Dude, just post a picture of her tits and everything will be settled.

Take my gaming wife... please! Right now she's upset because I won't roleplay with her and I need to do work (work as defined as checking DSF, of course). She's upset she had to miss Otakon to have our second child (Lucien). She also is exceptionally well endowed, which makes me wonder if there's a relationship between those features.

I haven't read the thread but I just want to say one thing about the original subject: In choosing a partner, what you are socialy programed to find attractive is just one of the things that influence you. I happen to believe that it's a rather small part of it. There might be a lot of orcs and trolls that have a fetish for elfs—but chemestry, instinct, mutual feelings from the intended partner and frequent social interaction should attract nearly all of them towards other orcs and trolls.

There have been some good points for Troll+Troll. The nature vs. nurtur discussion is off cause one that could fill pages upon pages, still as a biologist I´d tend to think nature outweights nurtur (though the later one definitly has some impact as well). General I´d say most born orks and trolls would go for their kind and would do so out of preference not only necesity, while many goblinized metas might want to go for norms or even elves (most would still end up with their own metatype however for lack of interest from most norms).
Off cause there will allways be some exceptions to this. Even today, there are people out there who prefer 'partners' from a wholy other species (or inanimate objects), so there will be people in shadowrun going for other metatypes, though the majority won´t.

Hi. Gaming Wife right here. It does happen, people. I spend about just as much time as my husband on DSF, spend just as much money on books, have more dice then he does and am trying to convince him to go to Gencon next year.
As for my other ... assets, well.. he's happy with them and I guess that's all that really matters.

Ain't she purdy.

I read this article years ago. I'd provide it if I had any clue where I read it. Where they took pictures of women who were generally considered beautiful by a given culture and showed them to men of another culture. The guys would see photos of women of their own culture, as well as several others, and tell the interviewer what they thought. It was pretty astonishing to me how very differently people from other cultures think of beauty. Men were looking for the exact opposite configuration of a given feature from what I would personally consider attractive.


As far as fantasy races go. I think their are ugly and pretty members of any race, when they are judged by members of that race. I think members of other races *sometimes* have features that another race would be attracted to (and may cause members of their own race to view them as average).

It always kills me when players insist on playing pretty elven women, "because their beautiful" (I had a female gamer actually tell me that, that was her reason). I definately create situations in my own games where that beauty works against them.

Their beautiful what, though?

~J

What we really need is troll S&M porn.

This thread is (getting) really nasty...

I want to add that cultural preferences do make up a great part of what you personally find attractive.
Yesterday, I read a few chapters from a book about cosmetic surgery and was surprised to find out how many people that migrated to America in the 19th century had cosmetic surgery to 'blend in'. Irish immigrants, for instance used to get nose jobs to conceal their pug nose (I really hope this is the correct term) which was associated with negative qualities.

There is therefore a clear cultural definition of attraction and this will influence all members of the culture to at least shift their personal preferences towards it and even to strife to obtain it themselves. A troll that is accepted by society will be affected by the cultural concept of beauty and will thus be more likely to fall for humans. This will make for some broken hearts and broken self images, since the one they fall for will be inclined to do the same.

Trolls (and orks) living in the sprawl will be less influenced by all this since they already feel like they don't belong in that culture. They will however be influenced by there surroundings in their choice for partners. So if orcs are considered the beauty standard in the sprawl, trolls will be more likely to fall for them than if trolls were considered to be beautiful there.

Did that make sense?

Yes, that's what I'm thinking too. The only thing that could affect that would be some genetic disposition to prefer partners of their own kind.
But since all races are sexually compatible, it would be surprising if it was so.

Of course, personal experience, subculture and taste can have an impact on who the individual will enventually prefer.

And as Aztlan's animation movies will tell you : "it's internal beauty that matters" (even if all the main characters (except for those supposed to be ugly) are humans and elves)

...cute, eh?

...requested in reply to Squinky's comment that no one sends him Dwarf Characters.

Tried to link to his actual post but for some reason my LinkFu is failing me today.

...'sides, to me a "buff" elf woman would look like Jennifer Garner. Mind you, that is not bad, but still...

