*nods* ok, then, so something like the Zentradei Quadrono suits, or even oversized BGC Hardsuits?
Hrm. A 'small anthroform' version would be interesting, for REALLY stealthy milspec stealth armor.
Full Version: Possible Power Armour
I guess it depends on the relative size.
Pilot systems could be either joystick or rigger-interface or even an external trode suit.
-Siege
Pilot systems could be either joystick or rigger-interface or even an external trode suit.
-Siege
Note that my prior post was addressed at BitBasher, not at you, ialdabaoth. You posted while I was typing mine up. But, yeah, these are intended to be powered hardsuits, not full-up mecha. They're, at most, 75% of the size of a Battletech Elemental suit (at least by mass... I assume that the densities are similar).
You can't really make a smaller one with Rigger 3 rules. It's not possible to cram a metahuman into the medium anthroform chassis... its max CF rating is just too low. You could, I suppose, use a large anthroform and not max the available CF, but they really need those CF to be effective... with an operator and a decent sensor suite, you've used up 80% of its max already. Not using all possible CF doesn't actually do anything for your stealthiness rules-wise, anyway. The other solution, of course, is to not put a human in and just drone-rig them, but that has problems of its own in an EW-active environment.
My Spartan suits are rigger-interface only... the original chassis has no manual controls, and I'm not assuming that just adding an occupant added them (and if it did, I'm ripping the fragging things out, because I could use the extra 2 CF that would get me).
You can't really make a smaller one with Rigger 3 rules. It's not possible to cram a metahuman into the medium anthroform chassis... its max CF rating is just too low. You could, I suppose, use a large anthroform and not max the available CF, but they really need those CF to be effective... with an operator and a decent sensor suite, you've used up 80% of its max already. Not using all possible CF doesn't actually do anything for your stealthiness rules-wise, anyway. The other solution, of course, is to not put a human in and just drone-rig them, but that has problems of its own in an EW-active environment.
My Spartan suits are rigger-interface only... the original chassis has no manual controls, and I'm not assuming that just adding an occupant added them (and if it did, I'm ripping the fragging things out, because I could use the extra 2 CF that would get me).
Heh. Noted.
I would think that a medium anthroform could work, if you tore a lot of stuff out (say, the remote control gear, and maybe went with a smaller power supply).
I would think that a medium anthroform could work, if you tore a lot of stuff out (say, the remote control gear, and maybe went with a smaller power supply).
Question: What's the mass of this thing?
Can't determine the exact mass... R3 provides Load ratings, but doesn't account for the mass of the actual vehicle chassis and power plant and so on. The upper limit given for Body 3 vehicles is 750kg, though, which is where I got the cap of 75% of an Elemental's mass. These have their Load ratings maxed, for EFC vehicles, but could go up to 100kg higher if I switched them to diesel, so I'm figuring about 650kg for the EFC heavy anthroform at maximum Load (plus or minus the differences in plant weights and so on... I'm approximating here). Subtract the unused portion of their Load ratings, and we get about 500 - 630kg for the Spartans, depending on the model and the ammo loadout (the fire support suit's barely over half a ton empty, but could be carrying over a hundred kilos of mortar shells). Fully loaded, it's about 560kg for the Scout, 610kg for the standard suit, 615kg for the fire support suit, and 630kg for the command suit. That includes the mass of the operator.
http://www.trooperpx.com/AFS/AFS24.html
http://www.trooperpx.com/AFS/AFS12.html
http://misterhook.tripod.com/roughnecks/sites.htm
http://misterhook.tripod.com/roughnecks/guide.htm#fg21
A whopping 9cf...that's...that's... that's a whole 1.125 cubic meters. LOL Not really all that big when you think of it.
The real shame is that all through out the different editions of the rigger book they've NEVER ADDED THE DAMN WEIGHTS. It'd be nice to know if you could hook a Vectored Thrust UAV and use it like a set of jump jets. What's the total load a BOD 3 walker without a person?
http://www.trooperpx.com/AFS/AFS12.html
http://misterhook.tripod.com/roughnecks/sites.htm
http://misterhook.tripod.com/roughnecks/guide.htm#fg21
A whopping 9cf...that's...that's... that's a whole 1.125 cubic meters. LOL Not really all that big when you think of it.
The real shame is that all through out the different editions of the rigger book they've NEVER ADDED THE DAMN WEIGHTS. It'd be nice to know if you could hook a Vectored Thrust UAV and use it like a set of jump jets. What's the total load a BOD 3 walker without a person?
Actually, Laughlyn, I thought up of a variation of the Hard Suit on Jump Jet, but this *again* requires a GM call, and I never deemed my hard suits anywhere close to being efficient. Hence, I never really went on to the "proof-of-concept" stage, but feel free to try.
