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Nexushound
Oi Chummers,

Just got my Hard Copy of Seattle 2072 and I am Impressed. I love the art and fiction and am really glad it came in a hard cover. Definitly my favorite product for the 4th Ed. Line. Good job Catalyst. I will add that I have Seattle, New Seattle and Runner Havens and have been running games in the Emerald city for years now so I am pretty familiar with the plex and it's denziens and think they did reallya good job keeping in line with all the stuff that's happened in the plex over the years and not forgetting about some of my favorite locales and characters.


Any comments on what you dig and what you don't. Let me know what you think about it.
Prime Mover
Glad Seattle got this treatment. Seattle has been the home base for my players since first edition. Updates and great art make this a must buy for me.
Ascalaphus
I'm looking forward to it. The timing couldn't have been better.
Nightfalke
So, in your opinion, it's worth the money?

Because, honestly, that was the hold up for me getting it. I mean, full color is pretty and all, but I found the other books (Arsenal, Unwired etc) were just fine in B&W.

Prime Mover
It's more like the original Seattle book, brought up to date with some great layout/art.
Moirdryd
As a piece of sourcework would it be worth getting for those of us using SR3? I have both Seattle and New Seattle but wondering if the new book would be good to add to the setting info.
Kagetenshi
SR4 is substantially not the same world that SR1-3 were; I would be very surprised if it's worth getting to try to add to an SR3 campaign.

~J
Warlordtheft
Depends if you plan on running Seattle in 2072. If so, my guess is yes---Brackhaven as governer, KE is the law. Plus an updated list of interesting locations.
Kagetenshi
Mm, that's a good point. Yes, if you're using SR3 rules to run the timeline and world-type (Wireless Matrix with decking rules, for example) it could be worthwhile; I was assuming that the world would be a direct offshoot of the SR3 world if you were using those rules.

~J
BookWyrm
I am SO picking up this book when I get a chance.
Moirdryd
We're still firmly in the 2060's at the moment (infact just started a new campaign in 2062). But I like to get as many basic cross references as I can for regular setting features as it helps me refine my instinct for what should be around in, say Renton, when the Runner's head that way without me having to flip back and forth and look at all the neighborhoods, security ratings, notable facts, predominant style of the region and so on.
LurkerOutThere
Moirdryd within that context I think you will still be more then satisfied with Seattle 2072 especially if you don't own any of the other seattle setting books.
Megu
QUOTE (Nightfalke @ Nov 13 2009, 10:02 AM) *
So, in your opinion, it's worth the money?

Because, honestly, that was the hold up for me getting it. I mean, full color is pretty and all, but I found the other books (Arsenal, Unwired etc) were just fine in B&W.



This. I'm way more interested in bendable softcovers that I can haul around and that cost less, than I am in a pretty-pretty book. But my players aren't in Seattle anyways, so I'm not too worked up one way or another. That said, there is a sizeable crowd of people still using Seattle rather than any of the new sprawls detailed in 4e, so I think if I was one of those people I'd indeed be pretty excited.
Nexushound
Oi Chums,

IMO this book would be good for any campaign that is set in Seattle. Regardless of the year it still has a lot of the old locales and all of our favorite players, Yaks, Mafia, Triads and Gangs. The reference pages in the back of the book are an awesome tool for building a Google Earth data base which we use, displayed on a big screen, extensively in our games. I am a fan of good, hard bound, game books. That includes a lot of criteria. Art, fiction, organization and usable game content and I think this one is a real winner. Good for any campaign regardless of your time frame. Definitly worth the money. Again good job Catalyst.

It is nice to hear others opinions about the book as well. Thanks all. Keep me posted on how Seattle 2072 has helped and how it has let you down in gaming sessions to come!!
Nightfalke
Well. I just broke down and bought Seattle 2072. Absolutely beautiful book, and a lot of great info, well laid out.

It's still hard for me to justify the $45 I spent on it at my LGS, but I bought it, so I'll have to deal with it. biggrin.gif I expect to spend $45-50 on a 300 page core book, not a 200 page splat book...

