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DTFarstar
I'm actually probably going to go blood mage soon in my GM's game. IF it happens and I don't die I'll let you guys know how it works out power wise, keep in mind I'm a pretty responsible player, this is mostly an RP decision.

Chris
Big D
An initiated mage.

That's it. That's all you need to start with. Just an initiated mage, and a GM who doesn't slap you down or send dragons after you once they catch on.

Use a metaplanar quest to get the formula of a level 1 succubus (muse will also work, but may take more effort).

Bind the snot out of the succubus, and/or reach an agreement with her to split the karma (90/10). Remind her that you can always release her and get another.

You should be able to swing Formula/Life pacts, and daily Power Pact(Compulsion/Energy Drain). Then, go to clubs, bars, raves, and start eating. Heck, if you trust her (or your manipulative abilities), you can buff her charisma up and have her do the work for you, then drain up to 8 karma a day from her without accidentally zapping her home.

For even more cheese, acquire a brothel. With cameras and fiberoptic lines in each room, leading to a secret room where you can use the latter to munch on karma with mage goggles.

With your massive karma income (and some cash flow if you run the optional business), you can pump your stats, initiate to the sky, and, ultimately, summon double-digit force allies capable of throwing down with dragons. Oh, and treated nicely, they'll never betray you.

Needless to say, a pornomancer/magic adept would be the ultimate fit for this plan; the only catch is that you'd need Astral Gateway or some alternate method of acquiring that free spirit formula to start.
Cain
Speaking of which, does anyone have a full pornomancer build? I'm going to be playing on Sat witha guy whos been running an unoptimized build, so I thought I'd show him what a full build can look like.
bibliophile20
QUOTE (Cain)
Speaking of which, does anyone have a full pornomancer build? I'm going to be playing on Sat witha guy whos been running an unoptimized build, so I thought I'd show him what a full build can look like.

Do you want a optimized starting character, 400 point build, optimized pornomancer? Or is some karma allowed, and if so, how much?
Glyph
Well, since I statted this monster originally, I'll give a more complete build. I don't have Augmentation, so I imagine a few positive qualities or choice pieces of 'ware could boost the character even more. Still, 32 dice isn't bad. Like most "how many dice can I get for this one thing" builds, it suffers in other areas.

[ Spoiler ]
toturi
Not infinitely broken but still quite powerful:

SR3: Background 10 Virtuso Adept(Magical Adept or normal Adept).
yoshikisquall
QUOTE (Big D)
An initiated mage.

[Edit text]

Use a metaplanar quest to get the formula of a level 1 succubus (muse will also work, but may take more effort).

Bind the snot out of the succubus, and/or reach an agreement with her to split the karma (90/10). Remind her that you can always release her and get another.

You should be able to swing Formula/Life pacts, and daily Power Pact(Compulsion/Energy Drain). Then, go to clubs, bars, raves, and start eating. Heck, if you trust her (or your manipulative abilities), you can buff her charisma up and have her do the work for you, then drain up to 8 karma a day from her without accidentally zapping her home.

[Edit text]

Is this possible to do in SR3? If so excatly how would you go about doing it? And where would I go to find more info on it?
hyzmarca
QUOTE (yoshikisquall)
QUOTE (Big D @ Oct 20 2007, 11:09 AM)
An initiated mage.

[Edit text]

Use a metaplanar quest to get the formula of a level 1 succubus (muse will also work, but may take more effort).

Bind the snot out of the succubus, and/or reach an agreement with her to split the karma (90/10).  Remind her that you can always release her and get another.

You should be able to swing Formula/Life pacts, and daily Power Pact(Compulsion/Energy Drain).  Then, go to clubs, bars, raves, and start eating.  Heck, if you trust her (or your manipulative abilities), you can buff her charisma up and have her do the work for you, then drain up to 8 karma a day from her without accidentally zapping her home.

[Edit text]

Is this possible to do in SR3? If so excatly how would you go about doing it? And where would I go to find more info on it?

No.

Spirit Pacts didn't exist in SR3, neither did the Endowment power.
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (Glyph)
Well, since I statted this monster originally, I'll give a more complete build. I don't have Augmentation, so I imagine a few positive qualities or choice pieces of 'ware could boost the character even more. Still, 32 dice isn't bad. Like most "how many dice can I get for this one thing" builds, it suffers in other areas.

[ Spoiler ]

You left out Enhanced Pheromone Receptors and the optional Cosmetic Surgery rules in Augmentation. Both grant up to a +3 dice pool modifier for Charisma-linked skills.
Glyph
I finally gave up on Amazon.com and got Augmentation from Stiggybaby.com. So for a revised pornomancer, I would add enhanced pherome receptors, vocal range enhancer, and some minor biosculpting to improve her physical appearance. The latter only gives the +2 bonus for being attractive to a potential target, but lots of this build's modifiers are pretty conditional.