Essentially, the Jump Jet is really a Vector Thrust drone with Special Equipment that allows it to carry the Hard Suit. That's it. The load ratings on a Vector Thrust Drone should be just sufficient to take a two-ton monster on a spin.
Now, I used to think that controlling it was a problem, until Hero pointed out the neat-o fact that it was possible to make it a robot with a really high pilot rating, and it pretty much runs itself.
Essentially, the Jump Jet is really a Vector Thrust drone with Special Equipment that allows it to carry the Hard Suit. That's it. The load ratings on a Vector Thrust Drone should be just sufficient to take a two-ton monster on a spin.
Now, I used to think that controlling it was a problem, until Hero pointed out the neat-o fact that it was possible to make it a robot with a really high pilot rating, and it pretty much runs itself.
I wasn't thinking of huge Vectored Thrust UAV. I thinking of one of the smaller ones. That way it's a suit of power armor with some jump jets. Not a T-Bird with legs. Looking at the typical load raiting of the powerplant for a Vectored Thrust UAV, could it carry the armor without putting stress on the engines (ie stress points). To add to that, could the armor handle the weight of the Vectored thurst engine? Realistially you could probably cut 25-35% of the weight you'd assign to a Vectored Thrust UAV off because there's no need to duplicate the structure of two vehicles into each other. Provided you design the vectored thrust power plant into the armor.
Forgot something.
My thoughts on this is that I'd want armor to be considered to a vehicle. That way it's tougher than just regular armor. For that matter it also makes it's own body rolls.
My thoughts on this is that I'd want armor to be considered to a vehicle. That way it's tougher than just regular armor. For that matter it also makes it's own body rolls.
| QUOTE (John Campbell) |
| Can't determine the exact mass...[snip] ... I'm approximating here). Subtract the unused portion of their Load ratings, and we get about 500 - 630kg for the Spartans, depending on the model and the ammo loadout (the fire support suit's barely over half a ton empty, but could be carrying over a hundred kilos of mortar shells). Fully loaded, it's about 560kg for the Scout, 610kg for the standard suit, 615kg for the fire support suit, and 630kg for the command suit. That includes the mass of the operator. |
That's doable for most tasks, but still means houseclearing remains a job for soft-skinned infantry, I'd say. I doubt many residential buildings can handle the kind of ground pressure one of these puppies has.
| QUOTE (John Campbell) |
| Okay, I think I've finally managed to do this without too badly bending too many rules. The resulting description and specs are, uh, long, so I'll just link to them on my site rather than posting pages and pages of stuff here. Ares Spartan Combat Suit |
Dude, those're some pretty sweet suits you've designed! Reading through the descriptions made me think back to the power suits from Captain Powers! Tank = Combat Suit, Powers= Command Suit, Scout (I think that was his name) = Scout Suit, Pilot . . .hmmm a flying suit of some type? . . .Anyways, good job! I think I'm thinking of an adventure for my SR group now. . .hehehe
Unless you can develop a light-weight exo-skeleton.
Given the synthetic muscle fiber that exists for SR, it's reasonably doable.
A marginal strength increase for humping heavy armor suits (Hardened military armor) and slightly larger weapons.
-Siege
Given the synthetic muscle fiber that exists for SR, it's reasonably doable.
A marginal strength increase for humping heavy armor suits (Hardened military armor) and slightly larger weapons.
-Siege
| QUOTE (Atrox) |
| That's doable for most tasks, but still means houseclearing remains a job for soft-skinned infantry, I'd say. I doubt many residential buildings can handle the kind of ground pressure one of these puppies has. |
I was trying to figure out whether that would be reasonable, but solid numbers have eluded me. The Spartans are obviously pretty heavy, but residential floors do support things like grand pianos and full bathtubs - and in Shadowrun, trolls - which aren't light, either. The only number I've been able to come up with for load rating for residential floors is 40 pounds per square foot, though, which is obviously wrong, unless it doesn't mean what I think it means. My personal ground footprint is a bit less than a square foot, and I weigh rather more than 40 pounds, and I haven't fallen through a floor yet...
So I'm leaving that in the inconclusive category until I see better numbers. It might be doable, especially if you don't care about collateral damage to the building, but it might not. They should be fine in most commercial or industrial buildings, at any rate.
| QUOTE (Laughlyn) |
| My thoughts on this is that I'd want armor to be considered to a vehicle. That way it's tougher than just regular armor. For that matter it also makes it's own body rolls. |
It also means that you can't target it with mana spells at all, can only target the armor, not the occupant, with physical spells (and it's highly resistant to them, almost to the point of being immune), and have to get through the armor first even with elemental manipulations (and it's pretty resistant to most of those, too).
| QUOTE |
| It also means that you can't target it with mana spells at all, can only target the armor, not the occupant, with physical spells (and it's highly resistant to them, almost to the point of being immune), and have to get through the armor first even with elemental manipulations (and it's pretty resistant to most of those, too). |
Except lightning...
