You could just take mystic adept and put all your magic points towards spellcasting instead of powers. This would (RAW) save you 5 points.

Though you wouldn't have any astral perception (unless you diverted some points to the adept power) and never any astral projection. Those are important and useful powers.

Mystic Adepts (IIRC) don't have the ability to do the Astral stuff that Magicians can. To even be able to see Astral stuff requires an Adept Power for them.

Whether that loss is worth the 5 points is another question and likely varies from one game to another.

If you take the aspected mage qualities from Street Magic, you don't need to play around with mystic adepts. You can be a mage from as little as 5BPs if you just want to focus on one aspect of magic.

The full mage costs 15BP cos they have the most powers (astral, spellslinging and summoning).

A mystic adept who spends the points on astral perception, and gets the invoking metamagic actually has no real issue replicating the feats of a magician. They just need a guidance spirit in their tradition I think, as its great from power is astral gateway.

That's a lot of hurdles to jump through, as well as the time and karma you'll spend, to replicate what another character can do at character creation.

And not every tradition has access to Guidance spirits, of course.

One solid advantage Mystic Adepts have over regular Magicians is the ability to take "adept only" metamagics.

-paws

Yes, but they'll also have lower effective Magic than a true Magician with the same Magic score. A Mystic Adept MUST spend at least 1 Magic on power points in order to get the ability to astrally perceive. That means that, at a minimum, they cast spells at 1 die lower than a Magician with the same Magic score.

Let's not forget they are completely without the ability to astrally project and summon (which is the greater of the two missing abilities). Those abilities cannot be replicated later; only full magicians would ever have access to those.

Emphasis mine. Where did you get that idea?

-paws

I'm pretty sure they can summon, which is why possession tradition mystic adepts with channeling can be such a pain, cause they can boost all their physical stats by the force of the last spirit they summoned if they feel like it.

I imagine the mystic adept is the best route to becoming a Jedi!!
I mean, you get the fun bonuses to fight in melee, but you can also use levitate, mind control, and other nifty Jedi tricks.

I am SO writing up a Sith Lord for my group to tangle with later... Danke shune.

As noted above, the loss of the Astral aspects can be a hit Personally, though, if such a "Mystic Adept" crossed my table, I'd veto it.



A Mystic Adept is "a hybrid between Magicians and Adepts". If you allocate all your points to spells, you're not exploring your nature as a Mystic Adept, but an astrally gimped Magician. I'm explicitly within my rights to shut that down.

As I recall, don't the descriptions of Adept, Magician, and Technomancer have similar clauses?

-paws

Question is, 'why would you bother to'?
If the player doesn't want to deal with the Astral, then I don't see a problem with that. They would be limited in their ability to do recon, or have any fun on the metaplains.

If I could get just the astral portion of being a mage (making wards, projection and perception) for the 5 points the PC is "saving"... I'm not sure what I'd do... Take it on every character I ever build who even vaguely appropriate who isn't going to be cybered to the gills? I'm of the opinion Mystic Adept is slightly over priced, definitly so if you are disregarding the Physical Adept tricks you could be swinging.

I fully understand and agree with where you are coming from here. This screams of extreme munchkinism, so a NO is something I'd be inclined to start with. However, as I think about it, I'm generally more cruel than just saying no. In fact, after thinking about it or a moment, this is what I would call Bad munchkinism because its something that is way to easy for a gm to exploit.

I'd probably take a moment to ask the player if they really thought that being astrally helpless was worth 5 bp. If they didn't understand what I was getting at I'd explain the risks. If they still wanted to go this route I figure I've got one of 2 situations. Either the player is new and doesn't really know what they are getting into (especially after a GM warning of how dangerous it could be). If this is the case I'd try to educate the player or guide them to something more suited to their experience level as a last resort. Or, the player has something in mind and is willing to risk things for 5 bp. In this case I'd ask for more information on the concept and see what we could come up with. This wouldn't make the character immune from astral torment though.

Edit: Of course, although this is not RAW (I think, I don't have my book with me so I could be wrong), a GM could rule that if a Mystic Adept ever had zero magic points allocated to Power Points or pure Magic then they loose the that ability and aspect forever. This isn't far from the mage whose Magic dips to 0 for one reason or another; even if they still had room to raise it via karma, its too late. This type of ruling would force the above example Mystic Adept to consider buying some Adept powers at the get go, thus reducing their magic, or lose that as an option later, meaning no buying astral perception or adept only metamagics later.

