When I saw the Orgasm/Orgy spell, all I thought was "at least now they're being honest about what Stimulate really does."

Call me old fashioned. I just think it's ridiculous. Take the analogy of a woman in extremely revealing lingerie being more exciting than one leaving nothing to the imagination, if you like. Or don't. I don't expect everyone to hold my opinion.

I could be wrong, but aren't Orgy and Turn to Goo spells that used to exist in Shadowrun but were dropped in Third Edition and are now back in Fourth?

...torture by pleasure can at times be more effective than torture by pain.

Re: my analogy. It's not even necessarily that I hold that particular view, it was the only analogy I could think of that I found applicable. Curse my lack of storage capacity, I need to get that "random analogy and metaphor" knowsoft.

As far as what's "acceptable", blah blah blah moralizing blah blah blah. I think it's effing retarded, not for any real deep rooted moral objection or anything, but because I think it's effing retarded. If the spell didn't exist in my game (and it doesn't, since I play SR3) and a player tried to create it, we might have a laugh, but my answer would be "not happening, that's retarded."

Best reason I could give you, excepting a poorly chosen analogy? It smacks of immaturity. Someone didn't like that reason, so I tried to go farther, but in reality, it's just that it's damn stupid IMO. That's about as far as I really got. Does other stuff in SR canon smack of immaturity and/or stupidity? Yeah, but most of the stuff that's as blatant about it as a spell called orgy gets ignored or flat tossed from my games, too.

If you like stuff like this in your games, then great! Go nuts! I don't.

Sometimes an opinion is just an opinion. Sometimes I forget that and try to explain them beyond what's necessary. Call it a condition symptomatic to forum participation, this knee-jerk tendency to further explain even when it's not really necessary.

edit: Oh, and add a mental smiley after "call me old fashioned" in my earlier post. It wasn't intended to actually connote that I'm too staunch/conservative/etc. to allow a spell called orgy. I just think...well, you know. Effing retarded.

Thanks, knasser. Yeah, that's definitely a pretty good sized part of it. Just hadn't thought to frame it that way.

Which I guess could be taken to mean that I don't trust "gamers" on the whole to be able to handle that without it being stupid/immature/annoying. Which I suppose is true, on the whole. No offense to anyone personally/individually, of course. (Although as always, feel free to take it anyway if you like. )

while people's reactions to the name of the spell may be stupid, , and their abiolity to role play the spell limited, the actual spell itself works quite well with the other illusion spells in SM. Bugs, agony etc. It's just creating a different illusion, one that might not totally hack off the subject.
I only brought it up as an example of how a spell other than MP can be used to get info with relatively equal results; and you can use the other dp modifying spells the same way (again, bugs, agony etc.)

...what ever happened to simply using magic fingers to tickle the sammy or guard? Excellent distraction without all the connotation baggage.

...I was referring to tickling ribs. Makes em squirm real good

or the standard, pull the pins on their grenades. I guess that's more ooze than squirm.

I think you just proved my position in this thread:

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...topic=17118&hl=

I got it. It was ... funny.

I'd say pulling pins would be like picking up an item. If you did it in your meat body with nimble fingers, combat hadnt started, and you had multitasking then you could pull 4. (2 free actions, 2 standard actions).

Otherwise only two.

Which ones have the pins removed is easy since it takes like 4 pounds of force to pull the steel pins from the grenades. that much force the target will feel despite armor, etc.

I wouldn't use that on a player unless he were really being obnoxious. I'd also be inclined to increase the penalty for targeting the grenade's pin, since that's a pretty small target.

Still, the circumstance isn't likely to crop up all that often, and it is a nicely cinematic use for the spell.

Two things: Unless you're completely addicted to random chance, the DM can indeed always say "that didn't work," or "you succeed," entirely on fiat. No, it's not railroading. Yes, even the SR book says sometimes ya gotta fudge. I've never seen a single RPG book of any type that recommended you never fudge at all. I only do it once in a blue moon, and my players never see my dice anyway, so they generally can't even tell when I've done it. That's the key of course. The players can never know.

