I prefer to think of them as being innately "like" the dragons. So in the manner in which you would like them to be, I see it as a passive thing that's inherent to their DNA somehow, and like dragons they too can die from wounds. Old age maybe, but along the lines of "millenia" and not "decades." Long enough that the rest of us go, "ok, immortal, got it" and move on.

Of course.



If I had a GM that pulled what that module pulls I and she would indeed be having a talk.

I actually like that concept, a sinister cabal which does not conspire just for the sake of having a world conspiracy.

However...

...did anybody EVER like the idea that everybody who ever did something great either had pointy ears himself or was guided by an IE?

Not I. Generally speaking I don't mind the IEs being out there and doing things, and even observing or contributing to some important past events, but when it turned into "everybody who ever did something great either had pointy ears himself or was guided by an IE" was when even I (as a 'fan' of the IE concept) started ignoring them to large extent. As others have said, it was not a bad concept, it just got carried too far.

They magically got themselves immunity (age), and that's it. They're actually a little less immortal than vampires. Just, they have 5-digit Karma counts. And we know how nuts a high Karma mage can be.


Just, they weren't.

And if Dota is any indication they are aging(either naturally, or not) rather visibly now.

a problem most games with powerful characters in their metaplot had, or still have.

all to easy to go "novel" on the metaplot and forget one is actually writing for a game where the player characters will be the center of attention.

Some of the most fun SR games I've been involved with are games where the PCs might be the center of attention relating to what they are doing; but where they come to realize and remember that in the world of Extraterritorial Megacorps and Dragons all Shadowrunners, even the PCs, are just expendable assets. Not only are they assets, but they are akin to a single thread in a tapesty that they themselves don't often see.

I don't remember the name of the novel, but the novel themed around Jack the Ripper had an ending that I thought fit this mentality. Eventually, runners realize that even though they might have made some money, in the grand scheme of things they've been used and abused.

Wasn't that one of the "newer" novels that was only published due to a lack of recent material? My GM thinks its awful because it is Jack the Ripper, but with ShadowRun tattooed on.

Well, it could be, but then again, DNA has some intrisec "Magic" into it that can develop around high levels of mana. If this was the case, they should be dead of old age when the mana level droped. I could buy them going to sleep just like the Dragons did.



That's my whole problem with them. They are "better" than the Dragons in this way because they were watching all the events, while the dragons had to spend time (and money?) to get used to the current time.

Streets of Blood. One of the best SR novels ever.

That's kinda what I meant. If there are examples of an IE being awake during the downtime I call BS.

Unless its Elrohn* the Scribe. I could totally see that guy staying up so late making notes that it gets to be morning^ and he didn't notice.

*Or however his damn name is spelled

^5000 years later.

-- Passions are similar to Mentor Spirits but more powerful, as a single Passion controls the purvue of multiple mentors. Passions can also grant what I guess would map to adept powers to their followers.

-- Yup, they fit in easily with the Shadowrun 4e design space either as mentor spirits/paragons being aspects of them, or as meta-mentors (with a higher BP cost and more "goodies" attached).
-- That of course doesn't explain why they are so hush-hush in Shadowrun ... OMG NINJA ELF ASSASSINS AT THE DOOR BRB

-- I don't see it happening. Noone became a Passion in Earthdawn that I'm aware of, and there were a LOT of magical beasties and people back then (hell, almost everyone was an Adept at least, in Shadowrun terms).
-- Ascending to become a more generalized guardian spirit sure. It's arguable that the mentor spirits are really external things at all though.

I thought they were the Dragonkin (literally, children of Dragons and elves) from Earthdawn.

-M&P

Possible. I'm not up on my Earthdawn mythology.

Yeah that's right, they were originally the creations of the dragons. They were supposed to be slaves, but eventually they fought back and became free, which is why the dragons then created Drakes to fill the slave roles.

So which dragon did Ehran knock up then?

EDIT:Spelling

whoever it was, the lizard was a cold one...

None, if you're referring to Frosty, Immortal elves can have immortal offspring (though sometimes they dont).

Then what other cold hearted lizard is Frosty's mother? And further, why would she left Ehran wager their daughter in friggin' duel?!(at least I think thats how it went down)

I'll ask the more wise on Shadowrun-lore (Ancient History, I choose you) But I remember someone saying Leonardo da Vinci was an Immortal Elf (or was being helped by one) among other similar stuff. If it wouldn't be such a big comotion, I could totally see someone saying that Jesus was also an IE.

there was a elf known as leonardo that had some off the scale cyberdeck he loved to play with. He claimed to be leonardo da vinci, but i am unsure if any of the big name IE's ever backed up his claim. Either he became lunch for lofwyr, or is locked away in some R&D lab somewhere.