Astral projection is just so darn useful, it's worth the five points. Besides spell slingers almost need astral perception(to erase their sigs), which means at the very least you will be 1 magic down from a magician.

Like background count? which actually reduces a characters magic score?

Temporarily at least...

Actually that's no exactly true. The player can state that he is intending to explore his nature as a Mystic Adept in game. Then you no longer have the right to shut it down based on that part of the Quality. Furthermore, all he needs to do to justify not having adept powers is simple, his teacher never did encourage him to explore that side of his nature. A Mystic Adept being tutored in the ways of magic by a Magician for example. The Magician master doesn't have adept capability so he can't teach his pupil how to do so.

I will not be so quick to shut down such a character concept based on his allocating all his points to his Magician side. After all, all Awakened Qualities start with just Magic 1 and you can't allocate half a point.

Toturi, SM states you can save partial points for later use. That is in effect, allocation of less than a whole point.

Otherwise, I'm onboard with you.

Got a page quote for that?

The only partial point rule I got is the one in SR4 - p187. "Characters can save partial points if they choose." But this applies to partial Power Points, not points of Magic.

My bad, I referring to Power Points, not Magic per se. I took your original post as referring to Power Points, not Magic.

As a GM, a person can restrict any quality they want for whatever reason they want. Just because a player parrots a line in the book, doesn't give it a free pass. *IF* I was inclined to say no to a player for this (not likely as I've already said I'd use other methods to discourage the type of power gaming suggested by the OP), I'd insist on a more detailed explanation and background to demonstrate how they meant that? Furthermore, a GM is well within their right to insist that a person can't "explore his nature as a Mystic Adept" without having any "Adept" in the mix.



If this was the answer I got, I'd ding them 5 BP, make sure they had enough space left in their positive BP, and then make them a magician matching the order of their teacher. Shamans don't learn how to be mages from Hermetics, and Magician Way Mystic Adepts don't learn how to spell sling from the others. At least not in my game.



As I said earlier, I woudn't simply say no. If it was a case where I thought the player was trying to pull a fast one just to skimp on some BP (for example an Eagle Shapeshifter Mystic Adept ... who by being dual natured only loses the speed of pure astral projection), then I'd say no. My earlier comment about not having allocated points to both aspects obviously is in relation to a full character and not a Magic 1 pupil type. If I had a player that said they wanted to explore the nature of being a recently awakened Mystic Adept, with a Magic of 1, I'd be all for that and would let them advance both aspects. That being said, any GM would be well within their rights to insist that a character like this use the 2nd magic point on the aspect not focused on with the first (for example Mystic Adpet with Magic 1 can sling spells then at Magic 2 they get a power point).

Earlier it was stated that an advantage of Mystic Adepts is getting the Adept only Metamagics. Even if a GM didn't care how the player split their magic, I feel they'd be well within their rights to deny a Mystic Adept with no Adept power access to Adept only metamagics. The simple argument is that you have no adept abilites and therefore do not qualify.

Just my thoughts though.

Why bother?
As you have already pointed out, it would be unlikely that you would object to such a concept at all.
And i wouldn't particularly call such an approach powergaming, either.
It's more like a rather unelegant and shortsighted attempt at overspecialization if we view it from a merely mechanical perspective- i wouldn't sueeze points out of a build this way, it would impose way too many limitations on the flexibility of the character which i wouldn't consider worth the 5 BP gained.



Besides the fact that there's a lot of people learning magic in college, often from teachers hailing from different traditions and that casters from various traditions have developed a unified theory of magic, enabling Hermetics to spontaneously summon spirits and Shamans to bind them for a prolonged period of time, techniques both unavailable to the respective traditions before said scientific breakthroughs during the late 2060's, indicating that mutual learning across tradition boundaries is indeed possible, although difficult...
I think you are making a very fundamental mistake here, mixing up qualities and traditions.
The magic Qualities are something you are born with, whereas traditions are something acquired later in life.
Mystic adepts are found within several traditions, there's Hermetic mystic adepts as well as Shamanic ones, for example.
I see no reason why they shouldn't be able to learn the Magician aspect from someone who only comprehends one half of their potential.
There is no difference between how a Hermetic Magician and a Hermetic Mystical Adept sling spells or summon spirits; the difference between the two lies in the fact that the magician is unable to learn adept powers while the mystic adept is unable to interact with astral space.



Dual-natured beings are particularly hurt by being unable to project, to a degree where i wouldn't want to play such a character who isn't at the same time a full-fledged magician.
But then, wards are exceedingly common in my game, so the inability to astrally stalk a ward's creator to mimic their signature may be more detrimental at my table.




