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Lionhearted
Not so much This as THIS! , Okey someone have been watching the New Ironman trailer a few times to much.
Which made me think, Is it possible to build an ironman with the current published rules, Im very aware of that he could be fairly easily done as a Chromed Street Sam, however... that isn't very much like the 'original' character.
Here's the Challenge, making Tony Stark into a Rigger with a fraggin' nice custom built anthroform .. thing?

What we know

1. Tony 'Ironman' Stark is a engineering genius and has a long experience in the weapons industries
2. He has virtually infinite resources thanks to being the CEO of a major weapon manufactorer (just got a Ares wibe down my spine) and Probably very high availibility in restricted, forbidden military class gear
3. The Business man Stark, must be able to pass of as fully human (well, except that gizmo that keeps his heart beating), Aswell of being capable of managing a big company, and at the same time maintaining his alter ego

My bet is that this is atleast a 500bp character (excluding resources), what say? can it be done, and how?
Synner667
Of course, to properly do Iron Man, you'd need to take into account technology way beyond the levels available in SR [since SR does not have superheroes, aliens, etc].

You're practically in House Rules mode to create Iron Man..
..So just put him together, then reverse-justify it.


As for the weapons, etc..
..If that's all you focus on, you might as well go into gunbunny fetish mode and forget about Iron Man as such [whose armour is many things, even ignoring Stealth Armour and Original Armour] and just create man-in-armour-with-guns.
hobgoblin
military armor from arsenal would be a good start. unless one feel like going the borg route...

btw, each time they pull black sabbath - iron man in those trailers, i go all schoolgirl like! biggrin.gif
Lionhearted
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Mar 3 2008, 06:28 PM) *
btw, each time they pull black sabbath - iron man in those trailers, i go all schoolgirl like! biggrin.gif


I've been humming on it all day biggrin.gif
hobgoblin
this looks to be so much better then the spider-man movies smile.gif
not to say they where bad, but they focused to much on the drama and to little on motormouth spidey, and thats how peter parker stays sane with all the shit life throws at him.
Lionhearted
Damn, this is one of those times i wished i'd get Arsenal and Augmentation just so i could rant about it.
Is there any Riggin' support in those books anyway?
GryMor
As far as I can tell, for the armor, flight is the hardest problem to deal with while remaining in RAW. The only solution I've been able to come up with is, roughly:

Tony Stark is a possession tradition mage, the armor can't actually fly on it's own but is instead routinely possessed by a high force air spirit, using movement on itself.
Lionhearted
QUOTE (GryMor @ Mar 3 2008, 08:10 PM) *
As far as I can tell, for the armor, flight is the hardest problem to deal with while remaining in RAW. The only solution I've been able to come up with is, roughly:

Tony Stark is a possession tradition mage, the armor can't actually fly on it's own but is instead routinely possessed by a high force air spirit, using movement on itself.


Hahaha, that is just such a wonderful idea!
Shrike30
Just build a flying drone into the armor/have it bolted to the backpack/attach it with superglue.
hyzmarca
While Iron Man is certainly a cool song, I am unsure if it is thematically appropriate for a movie about Tony Stark. The song's narrative is, after all, about a disgruntled superpowered homeless man who decides to systematically murder the entire world as revenge for the apathetic treatment he has received at the hands of the people he sacrificed everything to save.

Tony Stark is occasionally a mass murderer; but he's never been homeless.


Anyway, start out with an anthroform drone, modify it to accept a driver, and strap on a jet engine. It'll be bulkier than the standard Iron Man armor, but it could work.
Method
With SR technology, the IRON MAN could be an antroform drone the business exec jumps into...
Feshy
QUOTE (GryMor @ Mar 3 2008, 07:10 PM) *
As far as I can tell, for the armor, flight is the hardest problem to deal with while remaining in RAW. The only solution I've been able to come up with is, roughly:

Tony Stark is a possession tradition mage, the armor can't actually fly on it's own but is instead routinely possessed by a high force air spirit, using movement on itself.


