Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Tunguska [spoilers warning]
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
Pages: 1, 2
treehugger
I was reading Shadows of Asia last night and i was really interested in the Yakut part.
To sum up for those that didnt read it, or dont recal that part, it seems that Siberia declared independance from Russia with the help of Shapeshifters and more importantly of a Free Spirit of massive power.
After independance, they realised the price they had to pay : the Shapeshifters are running the dance now and any who opposes them dissapear. Most ignore everything about the spirit, but she is the power behind the shapeshifters.
That's for the Yakut part.

Regarding Tunguska, famous "Alien Crash Site" the shadow posters make interesting comments : the crash is not an UFO, but some "device" that was sent in space thousands of years ago, and that crashed back. Another poster says it was actualy some kind of spirit that was imprisoned and sent away.
In those posts there is no link between the spirit ruling yakut and that imprisoned spirit sent in space.

So, any of you have more information regarding this story ? any supposition to what could be that spirit ? (the one ruling yakut and the one imprisoned).
MITJA3000+
IIRC it's name was Verniya. But other than that, I don't remember. Harlequin might have had something to do with the spirit prison being whacked into the orbit, or then not. My guess is that it's somekind of a shadow spirit, but not a horror.
treehugger
Thanks for the name Mitja smile.gif
But do you think both stories are linked ? (Verniya and the entrapped spirit sent in space)
Besides why would Harlequin be linked to that story (or stories) ?
What's a shadow spirit if not some kind of horror spawn ?
I'm not familiar with Earthdawn, is there any similar story ? (regarding a shapeshifter kingdom or a spirit sent in space ?)
Ophis
Back in "Smuggler's Haven's" Harlequin makes a joking reference towards Tunguska that they were trying to give earth another moon, rather than it being something that had fallen to earth on it's own, basically they were trying to get rid of it and due to the low mana level (early 20 century) hadn't achieved escape velocity. Maybe they were worried the spirit would break out once the mana level returned.
Daddy's Little Ninja
Snow Fox is better than I am at this stuff but I think the real thing was a massive explosion in 1912. some people say it was a UFO but many people think it was a meteor hitting the earth. You could ask what sent the meteor or UFO or what ever it was.
Ophis
According to Harlequin it was an attempt to hurl a big rock off earth, it didn't make it and landed with a bang!
IRL it seems to be a meteor that exploded before impact, hence huge area of devastation and not a huge crater.
Wounded Ronin
I remember learning about Tunguska in an astronomy course as an undergrad. Apparently, all those people who went and hyped Tunguska up into some great big conspiracy theory about aliens or whatever are a most hated anathema to astronomer types because they represent the flabby and expansive stupid smothering serious and scientific inquiry into things.

Since that's how the issue was introduced to me in an astronomy class, I propose that the Tunguska projectile is actually a capsule full of alien furries with superpowers created by an intergalactic Con of Darkness.
treehugger
I know the RL stuff about Tunguska : There was trees burnt and lying on the ground around 100 km, but the scientists at the time never found an impact nor a residual of what fell, this is the hype around Tunguska, and the end of the story might be know next year with a new expedition.
I want to know the SR stuff ^^
MITJA3000+
QUOTE (treehugger)
Thanks for the name Mitja smile.gif
But do you think both stories are linked ? (Verniya and the entrapped spirit sent in space)
Besides why would Harlequin be linked to that story (or stories) ?
What's a shadow spirit if not some kind of horror spawn ?
I'm not familiar with Earthdawn, is there any similar story ? (regarding a shapeshifter kingdom or a spirit sent in space ?)

As for the stories being linked, I guess it isn't stated anywhere clearly. But given that Verniya is being described as a mean spirit, I think it is reasonable to assume that they are the same, with the location and all.

I don't remember how the shadow spirits are described, but I recall that they are not horrors. And if the spirit in question would be a horror, why would Harley & Co trap it, when it's time on earth is relatively limited?
Draconis
QUOTE (MITJA3000+)
QUOTE (treehugger @ Aug 21 2007, 06:35 AM)
Thanks for the name Mitja smile.gif
But do you think both stories are linked ? (Verniya and the entrapped spirit sent in space)
Besides why would Harlequin be linked to that story (or stories) ?
What's a shadow spirit if not some kind of horror spawn ?
I'm not familiar with Earthdawn, is there any similar story ? (regarding a shapeshifter kingdom or a spirit sent in space ?)

