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Pendaric
Am running a prison break/rescue plot line for my group, so I have had occasion to scour both my and my player SR collection on the subject of law and the prison system.
Most is in SotA 64 Lone Star section covering the UCAS and CAS systems.
My basic gripe is that it fails to deliver the majestic Orwellian dystopia, specifically in the legal system portion.
Why create a criminal underclass with curtailed rights (probationary citizens aka SINless) and then proved them the full rights of the constitution given to a full citizen?
Why would a SINless individual receive due process basically?

Is this FanPro wimping out or is it including due process for involved game play?
If the the former, what should the law/SOP be for the SINless criminals in the legal system.

You do not have a right to council.
You do not have the right to the fifth amendment.
You do not get a phone call.
You do not get a jury of your peers. (Be cause your peers are all criminal scum)

etc ?
nezumi
I generally assume that people in the UCAS at least like to feel like they're civil, and the laws need to provide for those cases where a person who is actually important, but happens not to have a SIN, is brought to court.

However:

You do not have a right to council.
- I'm sure they allow a free lawyer because it speeds things up. Otherwise the defendant just wants to talk, talk, talk. The lawyer can push him to a plea deal or to throw himself on the mercy of the court. Of course, said lawyer isn't especially interested in actually gathering or presenting evidence or anything, since he gets paid the same regardless. But he'll help make sure the proceedings are followed properly to avoid a mistrial, and that his client is properly kept under control.

You do not have the right to the fifth amendment.
- They get a trial, if that's what you're saying. It's just the judge can draw on his professional experience, which happens to be that in all the previous cases he's presided over, the SINless was found guilty and properly convicted.

You do not get a phone call.
- There is no right to a phone call, that's generally a courtesy extended by the local police department. Of course, people with money get more courtesies. SINless scum get a cell.

You do not get a jury of your peers. (Be cause your peers are all criminal scum)
- The jury must be registered citizens - aka people with SINs. No court of law I've ever heard of had a jury of illegal immigrants. However, the UCAS Bill of Rights only extends to UCAS citizens (people with SINs), therefore there is no guaranteed fifth amendment like we know it, nor a right to a jury by one's peers. There IS a right to a fair trial, however, under a registered judge. I suppose one could argue that anyone tried by UCAS law has right to a jury, however most states also have laws that say certain cases are too small to be worth bothering a jury (traffic violations and violations under a cost of $5 or $10k are regular examples). On the one hand, most crimes SINless are accused of will be under that monetary threshold, so they can be dealth with relatively quickly. On the other hand, in those cases where they aren't, there may be a law saying 'all the provisions of the fifth amendment apply except X when applied to non-citizens'. Either one wouldn't surprise me.
Fortune
The question should be about what happens before any arrest, because as soon as a SINless person is arrested (not merely convicted), they are no longer SINless, as a SIN is immediately provided.

This criminal SIN would be treated exactly the same as any other normal SIN of a person convicted of a crime. The difference would be that the formerly SINless person will retain a criminal SIN afterwards even if he is acquitted, whereas a SINner who is arrested but not convicted will have the newly-acquired criminal portion of his SIN suppressed (but probably not eliminated from the records).
Pendaric
The point I am making here is why does a SINless individual gain more rights by breaking the law?
Yes the UCAS has a large junk of the Canadian and USA constitution in its laws but the SIN Act of Congress surely should supercede it in regards to 'probationary' citizens.
Once given a criminal SIN for the ease of the system, surely a more streamlined and less 'fair' method of processing should be in place for reasons of economy.
It does state in SotA 64 to its credit, that you need to pay for a lawyer but when your a walking breach of the law thanks to your 'wear, why take you to trial when they have you banged to rights?
From what is stated in the BBB to the SotA entry there is a definate change of tone.
kzt
Basically you are sinless by choice (or your parents choice) and you have to work to remain that way. The government doesn't like people who are not in the data bases. They can't collect taxes, etc, etc. So they want people to have a SIN.
Slump
QUOTE
The point I am making here is why does a SINless individual gain more rights by breaking the law?