Yeah, that's the reason I said "most". That there's one of the unavoidable drawbacks of having your armor plugged into your brain.
Indeed. One wonders why you can't just cover the entire outside armor shell in some sort of highly conductive film.
I dare you to get in one of those suits and kick me. Really. Go ahead.
| QUOTE (John Campbell) |
| My personal ground footprint is a bit less than a square foot, and I weigh rather more than 40 pounds, and I haven't fallen through a floor yet... |
You know on looney toons, where bugs bunny will say
"You say this violates the law of gravity - well, I'll have you know that I never studied law!"
Now that you've learned that floors can't support your weight - expect to go crashing through floors all the time now!
I don't think it's strictly worked on pounds per area of your feet. Sit on a chair with small legs (less that 1/2 a square inch) and your feet not touching the ground. In my case that means over 100 pounds per square inch. (you don't get to know exactly how much over 100 pounds per square inch tho 
)
I'd expect the suits to be almost completely resistant to lightning as they are surrounded by a faraday cage.
)I'd expect the suits to be almost completely resistant to lightning as they are surrounded by a faraday cage.
I like the idea of another drone carrying the powersuits.
Delving into the rules in rigger 3 (not done much vehicle design before) we find Vectored Thrust UAVs which can carry up-to 1000KG and by the body rating-to-weight ratio of page 62 of R3 we can see that, by the rules abstractions made in SR, our large anthroforms can weigh at-most 750KG. Do you think that it would be possible to create an Eagle drone for areal insertions that straps the Spartan suit in using a drone rack? Just an idea.
Delving into the rules in rigger 3 (not done much vehicle design before) we find Vectored Thrust UAVs which can carry up-to 1000KG and by the body rating-to-weight ratio of page 62 of R3 we can see that, by the rules abstractions made in SR, our large anthroforms can weigh at-most 750KG. Do you think that it would be possible to create an Eagle drone for areal insertions that straps the Spartan suit in using a drone rack? Just an idea.
For mine I decided to take off all but the most important stuff, like the sensors, hard points, and external ammo bins. While the rest was put on a list of accessories specifically made for the "Power Armor". I have made a special flight pack for the armor, it come in two forms the Mk. I and the Mk. Id, the Mk. I is the normal version while the Mk. Id is equipped with a rating 4 electronic deception unit. I have gone through it to make sure I did nothing wrong in the calculations and founds that reduced the some stats so I made some changes to correct those, here is my unit.
HAA-3 Mk. III Powered Armor
Hand: 3
Speed: 57
accel: -
Armor: 6
Sig: 5
Auto: 4
Pilot: 5
Sensor: 4
CF: 0
Load: 395
Seat: 1
Entry: 1b
Fuel: 120PF
Econ: 1.5
Chassis: Large anthro
SI: *
Avail: *
Cost: 416,400
*GM discretion
::Control::
-> There is a special drone computer that takes over much of the target tracking and control, it also is can take control of the vehicle when the pilot is not actively piloting or is incapacitated. The drone computer takes over all of the primary functions of tracking and firing at the target, the pilot only must make a gunnery test, and has a Sharpshooter 6 program installed. The advanced software package includes Robotic Reflexes 3, Robotic-Pilot Advanced programming, Fuzzy Logic 5, Improved Neural Network Algrorithms 5. Treated as a robot with adaptation pool 10 (+10 to adaptation pool to comprehension test), when not controlled by a pilot.
