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Fygg Nuuton
Even though the Troll tank has an extremely high Body and Strength, his lack of an intimidation skill hampers his ability to intimidate NPCs... Who knew?

I won't let people play half-elves. (true story)

The NPC adept pulled a pin out of a grenade attached to the chest of the samurai... Who then failed his Quickness test to get rid of it in time.

The weapons the special ops team use have a Smartlink safety installed.

I send in the HTR team when the players bring the minigun out.

The security rigger calls in for magic support instead of sending wave after wave of easily defeated security guards.

Mil-spec armor is never on special.


grinbig.gif
fistandantilus4.0
well, the troll generally would get a modifier to intimidation because of large size (superior/dangerous/armed/whateverthehellthemodifieris), but if he doesn't even have it at 1, he does have to default.

Could be worst..... you could kill someone in a rating 2 astral quest. biggrin.gif

BTW, what was the difficulty to toss the grenade. if it's riight on his chest, I wouldn't imagine it being that hard to toss a (average) 5 second fuse grenade in 3 seconds (1 combat round), unless there's mitigating circumstances I'm not seeing.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Fygg Nuuton @ Sep 28 2006, 07:39 PM)
Even though the Troll tank has an extremely high Body and Strength, his lack of an intimidation skill hampers his ability to intimidate NPCs...  Who knew?

Yeah, I'd say it's bad GMing to have him not successfully intimidate (most) people. To not intimidate them into doing what he wants them to do, though…

QUOTE
The NPC adept pulled a pin out of a grenade attached to the chest of the samurai...  Who then failed his Quickness test to get rid of it in time.

This one does sound like bad GMing. Care to explain why it required a test?

QUOTE
The security rigger calls in for magic support instead of sending wave after wave of easily defeated security guards.

Some drones would probably do a better job for less money.

~J
SL James
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
This one does sound like bad GMing. Care to explain why it required a test?

Why shouldn't it?
Kagetenshi
Well, the fact that it sounds like this was being carried for quick detachment, as currently described it was still attached to the streetsam's chest, and there is that whole "fuse time" thing that Fistandantilus points out. Basically, I'm seeing the operation as only mildly more difficult (mostly due to stress) than grabbing the same grenade and using it deliberately—and if there are circumstances that would make that require a test, Mr. Nuuton has yet to describe them for us.

~J
wargear
QUOTE (Fygg Nuuton)
Mil-spec armor is never on special.

Fiend.
SL James
Well, I'm going to have to take his word for it that in 5 seconds the sam somehow failed to do it, which reinforces my thinking that it should require a Quickness test to do.
Slithery D
I'd require a test to notice the pin was pulled.

"He sort of limp wristedly slapped you, and sort of copped a feel on your web belt, to no obvious effect. And it sounds like he dropped a penny."
Kagetenshi
Depending on the circumstance, I might call for a perception test to figure out that a pin got pulled. I'd probably ask for some kind of Willpower test, and if /that/ was failed ask for a Quickness test.

I'm also not entirely sure on your logic there, James—he failed to do it because the GM required a test, and nothing but circular logic will allow that failure to support requiring a test.

~J
BookWyrm
I think it's canon that there are NO half-metas in SR, in any edition.

The Initimdation skill doesn't necessarilly have to come from the Troll Tank. i.e;
Bob: Look, you have a choice.
Captured Guard: I do?
Bob: Yes. You can tell us where {insert item} is.....or.....
Captured Guard: Or?
{The Troll Tank steps up beind Bob, overshadowing both}
Bob:...or, I can give you to him.

If the sam failed his Quickness roll to get rid of the grenade, it's his own fault.

The Smartlink safety is there, but who really uses it?

The HTR team has a Minigun too. And the triggerman has been having a bad day.

The sec-rigger called in the magic support because his supervisor told him to.