I don't think they do. At least, I've never read anything that says they do.

Consider this: In the united states, you can aquire a social security number, even if you're not a citizen. It's used for pretty much the same purpose -- tracking your taxes, your social security input, and who you are (as far as the united states and it's financial market is concerned). Having a SSN doesn't mean your a citizen. It doesn't even mean you're here legally. All it means is that you have a number asigned to you. Heck, you can even legally aquire a second social security number if you want. Mostly, people do that if they are having a huge problem with identity theft, or have some issue with the numbers that comprise your ssn (like it has 666, or 13, or it's only a few digits off from your siblings, and you want to differenciate more).

So what does this all mean? Your ssn is just a number, just like your SIN is just a number (or letters, or something). You get a criminal SIN to make their bookkeeping easier, since they already have a database field for "SIN."
kzt
QUOTE (Slump)
Having a SSN doesn't mean your a citizen.  It doesn't even mean you're here legally. 

A non-citizen can't get an SSN without a visa that allows you to work. You can get a Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) instead. Which seems to just mean that if you get grabbed for an immigration violation they can't come after you for not paying taxes.

nezumi
Nor can you get a second SSN. There are several cases of individuals who wanted ones for the reasons you stated explicitly, but were not granted such. The government is not capable of handling people with TWO special numbers.

I've not heard anyone claim that not having a SIN is a choice. Quite to the contrary, everything I've read indicates that those without a SIN are pretty upset because of it. They can't own property, they can't legally buy anything, they can't have a job. Who would choose to have that? Sure you can get a criminal SIN, but most people who get that don't manage to breed afterwards.

As has been said, a criminal SIN is just a number to note firstly how long you're supposed to be in braindance, and secondly that you should pay taxes. Everyone in the UCAS has certain basic rights, including to a right to a trial for a crime (not saying that right isn't regularly ignored, just that it's on the books). They do *NOT* have a right to own property, buy or sell, etc. That is reserved for citizens. So a criminal SIN is just attaching a number to someone who is already *ahem* exercising his rights. I don't know that a criminal SIN allows you to buy property and so on, but I would assume that it is obvious it is a criminal SIN, so a lot of people will still decline to do business with you on those grounds.
hyzmarca
You can get a second SSN. It is rather easy to do, in fact. You simply need to use falsified identity documents to obtain it. This is probably illegal, however. The Social Security Administration doesn't check very hard. The last time I got my card replaced the only ID I had on me was a library card (it was merely a plain piece of paper with some library info printed on it and my name written on it with an ink pen laminated between two pieces of clear plastic, there was no picture and no anti-counterfeiting features). It was accepted without hesitation.
Mercer
A SIN isn't just a UCAS citizenship; it more like citizenship in the recognized world. The System in "SIN" blankets nations and megacorporations; your citizenship in a particular one is a separate issue. I think there are two types of SINless in SR, those people who chose to go off the grid and live their lives outside the law, and those the system doesn't particuarly want. If the governements and corporations wanted to they could roll into the barrens, round up the squatters and assign them all numbers and release them back into the wild, like ducks, but they don't. Because 1) If those people were in the system, that would mean they existed and someone might have to do something about them (provide food, shelter, clean water) and 2) If they're broke, they don't have anything to tax anyway. A SINless squatter can't legally own land, but even if he could his total assets are measured in the contents of a shopping cart. SINless people put into the system (they buy things and pay sales tax where it exists, or the money they pay goes to people who do pay taxes), and they don't take anything out.

Law enforcement is less about the bottom line, in that if they arrest someone, they're going to want to find them again, so its understandable they give numbers to identify the people they deal with. If you don't give someone a number and a way to track it, every offense will be their first offense.