[ Spoiler ]


Of course, for a character intended for play, I would ditch the home ground for the much better genetic heritage (with genetic optimization/Charisma as the "freebie"). Along with lots of other changes. But it's really an exercise like the climber one, a "how many dice can you get for this" build.

Honestly, though, in a game with ganders picking up runaways for bunraku parlors, personafixes that let people turn you into a slave, people who are above the law interacting with people with no rights to speak of, and all of that other distopian goodness... your main ability is making people want you? Talk about a double-edged sword! eek.gif



GM: The huge troll's mouth opens in a grin, exposing his metallic teeth, as he comes over, clearly smitten.

Player: But, but... I was across the room, and I wasn't even trying to seduce him.

GM: You're THAT. GOOD.



GM: Sheik Hareem looms over you with the needle. "Don't be afraid, my little flower, you will awaken in my harem" he coos. Suddenly, the door explodes off it's hinges as Drake and his men burst into the room, battling with Hareem's bodyguards.

Player: I forget, is Drake the Humanis guy who wants to snip my ears and "cure" me of being an elf so I can be his mistress, or is he the dude who wants to abduct me to that real-time Gorean commune?

GM: No, no, he's the businessman who wants to use you in that porno trid he's shooting. The one with the quad-armed troll and the catgirl.

Player: Ah. Well, while they're fighting, I try to escape by crawling through that air vent.

GM: You come face to face with a slavering devil rat.

Player: ...

GM: It starts humping your leg.
Fortune
QUOTE (Glyph)
... and some minor biosculpting to improve her physical appearance. The latter only gives the +2 bonus for being attractive ...

Why only +2? The bonus goes up to +3, with no Availability limitations.
Glyph
I was going by the sidebar on pg. 61, instead of the optional rules on pg. 23. But if you use those rules, yeah, she could have up to +3.
Narse
Well, I don't have Aug, but I'm pretty sure I can make a character that throws just about 38 dice for intimidation without most conditionals. And there are a lot of Intimidation conditionals that one can take advantage of. The crux of it is to take 7 Incompetence flaws at chargen for the 7 points of notoriety that act as a positive modifier to your Intimidation pool as long as the subject is aware of your street rep. (Don't ask me why being threatened by a guy who can't fly a plane for the life of him is more scary.)
Aku
because you're afraid if he does get behind the stick he'll have a lot better chance of hitting you as he crashes?
Cain
I always wondered why Incompetencec: Pilot Aerospace would make you scarier. If you've gotten to pilot the space shuttle, it doesn't matter if you're good or bad at it, it's still an impressive feat.

Besides which, unless you're playing a rigger or decker (and even then), by the time you have to pilot the space shuttle, you're already in it so deep that one more obstacle isn't going to matter.
Blade
The problem with the succubus trick is that there's still no dikote in SR4. wink.gif
HentaiZonga
QUOTE (Glyph @ Nov 24 2007, 06:11 PM) *
GM: You come face to face with a slavering devil rat.

Player: ...

GM: It starts humping your leg.


I am now necroing this post to say:

LOVIN' IT.
DocTaotsu
QUOTE (Glyph @ Nov 24 2007, 08:11 PM) *
Of course, for a character intended for play, I would ditch the home ground for the much better genetic heritage (with genetic optimization/Charisma as the "freebie"). Along with lots of other changes. But it's really an exercise like the climber one, a "how many dice can you get for this" build.

Honestly, though, in a game with ganders picking up runaways for bunraku parlors, personafixes that let people turn you into a slave, people who are above the law interacting with people with no rights to speak of, and all of that other distopian goodness... your main ability is making people want you? Talk about a double-edged sword! eek.gif



GM: The huge troll's mouth opens in a grin, exposing his metallic teeth, as he comes over, clearly smitten.

Player: But, but... I was across the room, and I wasn't even trying to seduce him.

GM: You're THAT. GOOD.


I am a terrible GM for not realizing/remembering that charisma is a double edged sword.

I should force my groups pornomancer to take "Avoid Groupies" as an active skill, perhaps a specialization of infiltration.
Stahlseele
anything new in the field of incredible awesome(broken) characters since augmentation/arsenal?
samuelbeckett
Seems to me the Martial Arts rules are ripe with potential - insane melee DVs, insane block/parry/dodge pools, permanent Full Defense, not to mention Riposte/Finishing Move. Melee Adept with Geas combined with choice Biotech combined with choice Martial Arts has gotta be worth an optimise.