The ONLY reason mil-spec armor goes on sale is because it failed.
mmu1
QUOTE (Fygg Nuuton)
Even though the Troll tank has an extremely high Body and Strength, his lack of an intimidation skill hampers his ability to intimidate NPCs... Who knew?

Hamper, or make it impossible? Hamper I have no problem with, and I wouldn't let it work by deafult on professional opposition, but I'd rather stretch things a bit and let a troll intimidate people a bit better than the RAW indicates, than have a world in which trolls are actually among the least intimidating of all races, because of their lousy Charisma.

Though I too have qualms about the grenade issue...

1. The street sam ought to have been able to get rid of it virtually at will - it reminds me of people requiring a roll to drop a grenade on the floor, and having disastrous consequences because of a "miss" - some things just shouldn't require rolling.

2. Even if I was making someone test in that situation, it'd have been Reaction, not Quickness.

3. An NPC being able to pull out the pin in the middle of the fight suggests one of two things: either incredible luck on his part, or the GM making it much too easy to do.

hyzmarca
My security riggers forgoe magical support in favor of sealing all of the air-tight doors in the sector and activating the gas dispersal systems. Depending on the building and the rigger the gas may or may not be deadly. If that fails they he activates the multiple gun turrets and snakespine whips equiped with hull cutters on every segment. The troll in milspec ain't going to resist naval scale damage and the PCs aren't going to be able to steal giant cybernetic tentacles that are attached to the building.
Fygg Nuuton
QUOTE (Fygg Nuuton @ Sep 28 2006, 05:39 PM)
Even though the Troll tank has an extremely high Body and Strength, his lack of an intimidation skill hampers his ability to intimidate NPCs...  Who knew?

I won't let people play half-elves. (true story)

The NPC adept pulled a pin out of a grenade attached to the chest of the samurai...  Who then failed his Quickness test to get rid of it in time.  (yes it was a dick thing to do, but the player didn't get mad at it.  And we all learned a new way for stealth to be deadly that day)

The weapons the special ops team use have a Smartlink safety installed.

I send in the HTR team when the players bring the minigun out.

The security rigger calls in for magic support instead of sending wave after wave of easily defeated security guards.

Mil-spec armor is never on special.


grinbig.gif

Yeah, was meant to be a semi funny-type post, in the hopes people would post similar situations, but nonetheless I will explain as best I can.

1. Hamper, he had to default... with a 1 charisma.

2. I know there are no half elves, but you still get people asking why.

3. Bad perception on all of the PC's parts, good stealth roll on the enemies part. By the time the mage pointed with a scared look on his face, the sammy freaked out and fumbled with it.

4. Just because I don't think they would pay good money for runners to pick up and use their own weapons against them. They could be removed later though.

5. Well duh.

6. Well, thats what I would do if nothing else worked.

7. Double duh.
SL James
QUOTE (BookWyrm)
I think it's canon that there are NO half-metas in SR, in any edition.

It is quite canon.
wargear
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
My security riggers forgoe magical support in favor of sealing all of the air-tight doors in the sector and activating the gas dispersal systems. Depending on the building and the rigger the gas may or may not be deadly. If that fails they he activates the multiple gun turrets and snakespine whips equiped with hull cutters on every segment. The troll in milspec ain't going to resist naval scale damage and the PCs aren't going to be able to steal giant cybernetic tentacles that are attached to the building.

Giant cybernetic tentacles.

Remind me not to attempt to breach your buildings...brrr...

And never, ever, suggest those things in the presence of my regular troll player...he might try and get them for his character.
Fygg Nuuton
QUOTE (mmu1)
3. An NPC being able to pull out the pin in the middle of the fight suggests one of two things: either incredible luck on his part, or the GM making it much too easy to do.

The NPC was a pickpocket, and the PCs knew this. It was a mistake to grapple with him, no matter how weak he is.
Konsaki
#1 - The Cha of 1 is the troll's damn fault, he could have upped it durring char gen. That being said, he should have a few bonus dice due to size over the person being intimidated, any street rep (good or bad), and any obvious cyberware as bonus dice. Now if he botched the roll, you can say that while he was trying to intimidate the guy, he sneezed, ruining the entire try.