-> Rigger Adaptation
::Protective::
Enviro
-> Seal Gas/Over-pressurized
::Weapons::
-> 2x Fixed Mounts (one located on each outer forearm, with 1CF ammo bin under the forearm)
::Electronics::
-> ECM/ECCM (mounted on back section in container pods)
::Accessories::
-> 2x Mechanical Arms (Strength 9)
-> Spot Lights
Additions
Dragon™ Mk. I Jump Jets
Cost:30,900Y; Avail: 10/2 months; Weight: 250; SI: 4; Legality: Legal
Dragon™ Mk. Id Jump Jets
Cost: 105,900; Avail: 16/2 months; Weight: 295; SI: 4; Legality: 4P-W
*Typhoon™ Life Support
Cost: 3,400; Avail: 8/14 days; Weight: 50; SI: 2.5; Legality: Legal
Titan™ Gyro System
Cost: 4,000; Avail: 6/48hrs; Weight: x; SI: 1.5; Legality: 4P-W
SL I Interface
Cost: 650; Avail: 4/48 hrs; Weight: x; SI: 1; Legality: 5P-W
SL II Interface
Cost: 900; Avail: 6/48 hrs; Weight: x; SI: 2; Legality: 5P-W
*Ghost™ ECM Pod
Cost: ;50,500 Avail: 8/21 days; Weight: 20; SI: 4; Legality: 4P-W
*Ghost™ ECCM Pod
Cost: 40,500; Avail: 6/21 days; Weight: 12; SI: 3.5; Legality: Legal
BattleTac FDDM
Cost: 35,000; Avail: 10/21 days; Weight: x; SI: 3; Legality: 4P-W
BattleTac IVIS
Cost: 25,000; Avail: 8/14 days; Weight: x; SI: 3; Legality: 4P-W
Autosoft Accel™ Interface
Cost: 5,000; Avail: 8/14 days; Weight: x; SI: 2; Legality: Legal
5,000 8/14 days
HyperTask™ Robot System
Cost: 10,000; Avail: 8/14 days; Weight: x; SI: 3; Legality: 4P-W
Fire Support™ Software
Cost: 75,000; Avail: 6/14 days; Weight: x; SI: 2; Legality: 6P-s
Recon Support™ Software
Cost: 62,500; Avail: 6/14 days; Weight: x; SI: 2; Legality: Legal
Assault Support™ Software
Cost: 75,000; Avail: 6/14days; Weight: x; SI: 2; Legality: 6P-S
* = (contained in special armored pod, has same armor value as vehicle)
Special
Dragon™ Jump Jets
the Dragon™ has the following profile
Hand: 3
Speed: 120
Accel: 12
Body: 3
Armor: 6
Sig: 5
CF: -
Load: Special*
Fuel: Jet 180l
Econ: .4km/L
T/L: vtol
*The Flight Pack has enough lift to ge the Power Armor into the air and anything the power armor is equipped with it.
Dragon™ Deception Flight Pack is the same as the Dragon™ Flight Pack with a ED 4 system
Protection
Typhoon™ Life Support Module counts as a 24hr life support unit in an armored storage modular with an armor rating of 6
Weapons
Titan™ Gyro System counts as a rating 4 recoil adjuster
Smartlink I/II interface adds smart link bonuses of appropriate level
Electronics
HyperTask™ Robotic System Firmware is a rating 10 multi-object manipulation program that provides +10 dice to any IVIS pool, must have BattleTac IVIS module
Ghost™ ECM Module counts as a rating 4 ECM in an armored storage modular with an armor rating of 6
Ghost™ ECCM Module counts as a rating 4 ECCM in an armored storage modular with an armor rating of 6
Autosoft Accel™ Interface is a rating 5 Autosoft Interpretation system with two chip slots. System supports the Support™ Autosoft Package. See below
Support™ Autosofts come in three models Fire, Recon, and Assualt
Fire Support™ - - - - - - - - - Counts as Sharpshooter and Clear Sight Autosofts each at rating 5
Recon Support™ - - - - - - - Counts as Performance and Clear Sight Autosofts each at rating 5
Assault Support™ - - - - - - Counts as Performance and Sharpshooter Autosofts each at rating 5
HAA-3 Mk. III Powered Armor
Hand: 3
Speed: 57
accel: -
Armor: 6
Sig: 5
Auto: 4
Pilot: 5
Sensor: 4
CF: 0
Load: 395
Seat: 1
Entry: 1b
Fuel: 120PF
Econ: 1.5
Chassis: Large anthro
SI: *
Avail: *
Cost: 416,400
*GM discretion
::Control::
-> There is a special drone computer that takes over much of the target tracking and control, it also is can take control of the vehicle when the pilot is not actively piloting or is incapacitated. The drone computer takes over all of the primary functions of tracking and firing at the target, the pilot only must make a gunnery test, and has a Sharpshooter 6 program installed. The advanced software package includes Robotic Reflexes 3, Robotic-Pilot Advanced programming, Fuzzy Logic 5, Improved Neural Network Algrorithms 5. Treated as a robot with adaptation pool 10 (+10 to adaptation pool to comprehension test), when not controlled by a pilot.