With a touch of cheese, an Ork Adept with:
  • Hardliner Gloves (to make his hands count as weapons)
  • Bone Density Aug (to make his hands hit hard)
  • Synaptic Booster 1 (for the extra IP/Reaction)
  • Reflex Recorder (Unarmed Combat)
  • Muscle Toner 1 (extra Agility)
  • Improved Ability (Unarmed Combat) 2
  • Critical Strike 4 (more DV)
  • Penetrating Strike 2 (lovely AP mods)
  • Combat Sense 3 (extra defense)
  • A smattering of Martial Arts to give +4DV and +2 Melee Block and the Two Weapon Style Manuever
  • STR 5, AGL 5(6), REA 4(5) and BOD 7
  • Unarmed Combat (Martial Arts) 9(11)
Can manage a permanent 30 dice Full Melee Parry with no action cost AND an Unarmed Combat attack with 17 dice that inflicts a DV of 14P/-2AP (or around sniper rifle damage). Given generally lower Impact armor ratings, he is going to put someone in a world of hurt if they get within reach.

Granted he may get shot a little getting to the target, but with 11 base Damage Resistance dice plus some nice FFBA/armour combo he could be looking at 30+ Damage Resistance dice...and the extra IP could be used for Full Gymnastics Dodge while he closes, which could be around 15 dice if he also has Gymnastics (Tumbling) 5(7).

All achievable within 400pts...

HentaiZonga
QUOTE (samuelbeckett @ May 1 2008, 01:06 AM) *
Seems to me the Martial Arts rules are ripe with potential - insane melee DVs, insane block/parry/dodge pools, permanent Full Defense, not to mention Riposte/Finishing Move. Melee Adept with Geas combined with choice Biotech combined with choice Martial Arts has gotta be worth an optimise.

With a touch of cheese, an Ork Adept with:
  • Hardliner Gloves (to make his hands count as weapons)
  • Bone Density Aug (to make his hands hit hard)
  • Synaptic Booster 1 (for the extra IP/Reaction)
  • Reflex Recorder (Unarmed Combat)
  • Muscle Toner 1 (extra Agility)
  • Improved Ability (Unarmed Combat) 2
  • Critical Strike 4 (more DV)
  • Penetrating Strike 2 (lovely AP mods)
  • Combat Sense 3 (extra defense)
  • A smattering of Martial Arts to give +4DV and +2 Melee Block and the Two Weapon Style Manuever
  • STR 5, AGL 5(6), REA 4(5) and BOD 7
  • Unarmed Combat (Martial Arts) 9(11)
Can manage a permanent 30 dice Full Melee Parry with no action cost AND an Unarmed Combat attack with 17 dice that inflicts a DV of 14P/-2AP (or around sniper rifle damage). Given generally lower Impact armor ratings, he is going to put someone in a world of hurt if they get within reach.

Granted he may get shot a little getting to the target, but with 11 base Damage Resistance dice plus some nice FFBA/armour combo he could be looking at 30+ Damage Resistance dice...and the extra IP could be used for Full Gymnastics Dodge while he closes, which could be around 15 dice if he also has Gymnastics (Tumbling) 5(7).

All achievable within 400pts...


How did Martial Arts get up to 9(11)? The best you can get is 7(10); with Improved Ability 2, you'll be at 7(9).
samuelbeckett
QUOTE (HentaiZonga @ May 1 2008, 09:10 AM) *
How did Martial Arts get up to 9(11)? The best you can get is 7(10); with Improved Ability 2, you'll be at 7(9).


Just the shorthand I use for Base(Specialization). To be clear, it is Unarmed Combat 6 + Reflex Recorder 1 + Improved Ability 2 = 9 Skill Rating. Then specialization adds 2 to make 9(11).
Prime Mover
Most insane characters were from 1st/2nd edition but probably due to the fact we had tons more play time back then. Guys swimming miles in full gear,throwing blind down long hallways, hitting helicopter pilots with grenades, bull rushing a citymaster bare fisted, team combat against light armor, etc....

Had to go back and read over posts since this ones been gone for awhile, notice SM add on was only few weeks away last fall. See Synner posted some ideas as to what was in it, wondering if be returning any of the lost initiate powers? Possession was one a player had asked about.
HentaiZonga
It appears that Dodgy McDodgerson can get a Melee Gymnastic Dodge dice pool up around 36, what with Move-by-Wire 3, Reakt, and Martial Arts bonuses from Capoeira, Ninjitsu and Firefight. So if you can manage the 24R Availability rating for MbW3, you get someone with 4 IP's, an Initiative of 20 (capping at 21), and 36 to their Dodge pool. And it's all within starting chargen rules, except for the MbW 3.
HentaiZonga
Also, to return to the original post: It seems to me that the SM Spirit Power 'Endowment' opens up Shadowrun to its own special version of Pun-Pun. All the Spirit has to do is use its Endowment power to grant Endowment to all the Adepts, and then have all those Adepts use Endowment to grant their Adept Powers to the uber-character... then that spirit caps it off by Endowing the uber-character with Essence Drain: Karma. wink.gif

Cheops
Full Steampunk outfit, all PPS pieces, full body form fit, gel packs and a troll.
Glyph
The martial arts rules have spawned much debate over how high the DV bonuses can go, whether shock gloves or hardliner gloves allow a martial artist to use two-weapon style with unarmed combat, and whether you can keep "borrowing" extra actions without limit (full defense as an interrupt action, then riposte, then finishing move, etc.), or can only borrow your very next action.

