I would tend to agree with Dim Sum. However; I have noticed (at least on these boards) a distaste for combat, and anyone who enjoys combat. Almost as if they are somehow sub-par because they like shooting as opposed to talking.

To be honest I think it is really about role-playing styles. People who prefer the "talk your way out of everything" style do not like the "shoot first, then double tap" style.

Personally I like both. Avoiding combat is all well and good, but nothing is more exciting then a well crafted seen by a devoted GM.

I say, screw your gm, munchkin the hell out your sam and see how he likes it!

Oh and as for what they are called, any character who is a combat specialist is refereed to as a Street Samurai. There are other terms, but I think that is the most prolific. When you say "fighter" it makes me think of a boxer. Fighter as a class is a hold over from old D&D.

Ray of DOOM!!!
No, not you Raygun. I wasn't talking about the AVS. I wasn't! I promise! Don't hurt me!

~J

Yeah, Solidcobra, I'd echo Shadow's sentiments: just play what you're comfortable with.

Take a page out of Captain Jim West (Will Smith update): "Shoot first, shoot later, shoot some more, and if there are any survivors after that, ask them some questions."

Like "why the hell are you still alive?"

~J

Only send 'em to me if they're not going to bleed all over everything, please

~J

I don't think he'd survive the trip to Boston.

Heck, I don't think he'd survive the trip off the floor!

whuddever, me and most players (all except the mage.... woot!) forced the GM to abdicate, now another person is the GM, i am fairly sure i can trust him........
fun how long a topic can be even if 70% of the people agree
"No problem with samurai BUT: *insert bad thing about samurai, RPing, metagaming or my GM here*"

just kidding!

The thing is, my problem is solved now, now i'll just sit back and watch the discussion.....

Honestly, I've never really seen gunbunnies in action all that much - mostly because my friends enjoy playing decker or riggers (The Fast and the Furious had earned a VERY special place in their hearts) above anything else. That isn't to say no one has ever played a samurai from time to time, but they stay within a certain context that seems to always avoid "cheezy" moments.

However, looking over the posts in this thread, I thought I'd try my hand at making one within the bounds of the core rulebook, while pulling inspiration ideas from The Quick and the Dead characters.

This is what I got: http://www.elizar.com/fanworks/wrg.htm

All in all, though I can see how it could be easily muchinkinize, and the shoot first, shoot second, and keep shooting till you've committed genocide factor is in there; IMHO, its all in the style of the GM in how abusive things can get.

Perhaps its because firefights turn very ugly in the campaigns I run and also participate in, that such characters don’t really shine (taking on a corp or gang with a lot of firepower on day one, will mean the said corp or gang might be looking for revenge with a lot of firepower on day three – everything in moderation so to speak).

Even if I were to run a firefight campaign (and I’ve been tooling around with one as of late), Shadowrunning isn’t about open siege warfare. If anything; most battles shouldn’t even last 30 minutes maximum, or else reinforcements are guaranteed to show up (if not sooner). 30 minutes within a 24 hour day (granted in RPG time) means a “gun centric” role wouldn’t be of too much importance for 90% of the game.

At least in the types of campaigns I experience. Then again… that’s probably why I opt for quite a bit of social skills in the example archetype – so its really not a 100% gunbunny I suppose.

I would just like to say I don't hate gunbunnies. I am one! *LOL*

*Hits Grifter with a F40 Manabolt*

~J

I play a Gunbunny who totes an Alpha, a SPAS with an Antioch attached, a FN-AAL gyrojet pistol, two Preds, a dart pistol, and a Colt M24A3 carbine. With obvious cyberarms. With gyros in them. And also is a rigger.

And I am proud.

*dons riot gear for the impending overkill of himself*

I saw this thread and given my experiences I thought I'd pipe in on my thoughts of GunBunnies.

First thing I'd like to say is I have a distinct definition of Gunbunny as compared to other more tame varieties of gun wielding death machines. Gunbunny is a distinct class of Gun-Toting Mercenary. He focuses his Karma toward boosting strictly gun related and combat pool skills/atts. He doesn't care for the greater plot he only cares for the level of carnage he can create, and how much over damage he can cause and how much damage he can shrug like a fly. Any other gun wielding members of the party(those who spend on their etiquette, among other more mundane skills) and try to get involved in more than combat are NOT gunbunnies to me.