Yea, watching the trailer, I kept thinking "Hmm... shadowrun has no flying armor. Shadowrun has no wrist-sized antitank missiles."

Then I realized -- every one of those things could be done with magic. Of course, a mage in a heavy suit of armor isn't really what the OP was going for I think, but it's the closest I could come.
hobgoblin
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Mar 4 2008, 01:50 AM) *
While Iron Man is certainly a cool song, I am unsure if it is thematically appropriate for a movie about Tony Stark. The song's narrative is, after all, about a disgruntled superpowered homeless man who decides to systematically murder the entire world as revenge for the apathetic treatment he has received at the hands of the people he sacrificed everything to save.

Tony Stark is occasionally a mass murderer; but he's never been homeless.


your thinking to much about it wink.gif
Spike
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Mar 3 2008, 03:28 PM) *
btw, each time they pull black sabbath - iron man in those trailers, i go all schoolgirl like! biggrin.gif



My girl has expressly forbid me from playing, humming, or even thinking about singing (much less the actual... you know... singing) the song for some time now.




Otherwise...




yeah.
GryMor
I was initially going to try building the suit as a drone, but thats nixed by it being mediumish but carrying a passenger. Then I went along the Tony is actually a jar head, the thing on his humaniform body's chest is their as an explanation/camo so people still think he's human.

But then I ran into the problem of not even being able to (usefully) make a flying anthroform drone using RAW, and definitely not being able to make a medium drone with the suits flight characteristics (VTOL alone eats up 4 mod slots, never mind pumping speed up beyond mach 1).
Jaid
ok, you'll have to *really* ignore the flavor, and just focus on the numbers:

horseman with advanced cargo module
add in the LTA mod.
add in walker mod.

season to taste with weapons, armor, etc.

that gives you the most basic stuff... flight (so it's not *quite* a jetpack =P), humanoid body (well, arms and legs at any rate... remember how we're ignoring flavor? well ignore harder, dangit!) and a fully enclosed vehicle. behold, i give unto you (very basic, and not terribly fast) flying power armor!

(beyond that, i don't really know anything about iron man i'm afraid, so this is pretty much just the basic concept nyahnyah.gif )
Stahlseele
pity that the jymn(spelling?) suits did not make it into SR4 . . in sR3 they would be more or less the perfect basis for building the iron man, and they accept rigging controls . . as for the movie . . if he's got heart-problems . . doesn't that mean it's the ultimate iron man? *shudders* if it's going to be ultimate, i'll have to decline any offer of seeing that movie ever <.< . . the animated iron man/avengers movies were enough/too much for me allready . .
raverbane
If it doesnt have to be a starting character...

Build the armor as an ally spirit. The materialized form is the hollow armor.

Or you could do it as a inhabitation...
GryMor
QUOTE (Jaid @ Mar 3 2008, 08:45 PM) *
ok, you'll have to *really* ignore the flavor, and just focus on the numbers:

horseman with advanced cargo module
add in the LTA mod.
add in walker mod.

season to taste with weapons, armor, etc.

that gives you the most basic stuff... flight (so it's not *quite* a jetpack =P), humanoid body (well, arms and legs at any rate... remember how we're ignoring flavor? well ignore harder, dangit!) and a fully enclosed vehicle. behold, i give unto you (very basic, and not terribly fast) flying power armor!

(beyond that, i don't really know anything about iron man i'm afraid, so this is pretty much just the basic concept nyahnyah.gif )


WAY too slow (speed 75 base -50% for LTA, -50% for walker, technically dropping it to 0, but in spirit leaving it at 37.5), handling is sad (+1 base, -2 for LTA, +1 for walker), armor is anemic (base 4) and you don't really have much in the way of mod slots (body 6, and you've already eaten 3 slots).

At best, you can get +40% in speed boosts.

