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limejello10512
In the recent book street magic they specifically said that magic cannot resurect the dead or warp space and time making teleprtation impossible (at least not yet...). Now in the upcoming videogame they clearly do both. I suppose the resurection functions pretty much the same as the stabilization spell but there doesn't seem to be any way to explain teleport... anyone have any theories that might explain what might allow for such cannon defying spells?
mfb
yes: the video game devs are jerks who don't want to bother fitting their game into the existing game world.
nezumi
That said, they have offered explanations for both.

The resurrect spell is better described as resuscitation, as it can only revive people who are very nearly, but not quite dead.

The movement spell is basically... Well it's a bit harder to describe in that it makes the person non-corporal, so he can pass through walls. He doesn't so much teleport as travel at approximately normal speed through otherwise impossible barriers.

Both non-canon and pretty sketchy though, I will agree, but could be argued into being vaguely almost canon if you squint your eyes.
Ancient History
And they still do nothing to explain the differences in races.

I can understand their position: they've already written all this code, they don't want to have to go back and re-write it - that would be a bitch and a huge waste of money. Also, they don't want to be tied to the RPG on what they can and cannot do.

Which is why the fan community hideously bashed them.
Tanegar
QUOTE (Ancient History)
And they still do nothing to explain the differences in races.

They're messing with the races, as well? Can you link me to that article, please?
limejello10512
hmm the movement one sounds plausible... come to think of it though they should probably make those spells castable in the pen and paper game. I mean resurection is a staple of fantasy I don't see how teleporting 10 feet will destroy game ballance. Still Iwas wondering if may it was possible because of the presence of the ziggeraut? What do you guys think?
Tanka
QUOTE (Tanegar)
QUOTE (Ancient History @ Nov 26 2006, 03:02 PM)
And they still do nothing to explain the differences in races.

They're messing with the races, as well? Can you link me to that article, please?

Dwarves "eat" magic (nullify it), elves regenerate their magical usage...

No orks, at least, as playable races. Supposedly they're goons or "summons" or something.
mfb
QUOTE (limejello10512)
I mean resurection is a staple of fantasy I don't see how teleporting 10 feet will destroy game ballance.

it's not game balance, it's flavor. teleportation and easy ressurection don't exist in SR. HMHVV doesn't exist in Greyhawk.
SL James
QUOTE (nezumi)
The movement spell is basically... Well it's a bit harder to describe in that it makes the person non-corporal, so he can pass through walls. He doesn't so much teleport as travel at approximately normal speed through otherwise impossible barriers.

Okay, but I also remember a very specific example from one of the devs about teleporting vertically (a couple of times), then activating the glider and sniping the opposing team from above.
KarmaInferno
Actually, teleportation in a game simply not designed with the possibility for it to happen can greatly unbalance things. Chiefly the ability to bypass nearly any mundane obstacle drastically alters gameplay mechanics, and designing runs in general.

You could start putting in all sorts of wards to prevent it, but then things take a turn for the silly as the city gets festooned with anti-teleport defenses.


-karma
RunnerPaul
And to be fair, this wouldn't be the first time a video game of SR has made a major deviation from what is possible in the pen-and-paper. Anyone remember a certain shaman with at least as much cyber as a typical sam?
mfb
yeah, but everything else was so spot-on, in the SNES game. it fudged the details but still painted a fairly accurate picture of the game and world. this SR CTF crap is just way, way off.
Lazerface
I had a topic on their forums about how you could fit it into canon with the explanation of the entire city of Santos being one giant site of power. But as far as the game goes, it's probably not gonna be Shadowrun as we know it. But i'm still hopeful because Mitch told me that they're not going to pin down Shadowrun to a string of multiplayer shooters. He even mentioned Bioware being interested in doing an RPG. (I was invited to demo their game)
SL James
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Nov 26 2006, 05:22 PM)
Actually, teleportation in a game simply not designed with the possibility for it to happen can greatly unbalance things. Chiefly the ability to bypass nearly any mundane obstacle drastically alters gameplay mechanics, and designing runs in general.

What runs? The FPS is a capture the flag game with some SR references tossed in.
mfb
well, yeah. and what do you have to do to get to the flag? you have to run. see? it all fits!
SL James
God sees your crimes.
Muzzaro
I'm normally a target for saying this, but i like what i've seen of the SR game. I'll buy it, and play it because it's still the closest thing to Shadowrun i can get other than the novels which i've kinda read twice over.