As for the stories being linked, I guess it isn't stated anywhere clearly. But given that Verniya is being described as a mean spirit, I think it is reasonable to assume that they are the same, with the location and all.

I don't remember how the shadow spirits are described, but I recall that they are not horrors. And if the spirit in question would be a horror, why would Harley & Co trap it, when it's time on earth is relatively limited?

Shadow spirits aren't horrors per se, but they're certainly no picnic.

I don't see how the spirits time on earth is limited though.
MITJA3000+
QUOTE (Draconis)

I don't see how the spirits time on earth is limited though.

I meant that if it was a horror, there would be no point in trapping it, since it would have to go away when mana dropped.
Draconis
QUOTE (MITJA3000+)
QUOTE (Draconis @ Aug 22 2007, 01:34 PM)

I don't see how the spirits time on earth is limited though.

I meant that if it was a horror, there would be no point in trapping it, since it would have to go away when mana dropped.

Ah indeed, or maybe not. Here's a scary thought for you. Say it's an earlier age with mana. Horror inhabits something, then it aspects a power site to it, domain, warp, whatever. Then maybe it uses some variation of manastatic to keep enough mana nearby to stick around during the upcoming downcycle.
I call it the goldfish bowl scenario. Then as the mana goes back up your tank gets bigger until you don't need it anymore and you can go bite heads off again.
treehugger
From memory, Shedims (i suppose they are the shadow spirits) have the evannecence power that makes tehm loose magic while they are materialised.
Draconis
QUOTE (treehugger @ Aug 22 2007, 07:04 PM)
From memory, Shedims (i suppose they are the shadow spirits) have the evannecence power that makes tehm loose magic while they are materialised.

Until they anchor themselves via possessing an undead vessel. Then it's all wine, roses, and braaaaaains. smile.gif
Ancient History
Do do do do do doo...

The references in Target: Smuggler Havens and Shadows of Asia are about all there is to Tunguska in SR. Given the comments from The Laughing Man and Orange Queen with other information, several theories emerge. The following is the most popular, though I can't tell you if it's what the authors intended exactly:
QUOTE
The free spirit Verniya was trapped at some point in the past and vaulted into orbit as additional security (compare the Elvish Imiri ti-Versakhan in Australia). Presumably the orbit was unstable or began to decay, as an attempt was made to correct it, failed, and resulted in the Tunguska Blast of 1912. Why the artifact wasn't found remains unknown-it may well have been destroyed in the blast, but that doesn't explain how Verniya survived the next ninety years. In any event, flash forward to the Awakening and Verniya, free to act now, forms the Awakened Yakut.

Keep in mind, this is just one speculation on the given material in these books.
treehugger
Nice Ancient smile.gif
The question imho isnt how she survived, but why did she needed a pact with the shamans and shapeshifters to rule Yakut since if she survived for a hundred years without mana she must be quite powerfull smile.gif
I'm not an X-Files fan btw, i'm looking for traces of Barsaive in SR, so each time i see "archeological" or "ancient artifact" i'm trying to learn more about it.
I know nothing about Australia in SR, but regarding craters and elves, could their be a link between Crater Lake and Tunguska ?
MITJA3000+
QUOTE (treehugger)
The question imho isnt how she survived, but why did she needed a pact with the shamans and shapeshifters to rule Yakut since if she survived for a hundred years without mana she must be quite powerfull smile.gif

Everybody needs help. Dunkie, Lofwyr, Ghostwalker, everybody needs help. And even if they don't NEED it, it sure doesn't hurt.
Ancient History
QUOTE (treehugger)
I'm not an X-Files fan btw, i'm looking for traces of Barsaive in SR, so each time i see "archeological" or "ancient artifact" i'm trying to learn more about it.
QUOTE
I know nothing about Australia in SR, but regarding craters and elves, could their be a link between Crater Lake and Tunguska ?

Impossible to say for certain, but there doesn't appear to be any.
Snow_Fox
Spaceship theorists point to the fact that pics of the scene look like an massive bomb airburst. Well before nuclear weapons or FAE they thing a space ship.
The real blast is actually thought to have been a comet that coming real low in the environment the ice, melted to steam and burst the rock apart. Airburst
Cain
There's a ton of theories in RL, ranging from anything from a comet that airburst, to a geological event, to a Nikolai Tesla publicity stunt gone wrong (my favorite cyber.gif ). All that's agreed upon is that it was the most powerful high-energy event to occur in recorded history.
Jame J
QUOTE (treehugger)
From memory, Shedims (i suppose they are the shadow spirits) have the evannecence power that makes tehm loose magic while they are materialised.

