@Modesitt : Base cost of 800 for 10 rounds and 16/2wk is cheap? Interesting...

It has tires? Two words: Run Flats

Collisions: the "fired drone" would have no application anywhere... Also, it can't count as a pedestrian, as it is a vehicle. Which means your truck would get screwed up to.

Stairs: Check FoF page 68. The SL has four "legs" which afford it independently maneuverable wheels. Lock the brakes and start climbing. As to ladders... ya, it'd be screwed Unless you did some extra playing around


And as to grenades and confined spaces: that "base power rating" thing is a killer, ain't it?

Grim Shear
"So there I was, sticking my finger in a socket..."

Anyone put a HVAR into a Steel Lynx loaded with AV rounds and decided to go for REAL "Robot Wars"?


Just...wondering...


L:

I thought C4 was detonated via electric charge?

the newest ammo to hit the street: magekillers! see, they're sheathed in junk optitronics, so they're too technical for your average armor spell to affect.

or, to be a bit more succinct: nothing good can come of this.

@Jason Farlander: The Vehicles and Magic section on P150 of SR3 says that vehicles have an OR of 8+body+(Armor/2).

On Base TNs: In the Sorcery Section on P182 of SR3 it says that spell TNs are either Body, Willpower, or OR. It also, however, states that other spells have specific TNs stated in their spell descriptions. I read that as "Spell description has priority", and it makes sense as otherwise you would be using the Body/Willpower of the subject as a TN to levitate them anyway.

On Minimum Force: I am not 100% sure this rule applies, certanly people have stated it previously when talking about Elemental manipulation spells vs Vehicles (did someone get a quote fron Rob Boyle about it? I'm not sure). Certanly applying it to everything (Levitate, Armor, Improved Invisibility, ETC) makes magic less powerful, and lets some stupid things happen (The technologically advanced bullets idea, the fact that better armoured drones are better at resisting illusions, ETC), but I think it technically could be within the rules so it's up-to the GM.

In general, I make it a point to limit the usefulness of low-force spells in my games. In the very specific cases of barrier and armor spells I ignore OR rules because such spells do not allow a resistance roll for anything, even unarmed combatants. If a spell effectively can not be resisted, then I do not apply object resistance. Makes sense to me. Furthermore, in these cases, the lower-force spells are simply less useful against anything, non-living objects included. So, while this may or may not be a strictly canon interpretation, it works just fine for me and I see no reason to change it.

However, levitate can be resisted by an unwilling target, and, even though objects do not get to check for resistance, I would consider them to be unwilling simply by default. I would apply OR in this case. OR is intended as a counterbalance to the fact that the object can not roll to resist the spell as a living object could, and I see no reason why manipulation spells should be able to bypass this.

Basically, I see the rules, as they stand, as a means of preventing characters from picking up large numbers of force 1 spells for the sole purpose of using them on objects. Force is a measure of the overall utility of a spell, and I like to keep it that way in regards to the number of targets the spell can affect (I am also backed by the books in this, but I think my own reasons are also sufficient).

Edit:
Lilt -- Ok. I dont use rigger 3 all too terribly often, as I rarely have players who want to play riggers (I require them to know all of the rules and be willing to take a test covering vehicle combat, electronic warfare, and general terminology before they can do so, which tends to discourage them).... but I see the reference. It doesnt make sense to me considering the categories on the OR table, but I guess they just wanted to make vehicles a little easier to affect with magic.

you'd do better lighting the c-4 on fire, then tossing a concussion grenade.

The MK3A2 offensive ("concussion") hand grenade has ~227 grams (8 ounces) of TNT in it. It would be much better for detonating the C-4 whether you set the C-4 on fire beforehand or not. If you can get the concussion grenade within ~20cm/8" of the explosive device, you're almost guaranteed a detonation. If the C-4 was on fire, I suppose that range could be as much as doubled, but that's just an uneducated guess.

Hey Ppl,

Thanks for all the nice answers and spinoff discussions.

My decition was to up the availabiliy of both the Strato-9 and the Steel Lynx and saying to my rigger, hey you need something to look up to. And he bought it.

I also ripped away his mini turret in his van since the Avail for that is also way to hi. Actually the only turret you can start with according to rigger3 revivised is a micro turret. We basically cut a deal. I take away your cool tools because they are too cool and would unbalance your game, and you can customize your van abit and stuff.

I suggested he took a Doberman and another spotter instead. He will be far from the powerbase he was with the Steel Lynx and the Strato-9. More in line with the rest of the group.

and again thanks for all the responses.

regards
Bjarte

Just make sure your other PCs are less powerful than standard and it would be alright.

This rigger might be less then standard able to do damage with his drones, but his wheels are hot.

He still has a micro turret with a Assault rifle in it, a Doberman with 2 other guns and a spotter drone. So he still can do the stuff, not just as good.

As a side note, i read in some fiction that the rigger did not care for the spotters cause they did not have guns. Is this a normal reaction in your games as well? Do security riggers/rigger pc's not take out spotting non armed drones? I take it for granted that they take down Strato-9. While it has very powerfull sensor equipemnt it lacks armour and that gun it has just say "shoot me".

So in some areas he is perhaps weeker then a starting rigger should be, but in others he is wizz.

riggers can be 'controlled' by keeping strict watch on their gear and downtime. don't always give them time to repair all their drones in between runs; enforce the fuel and optempo rules. the key to playing a good rigger isn't managing your toys--it's managing your time, so that you've got the toys you need at the time you need 'em.

My PCs usually take out spotter drones with a material nature spirit as soon as they can. Since the drone can't fire back, the spirit wins eventually and the spirit's interference really messes up the drone's spotting for indirect fire.

Can you start with a pop-up micro turret?

The regular turrets are one of those basically useless to shadowrunners things (in most campaigns).

You can start with a pop-up micro turret. Since the avail for its part is Turret Cost / 400 and the cost for a micro turret is 2500 = 6.

That is a pop-up remote mirco-turret that can hold a assault rifle or smaller arms.

Safe cracker guy?