A SINless person who gets arrested will be assigned a SIN, but they might not get it right away. The book (Lone Star Sourcebook maybe?) says its a part of the booking process, but I think its fair to assume there are times when the protocol is not followed exactly. Lone Star investigators (or any corporate or gov't officer, depending on who's running the show) might decide to delay that booking process if leverage or coercion is needed. Since the person doesn't exist until they say he exists, someone could linger in custody with no rights at all.

In the UCAS, I guess the hierarchy would look something like this:

UCAS Citizens have full rights.

SINned Non-Citizens (citizens elsewhere) probably have pretty much the same rights. They might face deportation for crimes (even misdemeanors) instead of the usual punishments, but largely they get the same treatment.

SINless (citizens of nowhere) aren't in the system at all. Technically, they don't have rights because they don't exist until they're in the system, but they get put in the system pretty easily. It's still a crime to murder a SINless person, for example. The SIN might be applied posthumously, but they'll get one. (The difficulties in investigating the murder of the SINless will still be steep, which is what makes them good targets for serial, spree and thrill killers.)

Basically, everybody has rights (unless they're a shapeshifter or something and the governing body considers them wildlife), but in dystopian cyberpunk settings, denying people their basic human rights is pretty easy.
Fortune
QUOTE (Mercer)
A SINless person who gets arrested will be assigned a SIN, but they might not get it right away. The book (Lone Star Sourcebook maybe?) says its a part of the booking process, but I think its fair to assume there are times when the protocol is not followed exactly. Lone Star investigators (or any corporate or gov't officer, depending on who's running the show) might decide to delay that booking process if leverage or coercion is needed. Since the person doesn't exist until they say he exists, someone could linger in custody with no rights at all.

In my opinion, there is too much oversight for a SINless person to remain in custody for any significant amount of time before being issued a SIN. I am not talking about sitting in the back of a cop car or being muscled in an alleyway, but if someone is brought in to the station (or whatever it is called in 2070), then the booking process (and issuance of a SIN) would begin right away.
Kagetenshi
Wildlife have rights legal rights too, at least anywhere with animal cruelty laws.

Fortune: it's been a while since I perused Lone Star, but why do you suggest there's significant oversight? Am I forgetting some very significant things there?

~J
Mercer
QUOTE (Fortune)
In my opinion, there is too much oversight for a SINless person to remain in custody for any significant amount of time before being issued a SIN. I am not talking about sitting in the back of a cop car or being muscled in an alleyway, but if someone is brought in to the station (or whatever it is called in 2070), then the booking process (and issuance of a SIN) would begin right away.

On the show Law & Order I would agree with you. On the show The Shield, its a bit dodgier. If there's one thing Lone Star can probably do, its get around the oversight when they need to. Two beat cops who arrest a squatter for public urination-- no leeway. A Lone Star special ops team who take down a shadowrunner and want to interrogate him-- much more leeway.

Kag: Wildlife do have legal rights, but not the same a human being. (My dog cannot own property.) Granted, in SR the line between metahuman and animal might be blurrier, but most things will probably have to prove sapience to even be considered. It wasn't that long ago that ghouls had a bounty on them in the UCAS, which basically meant they were considered dangerous wildlife.
Fortune
I don't mean oversight from Lone Star (or Knight Errant) themselves. I mean that Big Brother is everywhere, and there are too many cameras around to pull this kind of stuff on a regular basis. I am not saying that it never happens, but that it would be somewhat rare, as not a whole lot is gained by just locking away a SINless person instead of just giving him a SIN and doing it properly. If you didn't want to process the criminal, then he probably would have been dealt with in the field, where there is no need to issue him a SIN, or deal with the paperwork.
Fortune
QUOTE (Mercer)
A Lone Star special ops team who take down a shadowrunner and want to interrogate him-- much more leeway.

In which case the 'shadowrunner' would probably be taken somewhere other than the station house for questioning (like a safe house or the like). As I said above, this kind of thing may very well happen on occasion, but it isn't going to be the general rule, as there is usually no advantage to be gained by doing so.
Mercer
Not to make it a political argument, but its not like similar things don't go on today.