-> Rigger Adaptation
::Protective::
Enviro
-> Seal Gas/Over-pressurized
::Weapons::
-> 2x Fixed Mounts (one located on each outer forearm, with 1CF ammo bin under the forearm)
::Electronics::
-> ECM/ECCM (mounted on back section in container pods)
::Accessories::
-> 2x Mechanical Arms (Strength 9)
-> Spot Lights
Additions
Dragon™ Mk. I Jump Jets
Cost:30,900Y; Avail: 10/2 months; Weight: 250; SI: 4; Legality: Legal
Dragon™ Mk. Id Jump Jets
Cost: 105,900; Avail: 16/2 months; Weight: 295; SI: 4; Legality: 4P-W
*Typhoon™ Life Support
Cost: 3,400; Avail: 8/14 days; Weight: 50; SI: 2.5; Legality: Legal
Titan™ Gyro System
Cost: 4,000; Avail: 6/48hrs; Weight: x; SI: 1.5; Legality: 4P-W
SL I Interface
Cost: 650; Avail: 4/48 hrs; Weight: x; SI: 1; Legality: 5P-W
SL II Interface
Cost: 900; Avail: 6/48 hrs; Weight: x; SI: 2; Legality: 5P-W
*Ghost™ ECM Pod
Cost: ;50,500 Avail: 8/21 days; Weight: 20; SI: 4; Legality: 4P-W
*Ghost™ ECCM Pod
Cost: 40,500; Avail: 6/21 days; Weight: 12; SI: 3.5; Legality: Legal
BattleTac FDDM
Cost: 35,000; Avail: 10/21 days; Weight: x; SI: 3; Legality: 4P-W
BattleTac IVIS
Cost: 25,000; Avail: 8/14 days; Weight: x; SI: 3; Legality: 4P-W
Autosoft Accel™ Interface
Cost: 5,000; Avail: 8/14 days; Weight: x; SI: 2; Legality: Legal
5,000 8/14 days
HyperTask™ Robot System
Cost: 10,000; Avail: 8/14 days; Weight: x; SI: 3; Legality: 4P-W
Fire Support™ Software
Cost: 75,000; Avail: 6/14 days; Weight: x; SI: 2; Legality: 6P-s
Recon Support™ Software
Cost: 62,500; Avail: 6/14 days; Weight: x; SI: 2; Legality: Legal
Assault Support™ Software
Cost: 75,000; Avail: 6/14days; Weight: x; SI: 2; Legality: 6P-S
* = (contained in special armored pod, has same armor value as vehicle)
Special
Dragon™ Jump Jets
the Dragon™ has the following profile
Hand: 3
Speed: 120
Accel: 12
Body: 3
Armor: 6
Sig: 5
CF: -
Load: Special*
Fuel: Jet 180l
Econ: .4km/L
T/L: vtol
*The Flight Pack has enough lift to ge the Power Armor into the air and anything the power armor is equipped with it.
Dragon™ Deception Flight Pack is the same as the Dragon™ Flight Pack with a ED 4 system
Protection
Typhoon™ Life Support Module counts as a 24hr life support unit in an armored storage modular with an armor rating of 6
Weapons
Titan™ Gyro System counts as a rating 4 recoil adjuster
Smartlink I/II interface adds smart link bonuses of appropriate level
Electronics
HyperTask™ Robotic System Firmware is a rating 10 multi-object manipulation program that provides +10 dice to any IVIS pool, must have BattleTac IVIS module
Ghost™ ECM Module counts as a rating 4 ECM in an armored storage modular with an armor rating of 6
Ghost™ ECCM Module counts as a rating 4 ECCM in an armored storage modular with an armor rating of 6
Autosoft Accel™ Interface is a rating 5 Autosoft Interpretation system with two chip slots. System supports the Support™ Autosoft Package. See below
Support™ Autosofts come in three models Fire, Recon, and Assualt
Fire Support™ - - - - - - - - - Counts as Sharpshooter and Clear Sight Autosofts each at rating 5
Recon Support™ - - - - - - - Counts as Performance and Clear Sight Autosofts each at rating 5
Assault Support™ - - - - - - Counts as Performance and Sharpshooter Autosofts each at rating 5
| QUOTE (KarmaInferno) |
| I dare you to get in one of those suits and kick me. Really. Go ahead. |
Well, why not? As long as we're probably going to be including a new "Powered Armor" vehicle skill, we might as well put in a "Powered Armor Melee" skill. Hmmm... would it be based on Intelligence, as Gunnery currently is?
I thought there was already a 'Walker' skill, and a 'Mechanical Arms' skill? I figured those would be used in these situations.
For Size i would be putting it about "landmate" sized (a lord torgo sized troll in milli grade armour)
Also i maybe mistaken (or it could already be considered) but can't reduce the CF pilot space takes by making it "uncomforatable and dangerous"? i mean in ject with a muscle relaxent, put in fetal postion in suit, since your going to be rigging it any way. auto injectors to remove that effects of the relaxent.
just other ideas, being a anime, CP2020, battletech fan. but even at the weigh mentioned ground presure would be an issue.