I wouldn't enforce an even distribution of points between the two aspects, as i see no reason in the published material to assume that a stronger focus on one aspect isn't possible.
Moreover, i believe it to be quite possible that a character may,unconsciously or through inapropriate training -try finding a Hermetic adept teacher!- block a part of his full magic potential and only realizes that part of his inborn powers after a catalytic or even world-shattering event in life, reaching from personal trauma or exposure to a strong, aspected background count to intoxication with rare awakened compounds to deep, personal insight gained from intense arcane studies.
Portraying such an experience ingame yields ample opportunity for interesting roleplaying- in fact, i would rather see such events come up during the game than in the character's backstory.



I fully agree on this point, though.
Having allocated no points towards a specific aspect to me means that this aspect is yet dormant.
The PC would have to activate it first before gaining access to appropriate metamagic techniques.

Was wondering if you guys could help me out with mystic adepts. Having never created one or had a PC make one, they seem either really broken or really gimped.

here are a few questions about them.

1. a mystic adept allocates 65 build points and raises their magic to 6. they then allocated 3 magic points to spells and 3 to adept powers. Would they use a magic of 6 for all of their maximum benefits and magic based rolls when casting spells? For example. When rolling to cast a spell will it be Magic (6) + Spellcasting or will it be Magic (3) + Spellcasting.

2. Overcasting: Would their overcast level be force 7 or force 4?

as I understand it while away from my books:

1: magic 3 + spell casting
2: overcasting at force 4

they seem weak, but those 3 power points can be used to make you FAR less dependant on the rest of the team for muscle/ speed and who cares if your force 6 stunbolt is over-cast? You probably aren't taking drain anyway.

I tend to prefer a larger imbalance myself 5 adept 1 mage or vise-versa, but thats just a matter of taste

Depends on your interpretation of the rules. The wording for that section is NOT particularly clear and can be read to say two entirely different things.

I second that. Sadly, this most compelling argument I've found has to do with how they were treated in SR3.

Technically, according to the FAQ, Screaming Eagle is correct.

-paws

I considered the other way it could work and I found it overpowered them moderatly hard.
As it stands with the 3/3 split if you go the combat mage route you can get 3 IP (or 2 IP and some tricks) and can toss 2-3 lowish drain spells (stunbolt, stench, and a full auto AK spray) at force 5 per turn really quite easily.

I undersatnd in SR4A the "wired reflexes" adept power got a bit of a cost discount so this build gets some more milage.

SR4 FAQ

Deny the existence of the FAQ. It is full of bullshit.

I'm still wondering why wording akin to the FAQ wasn't added to SR4A, instead of leaving it as the exact same confusing language that was used in the original SR4 book. It's not like they didn't know that the old wording was sucktastically confusing for new players...

Because even they in their confusion know that Mystic adepts are gimped and couldn't bear themselves to clarify it.

Only things really going for a mystic adept over a normal adept... full access to all metamagics and all types of focii (including power focus boosting both their spellcasting and adept powers). And the ability to learn some specialty skills like counterspelling (and shielding).


As far as the evil GM's... why screw a mystic adept because he went 100% one way in chargen. As it is, he could have saved 5BP and gone straight adept, or he could have not made the fools bargain and spent the extra 5 for full magician. I don't see either example above as power gamed. Especially if the character is looking to develop the other side slowly in play.

Example: I was looking to try out a full blown bear sark as a mystic adept... start him out as a medidept/gun adept... then slowly develop his actual mystical 'healing' powers in play later by picking up some actual healing spells and devoting points to magic. I don't think that's a bad character concept or plan.

Also, digital grimoire had one of the best new focus types ever for any adept.. the one which can have new powers put into it...(I love it that they use assensing as the example)... For just a little bit of karma to bind, now any adept can have astral perception, and the great thing is the focus is only active while they're astrally percieving, so it's not too much of a drawback. Though the lack of ability to project is still a HUGE drawback. Though, I really don't understand the full ramifications of how to design, make or make full use of those yet.

I, sir, disagree. Don't think of them as Mages who can't astrally perceive; think of them as Adepts who can sling spells and summon spirits.

Let's make one, shall we?

Commando Dan:


Commando Dan has a piddling spellcasting pool except for healing spells; considering that's all he has, that's a good thing! (Magic 2 + Power Foci 2 + Spellcasting 4 + Mentor Spirit 2 + Inevitable Specialization 2 = 12). Since the spells he starts with will never be resisted, he doesn't really need that much of a dice pool anyway.

