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Reg06
I just went out bought the Shadowrun core book (I've played before, but after relocating it has taken a while to find players), and because I have no self control in these matters I purchased Augmentation. It was a toss up between Augmentation and Arsenal, but it matters little as I'll probably be buying Arsenal soon anyways.
So, is Arsenal any good? What sort of stuff does it include? More melee weapons? And specifically, does it include more types of bludgeoning weapons (things like a big maul, or two handed hammer)?

Thanks
DocTaotsu
Yes, it's worth buying.

The compiled charts in the back are almost worth it by themselves.
It basically includes more of everything. Melee and otherwise, plus it has a bunch of other random crap that you can throw into your game for flavor or ignore because it's too much trouble.

All in all I thought it was worth the cash.
Kyoto Kid
...Form fit armour, tres chic armoured clothing, Military Grade armour, more bang bangs (& some really big ones too), Missiles & rockets & mortars (oh my), a drum fed GL, a Gauss Rifle, Lasers, explosives, 11 pages on demolitions, more vehicles, more drones, Battle Bots, custom weapons, Manatech, spy toys-- [gasp...deep breath]

...yeah, I'd say it's worth it.
CanRay
Toys. smokin.gif

I pretty much consider any "Gear Book" to be a "Must Buy", but that's just me.

But, yeah: Guns, cars, explosives, drugs, and all the other good stuff that makes Cyberpunk so dark!

Everyone in my group is fighting over it as they plan and build characters, so I consider that a sign of a good buy.
DocTaotsu
Honestly I can't imagine playing a game without Augmentation, Arsenal, and Street Magic (Pfft, good work CGL, you could have named the magic book Aracana something and we could have referred to it collectively as AAA or the Triple A. Now it's not nearly as confusing as it could be.)

BBB?
AAA?
Daier Mune
Arsenal as a weapons book isn't all that impressive, really. you get like a dozen pistols that all do roughly the same thing, with one or two unique designs.

as an expanded gear book and GM resource guide, its fantastic. i may not be interested in the guns (and normally i'm all about the guns), but the martial arts and weapon mods and manatech make it totaly worth it.
Blue eyes
Definetly a must buy! A great addition to the other core books.

Btw Synner indicated in yesterdays chat that more drones and vehicles will be added in a future book, good news! I wonder which book that will be. smile.gif
reepneep
Two words: Combat Anthroforms. How did we live without them? Those and the gun and vehicle mods... and the chemistry rules... and the expanded demolitions rules... just go buy the damn book.
Stahlseele
how we lived without them?
HOW WE LIVED WITHOUT THEM?
In my time we did use cybernetics to make us into our own combat anthroforms!
we had to do things by hand uphill in both directions!
i'd say Augmentation is more important than Arsenal, but if you allready have Aug, then yeah, get that Arse
DocTaotsu
Augmentation is pretty key to the street sami (which I think is pretty universal to any SR game), but Arsenal has something for everyone.

Except the hacker.

Because he gets his own book.

Weirdo.
vladski
QUOTE (Reg06 @ May 18 2008, 01:06 AM) *
I just went out bought the Shadowrun core book (I've played before, but after relocating it has taken a while to find players), and because I have no self control in these matters I purchased Augmentation. It was a toss up between Augmentation and Arsenal, but it matters little as I'll probably be buying Arsenal soon anyways.
So, is Arsenal any good? What sort of stuff does it include? More melee weapons? And specifically, does it include more types of bludgeoning weapons (things like a big maul, or two handed hammer)?

Thanks

Arsenal is the one book I would say that any SR game (no matter the focus or how advanced) should have beyond hte BBB (core rules). There's truly something in there for every character.

The rest of hte books, Augmentation, Street Magic, etc. are more niche books and you can run a perfectly acceptable game just straight out of hte BBB. Of course, you probably want a good setting book as well. If I had to choose only one, it would probably be Shadows of North America and/or Runner Havens. And, unless you are planning on using Tecromancy to any extent, stay away from Emergence. I haven't cracked it since I originally bought it when it first came out. frown.gif For me, it was a waste of nuyen.