But since this is about creating broken characters, I have only one suggestion for the melee ork. Replace one level of combat sense with one level of counterstrike. Because you will be getting full defense every time you are attacked, which means you will usually be getting quite a few more successes than the attacker does. And the beauty of counterstrike is that it turns all of those successes into extra dice that you can use when you attack.
ArkonC
I don't have the writeup, but a friend of mine once made a Dodge/Soak Troll...
Threw something like 15 dice to dodge (just reaction and combat sense and the like), a lot of acrobatics dice with synthcardium and the like and as if that wasn't enough, he also had tons of body, bone density, dermal seath and mystic armor, rolling something like 20 dice so soak when naked...
Basically, anything that would be able to hurt him, would obliterate any other character...

EDIT: This was out of chargen, so it could even improve...
HentaiZonga
QUOTE (Glyph @ May 1 2008, 06:39 PM) *
The martial arts rules have spawned much debate over how high the DV bonuses can go, whether shock gloves or hardliner gloves allow a martial artist to use two-weapon style with unarmed combat, and whether you can keep "borrowing" extra actions without limit (full defense as an interrupt action, then riposte, then finishing move, etc.), or can only borrow your very next action.

But since this is about creating broken characters, I have only one suggestion for the melee ork. Replace one level of combat sense with one level of counterstrike. Because you will be getting full defense every time you are attacked, which means you will usually be getting quite a few more successes than the attacker does. And the beauty of counterstrike is that it turns all of those successes into extra dice that you can use when you attack.


Question: Where is the "full DV every time you are attacked" coming from?
Glyph
samuelbeckett's melee build uses hardliner gloves to make his hands count as "weapons", so that he can use the two-weapon fighting style maneuver, which lets you use the rules for full defense to parry with the off hand to get full defense that doesn't cost an action. As I said in the first paragraph, it's a rules interpretation that not every GM would allow.

Still, if the GM nixed it, you could change it to dual-wielded Katars. Even making one of them a weapon focus with a personalized grip, it would still be a cheaper build overall. You would lose the insane DV, but roll more to hit, and be able to replace some of the unarmed damage-boosting adept powers with more combat sense.
samuelbeckett
QUOTE (Glyph @ May 2 2008, 02:39 AM) *
The martial arts rules have spawned much debate over how high the DV bonuses can go, whether shock gloves or hardliner gloves allow a martial artist to use two-weapon style with unarmed combat, and whether you can keep "borrowing" extra actions without limit (full defense as an interrupt action, then riposte, then finishing move, etc.), or can only borrow your very next action.

But since this is about creating broken characters, I have only one suggestion for the melee ork. Replace one level of combat sense with one level of counterstrike. Because you will be getting full defense every time you are attacked, which means you will usually be getting quite a few more successes than the attacker does. And the beauty of counterstrike is that it turns all of those successes into extra dice that you can use when you attack.


Nice - add a simple broken Time Geas in (powers don't work between 4:30 and 4:31 in the morning for example) and we can actually up the Combat Sense to 4, up the Penetrating Strike to 3 and add level of Counterstrike. The build also already has Riposte.

So 31 dice on the Full Defense, against even a munched non-adept opponent melee dice pool of 17 to attack, means on average 4 to 5 extra successes. That then means an instant retaliation attack with 23 dice pool. So anyone with less than a 20 dice Full Defense is going to have to resist at least 15P with -3AP. Which is in the realms of insta kill damage on anyone with a Body of 4 or less.

If anyone is interested in tweaking their GM with a melee monster, I'll happily post the full build.

And Glyph is right - the principles work just as well with Katars, and the Martial Arts can be shifted around to give extra Blades DV and Melee Parry rather than Melee Block. You will end up losing at least 7DV, but given the Counterstrike bonuses you would still be laying out silly damage.
Zak
QUOTE (samuelbeckett @ May 2 2008, 02:18 AM) *
If anyone is interested in tweaking their GM with a melee monster, I'll happily post the full build.


DP crunching builds are always welcome smile.gif
HentaiZonga
Question: I'm working with a player's build who is explicitly a weaponless gymnastic fighter (Capoeira and Parkour). Is there any way for her to get a full gymnastic Defense every turn?
Fortune
Well, if you are among those that think that Hardliner Gloves would qualify for the Two-Weapon Style Maneuver, then just have the character wear similar style footwear (or steel-shanked boots) for the same effect.
HentaiZonga
QUOTE (Fortune @ May 2 2008, 01:23 AM) *
Well, if you are among those that think that Hardliner Gloves would qualify for the Two-Weapon Style Maneuver, then just have the character were similar style footwear (or steel-shanked boots) for the same effect.