Similarly, he is also weak on the spirit front, except for plant or earth spirits (choose one) : (Same Dice Pool as above). His tradition is possession based, so as soon as he picks up the karma for initiation, he will get channeling and become a beast in combat. Force 2 spirits are Good Enough for our purposes: Immunity to Normal Weapons at 4, a +2 bonus across the board to physical stats, as well as the spirit's powers on command.

His drain pool is weak, but his spells are pretty weak in drain req's except for Increase Reflexes; even then, he's not likely to take more than one or two boxes of stun. He also has Resist Pain (which is a permanent spell) to overcome wound penalties from any drain damage.

He also gets a healthy 7 dice to resist spells coming his way.

On the adept front, nothing fancy. He gets up close and pounds you to death. I'm not sure if Elemental Strike gives Sound's ability to ignore armor or not, but the secondary effect makes it more than worth the .5 pp even without bypassing armor.

Tomorrow, I'll make a Face Mystic Adept. Fear the Jedi Mind Tricks!

Well if you spend 2.5 out of the 3 Power points on increased reflexes then you are right, but if you only spend 1.5 for level 1, then you might as well go with full magician and get cyber/bioware. For 1 point of Essence I can cram in a LOT of 'ware.

My Chaos Mage has the following:

Cybereyes with Lowlight, Thermo, Vision Enhance 3, and Flare Comp
Cyberears with Audio Enhance 3 and Dampener
Cyberhand with Reuseable Auto-injector (with 6 Extra doses), Commlink, Biomonitor, Datajack, and Orientation System
Synaptic Booster 1
Muscle Augmentation 1

The power point cost of all that is about 4.75 and even then you can't replicate some of what my character can do (commlink and injector).

Don't forget a Mystic Adept cannot take advantage of the "Powerpoints for metamagic" optional rule, leaving them in serious trouble when it comes to adept powers. It's just not worth it to do anything but take a few minor amounts of adept powers and do the rest as magic. That said, a trauma damper and platelet factory is a quick way to make your mage into a drain soaking banishing machine for low force spells and spirits.

Octopii:
Possession traditions are one of the worst things they've ever published. They should have been left as something only fit for a toxic or bug shaman and out of the realm of players. You can disagree... but anything which gives a player character ItNW at a high force as well as cheap across the board stat boosts is a bad thing.

The problem which mystic adepts have is that they're karma sinks.. even worse than magicians. Their karma costs scale just like the others, but having to split means you get reduced effect from either. Then I think it was the FAQ where they put down even more, where it clears that mystic adepts don't get to use their full magic rating for all things adept-wise, but instead use their lower split total.

Mystic adepts very easily slide into the trap of jack of all trades... master of none. As you need to devote a lot of points to spellcasting to use it well. Needing to 'lose' a power point (or an initiation + focus) to astrally percieve is crippling as well to a mage (plus more points into assensing). Then having the inability to project really hurts, as that's the one unique power of a full mage which tends to make them exceptionally dangerous (astral recon, forewarned is forearmed, fully astral is also 3IP's w/o any cyber/increase ref, mobility enough to make any dual natured or ground limited target absolutely miserable... fly + ranged direct spell).


Hopefully this is now out of date (FAQ 2006... SR4A has wording which hasn't changed which is incompatible with this)
"The Magic points allocated towards Magic-based skills counts for all aspects of those skills. This includes: Magic-linked skill tests (Summoning, Spellcasting, Enchanting, etc.), overcasting, and maximum spell Force, for example.

For power points and Magic when used by adept powers, only the points allocated towards adept powers apply. This includes Attribute Boost Tests and the like.

For all other purposes -- i.e., non-Magic-linked skills -- the mystic adept's full Magic attribute is used: pressing through astral barriers, initiation grade limit, Masking metamagic, and so on. "

One of the aspects which made mystic adepts playable was that they didn't get a lot of dice, but they could still cast/use attribute boost at the full magic rating... unless this FAQ is still current.


Hagga:
1. unless the power specifically says otherwise, mystic adepts can take ANY metamagic (magician or adept).
2. Anyone who allows metamagics for power points is a fool. It's an optional rule and completely unnecessary at that, especially w/ the explosion of available metamagics in street magic.
3. Anyone who allows metamagics w/o initiation for a mere 15karma is a fool. (another optional rule)

4. Slightly off topic, but I have zero issues if anyone wants to research an adept metamagic to give them astral perception, then an advanced metamagic to extend that to astral projection.