If I was limited to only three books to run an SR game on a deserted island, I would say give me the BBB, Arsenal and probably Street Magic. Of course, I wouldn't want to do that. I own probably 85-90 percent of all the SR stuff in one form or another from all four editions, and use all of it, at least occasionally, except the core rule stuff from editions 1-3 (and still used Rigger 3 and the Cannon Companion for my own conversions until Arsenal came out. nyahnyah.gif )

And no, there are no big mauls or two handed hammers. That's the kind of stuff that can be extrapolated from other weapons.

Vlad
Zen Shooter01
It's amazing and essential.
Wasabi
Arsenal is like the old Cybertechnology, Fields of Fire, the Corporate Security Handbook, and Rigger 3 all combined, then gift wrapped with a host of new items. It rocks.
Sir_Psycho
Arsenal is a very good book. In the same way SR4 is a good unification of rules into a simpler, more intuitive system than SR3, Arsenal takes a whole lot of gear that is useful to all Shadowrunners and puts it in the one place, rather than having books that were a little more class specific. The lack of flavour and context can be solved by picking up some SR3 books, which are still very relevant.
hobgoblin
QUOTE (Daier Mune @ May 18 2008, 08:58 AM) *
Arsenal as a weapons book isn't all that impressive, really. you get like a dozen pistols that all do roughly the same thing, with one or two unique designs.


thats guns for you. for all the noise those in the "know" produce about them then end of the story is that they are all metal tubes that have bits of metal forced down them thanks to a chemical reaction at one end...

and that funny enough, sums up anything non-rocket thats used to kill people today at range...

still, i think we would get a lot of noise if SR went the blue planet way and having exactly one weapon pr class (with 2-3 special ones, total, for flavor in the gear book).
imperialus
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ May 18 2008, 07:47 AM) *
still, i think we would get a lot of noise if SR went the blue planet way and having exactly one weapon pr class (with 2-3 special ones, total, for flavor in the gear book).


I agree... I know it sounds stupid but half the time I buy guns based on what I think 'looks coolest' even if there isn't even a drawing for it, or my vision of it's drawing is totally different than the picture in the book.

Really, I mean what's the real difference between an Ares Alpha and an AK97 modified with an underbarrel grenade launcher and a smartlink? Style, and price. The Alpha looks like something a baddass out of a sci-fi movie should have. An AK97 looks like something a kid in Sierra Leone should be toting around.
Daier Mune
i meant that more of a "yeah theres alot of options, but who cares?" they give us alot of light pistols, i've never seen a character that uses light pistols. they give us a big selection of assault rifles, but it doesn't matter since the Ares Alpha is still the best you can buy (cheaper than buying a AK97 and upgrading it, too). anyone who's a sniper now grabs the Desert Strike at character Creation.

as i said, as a weapons catalog for the player characters, not that thrilling. as a GM resource for outfitting NPCs, fantastic.
Method
First, let me concur with these many others- go buy Arsenal.

But in the interest of informed consent I will tell you that my biggest complaint (actually my only complaint really) is that some of the artwork sucks balls. Some of the artwork is really good- mostly the stuff recycled from previous gear and vehicle books plus some of the new gun drawings by biometal79. But a lot of the new stuff looks like it came out of a Jetsons cartoon, and thats just not the way I envision the dark gritty world of SR.

Now having said that, this is a pretty minor complaint, since the whole point of playing a PnP RPG is to use your imagination. I just disregard the silly pictures as it suits my fancy and revel in all the super-sweet awesomeness that is my Arse (sorry I couldn't help it). biggrin.gif
Reg06
Excellent. Thanks for all the great answers, I'll be picking it up fairly soon.
PlatonicPimp
Hey! I use light pistols all the time. Unlike SR3 they can now actually hurt someone.
reepneep
QUOTE (PlatonicPimp @ May 18 2008, 11:34 PM) *
Hey! I use light pistols all the time. Unlike SR3 they can now actually hurt someone.