And saying "there's usually no advantage to be gained by doing so," implies that when there is an advantage to be gained, it'll be done in a heartbeat.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Fortune @ Nov 25 2007, 10:18 PM)
I don't mean oversight from Lone Star (or Knight Errant) themselves. I mean that Big Brother is everywhere, and there are too many cameras around to pull this kind of stuff on a regular basis.

I expect cameras (at least properly-operating ones) are few and far between in Lone Star stations, probably for exactly that reason.

Big Brother is actually far from watching you in Shadowrun—it has historically lacked that kind of monolithic power pretty much everywhere throughout Seattle*. Out on the street, megacorps and governments vie with each other, and none of them want their actions too well-recorded. In non-extraterritorial buildings it's the same. Even in extraterritorial buildings it's the same, only instead of megacorps and governments it's departments and ambitious ladder-climbers.

~J

*: and some of its least interesting settings have been created by ignoring this, creating areas where Shadowrunners end their useful lives by revealing any sort of information about themselves whatsoever.
kzt
The problem is that the managers of Lone Star want to know what is going on. Managers hate surprises. So I'd expect cameras everywhere. It's not like the FOP will challenge this, now is it?
Mercer
For some reason, I find the argument that my rights can't be denied because Big Brother is watching to be somewhat less than comforting.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (kzt)
The problem is that the managers of Lone Star want to know what is going on.

I don't buy it. My usual source for excerpts from Lone Star is unavailable, but I seem to remember the place being described as very chaotic and full of infighting, exactly the sort of place where it may be more important to keep your peers from knowing what you're doing than it is to know exactly what your subordinates are doing.

~J
Fortune
But what is the point of doing so? What does Lone Star gain? Outside of the occasional shadowrunner that might be of some future use, there is no point just holding Joe SINless for days on end without processing him. Even if we only look at the bottom line, an unprocessed criminal isn't worth any money to Lone Star, whereas each processed SINner (whether formerly SINless or not) that is being held for trial is money in the bank (literally as well as figuratively).
Mercer
QUOTE (Fortune)
But what is the point of doing so? What does Lone Star gain? Outside of the occasional shadowrunner that might be of some future use, there is no point just holding Joe SINless for days on end without processing him.

If there is no point in doing so, they don't do it. If Lone Star has nothing to gain, they don't do it. But it remains an option. And if there is a point, and if they do have something to gain, then of course, they'll do it.
ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE (Fortune)
But what is the point of doing so? What does Lone Star gain? Outside of the occasional shadowrunner that might be of some future use, there is no point just holding Joe SINless for days on end without processing him. Even if we only look at the bottom line, an unprocessed criminal isn't worth any money to Lone Star, whereas each processed SINner (whether formerly SINless or not) that is being held for trial is money in the bank (literally as well as figuratively).

Organlegging. It tends to be more lucrative than holding onto a SINless schmuck for the government. And you don't risk them escaping or what-not.
Mercer
That's a little grim for the UCAS or Lone Star, but with less reputable governments, corporations and organizations, I could see it.

There are a host of other reasons a corp might not register a SINless captive, including to use as slave labor (probably not in Seattle, or test subjects in "clinical trials", or food for ghoul guards or the vampire VP of Human Resources. I guess a lot of it depends on where you are being arrested and who's arresting you.
Ravor
Too grim ... Lone Star ... reputable?
kzt
It's the new and improved Lone Star. They've reformed since the scandals. And Law Suits. And Consent Decree. And the court appointed monitors....
Mercer
They have to at least appear to be upholding the law. If it turns out Lone Star is organlegging squatters for profit (or even just for fun), they're going to lose law enforcement contracts throughout the UCAS (although they might be able to start charging more in New York).

Edit: Scooped.
ShadowDragon8685
They don't have to stop...