Personally, if we're ignoring theme, you could get closer starting with a Lockheed Sparrow (although, it's almost certainly missing a Std. Upgrades section) and tacking on walker, going with 'spirit of the rules' to only count the speed penalty as a land speed penalty.

In fact, AFAICT, the minimum house rules for getting to the Ironman suit would be to add a 'miniaturized' 'modification' (more of, alternate version really), that reduces body for purposes of vehicle size and cargo capacity, tack a rating 14 instance of that modification onto a Federated Boing Eagle-C along with walker modification, and an extra level of VTOL.

Of course, this would work a lot better if there were rules (or are there, maybe I missed them), for actually building vehicles...
GryMor
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 3 2008, 08:59 PM) *
pity that the jymn(spelling?) suits did not make it into SR4 . . in sR3 they would be more or less the perfect basis for building the iron man, and they accept rigging controls . . as for the movie . . if he's got heart-problems . . doesn't that mean it's the ultimate iron man? *shudders* if it's going to be ultimate, i'll have to decline any offer of seeing that movie ever <.< . . the animated iron man/avengers movies were enough/too much for me allready . .



Uhm, Ultimate Iron Man doesn't have heart troubles, in fact you could cut his heart out and he'd be back on his feet in a few days. Ultimate Iron Man has freaky regeneration and full body brain issues. The heart issues thing (which, AFAICR, is actually shrapnel near his heart, being kept in place by the magnet thing on his chest) was something the 'original' iron man had, at least at some point.

I actually like Ultimate Iron Man, it's the only Ultimate continuity comic I like... (and the best work Orson Scott Card has done in the past decade)
Stahlseele
hrm, maybe i'm getting things mixed up here, but wasn't the original iron-man quadrilepic and had to use a wheelchair outside of the armor?
and the ultimate one was the one with the heart failure and the alcohol problem? o.O
And no matter what Iron Man we're talking about, you could allways just cut his heart out . . either because it's fun and most everybody wanted to do it at least once in his or her life or because there probably wouldn't be that much of a difference in the heartless bastard anyway *g*
Critias
No.

Regular (616) Iron Man has traditionally had heart problems, and jumped in and out of the bottle throughout his continuity. In the last few years, he's also been diagnosted with giant-gaping-assholitis, and a case of the chronic stupids.

Ultimate Iron Man has the brain...erm..."issues." And regeneration stuff going on.
Stahlseele
okay, seems as if i am just a teeny little bit behind on my marvel multiverse <.< . .
Lionhearted
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 4 2008, 07:37 AM) *
okay, seems as if i am just a teeny little bit behind on my marvel multiverse <.< . .


At this point im glad that marvel never put to much effort in Sweden, Only experience i got of Iron man is that from an old SNES game featuring him and some other assorted Marvel heroes (Capt. A, Wolverine, Spidey, Hulk to my recollection)
hobgoblin
one could also pick up this game for multiple platforms now:
http://www.marvelultimatealliance.com/
Critias
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Mar 4 2008, 11:02 AM) *
one could also pick up this game for multiple platforms now:
http://www.marvelultimatealliance.com/

If you do, though -- and I suggest it, it's a great game -- score it for the 360 if you can and get the Gold Edition. It's normally the same price as the normal, but comes with eight characters that were previously only available by way of paid download. Cyclops, Hawkeye, Nightcrawler (three of my favorites), and The Hulk from the "good guy" side, and you can play as Magento, Venom, Sabretooth, or Doctor Doom for when you're feeling a bit more sinister. Good times await.
Jaid
QUOTE (GryMor @ Mar 3 2008, 09:29 PM) *
WAY too slow (speed 75 base -50% for LTA, -50% for walker, technically dropping it to 0, but in spirit leaving it at 37.5), handling is sad (+1 base, -2 for LTA, +1 for walker), armor is anemic (base 4) and you don't really have much in the way of mod slots (body 6, and you've already eaten 3 slots).