I have no issues w/ 3... but 3 paired w/ 2 is just wrong... classic case of nobody testing two optional rules together adequately.

Lets put this in another view... what's it normally take to get a ton of magic..
Initiation at 10+(3xgrade) * 60% discount (group + ordeal)
Raise Magic (5xLevel)
Metamagic Technique w/o initiation (flat 15)

See where one of those costs is rediculously low and non scaling. Maybe if it was set at 30... it'd make more sense and even then I'd be very wary of it (remember that cost was set when magic rating was 3x rating to raise, not 5x)

I don't know about you, but as a mystic adept I'd rather take the power points than the metamagics. About the only things I can ever conceive of wanting (granted, when playing anything with "adept" in the title I tend to act like a sammy) are absorption and the pre-req. It's just not worth it, regardless of your playstyle since you really need bigger dice pools to make the rest worthwhile. I'm not going to attune for one-two extra dice, and I'm sure as hell not going to bond an animal companion.

Okay... I can think of a few off the top of my head. Making this list w/ the thought that most people practically never see more than 3-4 initiate grades.

Adept Centering: remove dice pool penalties equal to iniatiate grade! (there's a lot of sources of negatives... especially used by evil GM's to make players squirm). Also opens up some Mr. Lucky lines of attack (called shot to bypass armor for example). Other things such as reducing wound penalties or the like also come to mind.

Infusion: requires adept centering.... okay I can supercharge my adept abilities for a little bit of temporary burnout and minimal drain. NICE (even better is if you use an infusion focus, focus is inactive for a little while after using it and you don't temporarily lose powers).

Masking: Appear Mundane or as lesser or greater magic... usefull

Item Attunement: I disagree with you on, it's very character dependant though. If you're playing a bad to the bone street racer.. you might want to specially bond with your ricing bike. Similarly, I can see a gun adept attuning his favorite security blanket *delete* pistol :).


Iffy: Somatic Control... cool but drain is a bit of a bummer.



Mystic Adepts:
Extended Masking: If you're a mystic adept using spells and sustaining focus... almost a no brainer.
Cleansing: Mystic adepts tend to have more problems with background counts than other magicians. When your dice pool is smaller to begin with, and you're more reliant on tools (power focus, etc.). They really tend to hurt... the ability to temporarily wipe them out helps a lot.

plus many of the magician only ones as appropriate.

Also, a mystic adept prone to overcasting for physical drain might like both centering and adept centering (first removes penalties... such as visibility penalties, second gives a big boost to drain soak dice). The text to me reads that so long as the centering action is taken, both affects apply.

Perhaps so! It's RAW, however, so I feel no problems with Commando Dan. Even if you change him to a materialization tradition, he is still pretty powerful, though I would probably drop the Summoning and Binding Skills and give him more Body instead.



You seem to think the points devoted to spellcasting are wasted? Commando Dan has a much increased survivability thanks to his spell casting ability, and he can continue to learn new spells. Being able to cast Improved Reflexes was worth the 16 bp, as it saves the 2.5 pp that would have been wasted giving him an equivalent amount of IP via Adept powers. That's 25-16 = 9 BP saved as far as I'm concerned, PLUS he gets access to counterspelling (useful) and many useful spells.



How many Adepts bother to learn Astral Perception? A Mystic Adept is not a mage - he's an Adept that can crib Mage powers. Stop thinking of him as a mage; he doesn't need to astrally perceive any more than an Adept needs to. They get through life just fine without Projecting or Perceiving, so why is it suddenly armageddon for an Adept with the ability to cast spells and summon spirits not to be able to access the astral either? Let the mage handle astral work, it's their job.

Mr. Charm:


Mr. Charm is pretty much your standard Face-type Adept, with the additional ability to rape your mind, protect against spells, and dispel other's spells. His adept powers give him abilities that your standard charisma based mage doesn't have access to. "But he has no summoning!" I hear you cry out. Skills are pretty cheap to learn; if you feel he needs spiritual back up you can always pick it up in play. Summoning 1 + Specialization is only 6 Karma.

At the cost of Drain, & non-continuous use. No, this is not 'saved points'. Yes, it is cheaper. It is also far less effective.



You must be able to use Astral Perception to erase your astral signatures, so yes, a Mystic has much greater need of that ability than an Adept.