Drawing dwarfs that don't look like wrinkly sacks of hairy crap can be a challenge. I knew I should have put a beard on her .

...I like the portrayal.

Two other good pics...

The Radical Eco Shaman from the SR4 Core book
The two female dwarf hackers in On the Run.

Alas, there seems to be a lack of good female Dwarf illustrations in earlier edition books. However those scrawny elves are all over the place.

...and please, no more talk about beards on Dwarves (especially the women), we already went through this one in another thread.

Coming out of a recent PM convo I have had the epiphany that what we really need is a run centered around an accidental drowning death during a troll bukkake film shoot.

Not that we have any evidence whatsoever of what Troll penis size will be, but I'd suggest checking the average penis size of Gorillas before you try to extrapolate based on body size.

~J

I've always looked at troll/human/elf attraction as more of a degree of masculinity thing rather than a racial thing. Just like some women like the big strong guy with calouced hands and perpetual stubble, and I don't see any reason for male trolls to be ugly rather than the embodiment of those sort of traits, I can see women liking trolls (or at the least being curious about it). Similarly some women go for the weaker more effiminate guys. I think the reverse is also true. Female orcs trolls are just (really) big, tough women, and there are guys that go for that. I'd link the SR Swimsuit Edition thread if it wasn't a dirty, dirty 4th Ed thread.

It may not be particularly scientific, but most players I know don't tend to play sexual frustration out in their character (they do enough of that in real life, HA), and said frustration would probably lead to a higher incident of domestic abuse amongst trolls and orcs, but most people are uncormfortable with racism and domestic violence individually let alone together, and it's a way to explain it away.

One issue I do wonder about is Libido. Elves live a long time, so wouldn't their libidos be naturally lower? Once you get past the 'pretty', being in a relationship with an elf could be very sexually unfulfilling, where as alternatively a troll or orc, lives for a relatively short amount of time. I think this either makes them a more desirable prospect in general, or helps to explain the lack of inter racial mating (sexual compatibility) depending on how you want to play it.

And while I think of it, I can't believe that while discussing dermal deposits noone use the phrase "ribbed for her pleasure".

Any time a thread begins discussing penis size it automatically goes to heaven when it dies.

I played a runty little troll mage who invested (iirc) 1 point in strength and 2 in body- he really didn't need more, that still made him rather tough and strong for a mage. He tended to go for orc girls if given the chance (more his size, and more of them around, too) but was so "cute" (max charisma and other mental stats) that the GM had big troll women hitting on him on the few occasions it came up.
Then again, being a mage with max mental troll stats (beyond max, actually- he had a cerebral booster) he probably would have had a lot of social opportunities normal trolls lack. Money and brains are as important as looks, so I'm sure even some human women would have found him attractive.

All right, I'm back. I’m slightly more...Qualified to comment here. No, I can’t claim to be a pre-awakening troll but I am quite… Large… Always have been. Now for a brief Biography.

Well not quite I was born relatively normal. 7 lbs some odd number of ounces I can never remember. By age Six I measured 4’10� and weighed in at slightly over 100 lbs. I was bigger than my first grade teacher let alone the rest of my class. By the end of grade school I had caught both my parents at 5’9� and nearly been thrown out of school for pummeling those who picked on my size. I pretty much coasted through middle school, reading Shadowrun books and smoking pot. By the time I started High School, I was 6’2� and weighed in at about 250-275 lbs. Today I stand about 6’7� and weigh about 350lbs I honestly don’t know what I weigh off hand I haven’t bothered checking for the last year or so… Needless to say I stand out a little bit… How often do you see someone the size of an offensive tackle dealing blackjack in a casino?

The average woman is about, 5’4�. I have a hard time really being attracted to women that small because it feels like I’m going to break them. It’s pretty difficult for me to be able to maintain a conversation without sitting down just so I can actually look at someone. Don’t even get me started with an attempt to dance… I guess the other Option would be to physically lift whomever I was speaking with up to my eye level but I really don’t think that would go over well.

Trolls I’m sure have many of these same problems trying to peruse a mate of the other metatypes, only magnified due to their dermal armor and even larger stature.