#3 - Reading over it, you are not being a bad GM. You gave your NPCs some intelligence, played it how a weak pickpocket would do it (if cornered), and your PCs werent up to the task. Now I have to ask, did everyone run away from the Sam once they saw what was going on?

#4 - Was the safety thing to stop a hacker from jacking up thier guns or what?

#6 - There are many things a sec rig could do, you chose one of them and ran with it by playing your NPCs with some intelligence.

#7 - I agree. The high rank armor and other stuff shouldnt be as easy to buy as walking into a walmart.

Fygg Nuuton
I want to repeat this was a humor post. At no point did I think I was a bad GM for any of these reasons wink.gif

Also the safety was so that they couldnt be used against them. I play 3rd edition and thus guns cannot be hacked.
Cray74
QUOTE (Fygg Nuuton)
I want to repeat this was a humor post. At no point did I think I was a bad GM for any of these reasons wink.gif

Hey, I laughed and sent the list on to my gamers. I especially liked the grenade one. smile.gif
eidolon
OMG YOU ARE TEH BAD GM AND HERE's WHY!!!111

Good grief people. It was a joke.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Fygg Nuuton @ Sep 29 2006, 01:20 AM)
I want to repeat this was a humor post.  At no point did I think I was a bad GM for any of these reasons  wink.gif

I know you didn't think you were. The point is, you may have been regardless—like I said, from the information you'd given us, at least two of the calls seemed decidedly questionable (the grenade one you've cleared up since then, though). There have been too many "look how stupid my players are" stories that really are, no bones about it, just the GM being a dick, so I tend not to give posts like that the benefit of the doubt.

~J
Critias
Right, we get it, he posted it as a joke. However, he also posted it -- if he's gonna make a list of some shit he does as a GM, whether he means it in jest or not, if the list is legit, well, maybe people are gonna critique him a little.
eidolon
Yeah, I guess to me there's still a difference between sharing something light hearted with your fellow gamers and getting attacked for it, and submitting questions and asking for advice and receiving said advice.

DSers tend to blur the ever loving fuck out of the line in between.
lorechaser
I've been the player trying to make the "I should be intimidating, because I'm big, and scary, and have glowing flaming hands!" argument, and I knew I was wrong when I was making it. wink.gif That was in d20, where I at least had the benefit of "intimidate isn't a class skill, that's just dumb!".

In SR, you're just a big galoot that stands around ineffectually. Get over it, and spend the skill points, dummie.

Vheni4e
In the cases where the big scary troll fails his intimidate test there are about a billion possible reasons why. My favorite two:

"Tell me what I want to know or I'll... HAHAHAHAHAHA, oh man, I can't keep a straight face!"

Uncontrollable gas.
James McMurray
Big giant trolls probably have little concept of pain on a personal level. Those without social skills probably also have very little idea of what makes other people tick, so their threats are based on their own dislikes.

Troll: Tell me what I want to know or I'll make you eat spicy foods!
Interrogatee: Sweetness!
Fix-it
QUOTE

The ONLY reason mil-spec armor goes on sale is because it failed.


Er, We in the military surplus buisness prefer the term "Slightly Used."
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (eidolon)
Yeah, I guess to me there's still a difference between sharing something light hearted with your fellow gamers

A player once didn't tell me his character was putting clothes on before a run, so I had Lone Star arrest him for indecent exposure! Wasn't that player stupid?

Like I said, we've determined that (due to things that were left out of the original post) this particular thread wasn't a celebration of GM dickery, but most threads in this format are, and when a GM is being a dick (and if he or she is rewarded by a bunch of people laughing along with it all, it doesn't exactly discourage being a dick next time) it makes it less fun for the players. I don't really see making RPGs less fun for the players as light-hearted.