... that is BEAUTIFUL. Funny enough - the character has already requested orichalcum-heeled (and -toed) stilettos as a Weapon Focus.
samuelbeckett
QUOTE (HentaiZonga @ May 2 2008, 09:15 AM) *
Question: I'm working with a player's build who is explicitly a weaponless gymnastic fighter (Capoeira and Parkour). Is there any way for her to get a full gymnastic Defense every turn?


Unfortunately not - unless she maximises on IP and always sacrifices enough to Full Gymnastics Dodge to cover all her opponents IPs. The only way to get Full Defense up permanently is Two Weapon Style, and that relies on the GM's interpretation of a 'weapon', and only applies to Full Parry actions (so only effective against melee attacks).

The best alternative that doesn't take RAW hard over a barrel would be to create a manuever that mimics Two Weapon Style but allows use of Full Gymnastics Dodge rather than Full Parry, with the explicit condition that it is only effective in melee. As Full Gymnastics Dodge pools can get higher than Full Parry pools it will likely be more powerful than Two Weapon Style, but does require two skills to be advanced rather than one, so it is reasonably balanced.

I wouldn't suggest allowing Full Gymnastics Dodge against all attacks, as that would be far too powerful. With 30+ dice pools being emininently achievable, allowing someone to do that and still retain their full IP for attack would be gamebreaking, as it is rare for attack DP to exceed 20. The character would effectively be invulnerable.
HentaiZonga
QUOTE (samuelbeckett @ May 2 2008, 01:30 AM) *
Unfortunately not - unless she maximises on IP and always sacrifices enough to Full Gymnastics Dodge to cover all her opponents IPs. The only way to get Full Defense up permanently is Two Weapon Style, and that relies on the GM's interpretation of a 'weapon', and only applies to Full Parry actions (so only effective against melee attacks).

The best alternative that doesn't take RAW hard over a barrel would be to create a manuever that mimics Two Weapon Style but allows use of Full Gymnastics Dodge rather than Full Parry, with the explicit condition that it is only effective in melee. As Full Gymnastics Dodge pools can get higher than Full Parry pools it will likely be more powerful than Two Weapon Style, but does require two skills to be advanced rather than one, so it is reasonably balanced.

I wouldn't suggest allowing Full Gymnastics Dodge against all attacks, as that would be far too powerful. With 30+ dice pools being emininently achievable, allowing someone to do that and still retain their full IP for attack would be gamebreaking, as it is rare for attack DP to exceed 20. The character would effectively be invulnerable.


Well, as mentioned above, they've got a pretty interesting idea for a 'Weapon' (and are already willing to take the very specific 'Exotic Melee Weapon: High-Heeled Shoes' Skill for it); considering that Full Defense explicitly sets Full Gymnastics Dodge as one of its options, I think I'm going to go with your second approach. Rather than "create a maneuver to mimic Two Weapon Style", though, I'm just going to rule that Two Weapon Style already covers this, but the player has to pick an explicit type of Full Defense (either Full Dodge, Full Parry or Gymnastic Dodge) when purchasing Two Weapon Style. Also, I'm not sure that allowing it to be used outside of melee is overpowered, considering that as you said, they have to max out two skills, and they already have the -3 'Defender in Melee Combat' penalty and have to choose a -2 off-hand (off-foot?) penalty for either their attack or their defense. Even with an insane Agility+Melee, Reaction+Dodge, and Gymnastics (let's say all absurdly hard-maxed at 15+9, 10+9, and 10), that's (10+10-3)=17 dice to defend with, and (15+9-2)=22 dice to attack with. Throw in the Capoeira and Ninjitsu bonuses to Gymnastic Dodge and you're at 19 dice vs. ranged (although you can get up to a pretty hefty 34 Gymnastic Dodge pool vs. melee attacks). Throw in Reakt and you're at 21 vs. Ranged and 36 vs. melee, which is starting to get absurd, but still nowhere near 30+ for ranged attacks, and we're talking about someone who's got Genetic Optimization and hard-max on Reaction, Aptitude and hard-max on Gymnastics, and hard-max on Dodge with 3 dice worth of bonus in each. Of course, since she'll never not be Gymnastic Dodging, we can take that as her Dodge specialization, pretty much guaranteeing another +2 to her melee dodge (to 38). So she becomes pretty damn near unstoppable in melee, but still more 'terrifying' than 'invincible' when attacked at range.

Question - by Full Gymnastics Dodge, do you mean Reaction + Dodge + Gymnastics? Because it's pretty clear to me that that's not how Gymnastic Dodge works - on pg.150 of SR4, it says "Characters skilled in Gymnastics can spend their action flipping, rolling, cartwheeling, etc. out of danger, and may add Gymnastics skill to their dice pool against either ranged or melee attacks". I'm pretty sure "dice pool" refers to "the dice pool they would otherwise be rolling", which in the case of a ranged attack is just Reaction.
Fortune
Even if I were to allow Melee Weapons to apply to Two-Weapon Style, I would never allow the Maneuver to grant free Full Defense outside of Melee. If the character wanted to use Full Defense against ranged attacks, he would have to use the normal rules, including giving up all other non-Free Actions while doing so. In other words, no free attacks while using Full Defense against ranged attacks.
HentaiZonga
QUOTE (Fortune @ May 2 2008, 01:48 AM) *
Even if I were to allow Melee Weapons to apply to Two-Weapon Style, I would never allow the Maneuver to grant free Full Defense outside of Melee. If the character wanted to use Full Defense against ranged attacks, he would have to use the normal rules, including giving up all other non-Free Actions while doing so. In other words, no free attacks while using Full Defense against ranged attacks.