So yeah...If you've got the spare cash, and you want to know more about Seattle. Buy it.
Weaver95
I have to admit, I like this book. My *only* regret is that there isn't any sort of removable/fold out map of the city and/or it's surrounding areas. But that is a minor quibble in an otherwise very well produced product.
TeOdio
I'm might be in the minority here, but I haven't done Seattle since my first campaign in 1992. Did Detroit for two editions before starting Hong Kong in 4th. I love Hong Kong as a setting and my players have really got into it. I might get Seattle 2072 if it's as awesome as you say just for running Ghost Cartels. I would love to see the same treatment for Hong Kong.


Megu
QUOTE (TeOdio @ Nov 15 2009, 09:36 PM) *
I'm might be in the minority here, but I haven't done Seattle since my first campaign in 1992. Did Detroit for two editions before starting Hong Kong in 4th. I love Hong Kong as a setting and my players have really got into it. I might get Seattle 2072 if it's as awesome as you say just for running Ghost Cartels. I would love to see the same treatment for Hong Kong.


Detroit, eh? I'd think that'd be quite odd. One of the few places in Shadowrun that might actually be in better shape than in real life.
Moirdryd
Dont forget that Detroit has a Corp owned one man cyber zombie police force. Codenamed RoboCop!!. (Sorry, been watching the movies last night)
Fuchs
I received the book today. Looks good - though I still haven't gotten my SR 4A book.
Wesley Street
Mine should be arriving today. I look forward to replacing my Seattle Sourcebook as that poor thing is in tatters. I will miss the photo adverts though... frown.gif
BlueMax
I was going to wait on buying this book. Both of the Shadowrun Campaigns I was involved in have been retired.

Then the guy at the gamestore told me to "just look threw it". WoW! The art is amazing. There are two things in the art that sold me the book.

1. Seahawks hat. It may be the future but people will still be fanatics.
2. The fine red eyed lady used as an example in the ordering system.

BlueMax
Malachi
QUOTE (Wesley Street @ Nov 17 2009, 11:50 AM) *
Mine should be arriving today. I look forward to replacing my Seattle Sourcebook as that poor thing is in tatters. I will miss the photo adverts though... frown.gif

No, I will not miss the chick holding the water pistol with the "WTH is that" hat....
BlueMax
QUOTE (Malachi @ Nov 17 2009, 11:08 AM) *
No, I will not miss the chick holding the water pistol with the "WTH is that" hat....


(with a tone that conveys humor)
Why must you hate the 80's?



BlueMax
Malachi
QUOTE (BlueMax @ Nov 17 2009, 01:13 PM) *
(with a tone that conveys humor)
Why must you hate the 80's?

biggrin.gif
The decade existed to produce music that is great to listen to, but not to look at the people as they played it.
erik
my book was supposed to ship yesterday from Amazon, now delayed until December 14th! Must be popular! smile.gif
Prime Mover
Two more weeks before I can order mine, gonna have to keep glaring at friends copy he got from Dragon Con.
flext
Just got mine today. Looks nice and has lots of sweet setting information. My favorite part is ads are back in! I love the flavor they give to the whole thing.
Joe Chummer
This may surprise some people, but I would have preferred the book was printed with B/W paper instead. As much as I love color books, I appreciate the feel of normal paper, especially in a hardback. The semi-glossy paper that Catalyst's color hardbacks are printed on is not only difficult to read at the right angle due to glare, but it retains all fingerprints. Black or dark pages are the worst, as you can just see all of the fingerprints left behind. Ick.

But other than that, I think Seattle 2072 is a great book. Kudos to Catalyst for treating my favorite SR city with love.
Wesley Street
Okay, my copy showed up today. Let's see... initial reactions after reading the first chapter and a flip-through...