They just have to stop the press from getting out. I mean, really, what does the UCAS care if Lone Star organlegs off the SINless for more whack than they'd pay them to detain them and try them? It saves them the administrative overhead, and they can profit by it too if the court monitors are actually there to ensure that they get their cut.

And of course, with official cooperation in the matter, L.S. and the UCAS can join forces in making sure that nobody widebands the matter...
Mercer
But that's where the Big Brother angle would bite them on the ass, because there are enough people that want Lone Star to fail (like say, any other security company out there) that they couldn't get away with it. Actually, even a whiff of a scandal of this magnitude would probably hurt Lone Star's chances.

I could buy a few isolated incidents, or even some crooked cops running an organlegging operation on the side, but that'd be about it.
nezumi
I imagine Lone Star OFFICERS may engage in organ-legging. They get paid just about nothing and no one would miss a SINless. The problem is, if they're ever caught, Lone Star corporation is dropping them like a dead whore in a cheap motel. I imagine that organ-legging, enforcement money and so on are pretty regular sources of income for Lone Star officers out on the beat, but not for the corporation except in that the corporation can get away with paying their officers less due to the higher availability of side-work available for said officers.

Lone Star as a corporation is very interested in keeping its prisons at or close to capacity. It gets paid by the state for every prisoner in there. Unfortunately, prisoners sometimes die, which creates vacancies. Lone Star then has to either push a new legitimate defendant and case through the courts, do an underhanded swaparoo of bodies, or find a hot body to fill the role for an open or artificially created case. I imagine all three of these options are attractive (the last one is the most attractive, since it gets the most good publicity for the least work. If you look similar to another criminal in your area, keep your head low or you'll get grabbed as being more convenient!)

Organ-legging on the corporate scale MAY be involved when people die while in prison, and their parts are then sold to hospitals. If that's the case, Lone Star may be interested in actually increasing their turn-over rate, however I would assume whether that's an option or not would depend on local ordinances.
Paradigm
I'd imagine the consequences of being caught by Lone Star would vary on a day to day basis. Depending on 3 main factors
1. the cops in question that get you and how they handle things
2. whoever's got the decision power in the office at the time you get caught
3. how obviously illegal your mods/gear are.

Some cops will do things one way, some will do it another. You might be cultivated as an informant by one and simply locked up by the next. If you're brought in you can be used as a deniable asset in exchange for not being put in the books, you can be put in the books. If you're put in the books, you get the criminal SIN flaw, basically and have to deal with all the nasty concequences.

If karma catches up with you for all the bad stuff you did, not only will you be connected to a crime, but they'll wrap you up with a nice pink ribbon and send you off (without entering you into the books) to that corp whose prototype you stole for nothing but a bit of good will and more readily available help if they ever need Corp X's cooperation in a case. It's still a corp looking out for the bottom line, after all.
Pendaric
There are some good points here. Perhaps LoneStar and the UCAS law system could organleg legally.
You the SINless criminal are charged with x, there is a five thousand nuyen fine. Can you pay? Right, we're taking one of your kidneys in lieu of cash to pay for your crime. Like seizing assets when there is only the body left to the criminal.
If it is a matter of choice for the sentenced individual, like a plea bargin, it might sneak passed the Fifth Amendment cruel and unusual punishments.

As to due process, I think Nezumi makes a good argument for the arreignment, trial and sentencing to be performed in one sitting, by a licenced judge, for SINless criminals.
If you can afford a lawyer, they can gather evidence and present it to the court in this one time opportunity to clear/mitigate the charges.

Edited for spelling.
nezumi
I suspect the UCAS public would find the idea of organlegging from living people in lieu of paying a fine unreasonable. HOWEVER, I think they would be more than willing to use organlegging as a method of recouping costs from people on death row or people who die while incarcerated, in cases where said person does not have a legal representative who says anything to the contrary. In other words, if you go to jail and no one is recognized as family (and how could they be, without SINs), you become a charge of the state even as an adult, and the state thinks it wouldn't mind selling your organs to a body bank when you die.