*nods* that sounds generally reasonable.

... hrm. I just realized - I completely forgot about the Combat Sense power, which is going to add another +(Magic) dice to all Dodge tests. So somewhere around 25 vs. melee, and up into the 40's at range. Wow.
samuelbeckett
OK, here is that melee Ork build in all its glory...weak spots include the lack of Edge and no Infiltration skills, although a little karma focused into that post char-gen should shore him up. Any further optimisation would be welcomed...

Norris

Build Points:
400

Race: Ork (20 BP)

Attributes: (180 BP)

Bod: 7
Agi: 5 (6)
Rea: 4 (5)
Str: 5
Cha: 2
Int: 3
Log: 2
Wil: 3
Edge: 1

Essence: 4.0
Magic: 4
Initiative: 7 [8]
Passes: 2

Active Skills: (78 BP)

Gymnastics (Tumbling): 4 (6)
Unarmed Combat (Martial Arts): 6[9] (11)
Con (Fast Talk): 2 (4)
Pilot (Groundcraft): 1 (3)
Perception (Visual): 4 (6)

Knowledge Skills:

Pit Fighting (Aztlan): 3 (5)
Sports (MMA): 1 (3)
Seattle Street Gangs: 1
Security Design (Physical): 1 (3)

Languages

Spanish: N
English: 4
Or'zet: 2

Qualities: (0 BP)

Adept (5 BP)
Martial Arts:
Karate (15 BP; +1 Unarmed Combat DV, +2 Melee Block)
Boxing (10 BP; +2 Unarmed Combat DV)
Wildcat (5 BP; +1 Unarmed Combat DV)

Simsense Vertigo (-10 BP)
Sensitive System (-15 BP)
Spirit Bane (Watcher Spirits, -10 BP)
Geas (Time; Affects all adept powers; Broken from 04:30 to 05:00 in the morning due to 'bio-rhythms')

Manuevers: (12 BP)

Two Weapon Style; Riposte; Finishing Move; Groundfighting; Watchful Guard; Kick; Blind Fighting

Contacts: (8 BP)

Corporate Wage Mage (C5/L3)

Adept Powers: (4 PP, equivalent 5.25 PP with Geas)

Improved Ability (Unarmed Combat) 2 (1 PP)
Combat Sense 4 (2 PP)
Critical Strike 4 (1 PP)
Penetrating Strike 3 (0.75 PP)
Counterstrike 1 (0.5 PP)

Resources: (39 BP)

195,000 Y

Bioware: (2 Essence; 35.6 BP of the resources)

Bone Density Augmentation 4
Synaptic Booster 1
Muscle Toner 1
Reflex Recorder (Unarmed Combat)

Lifestyle:

Medium (1 month prepaid)

Gear:

Sony Emperor Commlink with Renraku Icho O/S (Response 2, Signal 3, Firewall 2, System 2)
- Skinlink, Subvocal Mic, Biometric Reader
Hardliner Gloves
Armour for runs:
- Industrious Winterized Coverall with PPP Arm, Leg, Forearm, Vitals and Shin protection (B8/I9 with R2 Fire Resistance, Chem Resistance and Insulation), over Full FFBA with R4 Fire Resistance and Insulation (B6/I2) - total B14/I11
Armour for bodyguarding/discreet runs:
- Synergist Business Line Suit (Suit Jacket, Slacks, High Collar Shirt; B5/I3), over Full FFBA with R4 Fire Resistance and Insulation (B6/I2) - total B11/I5
Fake SIN (R3, Credit Account with 1300 Y)
Medium Lifestyle (1 month prepaid)

Combat Statistics:

Unarmed Combat Attack DP: 17
Melee Block DP: 22
Full Parry DP: 31
Ranged Dodge DP: 9
Full Gymnastics Dodge DP: 15

Unarmed Combat Base DV: 14P/-3 AP

Damage Resistance (best armour)
Base DP: 11
Ballistic DP: 25
Impact DP: 22

Background: (complete rubbish made up of the top of my head to give him some reason for being...)

Born in Aztlan in a slum, parents minor league criminals who died when he was 10. Soon realised he was bigger, stronger and faster than others, taken under the wing of a criminal who organised street and pit fights. Rapidly proved himself an able fighter, training in a variety of styles, killing opponents with ease and making his 'owner' a lot of money. When his 'owner' realised Norris's powers failed in the early hours of the morning, he arranged for a chop-doc to implant some bioware to enhance his capabilites during those times, and to counter the enhanced individuals Norris was increasingly meeting as he rose up the pit fighting ranks.