- Damn, this is one pretty package. I love the cover and interior flap art and overall it looks very slick.
- It follows the flow and feel of Seattle Sourcebook but updates all the info for 2072. And has the interspersed fiction bits per the Catalyst style. Nice.
- Maps are nice. Would have loved a fold-out update of the Downtown core but, whatever, the new illustrations are really really good.
- I want take an axe to the excess of run-on sentences in the first chapter copy. What's the deal with all the unnecessary "quote marks," bizarre conjunctions and disjuncts? Did the Chicago Manual of Style fall out of favor in 2072? I bet when I read the next chapter it will read like a different writer penned it...
- ...and I'm right. Grr.
- The little faux ads are a nice touch and bring the appropriate amount of cheesiness; the same that the original Sourcebook brought. Despite being in color, most of them are no better or worse than the old pen-and-ink ones. Some are bland or amateurish but most are pretty good. I dig the Ingersoll-Berkley ad... nice bit of design, that.
- I appreciate the location index a la New Seattle.
Joe Chummer
QUOTE (Wesley Street @ Nov 17 2009, 11:08 PM) *
- I want take an axe to the excess of run-on sentences in the first chapter copy. What's the deal with all the unnecessary "quote marks," bizarre conjunctions and disjuncts? Did the Chicago Manual of Style fall out of favor in 2072?

For prose work, Strunk & White's Elements of Style is a bit more appropriate. The AP Style Guide is used in media/newspapers, and the CMS is good for just about everything else, like vocational journals, non-fiction, research papers, etc.

Also, considering the level of literacy in SR's point-and-click, read-it-out-loud-to-me, speech-recognition culture, it's AMAZING if we get any written documents in a 2072-era context that qualify as actual, readable English. If anyone really needs to know proper written-English grammar and mechanics, they'll just slot a chip.

QUOTE
I bet when I read the next chapter it will read like a different writer penned it...
- ...and I'm right. Grr.

Not sure why this is. Steve Kenson wrote the guts of the book. The other writers wrote the fiction. The only reason for whatever schizophrenic vibe you're getting is either editorial intrusion or how Steve had to compromise between meshing the original source material (the "Based on some previous material by..." bit) and his own stuff. But, then again, Steve wrote New Seattle too, so...
Joe Chummer
Another thing I forgot to mention: Why no JackPoint AR login page? I don't understand why we have FastJack intro-ing the book and yet the JackPoint login was forgotten.

Didn't work out in the layout, I guess?
Nexushound
Oi Chums,

Loved the comment about the Seattle Sea Hawks hat and I loved the Red Eyed Girl too. I would be realy happy if Hong Kong got a full write up as detailed as Seattle because if I were to run any place else I think it would be there. The old school advertisements that are in the original Seattle sourcebook are cool. If you want a real blast from the past check out the adverts in the London Sourcebook.
General Ripper
I've found it to be the most detailed sourcebook this edition, and have been able to make great use of it.

Of course, I'm looking forward to the Corp Guide myself, but that could be because I'm a shameless sellout.
Thanee
It's ordered already and hopefully I will get it eventually (maybe before the SR4A LE even wink.gif).

Bye
Thanee
Starglyte
I liked the shorts stories they had scattered around the book. My favorite is the one where two Dwarven Street Samurai infiltrate the Ork Underground to get some bottles of liquor. It seems no matter the setting, the Dwarves need their beer.

I am looking forward to the new fiction just because of these stories in the corebook and Seattle 2072.
LivingOxymoron
I'm absolutely loving the short fiction pieces that Catalyst is putting into their books, and I hope it continues. It really fleshes out the world and you can tell the writers have a passion AND understanding for the source material.

There are two little nits I have to pick, both on military stuff.

First, the JTF-S commander is a Brigadier General. The local Navy commander is a Vice Admiral. However, it says that the JTF-S commander outranks the Navy Commander. The reality is that they would not be in the same chain of command, and you'd better believe that a 3-star Admiral isn't going to let a 1-star General push him around, no matter what the folks in FDC say.