At best, you can get +40% in speed boosts.

Personally, if we're ignoring theme, you could get closer starting with a Lockheed Sparrow (although, it's almost certainly missing a Std. Upgrades section) and tacking on walker, going with 'spirit of the rules' to only count the speed penalty as a land speed penalty.

In fact, AFAICT, the minimum house rules for getting to the Ironman suit would be to add a 'miniaturized' 'modification' (more of, alternate version really), that reduces body for purposes of vehicle size and cargo capacity, tack a rating 14 instance of that modification onto a Federated Boing Eagle-C along with walker modification, and an extra level of VTOL.

Of course, this would work a lot better if there were rules (or are there, maybe I missed them), for actually building vehicles...

i had considered the sparrow, but it technically can't have the walker mod as that is ground only, whereas the LTA mod is for any vehicle you want (for some weird reason).

however yes, that would probably be the superior way to do it if you have an accomadating GM wink.gif

alternately, you could try to convince your GM to allow the sparrow to carry you around inside my horseman (minus the LTA) but that seems a little bit iffy to say the least wink.gif
Glyph
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Mar 3 2008, 04:50 PM) *
Tony Stark is occasionally a mass murderer; but he's never been homeless.


Actually, I'm fairly certain he was at least once, when they had him lose his company, then fall off the wagon in a big way.
Uli
So... when I have a magician that lets his ally spirit possess a military armor do its armor ratings increase by the force? I suppose they would.
Draco18s
QUOTE (GryMor @ Mar 3 2008, 09:29 PM) *
In fact, AFAICT, the minimum house rules for getting to the Ironman suit would be to add a 'miniaturized' 'modification' (more of, alternate version really), that reduces body for purposes of vehicle size and cargo capacity, tack a rating 14 instance of that modification onto a Federated Boing Eagle-C along with walker modification, and an extra level of VTOL.


I had to laugh. Miniaturized x14 Boeing Eagle-C
rotfl.gif
Stahlseele
you realize, of course, that this thread has been dead for allmost one year?
InfinityzeN
One thing everyone forgets, your not limited by mod slots on an original production. You can include all the stuff you want and call it all stock, so it doesn't take any slots.
KCKitsune
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Feb 23 2009, 04:45 PM) *
you realize, of course, that this thread has been dead for allmost one year?



Hush you! Don't you know that a lot of people like to practice Necromancy? grinbig.gif
Glyph
Is he alive or dead?
Has he thoughts within his head?
hobgoblin
to bad they never really used it in the movie...
Whipstitch
This thread always hit me as a touch silly anyway. Tony's suit pretty much obliterates SR tech. I mean, he made an AI for his suit that was essentially a backup of his own mind, for god's sake. It called itself Tony 2.0. Also, he basically shits nanites at this point.
Draco18s
To say nothing of the micro fusion reactor in his chest NOT irradiating him to death.
darthmord
It was an ARC reactor, not a micro fusion one.

The AI for his suit was not a copy of his mind either. From the movie, he took a copy of his house AI and had it run the suit.

Also, it didn't call itself Tony 2.0. It's name was Jarvis.
hobgoblin
and jarvis is his (physical) butler from the comics...
Whipstitch
QUOTE (darthmord @ Feb 24 2009, 10:07 AM) *
It was an ARC reactor, not a micro fusion one.

The AI for his suit was not a copy of his mind either. From the movie, he took a copy of his house AI and had it run the suit.

Also, it didn't call itself Tony 2.0. It's name was Jarvis.


We're talking about comic book characters here; I'm not wrong, I'm just talking about a different continuity than you are. In this case, you're talking about the movie while I'm talking about the comics, particularly a 6 issue run by Adam Warren.


Basically, the OP's premise was laughably short of what comic book Iron Man is capable of. Tony would annihilate a 500 bp street sam. Possibly from orbit, if he's feeling saucy.
hobgoblin
well, the movie was set pretty close to where he started out.

and sure enough, like all comic heros, iron man have seen a fair bit of power creep over the years...
Rayzorblades
QUOTE
It was an ARC reactor, not a micro fusion one.