Yeah. I don't have a group. *sad face*
TheRedRightHand
QUOTE (mfb)
well, yeah. and what do you have to do to get to the flag? you have to run. see? it all fits!

Statements like that make baby Jesus cry.
bishop186
QUOTE (mfb)
well, yeah. and what do you have to do to get to the flag? you have to run. see? it all fits!

In fact, you may have to even run through shadows! Ooooh, what now? It's shadowrun(ning), biznatch!
Adam
QUOTE (mfb)
well, yeah. and what do you have to do to get to the flag? you have to run. see? it all fits!

Some days I love you.
mfb
but only some days. that's why i left you, you hussy!
Tanka
QUOTE (Adam)
QUOTE (mfb @ Nov 26 2006, 08:03 PM)
well, yeah. and what do you have to do to get to the flag? you have to run. see? it all fits!

Some days I love you.

Bow-chika-wow-wow.
RunnerPaul
QUOTE (mfb)
yeah, but everything else was so spot-on, in the SNES game.

I don't think I've ever had a matrix run in any edition of SR pen-and-paper even closely resemble a glorified game of minesweeper.

But I will agree that the SNES and Genesis games got the overall tone right even if they were off on significant details. Microsoft's offering falls short on setting details and tone.
mfb
that's what i mean, tone. SR is not just man meets magic and machine--you can get that in d20 Modern. i don't think there's anybody here who'd take d20 Modern in place of SR. so why take this SR ripoff in place of SR?
Jack Kain
QUOTE (Muzzaro)
I'm normally a target for saying this, but i like what i've seen of the SR game. I'll buy it, and play it because it's still the closest thing to Shadowrun i can get other than the novels which i've kinda read twice over.

Yeah. I don't have a group. *sad face*

I think shadowrun (sega genesis version) is availble on game tap.
Tanka
QUOTE (mfb)
that's what i mean, tone. SR is not just man meets magic and machine--you can get that in d20 Modern. i don't think there's anybody here who'd take d20 Modern in place of SR. so why take this SR ripoff in place of SR?

d20 Modern + Urban Arcana + Future + Cyberscape, you mean.

d20 Modern is more, uh... Real Life, but with more grenades.
mfb
i didn't feel like typing all that out. figured someone'd come along and do it for me!
Tanka
Bah, making me do all your work.

I'd bitch more, but I have more important things to do, like drink vodka.
SL James
Ah, vodka. My old lover.
2bit
I think theyre explaining teleportation as a personal astral gate. whatever . . . It does look fun, just not fun in a canon way. it's not really a big deal.
Tanka
QUOTE (2bit)
it's not really a big deal.

Is this where we all start frothing at the mouth and call you a godless heathen?
bishop186
QUOTE (Tanka)
QUOTE (2bit @ Nov 27 2006, 02:28 PM)
it's not really a big deal.

Is this where we all start frothing at the mouth and call you a godless heathen?

I believe it is. -begins working up a good froth-
toturi
QUOTE (SL James @ Nov 27 2006, 09:05 AM)
God sees your crimes.

And God loves you more because of them. Go forth and SIN on more!

You know? You can just have the SR game be a AR/VR game in the SR RPG universe. Even if you don't, in SR(computer), it will be canon that you can do things you can't in SR(RPG). You know, like an alternate universe? sarcastic.gif biggrin.gif
Muzzaro
Oh wow. So turn the game into a game? You're basically a bunch of kids hooked in to the latest VR, a rambo-esque take on some of the earlier events of the SR history, but with tricked out weapons, kick-ass new abilities and so on!

I'd love to play a game, where you go all the way through, something say like Doom 3, with all that terror involved, ammo conservation etc, and right at the end, just as you're killing the last giant boss... the screen blurs, and someone pulls the VR plug, and you're in this hovel, cracked terminal infront of you, and what looks to be a pirate copy of the game on the desk.

Wowsers. Anti-climatic or what?
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (toturi)
You know? You can just have the SR game be a AR/VR game in the SR RPG universe.

I can do that with Quake. I can even do that with my disco final (Super Ultra Test Taker IX!). It doesn't make calling it "Shadowrun" any more reasonable.

~J
Lazerface
The beta just got announced and FASAs forums are exploding with newbs. The horror.......the horror......
Critias
QUOTE (Adam)
QUOTE (mfb @ Nov 26 2006, 08:03 PM)
well, yeah. and what do you have to do to get to the flag? you have to run. see? it all fits!

Some days I love you.