If I recall correctly Leo had a hand in the creation of either Morgan or Deus

The stuff I just read from AH's site suggests that Lofwyr stole Leonardo away from Renraku and he's now working at an Antarctic research station for SK, helping them reach beyond the SOTA. Comments in shadowtalk from various IEs suggests this 6thWorld Leonardo may be the elf they refer to as Brightlight. Earthdawn contained an elf named Leonarus, who was also obsessed with light (just like Leonardo).

He sold some of his Knowledge of computer science to Raku, who then went on and created Morgan with it, harvested her for Deus' code and on the side created Megaira. The Elf is known as Lightbringer or Bright Light and is one of two who mattered historically (the other being Alachia, who was Queen Elisabeth). The other I spent the time becoming quietly rich or get on each others' nerves (or, in Harles' and Aina's case, lesading an abusive relationship and taking turns in being junkies).

Some had a hand, but less directly. Most just slacked it or got by silently.

Don't IEs have immunity to toxins/pathogens? Or is that just vampires?

In a novel, Lofwyr seems to imply that Leonardo is not Leonardo Da Vinci but may have known him, and has been implying that he posed as him to others, which Lofwyr, predictably, finds insipid, and suggests that Leonardo is insane for doing so.

Leonardo appeared to believe at the the time that the Horrors were coming faster than others thought. He believed Harlequin would fail, and that this time the Horrors would be able to penetrate kairns and dragon lairs. He was organizing some kind of super-kairn, and an organization of elves and humans to run it. He referred to this as his Great Work, and it involved him selling some of the secrets to AI, magic, and some other assorted trinkets for money, and double-crossing the buyers (He is supposed to have hacked all the AAAs simultaneously. although he seems not to have anticipated the rise of Deus).

He's also portrayed as ridiculously magically powerful, he seriously considers himself capable of taking on the entire Council of Princes or the Court from the two Tirs, and Lofwyr acknowledges he might have been capable of doing so or even posing a threat to the dragon himself, but of course it's Lofwyr, so he's already shut him down with a draconic toxin of some kind.

The whole episode is fascinating, even if it come in a book I think is rather sub-par overall. If it's still canon, Leonardo is either in SK's clutches or has been sold back to one of the corporations he hacked and betrayed. I consider it strong evidence Leonardo is Brightlight, which would mean that he's an IE, and one of the few beings Harlequin considers more powerful and in-the-know than himself.

i do wonder if AH will be tinkering with those pages now that he is no longer associated with CGL.

That's just Vampires. IE are imune to age. nothing else. Aina is very able to knock herself out on a variety of drugs.

Wow. Seems I missed a lot of canon near the end of FASAs run. Stupid high school, taking my time away from Shadowrun...

I was drinking, not drunk, at least, not at that point.

Both, kinda. Leonardo joined Renraku about the time Morgan was "born" and I believe he may have been working on the advanced semi-autonomous knowbot to run the Archology that eventually became Deus after they started stripping Morgan for code. He claims to be THE Leonardo, but everyone pokes fun at him for it. He was left da Vinci's portfolios by Dunkelzahn in his will, a tweaking of his nose from beyond the grave most likely.

Also, AH did almost all that work long before he was associated professionally with CGL. The reason they haven't been updated recently is that he's been working for them professionally. Either the whole situation's going to leave a sour taste and he's going to lay off Shadowrun for a while, or we'll start producing more fan material.

hmm, the da vinci portfolios. Do that include the supposed lost one?

From what I recall, it was specifically the lost one. Or the complete portfolios, I can't remember.

just checked, seems it was the lost ones.

According to Ehran—in the 1990 printing of "Humans and the Cycle of Magic" by Tom Dowd and/or Jordan Weisman—Leonardo da Vinci never quite grasped some of the implications of his work with respect to the existence or cycles of magic. So not an immortal elf.

According to Harlequin’s Back, Immortal Elves are Immune to Age, Disease, Pathogens, & Poisons.

Sorry for going back on topic, but:


(sorry, but somehow I can use only Quickreply option. No idea why.)

I know about Bloodyguts - he was flatlined by Deus, as warninig for Mirage. But didn't Dark Father showed up in short fiction in Runner's Companion, making deal with Hannibelle?

BTW - Hitomi Shiawase (a.k.a. Lady Death), another otaku from Psychotrope. She's the empress of Japanese Empire State now, am I right?

No, that was his son. Funny story, that was the opening to a planned piece of short fiction called "Ghoul Chow" that I never finished.


Yep.

Thanks! I needed this info for my fanfic.