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Dr.Rockso
QUOTE (otakusensei @ Jun 8 2010, 04:22 PM) *
You read my mind. Shadowrun and Battletech seriously need some time apart.

but...but...Battlerun....
lehesu
I happen to think that Battletech has quite a lush and detailed world surrounding it.
hobgoblin
QUOTE (Udoshi @ Jun 8 2010, 09:23 PM) *
Did the writers actually do anything with that, aside from that one story piece in the core book? Game, set, match i think it was?

well the main person behind that is no longer with the company, iirc, so it may well be dead.

but there was a mention of netcat getting a bit "bloated" in one of the chapter fictions related to the city "nomad", iirc.

oh wait, it was the technocritters chapter of running wild.
Abstruse
QUOTE (lehesu @ Jun 8 2010, 02:34 PM) *
I happen to think that Battletech has quite a lush and detailed world surrounding it.

I got into role playing through BattleTech, but fell in love with it in Shadowrun. The world's interesting, but the story's got stagnant after the initial clan invasion IMO...
Caadium
QUOTE (Abstruse @ Jun 8 2010, 01:24 PM) *
I got into role playing through BattleTech, but fell in love with it in Shadowrun. The world's interesting, but the story's got stagnant after the initial clan invasion IMO...


I think that there was a lot of fun stuff after the invasion; it's just too bad that they ran Stackpole off when they did.
Dr.Rockso
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Nov 2 2009, 06:19 PM) *
The writers? What about the readers?

There is nothing wrong with getting drunk and narrating anything by Squirrelking.
Dr.Rockso
QUOTE (Caadium @ Jun 8 2010, 05:26 PM) *
I think that there was a lot of fun stuff after the invasion; it's just too bad that they ran Stackpole off when they did.

And then there was Dark Age....

"Gee guys! Know what would be swell?! Let's go back to farm mechs fighting with chainsaws! BUZZZZZZ!"

Yup, thats where Battletech lost me as a fan...
Caadium
QUOTE (Dr.Rockso @ Jun 8 2010, 01:40 PM) *
And then there was Dark Age....

"Gee guys! Know what would be swell?! Let's go back to farm mechs fighting with chainsaws! BUZZZZZZ!"

Yup, thats where Battletech lost me as a fan...


I figure if I never looked at any of those books I could continue to pretend that they didn't exist. Don't change that for me.

Like you, I stopped reading and following then. I continued to play the game for a while though.
MindandPen
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Jun 8 2010, 03:37 PM) *
but there was a mention of netcat getting a bit "bloated" in one of the chapter fictions related to the city "nomad", iirc.


Something in Corp Guide about her needing child care and Slamm-O's reaction.

-M&P
hobgoblin
QUOTE (MindandPen @ Jun 9 2010, 12:21 AM) *
Something in Corp Guide about her needing child care and Slamm-O's reaction.

hehe, i am more and more tempted to get a copy.
hermit
QUOTE
I got into role playing through BattleTech, but fell in love with it in Shadowrun. The world's interesting, but the story's got stagnant after the initial clan invasion IMO...

Never clicked with me. I agree, SR and BT need time apart, and SR and ED need a reunion.

QUOTE
"Gee guys! Know what would be swell?! Let's go back to farm mechs fighting with chainsaws! BUZZZZZZ!"

Kind of like this?

Draco18s
QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 8 2010, 06:38 PM) *


There's a castle on that robot's back.
Propaganda
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jun 9 2010, 12:57 AM) *
There's a castle on that robot's back.


It's not a robot, it's a Titan god-engine. In the 40k universe a couple of those things can reduce an entire planet to ash. They're meant to be practically a mile high at that class, and all but unkillable without orbital bombardment (or more Titans)

Edit:

Speaking of semi obscure characters, what happened to...argh, He-Who-Walks-Inside I think it was? Not seen his name turn up in ages. Also, is there anywhere that actually has stuff from Many-Names that's not a short, vague, and cryptic warning? Just wondered.
Grinder
QUOTE (sabs @ Jun 8 2010, 09:59 PM) *
I'm sad that with Earthdawn license being in another company's hand, that the ED/SR links cannot be followed up on officially.


