Oh, I agree on this point. IEs aren't bulletproof, they're just good at not being where the bullets will hit.

Well, for Harlequin at least, he can Netherwalk. As a result, he only needs a few seconds of warning. Others will probably use some combination of run+powerball.

~J

Oh no, by all means unleash the deluge. I'm interested in criticisms. And thanks.

For his initiate grade of 12, I thought about what players in any normal campaign were likely to reach and then almost doubled it. The effect that I wanted was to create something that was unmatchable but could be understood. He actually has a magic rating a couple higher than a great dragon and these beasts are as old as he is and presumably started off more powerful as well.

I did toy with removing the caps, but didn't in the end. I want him to be vulnerable. It's just that he should be so darned smart that it's near impossible to get the advantage of him.

I never actually read Worlds Without End, I'm working purely from Harlequinn and comments I've read here and elsewhere. I just liked the idea of him being a pure sorceror for an interesting twist. I just couldn't see the archetypal solitaire-individual messing around with summoning elementals. But thanks for the catch. I guess he'll need some conjuring skills after all.

To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time the H. has been statted out. I'd like to see any others.

-K.

"I've forgotten more than you'll ever know."

"Admitting the onset of senility is the first step to overcoming it."

Other Place works very well if the weapon has a kill radius of less than 1 mile. All you have to do is step through the door while chanting "I believe in magical teleportation."
With a kill radius of less than 25 yards, Form Change works wonders and is a good enough reason to never send a strike team with more than one member against an IE.

Next you're going to say that magic can ressurect, aren't you?

ED != SR

Oh, Emo..

You are a nitpicking asshole!

Define teleportation.
Could there not be magic to take a mage's physical body into astral space and from there propel himself as astral space speeds then when he reaches his destination use the the same magic to return his body to the physical plane.


Is that teleportation? or something else.

I should have separated it from the other points, because it isn't an attack on the validity of the passage. I guess it should be replaced with "is there a reference in the SR3 or SR4 core book?", because it was implied that there was and I'm curious to know if that's true independent of the current discussion.

As for Shadowrun is not Earthdawn, I reject that completely. They are explicitly the same world.

There's a longer post in here about how either the Heal spell has to be excised from canon, resurrection has to be made explicitly possible, or Shadowrun has to officially recognize a "soul", but I'll get to that later.

~J

There's soemthing like that in ED> There's the Gateway spell, that basically lets you jump in to astral space. THere's the Nether walking talent, and there's the lightbereaer ability that also lets you jump your body in to astral space. Which IIRC is described as doing a whole column of green/gold light, kinda like Harlequin in his self titled adventrue at the end.

Kage wants Heal removed because assuming ED and SR a are the same worls (which they are, but leaving that part of the arguement out ATM), there was no out right HEAL spell. THere were ltos of spells that could help you heal, but only a questor of Garlen could actually HEAL. mostly because of the game mechanic of recovery tests, which I liked.

resurrection is also possible in ED, either through some pretty hefty magic ( the Return to Life spell) or a ritual (The Masquerade). Both are outlined in Ed books of course, but never in SR, because that goes agisnt the flavor of SR (IMO at least).

Remember of course the imporant part that's relevant to this thread, ,that many of the IE's would have these abilities, and a few others that "break" the rules of SR magic. Such as spellcasting w/o drain through thread weaving. Takes a lot longer though. That's all because of completely different rules systems though, so what you use and what you dont is up to you.

I smell a trip to the morgue and Personafix chips with psych programming coming on.

That's not actually true (the part about that being my reasoning, that is). No, my reasoning is that provided there is no non-physical essence that makes a living being what they are, sufficiently powerful Healing (or some equivalent) ought to restore the dead to life—all death is is tissue necrosis, same as many injuries. If Heal can cure a limb that has had a tourniquet applied to it for long enough for the limb to die, which nothing in canon indicates it can't IIRC, and is able to heal a limb with a hole in it from a shotgun slug, it should be able to fix similar injury to the brain—and if there is no non-physical component to life, restoring the brain and CNS to full health should involve restoring life.

I think I tripped over my own brain in there, but hopefully my reasoning is clear.

~J

You've got a point, there. Scientifically speaking, all that "sentience" is is the patterns and synapses in your brain. Of course, once "Death" occurs, tissues degrade extremely rapidly.

But then, if magic can heal a dead limb, why do they have cloned replacements ready?


That, or recognize some sort of astral "Soul" - after all, there's gotta be some reason a magician sees living people loud and clear on the Astral.

Possible reasons include amputation and the gap between "possible" and "feasible". Though I don't think it's supported by the text, my preferred view on this would be that resurrection is perfectly possible, it just never happens because it's too difficult—requires too powerful a spell, too skilled a spellcaster, and too high a risk of D physical drain for the caster.

~J

given the existence of essence, why would that be assumed? to me, it seems pretty simple--death and 0 essence are the same thing. you reach 0 essence, you die; you die, you are reduced to 0 essence.

of course, that's based on the assumption that resurrection is impossible. no one has ever been able to provide me with a rules quote to that effect, however. to me, that means that resurrection is possible, it's just--as you say--really hard.

In SR4: Reference Street Magic, p. 160 Limits of Sorcery Sidebar

Sorcery cannot raise the dead for a more complete quote look higher up in the thread to Emo's post. (Sorry Emo, closest I could do to quote you...multiple quotes get messy)

There have been similar explicit limitations on magic in previous editions of SR.

There is.

Finally, someone who was there can shed some light on the situation.


Help us, Ancient His-tory, you're our only source.

Is it at all feasable for that pesky condition that happens when your condition monitor floweth over to be overcome magically?