Did Dikote make it to SR4? If so, where can I find it? If not, does anyone know why?

Dikote was not converted to SR4, primarily because many, many people had become rather disenfranchised with it.

From a rules point of view, Dikote was removed because it was too much bang for the buck. If it's so good that you would have to be crazy to not buy it, then it does not really add to the game.

From a fluff point of view, just assume that everything that would benefit from Dikote already has it, so it is built in to the SR4 stats.

Fair enough. Thanks for the quick response.

Like how Firepower bullets became the standard bullets in the SR1 to SR2 switch

Check an older mages ally spirit, especailly sexxed up ones. Or you can search for the legendary dikoted parasol, but that's rarer than something really really really rare.

So, for those of us who only got into the game in 4e, what is dikote?

http://wiki.dumpshock.com/index.php/Dikote

Lars

A process used by muchkins to construct a Katana that can cut through a Tank.

a very expensive Prozess of putting a sheeth of "Diamondust" on a Blade to make it sharper
As a SR4 Houserule for those who can't be without it. Give 'em a AP-1 Bonus

with a Dance to "Diamonds are Forever"
Medicineman

I've heard of that houserule in use, and it's actually not a bad one. It also makes blades a bit more tempting(since most folks seem to stick with unarmed, even though you can still pump Blade damage to +3 just like unarmed...)

In SR3 Dikote could also be added to drones to increase their body rating, or boost body armor rating by 1.

As stated it could also make katanas/arrows able to go through vehicles much easier.

Dikote is so stupid from a materials science standpoint that it makes my brain hurt.

SR is so stupid from a materials science standpoint that it makes my inner scientist go look for a drink and my inner ridiculous sci-fi/fantasy geek go squee. Dikote is completely unrealistic and also pretty cool. And honestly, in SR3 it made better swords but not swords that were especially unbalanced compared to the power of the rest of the system.

And, well, I think my name says something about my feelings on the subject.

I always got it in SR3 because you never knew when you might have cut you way through a foot thick steel blastdoor with just your knife. Yes, that is insane....

dikote + claymore vs. drones = can opener.

Whenever something is so stupid good that you become retarded for not having it, that should be a warning sign. I, for one, disagree with your "also pretty cool" assessment.

Cutting through a foot of steel with a knife is cool. Ridiculous and possibly gamebreaking, but cool.

Stupid good? Yes. Dikote prices are absurdly high if you want to coat something large but absurdly low if you want to put it on a dagger or, my personal favorite (despite my name her), cyberweapons. Everything is strictly better with dikote on it.

Is it a gameplay problem? I haven't found it to be one. Dikote warriors are still no match for shotguns or automatic weapons. It's a neat toy for GMs and for the players who enjoy tricking out their characters. Yes, power gamers get to have fun too. As long as balance doesn't die and the rule of cool is obeyed, where's the problem? Okay, everyone dikotes everything. Is that any different from stainless steel or the dominance of more IPs?

If the bulkhead needs to hold, it's toughened or dikoted itself and will stand up to your can opener claymore. That's what GMs are paid (metaphorically, alas!) to do: make the adventures not break. But being able to hack down the solid steel door or tear down the walls sometimes? That is indeed cool.

Why are you guys complaining about it being unrealistic?
Scientists made the stuff from Tequilla for Franks sake ^^

From what I remember, dikote, like firepower ammo was added in the SSC to make heavy pistols and bladed weapons actually good for something. Since armored jackets provided reasonable protection from anti-tank missiles in SR1, you needed any damage edge you could get.

Personally, I think the two most egregious excesses of Dikote were the Damage LEVEL increase for bladed weapons (for a total of +1 power, +1 power level) which would make blades do S damage instead of M... and the anti-armor capability it granted.

If you wanted to convert it to SR4, I'd suggest adding +1 damage, +1 AP. Make it like Ex-Ex for sharp shit.

Dikote treated Combat Axe for the win.

-paws

~hmm?~ In SR3 barrier ratings where used normally instead of doubled against melee weapons with Dikote, but against personal or vehicular armor no anti-armor effect occured.

That's possibly what I was thinking of. I just recall it wrecked the shit out of doors.

Yeah, Dikote, the one-hit-wonder.
Nothing like shooting an entire full long burst of bullets from your vindicator at someone wearing heavy milspec armor and seeing the bullets bounce off of him.
Nothing like ripping the same guy apart with your Spur or something like that doing 16+S+ Damage ^^

I prefer the Dikoted Laser Crescent Axe for sheer distilled stupidity...

Which was another problem with it -- by the rules, pretty much any weapon was allowed. So you got shit like Cougar Fineblades or Kris knives getting dikoted...giving you a ridiculously concealable and ridiculously lethal edged weapon.

I didn't say it was unrealistic. I said it was Stupid. Diamond is brittle. Very Brittle. The first time you hit something hard with that Diamond coated Ax, the coating is going to shatter. And due to how diffusion of materials works, that steel blade, which was turned into cementite from the coating process, is going to shatter too.

Exactly.
There's a reason modern-day blades aren't manufactured to be as hard as possible. Quite the opposite, in fact. They are quite flexible on the whole, apart from the very center of the blade doing the actual cutting.
There are industrial applications of galvanizing stuff with a thin layer of diamond dust. Making bladed weapons TEH PWNZOR ain't one of them...