I also imagine financial pressures would encourage most modern states to reinstate limited medical experimentation in prisoners. It would be wholly voluntary, and would reduce prison sentences significantly. In fact, considering how many biotech firms have big lobbyists, I almost can't imagine the UCAS being set up any other way. Testing is appropriate to the crime - a series of blood tests and uncomfortable physical tests like being dunked in freezing cold water could be worth up to five years prison time, assuming five years is already spent in prison. Something more dangerous like being the test subject for pain killers at twice the recommended dose could be worth 7-10 years. Tests almost guaranteed to be deadly, such as being injected with active HMHVV to test out a possible vaccine could commute a life or death sentence (assuming you survive).

This was done previously in the US but discontinued when, perhaps not surprisingly, convicts started getting very serious medical complications from what were supposed to be 'minor' tests.
Kagetenshi
I agree only for sufficiently small values of "wholly" and "voluntary".

~J
nezumi
From a political standpoint it's voluntary, I mean. Officially speaking, any prisoner has the OPTION of doing this or not. However, when individuals are required, Bubba the love troll or a Lone Star officer with an anger problem is sent out to drum up some local support. You COULD always choose not to partake in the study Lone Star is getting a few million to support, just like you COULD choose to drown yourself in your own commode.
Fortune
QUOTE (Pendaric)
... the SINless criminal ...

There is no such thing as a SINless criminal! Either the person is SINless, or they are a criminal, which automatically comes with a brand new SIN as soon as you are charged. You can't be both.
Pendaric
I know Fortune. Just let it go.
Ravor
Well the problem as I see it is that the idea of a "kinder, gentler Lonestar" (Kinder and gentler then what?) is based on the assumption that the SINer population would care what happened to some poor SINless slob. Remember folks, illegal to-the-death Bloodsports is quite popular with the SINer masses in the Sixth World, and the legal entertainment isn't much better.

Besides, I'd imagine that the SINer masses have bigger issues on their minds then semi-offical organlegging of non-persons, such as what in the frag is Lonestar going to do with the go-gangs that rule the highways at night?



kzt
The go-gangs are a silly plot device to try to get the whole Mad Max crap wedged in where it doesn't fit. The population should just ignore plot devices that make no sense if you want to preserve them in your game. Of course Lone Star can remove them. In about a day. They run attack helos and hordes of little rotodrones with MMGs. Rig 20 cars to be attractive targets and several thousand rounds of MMG ammo later the go-gang is no longer a threat to anyone.
Ravor
Sure, I agree that Lonestar probably could wipe the floor with the various go-gangs, but then what would the corps and their lap-dog governments be able to point at to keep the SINer masses afraid and complicent? The go-gangs have free reign of the highways because the powers-that-be allow them to have free reign and by 2050+ most of the people alive don't have living memories of a time where civil liberties meant a damn and people didn't have to cower in their homes at night, and as time wears on it only gets worse because the tired and broken state of things is all people have known, the average wageslave doesn't realize that what he considers to be an acceptable standard of living is nothing more then a pre-union company store sweatshop with a fancy coat of paint thrown on. And your average SINless slob doesn't really believe that less then a century ago he wouldn't have to worry about the "cops" selling him to a biotech lab because he is worth more as a non-person labrat then they would be paid to imprison him.

And perhaps most importantly, neither one of them believes that there is a single damn thing they can do to change the system, so why even bother to try when they can drown their misery in the soothing relief of simsense or street drugs.

wargear
There was a good reason why we always carried non-lethal armaments on runs...if we got caught, we might actually survive to trial. The Star would definately take a dim view of the SINless shooting at their clients, very few such characters would be able to avoid "accidental" death in custody...
Kagetenshi
"Their citizens"? You definitely need to double-check exactly who and what Lone Star is.

