Full Version: Is Shadowrun an unequal world?
that is exactly the kind if thing i'm talking about.
| QUOTE (RH @ 69) |
| These fuckers pretty much wrote the book on conservative American political movements. Seattle’s chapter was among the first to open in the UCAS, and, I’m sorry to say, is one of the most influential ones. |
Aside from it being factually wrong (and then going on to describe the structure which is most readily likened (although not even close to based upon) Hizbollah's functions), it goes unchallenged and un-noted.
But, here, how's this?
| QUOTE (LA @ 28) |
| > Your objection is noted, but Shadowland does not filter access by creed or ideology. Fact is, we do have some Humanis supporters logging in, and fact is, some runners out there may end up working for Humanis or their ilk some day—willingly or not. I’m of the opinion that’s it best to go into a situation fully informed, and I also figure that any attention we give to Humanis types is more likely to hurt their cause than help—they have secrets to hide, and they prefer operating in the dark. > Captain Chaos |
Where are those people?
What you do get is crap like this:
| QUOTE |
| > So many racists, so little ammo … > Brick |
Which is in the Humanis section, but does he share that general impression of antipathy for all racists, like the Sons of Sauron or elven groups? Fuck no.
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| sorry, knasser, i'd meant to read that earlier, but i forgot. that's some good stuff, closer to what i'm talking about. there were some holes in OMFWOG's counterpoints that i'd have liked to see someone point out (orks aren't going to stop having octuplets just because they get an education, for instance), but overall it was a really good read. |
Educated orks are just as likely to concieve octupplets if they go about it the natural way. However, they are more likely to use hormore therapy to reduce their fertility and they are more likely selectivly abort seven of the eight to make things easier for them.
Racism can be best injected when conflicts are drawn around racial lines. Having someone make an off-hand 'dandilion eater' remark when talking about his runs in one of the Tirs is quite realistic. Selective racism is quite prevelant in times of conflict because both reinforce us/them attitudes.
I must agree with knasser about family ties making it difficult for real racism to take hold. It is kind of hard to seriously rant about ZOG when your fraternal twin brother was born a Jew. Of course, this is pretty much impossible while it is quite easy for your twin brother to be born an elf; or a dwarf; or goblinize.
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
| I must agree with knasser about family ties making it difficult for real racism to take hold. It is kind of hard to seriously rant about ZOG when your fraternal twin brother was born a Jew. Of course, this is pretty much impossible while it is quite easy for your twin brother to be born an elf; or a dwarf; or goblinize. |
I think the opposite. Your goblinized brother is a living reminder of what might have happened to you, and you're embarassed and ashamed of how ugly and different he is. Sure, you don't mean to be, so you stay away from him. He, on the other hand, gets quite bitter against humans as a result.
And, sure, some people were born with dwarven and elven siblings. Think the first child born in 2009 might not be bitter than all of his younger sibs are elves because he was born too early? Think he's bitter because he's not the "special" one? Hell, people find enough reasons to dislike their siblings today.
I agree. Mixed kids can be ostracized from any of their ethnic groups, and extended family ties don't necessarily mean a damn thing. Something like goblinization in the nuclear family is somewhat different, but I think arguing that family can resist racism places far too much faith in that social institution.
Assuming the family, or at least the parents, don't go batshit fucking crazy when they find out their daughter's a sinner because she can astrally perceive.
Er... I mean, "nothing."
Edit: Woops. Fixed a nasty typo.
Er... I mean, "nothing."
Edit: Woops. Fixed a nasty typo.
Hyzmarca beat me to it. I can't see there not being the technology for an orc mom to limit her offspring by 2070 and the way things have been going, I'm pretty sure there wont be much of a moral issue around the technology, either. And with an octuple birth? Oh yes - she's going to use it.
As to the comments about familial relationships hindering racism. In the long-term they wont. Only continued vigilance will keep racism from springing up. But after fifty years? I can see racism emerging by this point (and for the sake of a dystopian setting, I'll play it up), but I think Aunt Troll would in reality still be a big mitigating factor at this stage. The shared culture would likewise be a big help
Thanks for the comments. Yes - it's obviously too long for a piece inserted in something else. I like Kagatenshi's idea.
@mfb: Thank you.
You're right that it would have been interesting to expand OMFWOG's commentaries with some more counter-arguments against him. I really didn't want to spend more than an hour on the piece though and it would also have made it less of a coherent piece. Maybe what some of us should do is get in character and write such a Shadowtalk debate ourselves. Not sure who'd want to volunteer to get into the racist roles, though.
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
| Educated orks are just as likely to concieve octupplets if they go about it the natural way. However, they are more likely to use hormore therapy to reduce their fertility and they are more likely selectivly abort seven of the eight to make things easier for them. |
i'll grant that they're more likely to do so simply because they'll be more able to afford it. however, i'm not convinced that the number of educated orks who will undergo fertility reduction would be all that significant, mainly because i don't know the specific reasons why educated humans stop at 1-2 kids. if they stop at 1-2 because it only takes 1-2 pregnancies to convince mom that childbearing isn't fun, for instance (less-educated tends to equate with male-dominated, so mom will have less say in whether or not she continues to get pregnant), then i don't think many orks will necessarily go in for fertility reduction. if humans stop at 1-2 because they tend to sit down and plan to have 1-2 kids, then i'd agree that it's likely orks would do the same.
| QUOTE (Slithery D) | ||
I think the opposite. Your goblinized brother is a living reminder of what might have happened to you, and you're embarassed and ashamed of how ugly and different he is. Sure, you don't mean to be, so you stay away from him. He, on the other hand, gets quite bitter against humans as a result. And, sure, some people were born with dwarven and elven siblings. Think the first child born in 2009 might not be bitter than all of his younger sibs are elves because he was born too early? Think he's bitter because he's not the "special" one? Hell, people find enough reasons to dislike their siblings today. |
...I agree also. Again KK (the character) is my witness to this.
With regards to the general outlook of elves in the TT, Kyoto would be in the Goblinised sibling's shoes. Now add to the fact that she grew up in Salem where nearly everyone around her, (basically 99% of the population), was an elf . Kids can be cruel, really cruel. Even more so than adults. Living in this kind atmosphere during the formative years of her life had a powerful effect on her social development.
The phrase Never Trust an Elf is an axiom in her book.
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