The extra angry variety of diamond used in dikote ™ has much more molecular motion than regular diamond. This means the carbon atoms in the lattice are further apart, granting the extra angry diamonds more flexibility than the less angry type of diamonds. That's why your dikoted ™ sword doesn't break...

I though it was the Elf blood?

Then it's not Diamond. Then It's graphite. Which doesn't help.

Like many things in shadowrun, if you know anything about a field, you think Shadowrun has done stupid things with it.

ok being serious here. whats the difference in dikote andd the process for making daimond saws? you know like the ones that can cut just about anything. i was using one to carve brick pavers and it made me wonder.

A scientist tried to say that the extra angry diamonds were, in fact, graphite. But then a bunch of extra angry diamonds showed up at the poor guys house. You never saw a retraction paper get through the peer review process faster...

From what I remember bladed weapons used to have very low staging numbers, which made them basically useless against any type of armor, unless you were an adept with alot of automatic successes. Dikote upped the power level and staging by one, so that non-adepts could actually hurt people in any sort of armor with bladed weapons. So your sword might have gone from something like 5M1 to 6M2 when it was dikoted.

But since SR2 was pushed out pretty soon after Shadowtech came out, they had to some up with some SR2 stats for it. And since they changed how staging and penetration worked in SR2, dikote suddenly became much better. It would have been better it, like firepower ammo, they just relegated it to the dustbin of history.

Its almost like its Science fiction.

But hey I'm fairly sure we wont learn something about science that in the next 70 years that we thought was impossible, unlike every other 70 year batch since the dawn of time. Because now, we know we got it right.

If you want your materials science to be okay, stop calling it diamond and start calling it something else. Dikote could be the generic form of the Ares Diamondcoat™ process, which involves no diamonds but is called that anyway because diamonds are both hard and cool. It's a coating that makes sharp things sharper. Live with it or toss it from your world.

I'll grant the ridiculousness of concealed dikoted weapons (a troll with a pair of dikoted spurs for something like 16S without any 'ware beyond spurs is even more ridiculously concealed). I still don't think it's necessarily a disaster. Melee damage is already hard to stage up in SR3. A little boost won't break the game.

Hardened armor is just weird. Sometimes a pistol can pierce it but an assault rifle can't? I'm dubious.

We had a troll with max strength, a massive bow, and dikote arrows. His arrows did more damage than a panther assault cannon... But for SR4, agree with an earlier poster - a +1 dmg and -1 AP would be a nice little bonus.

You don't need Dikote for the more Damage with Arrows.
Just massive Ammounts of strength and something to lower your target number.
Only with blades there was the +1 damage and +1 power. For Arrows, use Ranger-X and Exploding Tips, Rambo Style. 22M Damage. Just like that.
But use Dikote on a Pole-Arm . . on a Troll . . Reach of 3, Damage=STR+4D. 20D damage with either a +3 for the other guy or a -3 for yourself in terms of Target Number.
Not all that stealthy, i agree. Silent but deadly comes to mind here somehow ^^ And you CAN cut through Cars and Buildings with that thing too . .
Using Core Book Close Combat and two Spurs would make Spur Damage actually Strength+(Strength/2). So with 16 STR that would be 24M. Then Dikote both for 26S.
Yes, this is more POWER-NIVEAU than even a Vindicator can get. Certainly more than the Ares Great Dragon ATGM with 20D AV Damage.
But you know what? SO WHAT? Trolls are freaking 3 meter tall muscle-men. They are supposed to do silly levels of Damage like that.

But use Dikote on a Pole-Arm . . on a Troll . . Reach of 3, Damage=STR+4D. 20D....
I Think that THIS is exactly why there is no more Dikote in SR4

Hough!
Medicineman

I disagree. Melee should never even come close to beat heavy weapons in terms of damage. No matter who wields it.

So, a Dragon should not deal as much Damage either?
Or ANY Big/ger Critter?
Heavy Weapons should be the be all/end all?
Even in a World where Magic and Science work together?
And the heavy Weapons can deal that kinda Damage over Distances of up to 2000m
While the Troll can't deal his Damage over more than 2m. Well, aside for the Bow.

Yes. Heavy weapons should be the be all, end all regarding damage done by portable ranged or melee weapons. Which implies that even a Great Dragon's claw should not equal a Great Dragon's warhead.

You didn't really need to dikote it to get "sheer distilled stupidity" out of that weapon, you know.

-paws

Bah! That's no fun.

For some, blowing away big critters with big weapons is fun. I have D&D to play if I want to pit swords against dragons in melee combat.

We blew up a Feathered Serpent with a Great Dragon ATGM once.
Mature at most, not Great Dragon. My character(yeah, troll with Cybered Arms strength 15) had been boxing with the winged snake for 2 Rounds and went down in the third round with one box overflow Damage. Then came the boom. And i only lost, because i FORGOT about his Dikote Spurs <.< . . yeah, i wasn't really there that evening . . at least mentally. Still one of the most epic moments in our Games. My character got rescued and sent to his relatives in the Troll Kingdom in the AGS because he frigging boxed with a Dragon and it looked like he might win at one point ^^

I'm not arguing against that. I just think it's more fun if the big critter rips a tank in half with his bare claws before you get to blow him away with ridiculous weaponry.

Oh, no. That would make me walk away from the table at once. I am not playing godzilla, where tanks are monster food.

To each their own.

BAH HUMBUG!