I have a problem with gunbunnies because they break the overall balance of the game. I know a lot of my players would love to be involved in combat, in fact if they are not in some part involved in combat they get upset that they missed out. Most of this I'm sure is from the D&Dism's involved. I think D&D breeds the uni-directional character creation and the thought that Combat is the only path to Good XP. So I have players creating super gun-toter's who can take down armies while the army pops grenades all over them and they shrug the damage like it was a swarm of gnats.

I think Experienced Gun Wielding MeatShields are somewhat essential for missions that may involve combat, but I don't agree the the meatshields should be flimsy and 2 dimensional.

I had a player who played a Gunbunny, and I did quite well in managing the difficulty for everyone. but the only way I was able to do the gunbunny any damage(grenades and regular ammo had no effect) was narcojet rifles armed with 10D-14D Chems) which he staged fairly well, but did at least injure him. I feel as a GM I should not have to deal light naval damage just to guarentee that I wound my player. because I know that if that is what it takes to challenge the gunbunny, the rest of the crew will be paste, and I know if I only train the hardest challenges at the Gunbunny, he will whine that he is being singled out by that railgun.

All and all I think a few things are true in terms of my definition of Gunbunny. Most gunbunnies are Min/Max Twinkies, who played D&D AxeBunnies in a former life, who thinks the only way to gain XP/bonuses for his character is in combat, wants to be invincible, swim with the blood of his enemies, and be the center of attention.

The only solution I know to "educate" or whatever you want to call it, these players is to put caps on things. make floating reaction caps, weapons related skill points distribution caps etc(only allow 15 points in combat related skills on creation, max 4 in any combat related skill). This will encourage the players to create not so uber Gun Wielders with other versatile skills. this can also be used to make sure all players have a similar possibility at enjoying combat or any other initiative related task.

just my 2

Hmm...If you put it that way, I'm not as much the guy who's a gunbunny as the guy who decided to play a rigger/sam because he felt it was what the group was missing.

In my gaming dictionary™, a GunBunny is anyone who effectively uses firearms in a combat situation as a first choice. I use it in place of Street Samurai, which to me implies someone with a specific code and/or set of principles. A Decker with Pistols 4 as his only combat skill is a GunBunny.

see I know everyone has their own interpretation of gunbunny, I classify any gun-toters that aren't strictly Mobile Assualt Cannons mercenaries, unless they hold up to the Samurai Code, in which case they get the street samurai logo. GunBunnies are a special breed, that tote more firepower than third world nations and are able to march through gunfire in a straight line catching bullets with their teeth.

...Basically Mr. Invincibles who have LMGs as their "back-up" weapon?

...Admiteddly I've made some Min-Max PCs for the hell of it, but I haven't been asses as them...

I don't really think it's the character that is a problem in this said thread. It's his/her/its player.

The word Mercenary brings up it's own connotations. Technically, every Shadowrunner can be defined as a mercenary.

In a general sense, yes. But the old Fields of Fire book did a bang-up job of explaining the difference between a professional mercenary soldier and the typical shadowrunner - let's face it, most 'runners don't conduct themselves as professionals; they're punks and thugs. The only 'runners that approach a merc's professionalism are the real pros, who represent the upper echelon of shadowrunners.

Notice that I did state 'technically'. Sports stars are technically mercenaries too.

That being said, FoF does a good job of describing the ideal Merc. Not every Mercenary is a professional, just like not every shadowrunner is a sleazy gutter-punk.

Yes. My namesake rigger/sam isn't as professional as a merc. Nor is he an insane gunbunny. He's a jerk and an asshole to others, is not a people person, has little reason to live, and is essentially a very 'wared thug with a lot more guns, a VCR, and a prototype superbike.

Merc he ain't. He's street scum. But useful street scum.

Lots of Mercs aren't what you'd call particularly professional.

