ah, if only we could harness the rotational power of shadowrun matrix threads...

My group hasn't yet encountered any problems with the Matrix rules. None of us are involved in programming, IT, or anything to do with computers. We don't really care about how "realistic" it is as long as it makes sense, works within the rules, and is fun.

My take on connections based on the RAW (BBB, Errata, and FAQ) is that a subscription list can be infinitely long. However, you are not sending any info to those nodes nor getting anything back. If those nodes Actively Subscibe to your node or if your node actively subscribes to them then communication opens up. Now you can send messages back and forth.

In order to bump your connection from passive to active you have to have Access to the node to which you want to connect or the node that wishes to connect to you must have access to your node. This is where hacking and normal/security/admin access comes in. Just because you are requesting to have an active subscription (communication) with a node doesn't mean that it'll let you have access.

So all a corporate node needs to do is sit there and process requests from other nodes asking for permission to talk to it. The other nodes are the ones that are actively subscribing to it so the coporate node doesn't run into its subscription limit (since passive subscription is infinite). However, if the corporate node needs to communicate with other nodes (say 4 security commlinks each running a combat agent that it needs to send the alert to) then it needs to actively subscribe to them. So in this case the corporate node has 4 active subscriptions towards its limit of say 8 (system 4).

Also, lets say that it is the Seattle HQ and needs to communicate with both the Seattle branches and the corporate HQ in Chiba. Every hour on the half hour each branch opens up an active communication with the Seattle HQ. Those ones now include Seattle HQ as part of their active subscription. They stay open for say 15 minutes while they upload all the necessary status reports. Hackers could hack the branch nodes and ride that connection into the Seattle HQ node between :30 and :45. The Seattle HQ then connects with Chiba HQ every hour on the hour and stays open for 15 minutes (:00 to :15) allowing it to send vital updates and reports automatically and allowing hackers to ride the connection in. There could be dozens of nodes accessing Seattle and hundreds accessing Chiba but neither of them are actively subscribed to those branch nodes.

If an alert were raised on the corporate node it sends the alert message to the commlinks with the agents. The agents are loaded and running on each of the commlinks. They and their programs count against the commlink not the node but operate at the response of the node since they are acting remotely from the persona (commlink). Thus the node doesn't run into slowdown from running the agents (who ask to add the node to their active list and are given access and thus passively subscribed by the node). However, the agents could still run into slowdown if they are running to many programs from their system (and would be at Node's response - penalty).

As for the hordes of Agents. The FAQ states that Agents can not load other agents. They may only load common use or hacking programs. A hacker could theoretically load a million agents onto a node and keep them idling there on his passive subscription list. The agents could communicate with the hacker but the hacker could not send commands to them. Their Pilot would be limited by the System of the Node they were loaded onto and would suffer penalties to response as per usual. Also they would only be able to use the programs loaded onto that node since they are not loaded into the hacker's Persona and therefore cannot access his programs running on his commlink.

The hacker could then subscribe to them actively and give them orders. As with drones you could do this in batches or singly just like drones. So you could theoretically give a million agents all the same order. However, it is pointless and stupid to give more than 5 agents the same order unless you want hostile programs to have to wade through a million agents, since teamwork only gives the test a maximum of +5 to the test. SO ONLY 6 OF THE AGENTS ARE ACTUALLY "DOING" SOMETHING. Also note that the agents are loaded onto a specific node. Unless they are loaded onto the TARGET node they do not cause a denial of service attack. They operate at the response of the target node but they are loaded onto a separate node and count their system and program penalties thereof based off that node not the target. Thus you'd have to hack access and load all those millions of agents without anyone noticing to cause a DoS attack.

Ditto with all the corporate facilities' security procedures. They actively subscribe to the node but the node doesn't actively subscribe to them. Hell, you could use the security monitor as the hub and have all cameras subscribe to that and the monitor then subscribes to the node. The spider can then subscribe to the node or to the monitor (if he is in range) to review the security footage. Since anything that can connect to a local network can be accessed by anything that has range to that network the spider can connect to anything without going through the node. The node just makes it easier as a central place to review reports from all the security devices (alarms from sensors or tripwires, footage from cameras, communication with drones, AR feeds from guards' HUDs or gun cameras, etc).