That said, now that we've figured out that it wasn't something our Mr. Nuuton was doing wrong, as such, we're left with something not terribly funny (character fails test, news at 11).

As for the intimidation thing, I'll say it again: big difference between intimidating someone and intimidating someone into doing what you want. If Mr. Three-Meter Troll wants information, he'd better have a skill; if he wants to get a relatively average person to quake in fear and react unpredictably due to panic, he probably doesn't need a skill.

~J
eidolon
Bah, everyone knows that trolls are just big sweet teddy bears.

Dwarves though, right sour bastards, the lot.
Kyoto Kid
...now, with the case of the street sam, Leela would have bypassed the pin trigger (leaving the pin appearing to be still intact) with a micro radio detonator coded to her Transceiver/Transducer patch.

(something she liked to do when she was back in Zagreb)

As she skates away...

[Serbian Regular] "Hah hah hah! How cute. Hey! Leetle Girl! You forgot to pull th-" *BOOM!*
Fygg Nuuton
Can you use a radio detonator on a grenade? If you can thats a pretty cool move, if a little expensive. (EDIT: Or you used a grenade of your own perhaps, which can be detonated like that, I was confused.)


Anyway, the only regret I have about the grenade thing is i forget that the thing whos name I forget pops off when the pin is removed, making it more obvious than I had them roll for. But noone had nay bad feelings, as it's just a game wink.gif
eidolon
Spoon!
Fygg Nuuton
QUOTE (eidolon)
Spoon!

Indeed.
eidolon
No, that's the name of the grenade part you're referring to.

(Well, okay, and it's a great line from The Tick. wink.gif).
Fygg Nuuton
biggrin.gif I'm aware, I just agreed with both uses. grinbig.gif

QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
As for the intimidation thing, I'll say it again: big difference between intimidating someone and intimidating someone into doing what you want. If Mr. Three-Meter Troll wants information, he'd better have a skill; if he wants to get a relatively average person to quake in fear and react unpredictably due to panic, he probably doesn't need a skill.


My point exactly. I never said people weren't scared, just that hes not good at getting what he wants by using it.
SL James
QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Sep 28 2006, 09:20 PM)
I'm also not entirely sure on your logic there, James—he failed to do it because the GM required a test, and nothing but circular logic will allow that failure to support requiring a test.

Wait. What?

I would have required a Perception and Quickness test no matter what. I fail to see where the confusion lies.
Kagetenshi
What you said:

QUOTE
Well, I'm going to have to take his word for it that in 5 seconds the sam somehow failed to do it, which reinforces my thinking that it should require a Quickness test to do.

The question was whether or not a test was appropriate. The sam only failed to get rid of the grenade in 5 seconds because a test was called for (regardless of the appropriateness of that test), since that's the only way he can fail at it. As a result, the only way that that can reinforce your thinking that it should require a Quickness test is circularly.

Out of interest, why would you require Quickness no matter what? Perhaps more to the point, do you require the same test for deliberate use of a grenade in such situations, and if not what do you feel is different?

~J
krayola red
Edit: Nevermind. wink.gif
Fygg Nuuton
QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Sep 29 2006, 03:06 PM)
Out of interest, why would you require Quickness no matter what? Perhaps more to the point, do you require the same test for deliberate use of a grenade in such situations, and if not what do you feel is different?

Usually you take the grenade in your hand, pull the pin and throw, it not being armed until it leaves your hand.

This was armed before if left the vest, less time and a slight panic.

So yes, if you normally throw grenades by having your teamate randomly pick a pin and pull it while you close your eyes, then try and pick the one that is armed, I would require a test.
SL James
QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Sep 29 2006, 04:06 PM)
Out of interest, why would you require Quickness no matter what? Perhaps more to the point, do you require the same test for deliberate use of a grenade in such situations, and if not what do you feel is different?

