It a little silly to speculate before that happens.

Obviously our opinions differ. That's cool. FanPro agrees with me.

Maybe. The real problem is: How do you even recognize a TM?

From what I know of Emergence, there is a very good explanation for why there is hatred and distruct of TMs by some people.

You don't have to care how the internet works to be afraid of hackers. You don't have to care how magic works to be afraid of mages. You don't have to care how technomancy works to be afraid of technomancers.

I should read up more on the Crash of '64... I thought Deus was somehow involved in it.

As a victim.

Much of the potential uncertainty and suspicion surrounding TMs will have less to do with what they do but with the issues of how they do it, why they are able to do it, what the true extent of their abilities really is (and wrong assumptions that can be made), and who they are (and what distinguishes them from otaku). Emergence is at least partly about how society deals with something it doesn't understand or comprehend, and how the powers that be react to a new element in the(ir) playfield.

Can't help but chuckle at SL for berrating someone for doing things that make them look like a tool considering the content of posts he has made.

But, I do see your point. I'm not sure what is safe to talk about and what isn't when it comes to new stuff being put out so I would rather be cautious.




Just sticking to how the emergence of the existence of TMs could cause a backlash, irrational speculation could be very easy cause. The Matrix crashed just a few years prior and now here are people that are able to access the Matrix directly without any need of technology. One zealot with a microphone could spout that they had been there all along and caused all the problems with the Crash or any other problem with anything even linked to worldwide systems.

Your basic corporation is going to want to know how these people tick and if they can use them to their advantage. Or maybe just cut them open and see what may be different about them genetically.

Those in the know would wonder why TMs don't fade like the Otaku of old did.

And when the existence of TMs is first realized, your Joe Average citizen will not know the extent of their abilities and will start to fill in the blanks. "They can access the Matrix without any tech... does that mean they could get in my PAN with no problems? Could they get into my bank account and just take my money away?"

Yes, it might not be a new idea, but it's more refreshing than your posts have been lately. I think your tampon might need changing.

Like I said, different opinions. While I think my thought process is sound, I'll happily wait to see how FanPro rationalizes the TM prejudice, as it's apparent from their posts here that it exists.

Are you now, or have you ever been...

hmm, people. i fear we may soon get a visit from the great bull in the sky. so lets try and leave the personal bits out of it, ok?

all in all its just guesswork, but history (as in RL) have shown that a combo of uninformed/missinformed and scared can make people do very illogical things. so lets put a halt to this and wait to see how the book explains how things happen.

I doubt it. I've never seen a moderator say anything to people like SL James, Geekakke, Cain, and the like. Long term citizenship here seems to grant you immunity to the "don't be an ass" rules.

I think that a highly publicized case, or cases, or matrix crime and/or terrorism will be brought against a small group of Technomancers. The media frenzy will start a manhunt, and the TMs will strike back, probably crippling somegovernment agency or middle to upper tier corporation's online presence. That will be enough for the corporate owned media to raise the fear levels as high as they can, because when people are afraid they don't mind if you take peoples' rights away.

edit: had "moderator" and "SL James" cross wires in my brain so that the first post seemed to indicate that Bull was one of the people that acts like an ass.

Glad I could amuse.

I'm on a roll. Perhaps it's not the long term citizenship, but there are definitely people around who are very, um, abrasive who don't get called on it by the moderators. There are others who are less abrasive, but also less well-liked, who do.

That's all totally off topic to the post at hand though. If someone wants to continue the discussion I'd be happy to take it to PM.

I could very easily see Otaku/TMs being painted as scapegoats for Crash 2.0.

Yes, I know that it didn't happen that way, but enough corporate or government propoganda in that direction could easily convince Joe Average that it is the absolute truth. Especially considering the weird, semi-mystical way in which these individuals access the matrix, combined with the confluence of events.

That kind of coincidence is thrown out in court as inadmissable, but the court of popular opinion operates quite differently...

I'm pretty sure any Corp providing services in or about the matrix will be very swift to mute such paranoia: You don't want your sheep worrying too much.

Definitely. A new matrix threat means new matrix security suites, and those suckers aren't cheap.

i tend to view the corps as having a monopoly, or fairly close, on their own citizenry. that's not something SR's very clear on, though.

I can easily see how people could get worried about technomancers. It's not what the public knows, its what it doesn't know

It seems that a lot of people got the wrong end of the stick in the Crash2. For example Novatech got a heap of grief for their involvement, which was simply to be one of the first to die. Anyone who blamed Novatech may have gotten glimpses of the truth about AI's and the Otaku. Most likely it was hidden (especially by Renraku). Which is why Novatech got the grief it did.

Then technomancers emerge. Joe Public hears people can do weird things with their brains. First they ask where they came from, and their answers involve AI's, Otaku, Brainwashing, The Network, The Dissonance, (all of which acted in a very "we are not part of society" way) and their part in the crash. They already know about the Nukes and Winternight, but they always knew there were Nukes in the world. They didn't know there were AI's and Otaku, who could do what they did and played a pivotal role in almost sending us back to the dark ages.

Once all that brainwashing and mind changing stuff that the AI's did came out, you'll start wondering if these Technomancers can do that. Can they affect your mind? No one has the answer. Some say "of course not! Wireless networks can't affect your mind!" Yet a week ago, your mind couldn't affect wireless networks, and now it can (if you're a Technomancer).

Who are these people?
What do these people want?
What can these people do?
Are these people think like us at all?
How do we protect ourselves from these people?
What is being done to make sure these people don't hurt us again?
What do you do if you think James is one of these people?
Who do you call?

None of the SR4 groups I know has a technomancer as an PC, so no big problem here leaving them out.

No one is immune to account suspension due to activity. Some of those you have mentioned, Mr. McMurray, have been suspended in the past for the kind of behavior you mention. I should also point out that with regards to SL James as an "old timer", you registered your current account here 5 months prior to him. Hence, you've been here longer, under these accounts.

Likewise, I've been here longer than anyone you've mentioned save Cain (counting these accounts, anyway), and I have yet to recieve any communique (secret or otherwise) from any admin notifying me of my suspension-immunity.

Bull and Adam aren't locking people out for having the kind of bitchfests they do unless they begin to disrupt entire classes of discussion - re: SR3 vs SR4. This is because there's only so much Adam and Bull love to go around, and I imagine they trust you to be adult and not perpetuate these things in public.