Finally, as far as the metaphors go I agree with those that say entities within the system have to abide by the metaphor of the system. This makes the game very much like "The Matrix" but it works better for the human mind to think about it in those terms. It is easier to comprehend. Even agents in that movie had to abide by the metaphor but they could "bend" the rules a bit. A wall was still a wall for them but they could "extend their senses" into the room with Morpheus in order to shoot at him. However, that's because Agents in that movie were given VERY broad mandates. Notice that they still couldn't do anything without being present in the "physical location" and having a "physical presence" there (they had to assume one of the Humans' bodies).

Neo was different because he was "The One." He was created by the Architect/Oracle (the Resonance) in order to correct flaws in the system. He was the "Ghost in the Machine." Whenever he did something Neo-ish it caused the Operator (spider) to see something unusual happen in the programming of the Matrix. Basically he was a technomancer and operated under a different set of rules. He could instantly jump from one part of the node (city) to another but he still chose to fly at supersonic speeds. Instead of having to drive, or log out and log back in in a different part of the city he did it at once. He chose to portray himself flying at those speeds instead of teleporting from spot to spot. It made more sense to his brain and maybe seemed "cooler" than teleportation. The main point here is that he could break the rules better than everything else but he was still human.

This is the way me and my group choose to play. It makes sense to use to use these interpretations and they work within the BBB/Errata/FAQ. It also makes more sense to us to think of the matrix in this fashion as opposed to a programming space composed of bits and bytes. It is easier to think of the Seattle Grid as the Observation deck of the Space Needle with each window giving a view of a different part of Seattle (local grids) as opposed to just HTML code. Likewise it is easier to understand if my hacker is creeping around with a bush in front of him (stealth program) while the helicopter and cop car try to spot him. That's just us.

..so we are back to evil OS makers limiting the lusers.

You two are being very politely rude. I appreciate the effort at least, but please tone it down a bit.

I confess to merely skimming the three pages of posts since I last checked a mere three hours ago, but something caught my eye that I'd like to address.

Somebody stated that IC and agents do not see the Matrix through the metaphor. I rather think that they'd have to see the metaphor, for a couple of reasons.

First, the agent has to be able to interact with the Matrix object (file, icon, connection, control, etc.) within the metaphor. If it is blind to that information, it wouldn't be able to do its job.

Second, I imagine that a Matrix object would be written using some variation of object-orientated programming, so that it could easily interface with the rest of the Matrix. Each object would have a chunk that defined its size, shape, look, activity, etc. in the Matrix metaphor. More specific information (what the object does, what type it is, what it is currently doing, etc.) is not immediately public.

An agent would detect an object, but to the agent it would only detect the public sections of the object. True, it wouldn't "see" the metaphor, but only in the same way the Librarian from Snow Crash didn't "know" any of the information it discussed. But the agent doesn't magically get more information than a hacker does just because it's a program. It has to perform the same analysis that the hacker does in order to figure out the hidden information in a Matrix object.

-Moon-Hawk
Ok, that makes sense. Essentially, it could be done that way, but to say, hack it for example, every time you went to a new area, you'd have to do Exploit again.

Or for another version, in a corp host , with legitimate access, you'd have to be putting in passwords every time you "opened a new page" for a more current term. Which does happen in some businesses, but is clunky as hell.

Thanks for the clarification.

or it could be that there are multiple devices that share a common access system. got in one place, have access all over. for those in the know, a kerberos token perhaps? (as in, a kind of digital id card that says that the guard at the gate allowed you in so your save to let roam free)

If the GM decides that all actions by the Hacker in the Node are subject to the patrolling IC/Agent/Data Bomb getting to roll the opposed test to detect the Hacker, and that the system does in fact have that patrolling IC and Agents doing so, and most systems do, well by golly yes you have an unhackable unplayable system!

This would be the same as my making the stuffer shack employee an initiate grade 15 cyber zombie for the Food Fight Scenario. Sure, the rules allow it, it's in the RAW, but why the heck would I do it?

The one thing I always think about, did you know today we have all the resources and capability to make the Internet perfectly secure. But for some reason it hasn't happened? Just because it can happen, doesn't mean it does.

You can't take the capability of the single extreme case and extend to it to all systems.

@Moon-Hawk:
I appreciate that you enjoyed our conversation thus far. Frankly, this sort of debate is what I love to do, much to my wife's chagrin.

If a Node was at it's subscription limit and I wanted to Hack it, all I need to do really is perform Matrix Perception, or Interept wireless traffic to identify a Node to impersonate, and then send my Commands via Spoof as one of the devices on the subscription list.