The Arc reactor in the movie was akin to a tokamak AND contained palladium.

When palladium is at room temperature and atmospheric pressure, it can absorb up to 900 times its own volume of hydrogen, which makes palladium an efficient and safe storage medium for hydrogen and hydrogen isotopes. This perhaps indicates that the arc reactor uses hydrogen as a fuel.


Making it a micro fusion reactor... That and when Obidiah gathers engineers to build his own ARC reactor, he recruits them from the Toroidal Fusion department.
Whipstitch
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Feb 24 2009, 11:14 AM) *
well, the movie was set pretty close to where he started out.

and sure enough, like all comic heros, iron man have seen a fair bit of power creep over the years...



Power creep is practically a core Iron Man character concept at this point. Stark's an inventor and a future fetishist, modeled after guys like Howard Hughes, men who believed that industrialism and technological innovation were America's core strengths. The character's personal ideology has never really outgrown the dreams of the jet age-- Stark still believes tech is the answer more than any other Marvel hero. Further, he has the easiest upgrade path to write for; everytime he encounters a new innovation, man made or alien in origin, he reverse engineers it into a new form of armor upgrade. Meanwhile, how were top tier characters supposed to get stronger in the meantime? What is Thor supposed to do? Become extra godly? He's actually already done that once by becoming the head of his pantheon.

Honestly, I wouldn't even call it power creep in Tony's case; it's too much of an understatement. He's basically bootsrapped his way into the top tiers of Marvel heroes at this point. Usually, when a character fights above his weight class and wins in comic books, it's usually due to one-offs and authors taking liberties with a deus ex machina. Tony, on the other hand, has the odd distinction of having most of his upgrades being ushered immediately into the canon. For example, with the Hulkbuster armor he can can square off against big green in hand-to-hand combat without embarrassing himself and it's all kosher. That's essentially the Marvel equivalent of taking a Thor shot to the face. Tony is a bad, bad man, and you'd have to go back to '60s continuity before a street sam could have a chance in hell.
hobgoblin
there is a reason why i stick to spidey wink.gif
Whipstitch
See, I don't mind Tony's power creep as much as I mind the liberties that have been taken with Spidey over the years. Him and Wolverine are poster children for characters fighting above their weight class and then having the incident get quietly swept back under the rug once the completely arbitrary story arc is over. It's quite maddening. Also, the whole Mary Jane pseudo-retcon has me confused. On the one hand, I don't really hate it that much. On the other hand, I think I only don't hate it due to how much they screwed up Spider-man over the last decade or so in the first place. He needed a change of direction, even if I think this was a weird way to go about it.