Can anyone give me a reference for Shedim other than Shadows of Asia?

Thank you!
Kagetenshi
Year of the Comet, Threats 2.

~J
Snow_Fox
QUOTE (Cain @ Aug 26 2007, 11:11 PM)
There's a ton of theories in RL, ranging from anything from a comet that airburst, to a geological event, to a Nikolai Tesla publicity stunt gone wrong (my favorite cyber.gif ).  All that's agreed upon is that it was the most powerful high-energy event to occur in recorded history.

It predated Tesla by decades and being hundreds of miles in the middle of freaking no where it took the Russian army a few years to get out there. It was just too far for someone to haul conventional explosives or even beyond SOTA explosives. I mean why blow up freaking Siberia? It's like blowing up New Jersey, it'll be years before anyone notices and years more before anyone bothers to have a look.

Seriously, ever seen the photos? It wasn't something from below the ground, people say airburst because it looks like a forest that had a big bomb airburst over it-around the blast point the trees were blow over so they point out from the center but at the heart of the blast they are upright, but the branchs are stripped.
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (Snow_Fox)
It's like blowing up New Jersey, it'll be years before anyone notices and years more before anyone bothers to have a look.

Detroit?
NightmareX
QUOTE (Snow_Fox)
Seriously, ever seen the photos? It wasn't something from below the ground, people say airburst because it looks like a forest that had a big bomb airburst over it-around the blast point the trees were blow over so they point out from the center but at the heart of the blast they are upright, but the branchs are stripped.

Just like an airburst nuke.
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (NightmareX)
QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ Aug 27 2007, 09:18 PM)
Seriously, ever seen the photos? It wasn't something from below the ground, people say airburst because it looks like a forest that had a big bomb airburst over it-around the blast point the trees were blow over so they point out from the center but at the heart of the blast they are upright, but the branchs are stripped.

Just like an airburst nuke.

You know, Nightmare, I keep reading your sig and thinking, "I want the cold Mexican hooker."
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (Snow_Fox)
It predated Tesla by decades and being hundreds of miles in the middle of freaking no where it took the Russian army a few years to get out there. It was just too far for someone to haul conventional explosives or even beyond SOTA explosives. I mean why blow up freaking Siberia? It's like blowing up New Jersey, it'll be years before anyone notices and years more before anyone bothers to have a look.

Tesla (born in 1856) was in his 50's when it occured (1908). I have no idea how math works in your crazy world, but that certainly doesn't "predate" him in any real definition of the term.

And based upon the rest of what you spewed out, you clearly have no idea what the theory was in regards to why Tesla was associated with the event. Hint: It had to do with his experiments in wireless power transmissions and how it could be used to bounce off the ionsphere and used as a weapon that could strike anywhere in the world.
Penta
QUOTE (Snow_Fox)
I mean why blow up freaking Siberia? It's like blowing up New Jersey Nebraska, it'll be years before anyone notices and years more before anyone bothers to have a look.

Took the trouble of fixing that for you. We're not insignificant. Nebraska, however, is.smile.gif
Kagetenshi
Yeah, people would notice if you blew up New Jersey. They'd wonder why the place looked so much nicer.

~J
Daddy's Little Ninja
QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)
QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ Aug 27 2007, 08:18 PM)
It predated Tesla by decades and being hundreds of miles in the middle of freaking no where it took the Russian army a few years to get out there. It was just too far for someone to haul conventional explosives or even beyond SOTA explosives. I mean why blow up freaking Siberia? It's like blowing up New Jersey, it'll be years before anyone notices and  years more before anyone bothers to have a look.

Tesla (born in 1856) was in his 50's when it occured (1908). I have no idea how math works in your crazy world, but that certainly doesn't "predate" him in any real definition of the term.

And based upon the rest of what you spewed out, you clearly have no idea what the theory was in regards to why Tesla was associated with the event. Hint: It had to do with his experiments in wireless power transmissions and how it could be used to bounce off the ionsphere and used as a weapon that could strike anywhere in the world.