Back off my bitch, yo.
lorechaser
I'm just gonna say that Star Wars Galaxies has approximately 10,000,000 jedis in game, and is set in the time between episodes 4 and 5, when Luke was the only Jedi around. So all y'all just hush about your "oooh, you can't teleport in SR!"

nyahnyah.gif

Kagetenshi
"Other people are doing it!" doesn't make it okay.

~J
Grinder
Maybe if you're a 3-year-old kid. biggrin.gif
SL James
QUOTE (lorechaser)
I'm just gonna say that Star Wars Galaxies has approximately 10,000,000 jedis in game, and is set in the time between episodes 4 and 5, when Luke was the only Jedi around. So all y'all just hush about your "oooh, you can't teleport in SR!"

nyahnyah.gif

You may want to start drinking bottled water. There is clearly something very bad in Austin's.
KarmaInferno
Dammit, I clicked on this thread expecting magic-powered artillery.

I'm all pissed off now.

mad.gif


-karma
lorechaser
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
"Other people are doing it!" doesn't make it okay.

~J

It doesn't make it okay. But it does put things in perspective, for me.

Video games ruin things. Just like movies do. You have to accept a certain level of that.

I mean, there were people that couldn't handle the LotR trilogy because Tom Bombadil was left out.

I guess my point is that the amount of variation in the SR game is something I'm willing to accept. I've seen things far less accurate, and things somewhat more accurate, and I'm okay with this breech. At least they made an effort to say "Hey, it's not resurrection, it's resusitation...."

Kagetenshi
QUOTE (lorechaser @ Nov 28 2006, 12:27 PM)
I mean, there were people that couldn't handle the LotR trilogy because Tom Bombadil was left out.

Yes, because that section (in particular, the barrow scene) set up the entire reason that the Witch-King of Angmar was defeatable later on. In the movie, he was defeated because… well, kinda just because.

~J
SL James
QUOTE (lorechaser @ Nov 28 2006, 11:27 AM)
I guess my point is that the amount of variation in the SR game is something I'm willing to accept.  I've seen things far less accurate, and things somewhat more accurate, and I'm okay with this breech.  At least they made an effort to say "Hey, it's not resurrection, it's resusitation...."

I don't know. I am pretty unwilling to accept the fact that the best they could do for the entree into what is intended to be a series was capture the motherfucking flag.
lorechaser
QUOTE (SL James)
I don't know. I am pretty unwilling to accept the fact that the best they could do for the entree into what is intended to be a series was capture the motherfucking flag.

Possibly.

Keep in mind that the key focus here is the interplay of magic and new abilities.

I'm not sure, as a game designer, I'd be willing to upset multiple conventions.

They're already fragging with how weapons work, how movement works, how spawning works and how characters are defined.

Capture the Flag is a rock. People know what it is, they know how it works. It's a known stable element to put all these new conventions up against.

If you'd throw the SR gameplay in to, say, a mission based system of competitive runs in real time, you're now worried about creating a new type of gameplay *and* a new type of objective.

If it succeeds, you don't know if it's the magic system or the run system. If it fails, you don't know if it was the crappy mission interface, or that people would play the missions if people only couldn't teleport.

Maybe I find myself rooting for the underdog - I'm definitely defending the game a lot more than I expected. But really, I think it's getting a bad rap.

People outside the SR community are looking at the new game play as something pretty interesting. We're taking it as a given, then bitching that the rest isn't better....

Course, when it comes out, and it sucks, you can all take your whacks at me. wink.gif
2bit
FPS is a rock. Present the player with a first person perspective and put a gun in their hands and they will run around shooting people. It's not the ultimate objective, it's just the language the game speaks. That's as stable as they needed to be.
Capture the flag though is a story we've all heard before. It's also the only story this game tells. No other game types have been announced. From what I've read, they really wanted to put more game types in (in other words, they realize just having CTF isn't enough), but will be unable to for deadline.
I think it'll be a fun game, but the lack of game type variation will limit its lifespan.
lorechaser
Possibly.

But given that it's releasing on Xbox 360 and Vista, I'm willing to bet they release new modes, either as paks (or whatever they're called now) for a couple bucks, or as free updates.

Lazerface
They're mulling it over. If it costs too much to make the new modes, they won't.
Caine Hazen
QUOTE (Lazerface)
They're mulling it over. If it costs too much to make the new modes, they won't.

It also depends on initial sales of the game. If it seems to make enough, then enough expansions might sell, if it sells gangbusters, they can offer a few free packs at no real loss.
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