Mystic Adepts are viable only as long as you play an Adept with minor magical ability (select low-Force spells &/or Counterspelling), or a Magician with select Adept powers.

Please enlighten me on how that is not saved points. It does the same thing, for less resources: Cheaper, thus more effective. I can also pick up a 4th initiative pass, something that is heinously expensive to do via any other method, for the minor price of the -2 sustaining penalty. Oh, and throw on an Improved Reflexes on on of my slower comrades at Force 3 and sustain it with my focus.

You make Drain sound like a Big, Terrible thing. It's not. Force 3 Improved Reflexes: 3 drain. I'm likely to take away 2 of that with my drain pool; and if we're planning on doing a run the next day I can always cast it the night before. If you're really anal, you can always learn it as a limited spell and use a fetish for 2 more drain dice, giving you a very good chance of not taking any damage.



Or if you select your spells intelligently. Commando Dan has no spells that he needs to worry about being assensed, as they are all going to be cast upon himself.

At least the Possession magician has to expose his ItNW-protected hide to danger - the Materialization guy can send in the spirit while the magician is safe from direct harm. The Materialzation guy also gets more actions as both the magician and the spirit can act seperately while Possession guy only gets one set.

It also makes a big difference if the Materialization guy chain summons - getting the next spirit out just as the first one is dismissed becuase it was taking too much damage. Just saw this in action last session with the teams magician and it's very effective. The Possession guy has more vulnerability if he tries this approach since he has to wait until the new spirt takes an action to possess him before he gets his ItNW back up.

An Adept with the power doesn't need a spell or sustaining focus to do that. He never has to worry about it being dispelled or the focus being lost or stolen (not to mention he doesn't need to buy the focus, which is expensive, or pay the karma to bind it either).

He also doesn't have to worry about how to spend 4.5 power points. The Mystic Adept does worry about those 4.5 power points, and he can get some pretty sweet stuff with them on top of his spell-provided 4 IPs.

An adept with this power also has to spend half his PP to achieve the same effect. Even if the focus is lost somehow, that does not prevent the Mystic Adept from casting the spell anyway - a -2 sustaining penalty is acceptable for a quadrupling of actions. If we're going to get into theoretical worries, the adept with the Improved Reflexes power has to worry about getting ganked with a Force 12 stunbolt much more so than the Mystic Adept with his 4 counterspelling (and the inevitable +2 combat specialization). Besides, if your focus is taken off your body, you have a bigger thing to worry about than lost nuyen.

Edit: Jinx!

Yes, I'm just saying, there are some advantages to going with the adept power rather than the spell. Whether or not those advantages are worth the cost is a matter of opinion. I'd rather get the Synaptic Booster bioware, since it ends up costing less magic points than the adept power (1.5 compared to 4.5). Even a full magician can arguably afford to lose only 1 pt of Magic for a permanent +2 initiative passes!

I'm pretty much on page w/ Muspellheimr here... Mystic adepts work best when they have a clear focus.

You're almost making the point when you keep putting up examples reliant on focuses and sustained spells to bring them up to par. And those -2 cum's can hurt... if you only have 1, maybe 2... it's not too bad... but those penalties add up (especially on some of your other skills such as say perception where you may only have 10 to start).


I hesitate to say aspected, as the flaw is a bit too severe for it's cost IMO.

EG: I'm going to aspect the mystic adept to make the ultimate medic... specialization health spells, mentor spirit heatlh spells... (even better if the spirit type aligns w/ health spells for aid sorcery). Okay now.. even w/ 2 points in spellcasting.. he can roll those 8,9,10 dice for a heal check after making a massive first-aid. Though when you look at a build like that, you end up spending on a lot on focii to boost things (which makes background counts hurt... as you'll lose multiple dice). Though you end up w/ enough adept points to be a reasonable pistol adept/ninja or similar as well, and reasonable if not stellar in combat.



Mr Charm has a 'facial' problem... social tests are made w/ Cha + skill... but are resisted with Wil + skill... outside of his one trick he's awful. You couldn't use him for any kind of negotiations. Using manipulation spells outside of combat is just asking for some really bad juju.

Re: magic... adept power and the mage power are not the same... to get the same effect the mage would also need to sustain both Increase Reaction and Increase Reflexes. The only drawback to the bioware is cost (bigtime nuyen... but even then BP-wise outside of the avail and outright cost... it ends up being cheaper by far... and freeing up far more points of magic for other adept powers). The only other drawback is for healing, you take both the -essence penalty, and the awakened -2 penalty... making it a bit harder to heal.