("BEST SERVED COLD" SPOILER)
Example: Yesterday I ran "Best served cold." The team's hacker (who is new to the game and understands hacking in only a very cursory way wanted to hack a customized ares commlink. According to the adventure, this commlink "cheats" because it rolls system+firewall against only 1/2 the hacker's stealth when the hacker tries to hack in, and nukes its contents if it gets net hits. Now, this player loves his new character and is really trying to be helpful to the team. So, when he tries to hack it the commlink gets one net success. Sure, I could go by the dice and say "You fried the 'link, way to make more work for the team and screw them out of about 30,000 nuyen in paydata. Instead, as DM I think "one net success isn't that much, only one die away from failing to notice. I didn't see it." Now instead of my new hacker bringing the team down and feeling useless because he screwed up, he gets to be the hero who brought in that 30,000 nuyen and the other info valuable to the run.

Now, again, 99.9% of the time the dice rule. But if it's the choice between fudging something and turning a five-hour run into a twenty minute run because a mage is abusing mindprobe, I'll fudge every day of the week. Perhaps some players and DMs like to play 30-minute minimum-risk runs with full awards at the end, but brother, that is not us. It's worth noting, though, that I have never, ever, fudged a death roll either way. Sometimes I'll even fudge to make things harder because, well, we play to have fun and be challenged, not walk all over a system by utilizing its most broken aspects.

So I guess I'm saying, if you're a DM and you fudge sometimes, don't worry, you're doing okay. In my opinion, the DM's job goes beyond being a simple arbiter of dice rolls and keeper of plot-knowledge. You're there to make the game as exciting, challenging, rewarding, and fun as possible for everyone involved, including yourself.

I'm really very lucky as a DM though, because my players see things like mindprobe for what they are and would rather play an interesting, difficult game than show how god-awful powerful their piece of paper can be. God bless my players.

OSUMacbeth

Why is the person unconsious?
Is he asleep? In which case answers would be possible although not always correct. Dreams are funny places truth often does not always hold out. Things are sometimes fabricated that sound good to the persons subconsious at the time. With some people a spell would not even be needed to get an answer.

Has he been drugged? If so by what? Some drugs limit neural activity, so no answers to any questions there. A drug that lowers will power would give the best results. If you are in a position to administer drugs to someone perhaps Mind probe really is not needed. A person with classified knowledge should be kept under watch if drugs are used that might allow secrets to slip out (say in a hospital).

If the spell becomes to abused you could always have the character develop Multi-Personality Disorder.

It would just be easier to say in several cases that the guard just does not know. Simular to the discussion I had with a fellow player,"Why would the guard stationed on the outside have the key? If he was authorized to enter, then he would be on the inside. That way he only has to worry about those who try to go through the door instead of everyone." Ok that argument does not always hold up in life but. . .

My players use mindprobe on a regular basis. It is not the automatic win spell that some dread. As has been mentioned, not all NPCs will have all the answers.

And, the NPC only answers the questions that you ask!!!! I make my players ask the questions, and answer them as truthfully as possible. I do not give them anything else, even if it would make the run a cake walk. They have to ask the question. Normally, they miss a few things everytime they use Mindprobe.

Mindprobe has not been used to avoid legwork, but to supplement legwork, verify facts, etc...

So far, they have always used it on sleeping NPCs. They work hard for that NPC not to realize what has been done to them.
One case, two of the attractive PCs (one male, one female) slept with a guard team leader. Once the NPC was asleep, they mindprobed him, did an alter memory (after all, dreams get confusing and change when you try to remember them), then, in the morning had sex with him again.
Now, they often ask nonsense questions, like what does purple taste like, how many angels can dance on the pin of a head, etc.. to help confuse the issue, to have people dismiss it all as a strange dream.
They keep quiet about using mindprobe as well, not letting the Johnson know that they know it.

Knowing that I am an evil, twisted GM, they also know that some main NPCs will set up their minions with false info, because they know about mindprobe, and because of normal betrayal of minions.

Also, I have floated rumors around that Lone Star, Knight Errant and such have been known to use mindprobe on nasty criminals and runners. Even if they can't use it in court, it helps them with crime solving (since they now know who the culprit is, they stop investigating the wrong people-stop wasting time and resources), and can at times, find the physical evidence that will allow them to officially solve the crime and convict the runner.

Great ideas Mistwalker!

I'd only add that its reasonable that casting spells on a naturally sleeping target could wake the target (perception at a penalty maybe and then maybe even automatic waking when the spell is cast.)

In my own situation the mind probe is usually cast after a stun bolt/ball or a slew of Gel rounds/Stick-n-shock.