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kjones
The average, un-augmented human can move 10 meters per round if walking, or 25 meters per round (minimum) when running. That's about 12 kph (7.5 mph) or 30 kph (18.5 mph) respectively.

In both cases, this is really fast. I realize that walking speed isn't a causal stroll, but for me (I went and timed this) moving at that speed is more of a medium jog. And 30 kph is faster than I am physically capable of moving - perhaps this reflects more on my physical abilities than on the rules, and I'm no sprinter, but again, that's the baseline number.

So, are 'runners faster than normal people, do people walk faster in the future, or are the rules just wonky?
DireRadiant
Did you notice they all move at the same speeds? Or in 6 increments of speed... And did you see what happens when you add athletics skill checks in? And what happens when you start getting magic effects and cyberware added?

All I care about is if X is faster then Y, and that neither can outrun bullets.

For real World modeling of people running... I would use the real world, but that's not where I play Shadowrun.

Why does a world filled with magic and incredible technology and Dragons need to have to have running speeds modeled on your personal time measurements?
Karoline
QUOTE (kjones @ Feb 22 2010, 03:33 PM) *
So, are 'runners faster than normal people, do people walk faster in the future, or are the rules just wonky?


I would guess it is a combination of the two. Given all the augmentations available, and the fact that health in general increases with time due to medical advances, I could see the average person in 2072 walking slightly (though perhaps not generally noticeably faster) than a person of today. It could also be an asumption of people are walking in very purposeful manner. Taking long, quick strides can make you move faster than you might think.

I think there is also a small wonkyness of the rules. I'm guessing they decided to round up from 8.X m/s in order to make it easy to remember that humans (the baseline) move at a nice round 10m/turn walking and 25m/turn running.
Muspellsheimr
The movement speeds in Shadowrun are fucked up. It's a low priority, however, compared to a number of other issues with the game.


Average human walking speed is 4.5-4.75 km/h, while the fastest running rate (100m dash by Bolt) recorded is 37.58 km/h (rounded to 2 decimals).

Keep in mind that with the rules for sprinting, even unaugmented individuals can easily equal or exceed Bolts record.



If it is a significant issue for you, the simplest "effective" solution would be to cut movement rates by half (including sprinting).
D2F
QUOTE (Karoline @ Feb 22 2010, 09:40 PM) *
I'm guessing they decided to round up from 8.X m/s in order to make it easy to remember that humans (the baseline) move at a nice round 10m/turn walking and 25m/turn running.


That is most probably exactly why they did it.
Warlordtheft
I'd call it combat movement and leave it at that. If some one tried to run or walk at those speeds for an hour, I'd go by a different rate.
Muspellsheimr
QUOTE (D2F @ Feb 22 2010, 02:30 PM) *
That is most probably exactly why they did it.

Except a base walking rate of 5m per turn is still higher than normal human walking rate, while at least being believable. So I doubt it.
Karoline
QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Feb 22 2010, 04:33 PM) *
Except a base walking rate of 5m per turn is still higher than normal human walking rate, while at least being believable. So I doubt it.


6KPH vs your number of 4.75KPH?

I don't have any problems envisioning 'walking' rating during combat as being at least a light job, which easily accounts for the fairly small difference.

So yeah, if you want more realism, go ahead and halve all movement speeds. Do keep in mind that this will make melee combatants much weaker because it will take them twice as long to close in on enemies.
D2F
QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Feb 22 2010, 10:33 PM) *
Except a base walking rate of 5m per turn is still higher than normal human walking rate, while at least being believable. So I doubt it.


5m/ct is pretty much exactly regular walking speed. (that's 6kph, which means 10m walking time per 1,000m, which is roughly the same time I need to get to my university, which happens to be roughly 1km away from my house).

Using 5m/ct as a base has some other problem, though: you cannot easily adjust for other metavariants, without leaving the 5 step increment area.

Of they could either not give a damn about it in the first place (also, likely), or they were too stupid to calculate the proper m/ct walking speed for a 3s combat turn (highly unlikely). In the end, though: does it matter?
kjones
I don't really care, one way or another - as DireRadiant said, I have no trouble with dragons and magic, so it's not a realism thing. I just hadn't thought about it until recently, when I actually did the math, and realized that it seemed a little strange.