My basic rule is: Anything that can kill someone requires a test. I'm not sure about what you mean by "deliberate," but if it means pulling one's pin off a grenade on themself, then yes, I would. If the Rule of One for throwing a grenade is "throw the pin, keep the grenade" then the Rule of One for throwing a pin would be the opposite.

If it ever came up, I'd probably do the same thing for suicides just based on the principle that I've had characters shot in the head and live (though they usually are trying NOT to die).
Wounded Ronin
I've been told by a player once that as a GM I was playing "against" the players rather than trying to let them have fun. It was a poigant moment.
Kagetenshi
I roleplay in a strict Victorian style. If anyone is having fun, including me, it is clearly a sin.

~J
fistandantilus4.0
that's the spirit!
lorechaser
Victorian Morals need to be applied to more parts of life, I think.

I never did play in the WoD during the Victorian age, but I was really looking forward to it.
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
I roleplay in a strict Victorian style. If anyone is having fun, including me, it is clearly a sin.

~J

That's hardcore awesome. Does it mean that the female players need to visit you after the game for their salutory convulsions?
Fygg Nuuton
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
I roleplay in a strict Victorian style. If anyone is having fun, including me, it is clearly a sin.

rotfl.gif

No words can describe it.
dabigz732
On Saturday Afternoon I took me 3rd edition SR group through a portal created by Fuji and dropped them in Mega-City 1. Faced by sadistic over empowered law enforcement teams they were forced to break into the museum of justice and hold off Joe something or other while they got the backup portal working. One guy who CLEARLY needs to read more comics tried to use a dropped lawgiver.

Sunday afternoon my D20 Judge Dredd group played... and went through the portal into Fuji's top secret research lab guarded by heavily cybered samurai and mages. The one guy in both groups required free pizza both days to shut up.

Other great moments in gaming.

Our street samurai peeks around the corner and gets hit by a panther AC. Only his head was exposed. My rigger used a mirror on a stick. Waddya know a big chrome human with a panther.

Mage astrally perceives, comes back, says "screw this" puts his hands up to surrender and gets tagged. Nothing like knowing that you are boned both physically and magically.

MY mage astrally perceives and sees that the opposition has very little magical support but a LOT of grunts, comes back "good news, I can get out of here... bad news, your HOSED" and goes invisible

Party is looking for dirt on a (male) politician and goes through their contacts. Everyone has a joygirl. No dice. The dwarf mage is fuming "What kind of world are we living in when decent god fearing politicians dont have a running date with a joygirl!" At which point the female in the group got a callback from her joyboy friend.

Party is taking down a terrorist ring. Hijacks a panel van with tinted windows. Rigger and Weapons guy in front. He unlocks the rear doors so the rest of the guys can pile in. They call back "Before or after we unlead the big bomb"

Shrike30
One evening, my group snuck to the bottom of a silver mine out near Cle Elum guarded by NAN troops (on the surface, not in the mine itself) to secure an item before it could be smuggled into Seattle. They seemed blissfully unaware of the hazmat teams and the massive biowarfare sensor rigs that I described as being strung all over the area, and went to the bottom of the mine.

They were mildly disturbed to find that the item they were attempting to secure was a container of Doom (from Shadowtech). They were annoyed to find that the incredibly dangerous bioweapon they were stealing was being kept in a concrete canister that weighed upwards of 500 kg.
knasser

This was ages ago from the first Shadowrun game I ran, but it was a nice moment:

Team rampaging though a corporate building pursued by irate security teams. Troll gets the bright idea that he can smash through the internal walls of the building to escape. Well with some good rolls I let him. The team burst through the "instant doorway" guns at the ready into the middle of a lab. Containing lots of technicians. Who are all wearing sealed chemical gear. One of which silently and slowly points at a large biohazard symbol on the wall.

It was a great "Ooops" moment. biggrin.gif
fistandantilus4.0
As long as the lab was already there on the map, that's hilarious.
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