Who said so? wink.gif
Tachi
QUOTE (Propaganda @ Jun 8 2010, 06:12 PM) *
Speaking of semi obscure characters, what happened to...argh, He-Who-Walks-Inside I think it was? Not seen his name turn up in ages. Also, is there anywhere that actually has stuff from Many-Names that's not a short, vague, and cryptic warning? Just wondered.


Do you mean Ghost-Who-Walks-Inside? From the Sam Verner Secrets of Power books?
Samoth
Assuming he is still alive he would be in his late 40s to mid 50s, so probably not still Shadowrunning.
LurkerOutThere
QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 8 2010, 06:38 PM) *
Never clicked with me. I agree, SR and BT need time apart, and SR and ED need a reunion.



I still maintain that everytime ED gets brought up in SR the games creativity and ability to tell sci-fi, espionage, or hell even cyberpunk stories dies a little more. Why people think it's a good idea to chain a living game to a dead game is beyond me.
Dwight
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Nov 2 2009, 04:19 PM) *
The writers? What about the readers?

People read fanfic?
Propaganda
QUOTE (Dwight @ Jun 9 2010, 02:35 PM) *
People read fanfic?


You don't so much read fanfic as subject yourself to it.
Prime Mover
QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ Jun 9 2010, 08:51 AM) *
I still maintain that everytime ED gets brought up in SR the games creativity and ability to tell sci-fi, espionage, or hell even cyberpunk stories dies a little more. Why people think it's a good idea to chain a living game to a dead game is beyond me.


Earthdawn dead? It just got a new edition didn't it?
I've always been curious when the creators made first edition and built in previous age references, was Earthdawn in the back of their heads? Or Was Earthdawn proposed and then tied in backwards compatible? The mystery surrounding mention of previous ages and immortal powers in 1st edition was sorely missing for a long time. It's one of the reasons I've had such high hopes for DotA and its follow up campaign.
Grinder
QUOTE (Prime Mover @ Jun 9 2010, 04:22 PM) *
Earthdawn dead? It just got a new edition didn't it?


Yes - and new material is in the works. smile.gif
Abstruse
QUOTE (Prime Mover @ Jun 9 2010, 08:22 AM) *
Earthdawn dead? It just got a new edition didn't it?
I've always been curious when the creators made first edition and built in previous age references, was Earthdawn in the back of their heads? Or Was Earthdawn proposed and then tied in backwards compatible? The mystery surrounding mention of previous ages and immortal powers in 1st edition was sorely missing for a long time. It's one of the reasons I've had such high hopes for DotA and its follow up campaign.

I may be wrong, but from what I understand, they wanted to make a fantasy game using their D6 system as this was about the time that AD&D 2nd Ed was bloated and out of touch with the market/their customers wanted and needed, focused more on throwing out weird random shit sourcebooks and trying to support about 9 or 10 campaign worlds. While they were developing, someone tossed up the "4th World" comparison and they decided to start linking the two. The cyclular nature of magic, IEs, and the bugs were already in Shadowrun before then. Like I said, I may be wrong on that (trying to remember crap I heard 15 years ago), so please correct me if I'm wrong.
Draco18s
QUOTE (Propaganda @ Jun 9 2010, 08:53 AM) *
You don't so much read fanfic as subject yourself to it.


Hence my initial comment.

QUOTE (Draco18s @ Nov 2 2009, 05:19 PM) *
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Nov 2 2009, 04:37 PM) *

heh, fanfiction in general makes me ponder some very freudian topics about the writers wink.gif

The writers? What about the readers?


hermit
QUOTE
I still maintain that everytime ED gets brought up in SR the games creativity and ability to tell sci-fi, espionage, or hell even cyberpunk stories dies a little more. Why people think it's a good idea to chain a living game to a dead game is beyond me.

Quite on the countrary, it keeps SR from becoming yet another angry dystopian collection of scifi clichés. Wanting Magic out of SR is like saying the Cthulhu games would be awesome 1920s gaming if you could only lose that damned mythos shit.