Also i maybe mistaken (or it could already be considered) but can't reduce the CF pilot space takes by making it "uncomforatable and dangerous"? i mean in ject with a muscle relaxent, put in fetal postion in suit, since your going to be rigging it any way. auto injectors to remove that effects of the relaxent.
just other ideas, being a anime, CP2020, battletech fan. but even at the weigh mentioned ground presure would be an issue.
If you're going to go the muscle relaxant route, you might as well just drop in a brain pod and be done with it.
-Siege
-Siege
For that matter, do dwarf-sized seats take up less CF?
Well that would be getting into Cybermancy for u. and rigger and that don't mix that well.
| QUOTE (ialdabaoth) |
| For that matter, do dwarf-sized seats take up less CF? |
If not, they certainly should.
OK: for the weight of a large anthroform (like the spartan).
Assume that it starts-off as the lowest possible weight for a body 3 vehicle (300kg), it's probably safe to use the minimum base as this is a military-spec craft. Then reduce the weight by 15% as it uses smart materials (down to 255kg).
Secondly: Factor in the weight of all of the mods that reduce load. This has a maximum of 575kg, John Campbell could possibly tell us what the loads are for each suit, but from the remaining load on the stats on his site we can tell that none use more than 554 KGs.
Now we have the formula for the weight: 255 + 554 = 809kg
Now, taking an EFC Vectored Thrust large UAV with smart materials, it has a maximum load of 1150. Assuming it must carry the Spartan; it has 341 load remaining. Now:
45kg load for a drone rack
10kg load for rigger adaptation
225kg load for 5 points of armour
35-12kg load to upgrade sensors from 1 to 4
I think that's most of the big expendatures. There is still 7CF and 38kg load left for things like ECM and ECCM. Pehaps add an external missile mount to aid in hot drops and fire support?
Some external missile mounts might work on the spartan combat suits themselves, Especially the fire support and standard suits which still have good load ratings remaining.
Assume that it starts-off as the lowest possible weight for a body 3 vehicle (300kg), it's probably safe to use the minimum base as this is a military-spec craft. Then reduce the weight by 15% as it uses smart materials (down to 255kg).
Secondly: Factor in the weight of all of the mods that reduce load. This has a maximum of 575kg, John Campbell could possibly tell us what the loads are for each suit, but from the remaining load on the stats on his site we can tell that none use more than 554 KGs.
Now we have the formula for the weight: 255 + 554 = 809kg
Now, taking an EFC Vectored Thrust large UAV with smart materials, it has a maximum load of 1150. Assuming it must carry the Spartan; it has 341 load remaining. Now:
45kg load for a drone rack
10kg load for rigger adaptation
225kg load for 5 points of armour
35-12kg load to upgrade sensors from 1 to 4
I think that's most of the big expendatures. There is still 7CF and 38kg load left for things like ECM and ECCM. Pehaps add an external missile mount to aid in hot drops and fire support?
Some external missile mounts might work on the spartan combat suits themselves, Especially the fire support and standard suits which still have good load ratings remaining.
| QUOTE (Shockwave_IIc) |
| Well that would be getting into Cybermancy for u. and rigger and that don't mix that well. |
Chop arms and legs and you've got a marginally larger brain pod.
Your bio-support system would have to include waste reclamation, but the escape pod could include a drone system.
Of course that rigger control would have to be total immersion.
-Siege
Why stop at arms and legs? A person can survive reasonably well with only the upper half of their torso; the pelvis and colon are fundamentally superfluous.
Erm folks this is getting a tad sick
Oh for those that wanted the weight, look on page 62 of Rigger 3 for weight to body table, has all the information needed.
Another idea for the 'mobile weapons platform' is to get a pair of cyberlegs and a pair of articulated guns. I'm still not very sure how the rules work for those things -erm, at all- but having pistol-waving-tentacles attached to your legs seems pretty spooky. And using skillwires to run them just makes my head hurt (how the rules would work for that situation)
Couldn't you 'rope' those through the legs of the anthroform, and have them peek out? Then you wouldn't have to worry about including them on the power armor.
Couldn't you 'rope' those through the legs of the anthroform, and have them peek out? Then you wouldn't have to worry about including them on the power armor.
| QUOTE (Siege @ Oct 29 2003, 02:04 PM) |
| If you're going to go the muscle relaxant route, you might as well just drop in a brain pod and be done with it. -Siege |
You just jogged my memory on something from Warhammer 40k, the Space Marine Dreadnought. A Space Marine Dreadnaught is a large walker with the mangeled remains of a still living space marine interned inside it as a pilot to keep those Space Marine of great value in the chapter longer. Usually space marines are put down when they are wounded to such a point where they can no longer function normal, even with a full body replacement. But some are of great experience and would be a great loss to the chapter so they intern the wounded space marine in the Dreadnaught and wire him directly to controls. A Space marine Dreadnaught is a basically a walking tank that has modular arms that can either have claws or weapon pods varying from Twin-linked Las Cannon, Twin-linked Autocannon, Rotory Assault Cannon, Multi-Melta and what not.