The character I'm using right now is using holdouts and does pretty damn well for a non-sammy. He's a match for at least two mooks.
DocTaotsu
Also a light pistols fan. Especially since so many of them come in "Not detectable by MAD scanner" flavor.
DocTaotsu
Also a light pistols fan. Especially since so many of them come in "Not detectable by MAD scanner" flavor.
Sir_Psycho
QUOTE (Method @ May 18 2008, 12:46 PM) *
First, let me concur with these many others- go buy Arsenal.

But in the interest of informed consent I will tell you that my biggest complaint (actually my only complaint really) is that some of the artwork sucks balls. Some of the artwork is really good- mostly the stuff recycled from previous gear and vehicle books plus some of the new gun drawings by biometal79. But a lot of the new stuff looks like it came out of a Jetsons cartoon, and thats just not the way I envision the dark gritty world of SR.

I have to agree here. It's not only that some of the art was downright average, but the layout of images is horrible. Mismatched resolutions in completely different and jarring styles that are actually juxtaposed. To have one of biometal's drawings next to the "street sweeper" illustration (which by comparison, looks like a crayon drawing) is pretty bad.

Personally, I would have cut out the gear images that weren't biometals. We really don't need a picture for every gun.
CanRay
I do. With the stats so similar, the main reason to get a particular gun over another is style! Do you want something that goes along well with your Neo-Tux, or do you need something that will intimidate every fraggin' punk on the block while it's still in the holster!

That said, yeah, the jarring styles was kind of strange. It was more telling in the vehicles, where they included old pics in the 80s and early-90s styles of vehicles, beside the "Electric Shaver" cars.

...

Actually, I'm glad they included the old pics. I like how the older cars looked from previous editions!
Grinder
Just got the german version of the book - the new cover looks great, much better than the one of the english version smile.gif But the weapon pictures range from good to crappy, especially in the melee weapons part. Why can't only one artist be hired to do all pictures? I know that much art is recycled from older editions, but the resulting mix of styles looks bad.
DocTaotsu
Hey! I happen to like the English cover, ork Suicide Girls with anti-tank missiles rock!

I'd have to say the art is a mix primarily for financial reasons and also because it's notoriously hard to find good RPG artists on the cheap. CGL also hires a lot of freelancers so I'm sure it's hard to get a single person who's willing to commit to and undertaking like that. I mean... especially for Arsenal, that's a lot of goddamn art.
hobgoblin
anyone got a shot of the german cover?
Grinder
There you go.
DocTaotsu
Not going to lie, I like our cover better.

Is there a different German augmentation cover?
Grinder
QUOTE (DocTaotsu @ Oct 30 2008, 11:28 AM) *
Is there a different German augmentation cover?


Iirc there had been no decision made yet. But would be nice, I don't like the english cover.
hobgoblin
QUOTE (Grinder @ Oct 30 2008, 11:27 AM) *
There you go.

meh, i think i prefer the english one wink.gif
ravensmuse
I'm not a fan of the english Augmentation cover either. It's too plastic-y and Poser like.

Arsenal though, I love. And I ain't an ork kinda guy biggrin.gif
DocTaotsu
Yeah, not a fan of Aug's cover.
Cthulhudreams
The problem with arsenal is that it basically straight powers up your game across the board. FFBA in particular is a 'duh' moment. But it has some cool stuff - martial arts in particular makes melee fighters viable characters.

But I'd get street magic and augmentation over it, straight up.
hobgoblin
like augmentation or street magic is not a power up (move-by-wire, more initiation tricks, adept powers).
DocTaotsu
And uh... isn't that kind of the point of expansion books? To give players somewhere to go after they've bought everything in the core rulebook?

Arsenal's my table's favorite, everyone from the mage to hacker can find something they could use or would help flesh out their character. Securtech PPP can be kinda twinky but it also helps squishy characters die less quickly so it all even outs.

Besides, if the PC's can get it so can the opposition, it all balances.
psychophipps
QUOTE (Cthulhudreams @ Oct 30 2008, 04:22 AM) *
The problem with arsenal is that it basically straight powers up your game across the board. FFBA in particular is a 'duh' moment. But it has some cool stuff - martial arts in particular makes melee fighters viable characters.

But I'd get street magic and augmentation over it, straight up.


Have to agree here with a caveat that I thought that the martial arts rules aren't written well so a smart player will just mix and match the best bits from multiple martial arts (like every PC we've made since the book came out).