SR always was about the mystic surrounded by the semi-near future. It never was SciFi to begin with. If you want that, play Cyberpunk 3, or any of a plethora of less successful games like that.

QUOTE
While they were developing, someone tossed up the "4th World" comparison and they decided to start linking the two. The cyclular nature of magic, IEs, and the bugs were already in Shadowrun before then.

That is correct. It also happened the Developers and Shadowrun guys shared office space at some time, and there was lots of exchange of ideas. The basic idea of a hidden magic past, IE, Invae and the threat of the Horrors were all in SR from the very early beginning, though.
Oni Baloney
Since this thread's quasi-purpose is about resurrecting characters: What happened to Nadja Daviar? The the missions module Knight at the Opera has Vogel suggesting something happened to her.
Dr.Rockso
QUOTE (Oni Baloney @ Jun 9 2010, 11:24 AM) *
Since this thread's quasi-purpose is about resurrecting characters: What happened to Nadja Daviar? The the missions module Knight at the Opera has Vogel suggesting something happened to her.

Well her magical brown elf nipples fell off. No one seemed to care what happened to her after that...
LurkerOutThere
QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 9 2010, 09:58 AM) *
Quite on the countrary, it keeps SR from becoming yet another angry dystopian collection of scifi clichés. Wanting Magic out of SR is like saying the Cthulhu games would be awesome 1920s gaming if you could only lose that damned mythos shit.


If you go back you will see I mentioned nothing about wanting magic out of SR, I gave examples of modern and scifi stories but you also can't tell anything about mystical mystery or discovery because the answers are already known, as long as SR is chained to ED the big story is always going to be: the horrors come back everything that can't hide dies or the horrors get beat back.

Honestly the best thing for the game line would be to have the horror's come back in the next couple years a major conflict comes of it and ultimately the horrors are pushed back to their portals and a large WMD is flushed into said portal ending the threat forever, then SR storytelling can move forward.
Abstruse
QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 9 2010, 08:58 AM) *
Quite on the countrary, it keeps SR from becoming yet another angry dystopian collection of scifi clichés. Wanting Magic out of SR is like saying the Cthulhu games would be awesome 1920s gaming if you could only lose that damned mythos shit.

SR always was about the mystic surrounded by the semi-near future. It never was SciFi to begin with. If you want that, play Cyberpunk 3, or any of a plethora of less successful games like that.

I came back to the boards mainly because my roommate was talking to some of his friends and they got into the idea of playing Shadowrun. So I was going to run the game and decided on 4e to lower the learning curve (I know 3rd Ed very well, but never really dug into 4e) since they normally play nWoD stuff and a lot of the concepts would be similar. Turns out, their normal GM wants to run a Cyberpunk 2020 game and asked me "Is there any way you guys could combine them?"

Now, for the record, I'm working on converting Harlequin to 4e...going to run them through Universal Brotherhood and the related stories while that's going on (even going to have my roommate play and Infected from the start who undermines them and eventually turns on them when they get too close, leading them into an ambush). Then I start creeping in with the Enemy, going through Harlequin's Back (yes, I'm serious, I want to run that damn thing), then the elections and aftermath...basically going to go through the entire canon timeline.

My Crowning Moment of Evil GMing though is going to be when the group does an extraction from the Renraku Archology...on December 24, 2061. I'm going to have everything go perfectly for them...all the security guards are distracted or on break or just not paying attention, bystanders will be helpful, it's going to be the smoothest run ever...and I'm going to wait...and wait...and the SECOND any of them even breaths anything remotely similar to "This is too easy", that's when Deus locks the place down. If they can hold it in until they get out, they'll be alright. The gates close just after they leave...but if they say the magic words, they get locked in.

You just flat out can't run that kind of game in Cyberpunk, it's not built for it. It's built...well, frankly, like Shadowrun 4e's world is. Street-level play. That's never interested me. I'm already a cog in the machine working in my cube 40 hours a week as it is...I don't want to spend my free time pretending to be a cog in the machine but eating out of a vending machine and sleeping in a coffin...
Abstruse
QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ Jun 9 2010, 09:42 AM) *
Honestly the best thing for the game line would be to have the horror's come back in the next couple years a major conflict comes of it and ultimately the horrors are pushed back to their portals and a large WMD is flushed into said portal ending the threat forever, then SR storytelling can move forward.