~J
martindv
More like their clients' income sources.
eidolon
QUOTE (Ravor)
Well the problem as I see it is that the idea of a "kinder, gentler Lonestar" (Kinder and gentler then what?) is based on the assumption that the SINer population would care what happened to some poor SINless slob. Remember folks, illegal to-the-death Bloodsports is quite popular with the SINer masses in the Sixth World, and the legal entertainment isn't much better.

Exactly. If you want to see it in action, Go rent The Running Man.
kzt
QUOTE (Ravor)
but then what would the corps and their lap-dog governments be able to point at to keep the SINer masses afraid and complicent? The go-gangs have free reign of the highways because the powers-that-be allow them to have free reign

So the fact that Aztechnology can't have their logistics trucks drive for 14 hours a day in December isn't a problem? The cost of one destroyed rig and contents is more that the cost of killing the go-gang, not to mention the huge cost of having your international logistics system crippled by a bunch of thugs.

It's a stupid mad max plot device. It's a lot cheaper and more efficient to operate a company in a safe environment with effective police. It's why you don't have giant companies that open stores in the ghetto, even though they could charge more. Because it cost much more once you account of security and the costs of the ripoffs and robberies that will happen anyway.

If you want to preserve it feel free, but it is dumb.
Ravor
Yeah, it is a problem for the corps, but the go-gangs and lost profit are less of a problem for the corps bottom line then a citizenship that wasn't afraid.

Contrary to popular belief, the corps number one concern isn't actually the bottom line anyways. Although profit is a very close second, the primary concern for the corps is mantaining their control of the Sixth World, which in this case means accepting that some of your trucks are going to be lost. Price of doing biz in a world that they want to keep tired and broken.
martindv
QUOTE (kzt)
QUOTE (Ravor @ Nov 26 2007, 10:27 PM)
but then what would the corps and their lap-dog governments be able to point at to keep the SINer masses afraid and complicent? The go-gangs have free reign of the highways because the powers-that-be allow them to have free reign

So the fact that Aztechnology can't have their logistics trucks drive for 14 hours a day in December isn't a problem?

Sure, assuming that Aztechnology didn't figure into the cost of doing business having a back-end deal where some of their robot semis get "detoured" by go-gangs in return for not having them blown to Hell for tweaking off some exec.

Aztech's the best example, too, given how utterly cutthroat (literally, haha) intracorporate management competition is.
Sir_Psycho
And while Lone Star isn't going to be willing to commence aerial bombardments from Strato-9 MMGs every night, the corps, especially the Azzies, can look after themselves. A go-gang that attempts to rip-off a 18 wheeler drone will most likely have to contend with artillery roto-drone support, armed guards or vehicle hardpoint weapons. Maybe they'd manage a truck every now and then, but the losses would be too great to make it a regular score.

The only people who have any reason to worry about go-gangs are the hapless, worthless citizens unlucky or stupid enough to hit the highway after sundown.
kzt
QUOTE (Sir_Psycho)
And while Lone Star isn't going to be willing to commence aerial bombardments from Strato-9 MMGs every night, the corps, especially the Azzies, can look after themselves. A go-gang that attempts to rip-off a 18 wheeler drone will most likely have to contend with artillery roto-drone support, armed guards or vehicle hardpoint weapons. Maybe they'd manage a truck every now and then, but the losses would be too great to make it a regular score.

That's a recurring cost. A significant one.

It's cheaper to just do it correctly ONCE than pay for it every night or increase the cost of a truck by 50%. It's why companies don't arm their ships with the kind of weapons and troops they could to fight off pirates, they instead pressure governments to stop pirates with navies and such. It's cheaper and reduce the liability to the company.
Cthulhudreams
The problem is if you apply 'realistic' (please for the love of god note my airquotation marks about that) you end up with real life rather than dystopic cyberpunk world.

Remember kiddies, peaceful stable environments are better for business on every level. People are more productive and buy more stuff!
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