~J

hmmm GunBunny, lovely name, and i have Two in my current teamone a wild west styled gunslinger adept the other the fully cybered AR packing troll Razorguy, am i love em both, sure they wasted most of the security team they ended up (having to) fighting with, yet both players are good roleplayers and they play their chars outside of the shooty box. For example the teams stealth expert <a ninja in this case> was given almost the entire first session of the run to sneak into an admin facility, grab a data chip and get out with the team`s rigger sitting overwatch across the street in an alley mouth in the van and running surveillence with her rotor drones on high, the two Gun bunny`s meanwhilst were sitting two buildings away at a small corner bar supping on some soya Kaf and chatting to a few of the down and out locals. that was it for two and half hrs of a 4 hour session, the first hour involved the Johnson meet and some contacts pulling some info for the team and the last half hour was 5 mins of gunbunny blazing awya when the Ninja got into some trouble on the way out of the admin facility, and the getaway. tack on another hours woth of "downtime" activity <including one of the GunBunnies taking a contact out on a date as payment for a favor and the other heckling and argfuing with one of his, both IC,> whilst the rigger and ninja set to some planning for the next step of the job. Net result, Rigger, Sam, Razor, Face, Decker, mage, Shaman etc, its not the Char type who`s nesercarrily the problem but the ability of the player to play their char outside of the numbers on the char sheet. Oh and a trick i picked up for when things like deckers slow things down (rarely have one in the teams i GM for so i`m rusty again with the matrix stuff), simpley come up with a couple of opposed rolls of your own untill you know the thing comfortabley enough to use accurately. People are here for the Fun and Flow of the game kiddies, the odd hash over rules you are unsure on can be ignored so long as everyone enjoys the run. just be sure to make clear that the real rules will be used next time once you`ve had chance to sit down with them and commit to recall.
Keep running

At least he knew where the "Return" key was...I think.

-Siege

Thanks for the edit. Had to type it up quickly before i had to dash out to work so sadly it came out in ramble format.

...Would the filename have been rant.rmbl, then?

*rotfls, then runs away* RUN AWAAAAY, RUN AWAAAAAY!!!

From Gunbunnies to rant.rmbl, little off topic .

Oh and yeh *raises trusty Ingram SG, makes full use of the Smartlink-2 features, (custom install) and peppers a burst at Phaeton`s head*

Now, back to bis. Who else has more views on the gunbunnies? (cannonhares?).

*gets brainscattered*

My namesake character was an archtypal SR2 gunbunny. 17+46 Intitiaitve, Firearms 7, 0 essence / 5BI, etc.
However, he also have a lot of useful contacts, several of them buddies, a lot of non-lethal weapons, a really high Stealth and Ettiquitte, etc. And a Rating three Skillwire plus system for the skills he didn't have but would need on a recurring basis (like Biotech and Electronics).
Basically he served as the groups escort and body gaurd. If somebody else had a good electronics score, I'd let them do that work (even if my skillsoft was better) and spend my time making sure nobody was on our tail or shooting at us.
Did this "up the ante" on what sort of opposition it took to threaten the group? You bet yer sweet ass it did- that was the guys POINT. Just as having a mage or a decker "ups the ante" on what sort of magical or marix security the opposition must have, he allowed the group to face bigger physical threats- which previously had been overwhelming them on a regualr basis. Because I was the groups front line against such threats, I often had to be VERY careful of the tactics I used in combat, both for my own safety and that of others. Ocassionly the GM would throw in a gratuitious combat scene wher I culd cut loose on hordes of mooks (in which case I usually didn't even use a gun) or had to fight solo against rediculous odds (and often get taken down for a while leaving the rest of the group to work on thier own and even rescue my character several times).

I've played non-gunbunny characters, and I would have been very happy to have such a co-operative gunbunny in the group. I think where gunbunnys get a bad name is they players often play them act as cocky, inconsiderate, and even downright incompetant hotheads who just like to kill stuff, rather than focusing on solving problems through the precise and reasoned aplication of combat arms. Which probably says more about the player than the character "architype"...

Nicely put Mongoose. *appluades*

Hear hear.

Round of applause for Rattler, Mr SickPuppy GM of the week .

Reminds me though of a way to curb the Gun Bunnies excesses that i`ve been utilising recently (yep including and aspecially with the runner team mentioned in my oh so long post). Quite simpley the Runners `contract` with the Johnson specified minimal to no actual Body count in terms of real kills. It was all stun or incapacity and give/find med care to those who they had hurt too badly. One other sting in the tail of doing that to a team, leave the Number of unacceptable body unmentioned, they have to guess how much they can get away with.

THIS is a gunbunny.

...Need I say more?

No, this is a gunbunny.