I do need to make the vehicle stats for the Dreadnaughts for my Warhammer 40k setting. What the hell, now that we started with large man-piloted anthro forms, why not make combat walkers.
Well, since the panther assault cannon seems to be awfully similar to a boltgun, then I'd say that the Dreadnaughts armor would be such that you can injure the back of it with a lucky shot (since you can glance the rear armor with a boltgun)
I think that this would be more of a useful alternative to cybermancy. In-order to pilot one of these; a character need only have a datajack, a head, and a torso (and probably a VCR to be the captain). Neither the head nor the torso need to be cybernetic, and you don't need to install cyberarms or legs, so there is no need for cybermancy.
On an interesting note, it would theoretically be possible to quicken some spells on a head and make it somewhat self-sufficient (Oxygenate, Bloodflow, and Nutrition (sustained version))... Just a thought.
[edit]made some stuff make sense[/edit]
On an interesting note, it would theoretically be possible to quicken some spells on a head and make it somewhat self-sufficient (Oxygenate, Bloodflow, and Nutrition (sustained version))... Just a thought.
[edit]made some stuff make sense[/edit]
just buy a JIM and a Mil Hardened armor and stick it on the JIM , upgrade the JIM servos to stand the mass augmentation , Voila...
I decided to design the SK Dragoon series as a tutorial to myself in vehicle design. I'm gonna (sort-of) break the rules once by having a set of ballast tanks (which I think can normally only be added in vehicle design) in an external cargo pod.
One question: What ways are there to improve signature? ECM can do it but it dosen't alter the base rating AFAIK. The only way I can see of realistically getting signature to high levels is by spending the rating^4*200 bp for increaced signature at the design stage which costs a lot for anything more than a single point.
Also: I'm trying to create MechaNinja, the won-ton master of stealth. How much would it be to coat a large anthroform in ruthenium?
One question: What ways are there to improve signature? ECM can do it but it dosen't alter the base rating AFAIK. The only way I can see of realistically getting signature to high levels is by spending the rating^4*200 bp for increaced signature at the design stage which costs a lot for anything more than a single point.
Also: I'm trying to create MechaNinja, the won-ton master of stealth. How much would it be to coat a large anthroform in ruthenium?
| QUOTE (Random Guard) |
| Nobody heard or saw anything! The only signs of it passing were the holes it left where it fell down through three floors into the basement. |
| QUOTE (Lilt @ Oct 30 2003, 01:09 PM) |
| Also: I'm trying to create MechaNinja, the won-ton master of stealth. How much would it be to coat a large anthroform in ruthenium? |
Perhaps it would be a good idea to dikote it (maybe with orichalcum) .......
LOL. I'm tempted to stick a bench seat in instead of the dumbass bucket seat. At-least that way my walker can carry 2 people. Maybe even install a few at design (150kg), then remove them afterwards and get 200kg back each. Then I could replace them with a single bench seat during customization which weighs less than the ones you'd install at the design phase.
Anyway: What do people think of the idea of installing a 1/2 bench seat at 3CF/100kgs load?
Anyway: What do people think of the idea of installing a 1/2 bench seat at 3CF/100kgs load?
Well, a bench seat holds 1.5 people, so a half bench would hold .75 people, great for double amputees!
Remember, the key term is always "Comfortably." Who says you can't fit three on a bench seat? Ever see a bunch of college kids cram six or seven people in to a compact car? It's quite entertaining what they can whip up. ;p
"OK, now you sit here, you here, and you here. Now, you lay on their laps. Comfy? Good. Now you lay on the floor! Don't worry, I cleaned it two weeks ago!"
"OK, now you sit here, you here, and you here. Now, you lay on their laps. Comfy? Good. Now you lay on the floor! Don't worry, I cleaned it two weeks ago!"
Heh. Still, 3CF for a dwarf or child-sized seat sounds about right. Will that fit in a medium anthroform?
Sadly, no. A medium anthroform can only carry 1.6CF... IE: Not much.
Anyway. I'm going for a 3CF 1/2 bench seat which should be fine for a single human who's not miffed about the lack of swivel controls. The meatbod will probably be mostly strapped-up anyway while the character is rigging the suit.
Another few questions:
What is the chance that with one of these walkers, the pilot could perform one task (targeting for a FDDM system) while the human pilot engages a target using the weapon's main gun?
Can a craft fire missiles/rockets without a launch control system?
When a mod says that it takes 1 firmpoint (such as a micro turret or launch control system) does that mean you have to install a firearm conversion kit for the firm-point or do you just count it against the vehicle's limit?