A wage mage with a thing for gambling on pit fights soon noticed him, and began to bet heavily on him. However, an attack of conscience, combined with thoughts that Norris may make a useful asset for his corp, led him to contact Norris and conspire to have him kill his 'owner' and escape the pit fighting life to come to Seattle and work as a close protective bodyguard.

Attempting to settle in Seattle with a fake ID, Norris began to work as a bodyguard for a Johnson. However, an unfortunate incident where 'excessive' force was used led to Norris's employer deciding he may be better as a deniable asset than a bodyguard. Norris is content to let others be the 'brains' of any run, instead providing muscle and being the go to guy for 'weapon free' wetwork. He feels a loyalty to both the wage mage who freed him and the Johnson he used to bodyguard for, but is beginning to understand the concept of 'honour amongst thieves' and is starting to extend his trust to other runners. Norris is quiet and thoughtful unless provoked, and is eager to develop more knowledge and skills outside of unarmed combat.
samuelbeckett
QUOTE (HentaiZonga @ May 2 2008, 09:43 AM) *
Question - by Full Gymnastics Dodge, do you mean Reaction + Dodge + Gymnastics? Because it's pretty clear to me that that's not how Gymnastic Dodge works - on pg.150 of SR4, it says "Characters skilled in Gymnastics can spend their action flipping, rolling, cartwheeling, etc. out of danger, and may add Gymnastics skill to their dice pool against either ranged or melee attacks". I'm pretty sure "dice pool" refers to "the dice pool they would otherwise be rolling", which in the case of a ranged attack is just Reaction.


Gymnastics Dodge is an option only for Full Defense. And as you pointed out, it adds Gymnastics to the base dice pool for ranged defense, which is Reaction. So Reaction + Gymnastics. However, with hard maxed Reaction, hard maxed Gymnastics, Combat Sense and the numerous things that add dice pool modifiers to Gymnastics, you could easily achieve a DP of 30+ for Ranged Defense (10 Reaction, 12 Gymnastics with Specialization, 6 Combat Sense, 2 Reakt, 1 Enhanced Articulation, 3 Synthacardium is 34 DP, not all achievable at char gen but 30 + is eminently doable).
HentaiZonga
QUOTE (samuelbeckett @ May 2 2008, 02:35 AM) *
Gymnastics Dodge is an option only for Full Defense. And as you pointed out, it adds Gymnastics to the base dice pool for ranged defense, which is Reaction. So Reaction + Gymnastics. However, with hard maxed Reaction, hard maxed Gymnastics, Combat Sense and the numerous things that add dice pool modifiers to Gymnastics, you could easily achieve a DP of 30+ for Ranged Defense (10 Reaction, 12 Gymnastics with Specialization, 6 Combat Sense, 2 Reakt, 1 Enhanced Articulation, 3 Synthacardium is 34 DP, not all achievable at char gen but 30 + is eminently doable).


Hrm. I did forget the Synthcardium. Also, you forgot Neo-EPO and Synch.

Let's see how this tallies:
Reaction = 10
Gymnastics = 10 (+2 Specialization)
Combat Sense = 6
Improved Sense (Balance) = 1
Reakt = 2
Neo-EPO = 1
Synch = 1
Enhanced Articulation = 1
Synthcardium = 3
Martial Arts (Capoeira) - Gymnastic Dodge = 1
Martial Arts (Ninjitsu) - Gymnastic Dodge = 1

So we get 10+10+2+6+1+2+1+1+1+3+1+1 = 39. Impressive.

Of course, to get this, we need:
-- Pre-chargen: 200 BP --
Adept = 5 BP
Reaction 7 = 75 BP
Magic 1 = 20 BP (raised to 3, then dropped back to 1 due to Essence loss)
Aptitude: Gymnastics = 10 BP
Gymnastics 7 = 32 BP
Gymnastics Specialization: Tumbling = 2 BP
Martial Arts: Capoeira - Gymnastic Dodge = 5 BP
Martial Arts: Ninjitsu - Gymnastic Dodge = 5 BP
Martial Arts Maneuver: Two Weapon Style = 2 BP
Martial Arts Maneuver: Evade = 2 BP
Genetic Optimization: Reaction = (0.2 Essence, 45K Nuyen) = 9 BP
Enhanced Articulation = (0.3 Essence, 40K Nuyen) = 8 BP
Synthcardium 3 = (0.3 Essence, 30K Nuyen) = 6 BP
Reakt = (0.4 Essence, 30K Nuyen) = 6 BP
Neo-EPO = (0.2 Essence, 25K Nuyen) = 5 BP
Synch = (0.3 Essence, 30K Nuyen) = 6 BP
Reflex Recorder (Gymnastics) = (0.1 Essence, 10K Nuyen) = 2 BP
Combat Sense 1 = 0.5 Power
Improved Ability (Gymnasics) 1 = 0.25 Power
Improved Sense (Balance) = 0.25 Power