That's kinda what happened in the Dragonheart trilogy.
hermit
QUOTE
Street-level play. That's never interested me. I'm already a cog in the machine working in my cube 40 hours a week as it is...I don't want to spend my free time pretending to be a cog in the machine but eating out of a vending machine and sleeping in a coffin...

This. Well, sorta. But I see no appeal to pretend I am living a life of poverty and petty crime. I have seen enough of that to just not consider it interesting. I like SR because it offers something else, something a little more epic and less made of teen angst and cheap 90s gangsta rap.

QUOTE
Now, for the record, I'm working on converting Harlequin to 4e...going to run them through Universal Brotherhood and the related stories while that's going on (even going to have my roommate play and Infected from the start who undermines them and eventually turns on them when they get too close, leading them into an ambush). Then I start creeping in with the Enemy, going through Harlequin's Back (yes, I'm serious, I want to run that damn thing), then the elections and aftermath...basically going to go through the entire canon timeline.

Will you also delve into the Corp war and the fallout from Dunkelzahn's assassination?
LurkerOutThere
QUOTE (Abstruse @ Jun 9 2010, 10:51 AM) *
You just flat out can't run that kind of game in Cyberpunk, it's not built for it. It's built...well, frankly, like Shadowrun 4e's world is. Street-level play. That's never interested me. I'm already a cog in the machine working in my cube 40 hours a week as it is...I don't want to spend my free time pretending to be a cog in the machine but eating out of a vending machine and sleeping in a coffin...


I actually very much agree with this sentiment especially because of what i've said above. I find the number of ED leftovers who just happen to be immortal, magically powerful, annnnnddd just happen to be rich and secretly own large chunks of megacorps or secret societies basically says there is nothing new under the sun since the fourth world, and the fourth worlders knew all there was to know about the universe.
hermit
No, that's not the case, especially with knowing all there is about the world (and nevermind Earthdawn always was focused on European Russia, the Caucasian and Europe, with most of the world hardly ever touched upon. Lots of possibility formysterious mystery there and adding your own stuff, actually, if you're so inclined.

Again: if you want sci-fi and aliens, play another game. SR is about the 6th world's dawn and the 4th world's legacy, and has always been.
Grinder
QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 9 2010, 06:25 PM) *
No, that's not the case, especially with knowing all there is about the world (and nevermind Earthdawn always was focused on European Russia, the Caucasian and Europe, with most of the world hardly ever touched upon. But why trouble yourself with facts when you can just whine.


Careful, dude. extinguish.gif
hermit
Sorry. Edited.
otakusensei
QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 9 2010, 12:25 PM) *
Again: if you want sci-fi and aliens, play another game. SR is about the 6th world's dawn and the 4th world's legacy, and has always been.

This exactly. You can play SR without ever knowing what an immortal elf is. You can do a run for a dragon and never see the scales. The connection to Earthdawn is part of the root of the game, and if you remove it you remove something of what makes Shadowrun what it is.
Grinder
QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 9 2010, 06:27 PM) *
Sorry. Edited.


Ninja-edit! ninja.gif grinbig.gif
LurkerOutThere
QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 9 2010, 11:25 AM) *
No, that's not the case, especially with knowing all there is about the world (and nevermind Earthdawn always was focused on European Russia, the Caucasian and Europe, with most of the world hardly ever touched upon. Lots of possibility formysterious mystery there and adding your own stuff, actually, if you're so inclined.

Again: if you want sci-fi and aliens, play another game. SR is about the 6th world's dawn and the 4th world's legacy, and has always been.