I give it a straight C+ grade for blatant fan service power creep and so many nonsensical factual errors as to make the firearm modification section a complete farce.
Ed_209a
QUOTE (Grinder @ Oct 30 2008, 06:27 AM) *
Whoa! I might have to print that out and tape it over my Arsenal cover.
Fuchs
QUOTE (DocTaotsu @ Oct 30 2008, 01:59 PM) *
Besides, if the PC's can get it so can the opposition, it all balances.


If they just add dp to everyone, since everyone needs them, then that's a sign the item design failed. Making everyone buy new stuff just so they stay the same is stupid.
DTFarstar
Not from a marketing standpoint.

Chris
Blade
I think that Augmentation and Street Magic add more to the game than Arsenal. Aug and SM have their share of "powerups" (which are hopefully not as overpowered as additional material in many other games) but they also give character new ways to do things (drone hand or possession traditions for example). Arsenal has a few of these, but has mostly "powerups". Besides while both SM and Aug have interesting fluff parts, Arsenal has just a quite useless (in my opinion) chapter about black market.

I am not saying that Arsenal is a bad book, but most of its content will help you munchkinize an existing character more than it'll give you new character concepts.
Fuchs
If only all new stuff would add options with advantages and drawbacks, and not straight power ups.
Wesley Street
QUOTE (Grinder @ Oct 30 2008, 05:27 AM) *

Bleh. Not a fan. I'll stick with my Anglophone cover.
cryptoknight
QUOTE (Fuchs @ Oct 30 2008, 07:45 AM) *
If only all new stuff would add options with advantages and drawbacks, and not straight power ups.



I completely agree here..

In order of usefulness I'd go

BBB
Runner's Companion
Arsenal
Street Magic
Unwired
Augmentation

I know there's a lot of cool stuff in Aug... but aside from customized cyberlimbs... I rarely put anything else from it in any of my cybered or bio'd characters. The stuff I care about in character creation is all in BBB now.
hobgoblin
QUOTE (Fuchs @ Oct 30 2008, 02:18 PM) *
If they just add dp to everyone, since everyone needs them, then that's a sign the item design failed. Making everyone buy new stuff just so they stay the same is stupid.


plus ca change... smokin.gif
Cthulhudreams
It doesn't have to come with drawbacks, there just has to be some sort of choice. Move by wire isn't that huge a powerup because its expensive, and you know, synaptic boosters may actually be better. There is actually a viable set of reasons to take either of them

Okay a couple of the spirits in SM are probably straight up better than the basic ones, but atleast I can pretend hey.

On the flip side, FFBA just makes everyones dicepools bigger. Hurray. Yuo have two choices

A) Wear FFBA

B) Suck. Or wear milspec, but that really isn't that much of a choice of 95% of the games.



Grinder
QUOTE (DocTaotsu @ Oct 30 2008, 11:28 AM) *
Is there a different German augmentation cover?


Just read in the Pegasus-boards that they'll bring up a new cover for the german version of Augmentation.
the_real_elwood
I thought Arsenal was good. More gear is always fun, and more bigger guns is EXTRA fun. But yeah, I agree that the weapon drawings in Arsenal are more than a little disappointing. A lot of them are low-res copies from older sourcebooks, and consequently the weapon drawings don't have any sort of consistent feel. That's my only gripe with the book, and it's really a pretty minor one. Other than that, anything you don't like about it, just don't allow in your group.
psychophipps
QUOTE (the_real_elwood @ Oct 30 2008, 05:02 PM) *
I thought Arsenal was good. More gear is always fun, and more bigger guns is EXTRA fun. But yeah, I agree that the weapon drawings in Arsenal are more than a little disappointing. A lot of them are low-res copies from older sourcebooks, and consequently the weapon drawings don't have any sort of consistent feel. That's my only gripe with the book, and it's really a pretty minor one. Other than that, anything you don't like about it, just don't allow in your group.


My personal favorite Arsenal pic is the Scout holdout pistol without a trigger guard so if a character (re)holsters it they shoot themselves.

Whee! indifferent.gif
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