-- Post-chargen: 81 Karma, 480K Nuyen --
Magic 2 = 6 Karma (pre-Synaptic Booster)
Synaptic Booster 3 Alpha = (1.2 Essence, 480K Nuyen)
Magic 3 = (6+9=15 Karma, +2 Power)
Combat Sense 3 = 1.0 Power
Improved Ability (Gymnasics) 3 = 0.5 Power
(Total Leftover Power: 0.5)
Initiation x3 = (8+10+12=30 Karma, +3 Power)
Magic 6 = (12+15+18=30 Karma, +3 Power)
Combat Sense 6 = 1.5 Power
(Total Leftover Power: 5.0)

Your Essence costs are 0.2+0.1+1.2+0.3+0.3+0.4+0.2+0.3=3.0; dropping you to 3.0 Essence and a max Magic of 3, hence the necessity to Initiate 3 times. I'm assuming everything but the Synaptic Booster is picked up at chargen (making the chargen Essence 4.2); the Booster gets bought after Magic is raised to 2, dropping Essence to 3.0 and Magic back to 1. Then up Magic to 3, Initiate 3 times, and up Magic to 6. Gain Power Points during each Initiation, and you have 9 total Power Points to play with. 4 of those get eaten up with 6 levels of Combat Sense, 3 levels of Improved Ability (Gymnastics), and Improved Sense (Balance). You now have a ranged Dodge score of 39.

Did I do all that right?
samuelbeckett
Would need to look in more detail, but I think your karma amounts are a little off - particularly unless I am missing something the initiation is 10 + (grade x 3), so 13+16+19 or 48 karma just for initiation to grade 3 - unless you were using some discounts due to group initiation?
HentaiZonga
QUOTE (samuelbeckett @ May 2 2008, 03:40 AM) *
Would need to look in more detail, but I think your karma amounts are a little off - particularly unless I am missing something the initiation is 10 + (grade x 3), so 13+16+19 or 48 karma just for initiation to grade 3 - unless you were using some discounts due to group initiation?


Group & Ordeal all the way, baby!
Fortune
As FrankTrollman and others have pointed out, the rules literally state that it is the reduction from Groups and Ordeals that is rounded up. As such, when a character Initiates for the first time with both a Group and an Ordeal, the normal cost of 13 Karma is reduced by 40% (round up), or 5.6 rounded to 6, for a final cost of 7 Karma. The second Initiation Grade, normally costing 16 Karma with the same reduction of 40% would result in a Karma cost of 9 (16 - (6.4 rounded up to 7)). And so on. smile.gif
suppenhuhn
erm there is no dodging (or whatever you call it) specialization for gymnastics.
HentaiZonga
QUOTE (Fortune @ May 2 2008, 04:04 AM) *
As FrankTrollman and others have pointed out, the rules literally state that it is the reduction from Groups and Ordeals that is rounded up. As such, when a character Initiates for the first time with both a Group and an Ordeal, the normal cost of 13 Karma is reduced by 40% (round up), or 5.6 rounded to 6, for a final cost of 7 Karma. The second Initiation Grade, normally costing 16 Karma with the same reduction of 40% would result in a Karma cost of 9 (16 - (6.4 rounded up to 7)). And so on. smile.gif


Ooooooooooh!
HentaiZonga
QUOTE (suppenhuhn @ May 2 2008, 04:19 AM) *
erm there is no dodging (or whatever you call it) specialization for gymnastics.


Right, which means it depends how you describe the action. I used the 'Tumbling' specialization, since it's the most likely one to be useful (come on - who *dances* out of the way of bullets?)
samuelbeckett
QUOTE (suppenhuhn @ May 2 2008, 12:19 PM) *
erm there is no dodging (or whatever you call it) specialization for gymnastics.


Maybe not, but there is a 'Tumbling' specialization, and as Gymnastics Dodge states you are tumbling, a lenient GM may allow it.

Most of the stuff in my 'Norris' post and HentaiZonga's posts could be regarded as borderline abuse of the RAW and would probably not fly with most GMs, but I thought the point of this thread was to point out 'optimized' characters who are potentially broken.

That said, I probably would allow the Tumbling specialization in my games, but would question some of the Gymnastics DP mods (i.e. Synthacardium, Neo-EPO etc.) - but strict interpretation of the RAW would seem to allow them.
HentaiZonga
QUOTE (HentaiZonga @ May 2 2008, 04:51 AM) *
Right, which means it depends how you describe the action. I used the 'Tumbling' specialization, since it's the most likely one to be useful (come on - who *dances* out of the way of bullets?) Although, what the player really wants is a 'Parkour' specialization. wink.gif

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