Because the horrors would have totally never gone into asia the big extermination of all life plotline would have totally never reached those shores. I do not see why I am required to play another game to get elements that are represented as part of the game setting.
hermit
I announced! But I confess I did WANT to ninja it.
Grinder
QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 9 2010, 07:36 PM) *
I announced! But I confess I did WANT to ninja it.

grinbig.gif

Abstruse
QUOTE (otakusensei @ Jun 9 2010, 11:12 AM) *
This exactly. You can play SR without ever knowing what an immortal elf is. You can do a run for a dragon and never see the scales. The connection to Earthdawn is part of the root of the game, and if you remove it you remove something of what makes Shadowrun what it is.

That's pretty much it for me. Like I've said before, I read Shadowrun books more for fiction than I do for rules since I can rarely get a game together. But for me, it's about the ending to the original Harlequin adventure...
[ Spoiler ]

...like, just for that brief moment, I was a part (even if a small one) of something really important in the world. Then I go back to my drudgery.

That, to me, is what the Shadowrun world is about.
LurkerOutThere
QUOTE
...like, just for that brief moment, I was a part (even if a small one) of something really important in the world. Then I go back to my drudgery.

That, to me, is what the Shadowrun world is about.


Let us just say that my take on things and whether Harlequin was an enjoyable module is entirely different.
Prime Mover
The original Harlequin set the tone of my games for many years after and was probably one the most memorable and influential early adventures (Along with Bottled Demon and Dragon Hunt) for me personally.
sabs
I played Earthdawn for years. I loved the setting, it was by far the most comfortable setting for me to GM in a long time.

I had played SR 1 before earthdawn, and I came back to SR in 4th Edition. To me the Earthdawn link is part of what makes Shadowrun so much fun. It really expands the world. And, I love horrors, and I love the idea that they're going to come back. Horrors vs Cyber and Magic. It's going to be Epic.

Abstruse
QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ Jun 9 2010, 11:52 AM) *
Let us just say that my take on things and whether Harlequin was an enjoyable module is entirely different.

The individual chapters left something to be desired, but I loved the concept and execution of the overall story. For some reason, though, I didn't like the way it was done in Survival of the Fittest...maybe because it was trying to recapture that feel and felt like a pale imitation by comparison...
otakusensei
QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ Jun 9 2010, 01:52 PM) *
Let us just say that my take on things and whether Harlequin was an enjoyable module is entirely different.

You can't deny that Shadowrun would be a much different game without the connection to Earthdawn though. I'm finding it hard to swallow that the path forward in a creative sense involves cutting off a leg. And a very interesting one at that.
Ancient History
It's important o remember that Shadowrun came first. The intimations of immortal elves and a past age of magic were intrinsic to the setting a long time before Earthdawn made it on the scene.
Abstruse
QUOTE (Ancient History @ Jun 9 2010, 12:27 PM) *
It's important o remember that Shadowrun came first. The intimations of immortal elves and a past age of magic were intrinsic to the setting a long time before Earthdawn made it on the scene.

I should probably look it up before posting, but didn't Earthdawn come out after even the 2nd Ed. of Shadowrun?
Oni Baloney
QUOTE (Abstruse @ Jun 9 2010, 01:28 PM) *
I should probably look it up before posting, but didn't Earthdawn come out after even the 2nd Ed. of Shadowrun?


Yep. 2nd edition was 92, Earthdawn was 93.
Caadium
QUOTE (Dr.Rockso @ Jun 9 2010, 07:41 AM) *
Well her magical brown elf nipples fell off. No one seemed to care what happened to her after that...


Whatchoo talking bout Willis?

Lucy, You got sum splainin to do.

Seriously though, WHAT happened with her?
graywulfe
QUOTE (Abstruse @ Jun 9 2010, 12:37 PM) *
That's pretty much it for me. Like I've said before, I read Shadowrun books more for fiction than I do for rules since I can rarely get a game together. But for me, it's about the ending to the original Harlequin adventure...
[ Spoiler ]

...like, just for that brief moment, I was a part (even if a small one) of something really important in the world. Then I go back to my drudgery.

That, to me, is what the Shadowrun world is about.


THIS!!! times a 1000 man.

You have put everything I love about the IE's and GD's in this game in the best words I've seen.

Graywulfe
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