Second, the Carrier in Seattle is called the USS Colin Powell. I don't see how a carrier would be named after an Army General, especially one whose distinguishing career highlight didn't occur in the Shadowrun timeline. Carriers are generally named after Admirals, Presidents, or others in government with outstanding relationship to the Navy.

Other than that... damn good book.
etherial
QUOTE (LivingOxymoron @ Dec 1 2009, 01:02 AM) *
Second, the Carrier in Seattle is called the USS Colin Powell. I don't see how a carrier would be named after an Army General, especially one whose distinguishing career highlight didn't occur in the Shadowrun timeline. Carriers are generally named after Admirals, Presidents, or others in government with outstanding relationship to the Navy.


He was Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in SR timeline and, who knows, maybe he ran for President in SR. It was often bandied about in the 90s that he was a strong candidate, he just didn't want it in our timeline.
Wesley Street
QUOTE (LivingOxymoron @ Dec 1 2009, 01:02 AM) *
Second, the Carrier in Seattle is called the USS Colin Powell.


That actually brings up another question. Since the USA is no longer a political entity and everyone in the east is Americanadian now, shouldn't it be the UCSS Colin Powell? What would USS in a post-US world stand for?

Edit: Now that I think about it a little more, if Ontario, etc. are considered to be political state-entities equivalent to, say, Indiana and Illinois, the "USS" would still work...

QUOTE (Joe Chummer @ Nov 17 2009, 11:44 PM) *
Not sure why this is. Steve Kenson wrote the guts of the book. The other writers wrote the fiction. The only reason for whatever schizophrenic vibe you're getting is either editorial intrusion or how Steve had to compromise between meshing the original source material (the "Based on some previous material by..." bit) and his own stuff. But, then again, Steve wrote New Seattle too, so...


After a couple more reads it doesn't feel quite so schizo as it initially did. I think you're right, though, it may have been meshing his own stuff with the "based on previous material by..." that gave me that initial jolt.
General Ripper
QUOTE (LivingOxymoron @ Dec 1 2009, 01:02 AM) *
First, the JTF-S commander is a Brigadier General. The local Navy commander is a Vice Admiral. However, it says that the JTF-S commander outranks the Navy Commander. The reality is that they would not be in the same chain of command, and you'd better believe that a 3-star Admiral isn't going to let a 1-star General push him around, no matter what the folks in FDC say.


Not necessarily true, depending on how its read. For the benefit of those who don't know (I'm gonna take a guess that LivingOxymoron does), Brigadier general is an acceptable rank for a modern day US Army task force commander for a unit larger than brigade and smaller than division (keep in mind that a task force is, by definition, ad hoc, generally a Division Assistant Division commander is given the role to incorporate several division-level assets into one cohesive unit, so if anything, the fact that it's still a Task Force is unusual), and, at least by my reading, it isn't that the Vice Admiral answers to the BG; it's that the BG is the primary military asset and has Fleet assets permanently seconded to him-- more of a practical outranking than on paper.

Yes, it reads that Darcy "outranks the admiral, albeit barely in the UCAS Chain of Command" but I think that has more to do with influence and less to do with formality. In short, the UCAS Joint Chiefs value the strategic worth of the ground forces more than the naval forces, and see the carrier group as mostly focused on a mission external to Seattle-- seconded to Seattle troops on the ground when it does occur. The Admiral may disagree with the General's methods, but how much interaction does he really have with the people of Seattle? His Marines aren't the ones training and supervising the Metroplex guard, and he only has one part of one district-- Darcy's got all of Fort Lewis under his territorial command.

But, this is just my reading of it.

Also in regards to the permanency of JTF-S (the transition that's mentioned in Seattle 2072, that is), that's my real issue, I suppose. It seems strange to me that rather than break it up into separate commands (since I doubt the Navy has the same interests as the Army), they've kept them unified under this admittedly odd chain of command. Perhaps it still retains the JTF title to encompass those different branches under the same logistics/command/budgetary umbrella? That, though, as LivingOxymoron pointed out, seems highly unlikely, at least in today's military.