Even I've heard of Tesla's death ray, but if he had it operational in 1908, why not use it in 1917 or 1942? even if it was destroyed in 1908 with the blast, Tesla was not and he could have rebuilt it.

treehugger
Hmm but dont you think Tunguska sounds much cooler than New Jersey ?
I mean "the Dark Secret Mystery of New Jersey" doesnt sound as cool as just "Tunguska" ^^

So who ever did a run involving Tunguska ? or even Siberia ? (or New Jersey ?)
treehugger
So who was that Telsa guy ? one of those IE ?
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (Daddy's Little Ninja @ Aug 28 2007, 08:58 AM)
Even I've heard of Tesla's death ray, but if he had it operational in 1908, why not use it in 1917 or 1942? even if it was destroyed in 1908 with the blast, Tesla was not and he could have rebuilt it.

Assuming he didn't have an Einstein moment and decide that such a "weapon" was too much for humanity. I mean, if it were the case, he created the equivalence of a nuclear explosion with the push of a button. That's pretty humbling as much as it is awe-inspiring. Heck, could even be one of the reasons we have a hole in the o-zone. biggrin.gif
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)
o-zone.

I'm pretty sure this isn't actually what you meant, but the idea of Tesla blasting a hole in a Moldovan pop band is more amusing than I would have anticipated.

~J
Herald of Verjigorm
QUOTE (treehugger)
So who was that Telsa guy ? one of those IE ?

In Real Life™ Nikola Tesla, inventor of alternating current, very entertaining spark generation systems, radio, an interesting pump mechanism, and many other things that are probably the basis of technology you use daily.

Yet many people have not heard of him, because politics favored Edison and Tesla is mostly just mentioned when you need some 1900's doomsday weapon or other act of Mad Science!™.

In Shadowrun, eh, he'd probably be classified as one of Leonardo's guises throughout history.
Daddy's Little Ninja
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein @ Aug 28 2007, 10:07 AM)
o-zone.

I'm pretty sure this isn't actually what you meant, but the idea of Tesla blasting a hole in a Moldovan pop band is more amusing than I would have anticipated.

~J

Ok, this made me laugh out loud at work.
hyzmarca
QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)
QUOTE (Daddy's Little Ninja @ Aug 28 2007, 08:58 AM)
Even I've heard of Tesla's death ray, but if he had it operational in 1908, why not use it in 1917 or 1942? even if it was destroyed in 1908 with the blast, Tesla was not and he could have rebuilt it.

Assuming he didn't have an Einstein moment and decide that such a "weapon" was too much for humanity. I mean, if it were the case, he created the equivalence of a nuclear explosion with the push of a button. That's pretty humbling as much as it is awe-inspiring. Heck, could even be one of the reasons we have a hole in the o-zone. biggrin.gif

It is common knowledge that Tesla hid his deathray research in a safety deposit box shortly before he time-traveled to the future, gained physical immortality via future science, and became a sort of timecop.

The reasearch was discovered, of course, and seized by the government. DARPA built the machine and NASA launched it into space so that it could be used for the dual purpose of deterrence and missile defense. Unfortunately, it malfunctioned and destroyed the world, but Time-Traveling Immortal Nicola Tesla was able to avert the disaster with the help of an Irish bartender, a superintelligent mutant toddler, and several other alcohol-loving misfits.
fistandantilus4.0
Yay Tesla! biggrin.gif
Wounded Ronin
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
Yeah, people would notice if you blew up New Jersey. They'd wonder why the place looked so much nicer.

~J

Plus you'd have to contend with the Superhero League of Hoboken.
CyberKender
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
It is common knowledge that Tesla hid his deathray research in a safety deposit box shortly before he time-traveled to the future, gained physical immortality via future science, and became a sort of timecop.

The reasearch was discovered, of course, and seized by the government. DARPA built the machine and NASA launched it into space so that it could be used for the dual purpose of deterrence and missile defense. Unfortunately, it malfunctioned and destroyed the world, but Time-Traveling Immortal Nicola Tesla was able to avert the disaster with the help of an Irish bartender, a superintelligent mutant toddler, and several other alcohol-loving misfits.

Hear hear! *Smashes his glass in the fireplace* Bless me, father, for I have thirst.
Lazerface
And then Nikola Tesla's expiriments were noticed by the Scrin and thus, the arrival of Tiberium here on earth.
Draconis
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein @ Aug 28 2007, 10:07 AM)
QUOTE (Daddy's Little Ninja @ Aug 28 2007, 08:58 AM)
Even I've heard of Tesla's death ray, but if he had it operational in 1908, why not use it in 1917 or 1942? even if it was destroyed in 1908 with the blast, Tesla was not and he could have rebuilt it.