I might have some more...
Anyway. I'm going for a 3CF 1/2 bench seat which should be fine for a single human who's not miffed about the lack of swivel controls. The meatbod will probably be mostly strapped-up anyway while the character is rigging the suit.
Another few questions:
What is the chance that with one of these walkers, the pilot could perform one task (targeting for a FDDM system) while the human pilot engages a target using the weapon's main gun?
Can a craft fire missiles/rockets without a launch control system?
When a mod says that it takes 1 firmpoint (such as a micro turret or launch control system) does that mean you have to install a firearm conversion kit for the firm-point or do you just count it against the vehicle's limit?
I might have some more...
I said I might have more:
If our drone had an amphibeous operation package; would it float or just walk allong the bottom?
If our drone had an amphibeous operation package; would it float or just walk allong the bottom?
Remember, you're talking about power armor, not walking mecha. There's no need to fit bench or bucket seats in it - you're supposed to wear the thing, not pilot it. I don't even think using vehicle control rigs would be appropriate for power armor, since it's more of a suit than a vehicle.
If you really want to create power armor using Shadowrun's vehicle rules, it will work better if you create your own components for it, rather than adapting the existing ones (which don't fit the concept very well).
If you really want to create power armor using Shadowrun's vehicle rules, it will work better if you create your own components for it, rather than adapting the existing ones (which don't fit the concept very well).
Yes, But it's fun. Anyway: I have the SK Dragoon scout sketched-up so I may as well post it.
SK Dragoon Scout
Hand: 0
Speed: 63.25
accel: -
Armor: 5
Sig: 9*
Auto: -
Pilot: 5
Sensor: 4
CF: 0
Load: ~81-Munitions
Seat: 1
Entry: 1h
Fuel: 435PF
Econ: 1.5
Chassis: Large anthro
SI: 999999
Availability: Not yet
Cost: Not worked it out yet.
*=8 when mounting external missiles or if an internal weapon is deployed. May be as low as 6 with everything deployed
Features:
Gridlink Power
Suncell Power
Roll bars
Enviroseal (gas, water, engine)
Amphibeous Operations package 2
Spotlights (low light and IR)
Drive By Wire 3
Rigger Adaptation
+Battletac FDDM Reciever
+BattleTac IVIS Reciever
ED 2 + Power Amplifier 4
ECM 1
Pop-up remote micro-turret
+Silenced/Shortened Barrel Walther MA-2100 Sniper Rifle
Robotic Arm (Str 9) + Cyber HeavyPistol + Silencer
Robotic Arm (Str 9) + Cyber Shotgun + Silencer
External cargo pod Mounting:
+Medium Launch Control System
+Internal Missile Mounts (2 mounts)
+External Missile Mount
+Power Amp 2 (Sensors)
SK Dragoon Scout
Hand: 0
Speed: 63.25
accel: -
Armor: 5
Sig: 9*
Auto: -
Pilot: 5
Sensor: 4
CF: 0
Load: ~81-Munitions
Seat: 1
Entry: 1h
Fuel: 435PF
Econ: 1.5
Chassis: Large anthro
SI: 999999
Availability: Not yet
Cost: Not worked it out yet.
*=8 when mounting external missiles or if an internal weapon is deployed. May be as low as 6 with everything deployed
Features:
Gridlink Power
Suncell Power
Roll bars
Enviroseal (gas, water, engine)
Amphibeous Operations package 2
Spotlights (low light and IR)
Drive By Wire 3
Rigger Adaptation
+Battletac FDDM Reciever
+BattleTac IVIS Reciever
ED 2 + Power Amplifier 4
ECM 1
Pop-up remote micro-turret
+Silenced/Shortened Barrel Walther MA-2100 Sniper Rifle
Robotic Arm (Str 9) + Cyber HeavyPistol + Silencer
Robotic Arm (Str 9) + Cyber Shotgun + Silencer
External cargo pod Mounting:
+Medium Launch Control System
+Internal Missile Mounts (2 mounts)
+External Missile Mount
+Power Amp 2 (Sensors)
| QUOTE |
| Remember, you're talking about power armor, not walking mecha. There's no need to fit bench or bucket seats in it - you're supposed to wear the thing, not pilot it. I don't even think using vehicle control rigs would be appropriate for power armor, since it's more of a suit than a vehicle. |
But they are not creating armor, theis is a vehicle through and through. Pure mecha... they figured the weight at:
| QUOTE |
| Now we have the formula for the weight: 255 + 554 = 809kg |
This means it weighs over three quarters of a ton. This is not a pererson wearing armor, this is a small armored vehicle that for some reason, walks instead of rolls or flies. This is pure mecha at this point.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.