Addendum: I am a huge nerd.
Stahlseele
ya ain't seen nutting yet Bub.
ever read the whole shebang of Wolverine?
and what do you mean, ABOVE HIS WEIGHT CLASS?
there is no such thing <.< . .
well, okay, maybe the hulk and Juggernaut for example . .
Or Magneto . . they only did not manage to kill him, but he lost quite clearly to all of them . .
Whipstitch
Wolverine isn't a terribly powerful character. His original role in X-men comics essentially boiled down to getting worked liked a speed bag. Basically, he served as a barometer for when violence won't work in a given X-Men encounter anymore, a way of demonstrating how powerful a given new villain is without having to kill anyone off. If the writer needed to demonstrate that the villain can do Bad Things to people, he could always just go ahead and have Bad Things happen to Wolverine, since they can just write in "he shook it off" later. Basically, Wolverine's shtick consisted of being incapacitated without actually ever dying. He's frankly a rather narrow character who was only built up after his rather inexplicable popularity started raking in money for no good reason; his clear wins are typically against mundos or limited to one shots that have minimal effects on anyone's continuity, even his own (Magneto notwithstanding). Basically, he's like the Thing but with a goofy haircut, a narrow plot device that eventually grew into a more fleshed out character. Fans can cheer for him all they want, but he's essentially one step above street level super heroes in the big scheme of things.
Synner667
QUOTE (Whipstitch @ Feb 24 2009, 08:16 PM) *
Wolverine isn't a terribly powerful character. His original role in X-men comics essentially boiled down to getting worked liked a speed bag. Basically, he served as a barometer for when violence won't work in a given X-Men encounter anymore, a way of demonstrating how powerful a given new villain is without having to kill anyone off. If the writer needed to demonstrate that the villain can do Bad Things to people, he could always just go ahead and have Bad Things happen to Wolverine, since they can just write in "he shook it off" later. Basically, Wolverine's shtick consisted of being incapapacitated without actually ever dying. He's frankly a rather narrow character who was only built up after his rather inexplicable popularity started raking in money for no good reason; his clear wins are typically against mundos or limited to one shots that have minimal effects on anyone's continuity but his own. Basically, he's like the Thing but with a goofy haircut, a narrow plot device that eventually grew into a more fleshed out character. Fans can cheer for him all they want, but he's essentially one step above street level super heroes in the big scheme of things.

Wolfie did have lots of depth to him [chris claremont days are great !!]...
...But he became very popular, and devolved into someone with a very limited repertoire

I think he ended up being the Marvel version of Lobo, because Lobo became a wildly popular character [tho, Lobo was probably based on an exaggerated Wolfie]
Whipstitch
You have to remember that these things come in waves. Wolverine started out as a 1 dimensional character for the Hulk to beat the tar out of back in the '70s. He was then brought into the X-men, but the writers didn't think he was very interesting, which led to Claremont nearly dropping him entirely. (Un?)fortunately, John Byrne, one of the artists, argued to keep him because he said comics needed more Canadian characters (I guess Canucks stick together). Eventually, they managed to make something out of him. In all fairness, I have to admit that most characters are only as good as their writers and that there's been some pretty decent Wolverine arcs alongside the bad ones.


As for Lobo, he started out as a rarely used, ill-defined character and then was reshaped as an outright parody of Wolverine. I'll let this quote from his creator speak for itself: "I have no idea why Lobo took off. I came up with him as an indictment of the Punisher-Wolverine bad ass hero prototype and somehow he caught on as the high violence poster boy. Go figure."
Synner667
QUOTE (Whipstitch @ Feb 24 2009, 08:45 PM) *
You have to remember that these things come in waves. Wolverine started out as a 1 dimensional character for the Hulk to beat the tar out of back in the '70s. He was then brought into the X-men, but the writers didn't think he was very interesting, which led to Claremont nearly dropping him entirely. (Un?)fortunately, John Byrne, one of the artists, argued to keep him because he said comics needed more Canadian characters (I guess Canucks stick together). Eventually, they managed to make something out of him. In all fairness, I have to admit that most characters are only as good as their writers and that there's been some pretty decent Wolverine arcs alongside the bad ones.

That's interesting.
I remember the whole Alpha Flight thing, which was part of Wolfies past.
I thought it was just part of his backstory.

I loves Wolfie at that time - lots of Samurai honor stuff going on

QUOTE (Whipstitch @ Feb 24 2009, 08:45 PM) *
As for Lobo, he started out as a rarely used, ill-defined character and then was reshaped as an outright parody of Wolverine. I'll let this quote from his creator speak for itself: "I have no idea why Lobo took off. I came up with him as an indictment of the Punisher-Wolverine bad ass hero prototype and somehow he caught on as the high violence poster boy. Go figure."

Lobo ended all over the place, doing guest appearances...
...And he'll always be popular, because there'll always be people who think violence is the only solution [as the Punisher and Wolfie show]

My task, gentlemen, if you're upto it...
...Spec Wolfie using SR [but in another thread, methinks]

Can it even be done ??
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