How is "most serious people believe..." not an insult to anyone who doesn't "believe" what he thinks most "serious" people believe? And "a giant, invisible superhero who lives in outer space" was just an exceptionally offensive way of categorizing the beliefs of anyone who doesn't see God as a "metaphor". He was being an asshat, and I called him on it. End of story.

Whatever you think. Not my problem. Have a nice day.

Erm, yeah, I just don't see anything wrong with what Mercer said. If there's anything I learned in Catholic school (I basically fly between atheism and seriously considering becoming a priest on a yearly basis), it's that the whole "made in His image" thing aside, God is beyond mortal ken, and as such our understanding of Him IS quite quite literally a metaphor, whether He is real or not. The world isn't South Park and Jesus is not just some dude hanging out with the other deities getting into the occasional crazy misadventure, and as such it's just really for the good of the setting that Shadowrun doesn't touch such an idea with a ten foot pole. There's enough metaphysical implications going on as it is without the devs pissing everyone off and getting in waaay over their heads, after all.

I really think the bit about what "most serious people don't believe" was nothing more than an effort to pre-empt asshats like me flippantly saying something like "I believe God is a giant invisible humanoid stalking the stars looking for injustice to fight. Also, he's a robot. And a ninja." From the rest of his post, it sure looks like he was making every reasonable effort to avoid accidentally offending anyone. If you're offended, then he obviously did offend someone, but I think the mere fact that he was making the effort should at least be enough for him to avoid getting called an asshat. He was just trying to contribute to a conversation; he wasn't declaring a crusade against anyone.

*edited for typographical errors

Hi everybody. (I'm glad the general consensus is I'm not a dick, although I suppose that could all change tomorrow.)

I was specifically addressing the point as to why, if belief influences reality in SR, the major religions that have billions of believers aren't represented more explicitly in SR Magic. It was a fair question, because the books repeatedly imply that belief does influence magic, and yet very little beyond a passing mention is made to organized religions. I could expound on that topic come more, but considering that post went unremarked for three days and even now the discussion isn't about what was said but the way I said it, its probably not worth the effort. (I will say that it seems in SR that a billion people believing something doesn't give one person powers, it matters more what that one person believes.)

Beyond that, I'm not really interested in getting into a debate on religion because 1) its not relevant to the topic at hand (how belief affects magical ability in SR), and 2) I'm never particularly interested in getting into a debate on religion. (Maybe I violated my own rule about the three things you never discuss in polite company, Politics, Religion and the Great Pumpkin.) I'm not particularly interested in being called an asshat either, but I can weather the occasional slings and arrows.

Well I for one would enjoy additional expounding.

i honestly never played Earthdawn so it doesnt have any bearing on me or my games really
I read one of the novels but thats about it