It's not a big deal, it's just another way the world of Shadowrun is different from ours. Think of it this way - what if, in Shadowrun, the average height of a human was 3 meters, instead of whatever it is now? You'd have to change the way you thought about some things - buildings would be taller, vehicles would be bigger, crawling around in ventilation shafts would be harder - but it's not really a big deal, it's just different.

It's the same with movement speed. Say you're designing a prison, and you want to know how far apart to space the inner and outer perimeter. In real life, you might decide to put them 25m apart - in SR, you'd need more of a buffer to buy your guards the same amount of time.

It just requires a bit of perspective change, that's all. I'm not going to houserule it, for convenience as much as anything else. (Which I suspect is the real-life justification for these numbers. Was it different in previous editions?)
JoelHalpern
Is the confused walking and running rate a big issue? No.
But it is annoying. For me, very annoying.
For example, it means that when you say that the corp guards are about a block away, people's gut feel for how much time that means is simply completely wrong. The guards can cover that block in half the time you would expect, or even less.

One of the reasons I like using our world as a base for things is that it means we have reasoanble understandings of what fast, slow, big small, etc mean. This distorts taht.

can I cope? Yes. Mostly by just not being precise about where things are.

Yours,
Joel
Dixie Flatline
QUOTE (JoelHalpern @ Feb 22 2010, 03:13 PM) *
Is the confused walking and running rate a big issue? No.
But it is annoying. For me, very annoying.
For example, it means that when you say that the corp guards are about a block away, people's gut feel for how much time that means is simply completely wrong. The guards can cover that block in half the time you would expect, or even less.

One of the reasons I like using our world as a base for things is that it means we have reasoanble understandings of what fast, slow, big small, etc mean. This distorts taht.

can I cope? Yes. Mostly by just not being precise about where things are.

Yours,
Joel


"How far away are the guards?"

"About a block away"

"How long before they get into short-range combat?"

"Maybe 3-5 combat turns if they haul ass"

Seems simple enough for me. Usually I give actual numerical distances... "A hundred meters" instead of "oh about a block" if I want them to take 3 turns to get into combat. I'll ballpark it otherwise and fudge. In the middle of a firefight, nobody's mentally ticking off exact distances while getting shot. In fact, if someone *does* want to know this, they have to spend a turn contemplating it. Most of the time my players are willing to take ballpark figures.
Larsine
QUOTE (kjones @ Feb 23 2010, 12:03 AM) *
Was it different in previous editions?

Everything was different in previous editions. In SR1 you could at most get 4 actions in a turn. In SR2 and SR3 there was no cap on the number of actions you could get, it all depended on how high you could roll on your Initiative test.

Also there was nu cap on your skill ratings, it all depended on how much Karna you would spend on increasing the skill.

If you don't know anything about the SR1-3 rules, then I guess it doesn't make much sense.

SR1 page 64:
QUOTE
On any action, a character gets to move a number of meters equal to his quickness.
Instead of a normal move, a character can run. A character with multiple actions can run only once in a turn, but he can squeeze out some more meters with regular movement. A character cannot combine running with other actions. When running, multiply movement by the run modifier for the character's race, per the following table.
RUNNING TABLE
Race Modifiers
Human x4
Dwarf x3
Elf x4
Ork x4
Troll x3

SR1 also had the Athletics skill with a Running concentration, but no rules for how to use the skill.

SR2 page 83:
QUOTE
When walking, characters may move at a pace equal to their Quickness rating in meters during that Combat Phase.
Characters who are running may move a number of meters equal to their Quickness Rating multiplied by the appropriate running modifier from the table below. The result is in meters per Combat Phase.
Characters with Running Skill may attempt to increase their running distance by spending a Complex Action (Use Skill). Each success against a Target Number 4 increases the character's effective Quickness by 1 point for that Combat Phase.
RUNNING TABLE
Race Modifier
Human x3
Dwarf x2
Elf x3
Ork x3
Troll x2

SR3 page 108 basically had the same rules as SR2, but the table was changed:
QUOTE
RUNNING TABLE
Race Running Modifier
Human x3
Dwarf x2
Elf x3
Ork x3
Troll x3

You do the math to compare to Real Life.