The final disclaimer I'll add is that yes, I know SR is not a military based game, but some bases of knowledge instilled by certain institutions and educations cannot be conciously dispelled. I don't dwell on these things, but I agree with LivingOxymoron-- these are nits I must pick. smile.gif
The Jake
I love this book. Easily the best location book put together in the 20 years I have been reading/running/playing Shadowrun.

I love how it uses the old Seattle Sourcebook format, uses the old style ads, then has new style short fiction pieces between sections and has maps. The sections towards the back covering the politics, corps, organised crime, gangs, etc, really does help flesh out the feel of the city. I also LOVE the quick reference table at the back, further refining the one used in New Seattle. In fact, I will go so far as to say this is the best location book I've seen in any RPG.

Please stick with this format.

- J.
Thanee
Very nice book, indeed. Got mine a few days ago. smile.gif

But what's up with having no security ratings (AAA, AA, A, B, C, ..., Z), anymore for the various districts? Or are those just very well hidden? wink.gif

Bye
Thanee
Nexushound
Oi Chums,

Sadly there are no Security ratings as in the older versions of this book. But if you still have those handy then they apply just as easily. The areas described under the LS rating have not changed too much, Redmond is still a dump and Bellvue still happening.
Thanee
Sad. I really liked those, as they gave you a lot of information at a glance. smile.gif

And yeah, I do have all the older books, so that is no problem, really. I just don't really understand why they were removed at some point (they weren't in the New Seattle book either, IIRC).

But otherwise the book looks really great. smile.gif

Bye
Thanee
Blackb1rd
Agreed, Catalyst has done an excellent job with this particular sourcebook. Very user friendly.
Joe Chummer
QUOTE (Thanee @ Dec 7 2009, 02:46 AM) *
Very nice book, indeed. Got mine a few days ago. smile.gif

But what's up with having no security ratings (AAA, AA, A, B, C, ..., Z), anymore for the various districts? Or are those just very well hidden? wink.gif

Bye
Thanee


Maybe Knight Errant has its own method of security classifications, and since they're new to policing the 'Plex, they're either not releasing the information or it just isn't as transparent yet...?
Wesley Street
I think the developers have set aside the area security ratings system (along with things like LTG numbers) but future publications may prove me wrong.
Kalvan
I really like how everything has its own address, so that if you want to simulate high-tailing it out of there with Knight-Errant hot on your trail, all you need to do is pin up the nescessary adresses on Google Maps and print it/them out.

I just can't wait for writeups of other cities using this format.
Nexushound
Oi Chums,

I have spent some time mapping out the locations from Seattle 2072 onto Google Earth then use it real time during games to show players where they are in the city. It has been a load of fun and a good gaming tool for my group.
Buio
I'm doing a bit of necromancy here, but dunno if I wanted to start a new thread with my only comment on it. Anyway, I bought Seattle 2072 recently, and have started to read it (the paper version).

I wanted to give my kudos for it, it's great. Both very informational, well written and also entertaining. They layout is good to, with an introduction to the city, then Seattle at a glance (nice start for my players to get to know the areas), followed by history and detailed information on areas and groups. I also like the set stories I've read so far.

Well worth my money.

I got two minor criticisms, I've found at least 3 mentions of Tamanous but there is no fact about this syndicate. For sure they are not Seattle only, but they do seem to be a factor there, so I missed info on them. I found some on the wiki here http://wiki.dumpshock.com/index.php/Tamanous

The other minor is related, there is no index, which meant I couldn't find more about Tamanous easily. Didn't exist in the table of contents at least.

Why I found Tamanous interesting is because I think I'm going to have the group in my upcoming Shadowrun game getting involved with ghouls in some way. This is our first every contact with Shadowrun (we circle games and gm's so we play a lot of different ones). I wanna touch several subjects so they get the feel of the world, and organlegging + ghouls would give both a pinch of despicable evil and a pinch of the supernatural (monsters).
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