Assuming he didn't have an Einstein moment and decide that such a "weapon" was too much for humanity. I mean, if it were the case, he created the equivalence of a nuclear explosion with the push of a button. That's pretty humbling as much as it is awe-inspiring. Heck, could even be one of the reasons we have a hole in the o-zone. biggrin.gif

It is common knowledge that Tesla hid his deathray research in a safety deposit box shortly before he time-traveled to the future, gained physical immortality via future science, and became a sort of timecop.

The reasearch was discovered, of course, and seized by the government. DARPA built the machine and NASA launched it into space so that it could be used for the dual purpose of deterrence and missile defense. Unfortunately, it malfunctioned and destroyed the world, but Time-Traveling Immortal Nicola Tesla was able to avert the disaster with the help of an Irish bartender, a superintelligent mutant toddler, and several other alcohol-loving misfits.

Yes, my toaster told me all about that.
Herald of Verjigorm
My toaster isn't that insightful.
nezumi
QUOTE (treehugger)
So who ever did a run involving Tunguska ? or even Siberia ? (or New Jersey ?)

I had a 'pre-SR history' game that had a portion in Siberia. I loosely drew on a Bruce Sterling short story, where Tunguska is where a spaceship landed that basically made itself into whatever you expected/wanted it to be. It was recovered by the Soviets who:

[ Spoiler ]


Anyway, it was a highly magical spot and basically a blind sight from scrying. It was the home to a semi-major magical revolutionary group which was training to overpower the gods themselves. The PC was eventually discovered to actually be a woman and was nearly raped before she ran away and was thrown into a flea-infested Soviet prison block for a few months of fate that was perhaps worse than being gang raped and left for dead in the Siberian wasteland.

I've never run anything in New Jersey. That setting is just too depressing for me.
Kyrn
The destruction of New Jersey and Nebraska was actually rather high on the Soviet Union's "to do" list. Jersey is the single most strategically important part of the lower 48 (massive industrial infrastructure) and Nebraska is where a whole lot of our food comes from. Of course I suppose that's NAN's problem in SR...
Draconis
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
Year of the Comet, Threats 2.

~J

And of course Street Magic.
Cain
QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein @ Aug 28 2007, 08:07 AM)
QUOTE (Daddy's Little Ninja @ Aug 28 2007, 08:58 AM)
Even I've heard of Tesla's death ray, but if he had it operational in 1908, why not use it in 1917 or 1942? even if it was destroyed in 1908 with the blast, Tesla was not and he could have rebuilt it.

Assuming he didn't have an Einstein moment and decide that such a "weapon" was too much for humanity. I mean, if it were the case, he created the equivalence of a nuclear explosion with the push of a button. That's pretty humbling as much as it is awe-inspiring. Heck, could even be one of the reasons we have a hole in the o-zone. biggrin.gif

The legend goes something like this: The day before Tunguska, Tesla sent a telegraph to Perry, who was on an expidition to the North Pole. He asked Perry to keep an eye out for any interesting meterological phenomena. Now, if you've studied Tesla's history, this is one of his subtle ways of letting people know he's up to something. Anyway, Perry didn't see anything, but Tunguska isn't that far from the North Pole.

Is it likely? Probably not. Is it entertaining? Hell yeah. cool.gif It made a great basis for a Shadowrun adventure, that was for certain.
Snow_Fox
I knew Tesla lived to the mid-20th century. I didn't realize he was born in the mid-19th century. considering what I've heard of Tesla's ego, I can't see him holding back or having an 'Einstein momment." More likely he'd show it off to get the praise he felt was his due.
[ Spoiler ]


That could be an interesting campaign-hmmm
Cain
Tesla had bad feelings about genocide, overriding even his ego. At any event, I had a fun little Shadowrun adventure where the PC's had to go for Tesla's Death Ray notes. They succeeded in stealing every copy, but then they discovered they were sitting on the principles responsible for Tunguska. Deciding what to do with those notes, while dealing with everyone coming after them, made for a fun night's game.

[ Spoiler ]
NightmareX
QUOTE (Wounded Ronin)
You know, Nightmare, I keep reading your sig and thinking, "I want the cold Mexican hooker."

Heh, sweet biggrin.gif cool.gif
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012