Lars
Hagga
QUOTE (kjones @ Feb 22 2010, 08:33 PM) *
The average, un-augmented human can move 10 meters per round if walking, or 25 meters per round (minimum) when running. That's about 12 kph (7.5 mph) or 30 kph (18.5 mph) respectively.

In both cases, this is really fast. I realize that walking speed isn't a causal stroll, but for me (I went and timed this) moving at that speed is more of a medium jog. And 30 kph is faster than I am physically capable of moving - perhaps this reflects more on my physical abilities than on the rules, and I'm no sprinter, but again, that's the baseline number.

So, are 'runners faster than normal people, do people walk faster in the future, or are the rules just wonky?

Wonky. Running speed is a function of your weight and the strength of your legs and hips. Most people can hold a 15km/h pace, which is 12.5 metres a turning, with a bit of training. Beyond that (as a rough number) you start to run into problems.
Warlordtheft
I'll spare the math, but the human running speed of 25m per combat turn is:

13% slower than the current 60m world record.
25% slower than the current 100m and 200m world records.
11% slower than the current 400m world record.

From this point of view, it might make the spead seem more realistic. But then what is your average human speed?

I think these speeds seem reasonable from this perspective, if you want to keep the game mechanics down.
Creel
Keep in mind that in general runners are going to be more athletically inclined. even the mages and hackers know the value of being able to run away. Also, as has been stated, the speeds are on the upper end of average but they aren't at all extraordinary. 10Ks are routinely run in under an hour, and sprinters have been known to run more than 40kph in the 100m.
X-Kalibur
SR3 Elves with jacked up quickness and cyber skates could move faster than cars, couldn't they?

Something to the effect of 9quick x4 for skates x3 if you made a "running" action, yes? SR2 and 3 materials are at my GMs house, so no reference on hand if I'm totally off.
pbangarth
Years ago, I lived 6 miles (9.6 and-a-bit km) from my girlfriend's place. I walked it in an hour. But I was ... motivated.
Karoline
QUOTE (pbangarth @ Feb 23 2010, 01:13 PM) *
Years ago, I lived 6 miles (9.6 and-a-bit km) from my girlfriend's place. I walked it in an hour. But I was ... motivated.


And runners are motivated to not get hit with bullets. I think it works out reasonably well. A small compromise between real world movement rates and convince. Maybe they would be more accurate with 9m/ct and 23m/ct, but that's harder to remember. Just roll with it, and if it bugs you, remember that your character can throw a car and shoot the wings off a fly without killing the fly.
hobgoblin
as these numbers are mostly about "can i make it to the nearest cover?" then "can i set a new world record on the 100 meter sprint?" i suspect they are "close enough".
Axl
Way too much analysis of a trivial matter. If this rule is seriously bothering you, you need to get a job as an accountant or a rocket scientist.
Karoline
QUOTE (Axl @ Feb 23 2010, 02:40 PM) *
Way too much analysis of a trivial matter. If this rule is seriously bothering you, you need to get a job as an accountant or a rocket scientist.


Nah, rocket scientists aren't allowed to convert units, remember?
cndblank
Motivations (both positive and negative) works wonders. wink.gif

I'd write it off to that.


Now I'm wondering how fast security guards would run towards a disturbance.

Seems to be me they would be worried about an ambush or a diversion.

Or as the saying goes, people always run faster going away from the sound of gun fire than going towards it.



SR4 is pretty generous to running targets.

I mean Partial Cover is +2 defense and gives you a -2 to hit for firing from Cover.
Running is +2 defense and gives you a -2 to hit for firing while running.

But I guess if you take aimed shots, suppression fire, and just the ability to drop out of sight, it is not that bad.
Dakka Dakka
QUOTE (Warlordtheft @ Feb 23 2010, 04:42 PM) *
I'll spare the math, but the human running speed of 25m per combat turn is:

13% slower than the current 60m world record.
25% slower than the current 100m and 200m world records.
11% slower than the current 400m world record.
This is what a human can run, while firing a gun(at -2), or doing whatever he wishes. Dedicated Sprinting is considerably faster, if you are talking about athletes. Joe Average won't be much quicker, but with a high STR and Running you will easily beat the world records. And I'm not talking about Augmentation yet.

QUOTE (Karoline @ Feb 23 2010, 08:45 PM) *
Nah, rocket scientists aren't allowed to convert units, remember?
Lol
Saint Sithney
Strangely, the term "jogging" is used only in the Fatigue Damage section of the Core book. I suppose that is what they consider the "base run rate" of 25m/3s? I'd probably rate a jog as about 15m/3s.

Something that always struck me as dumb is how skimmer disks double movement rate. How is a troll going to glide faster than anyone else?
Karoline
QUOTE (Saint Sithney @ Feb 23 2010, 03:33 PM) *
Strangely, the term "jogging" is used only in the Fatigue Damage section of the Core book. I suppose that is what they consider the "base run rate" of 25m/3s? I'd probably rate a jog as about 15m/3s.

Something that always struck me as dumb is how skimmer disks double movement rate. How is a troll going to glide faster than anyone else?


I'd think maybe jogging is long term walking at 10m/ct which is called walking for convience.

As for why trolls go faster... bigger muscles and longer legs means more thrust when... oh, no, that would be for skates I guess.
Saint Sithney
Maybe they just go faster because the air is afraid to get in their way?
They honk their horns and the air makes room..
Shinobi Killfist
QUOTE (X-Kalibur @ Feb 23 2010, 01:11 PM) *
SR3 Elves with jacked up quickness and cyber skates could move faster than cars, couldn't they?

Something to the effect of 9quick x4 for skates x3 if you made a "running" action, yes? SR2 and 3 materials are at my GMs house, so no reference on hand if I'm totally off.


Yup, but I think a car flooring it would normally beat them but not in acceleration. I liked it this way, I really dug wired reflexes giving people the 6 million dollar man movement speeds. Now in 4th edition everything moves faster for you if you have wired reflexes except for your legs when running. It must be like being a sprinter trapped in a fat kids body.

QUOTE (Saint Sithney @ Feb 23 2010, 04:35 PM) *
Maybe they just go faster because the air is afraid to get in their way?
They just honk their horns and the air makes room?


That is going to be the best answer ever.
Acidsaliva

I'd seriously just hand wave it. Do as Dixie says, give approximate distances and describe it in number of combat rounds till contact.

I attribute metahumanity's increased speed in 2070 down to increased violence, easy proliferation of weapons and increased general paranoia in bystanders. Any one who wasn't fast enough died. Survival of the fittest, chummer.
Neraph
QUOTE (Acidsaliva @ Feb 23 2010, 06:38 PM) *
Survival of the fittest, chummer.

This is a tautology. Just pointing that out.
kjones
QUOTE (Neraph @ Feb 23 2010, 10:42 PM) *
This is a tautology. Just pointing that out.


Um, no? "Survival of the fittest" doesn't just mean "survival of those who are best equipped to survive" - "fitness" is an externally defined term, so it's not tautological. See Wikipedia for more, as always.

Axl: Appropriately enough, I'm a physics student - consider me a rocket scientist in training. (Either that, or I'll be one hell of a chef when I drop out and go to culinary school instead.)

Acidsaliva: I'm all for handwaves, but the problem is that I like to draw out floor plans on graph paper, which doesn't leave me much in the way of wiggle room. I either have to recalibrate my intuition, or have players zipping around like Speedy Gonzales. (Though it's actually not a big deal, as I mentioned before.)
Muspellsheimr
QUOTE (Creel @ Feb 23 2010, 10:50 AM) *
Keep in mind that in general runners are going to be more athletically inclined. even the mages and hackers know the value of being able to run away. Also, as has been stated, the speeds are on the upper end of average but they aren't at all extraordinary. 10Ks are routinely run in under an hour, and sprinters have been known to run more than 40kph in the 100m.

Keep in mind that the running rates given in Shadowrun 4 are used for Infirm, Incompetent (Running), Strength 1 characters. And they are borderline Olympic-level speeds. And the world record speed for the 100m is 37.58 kph. No one has ever sprinted at greater than 40kph as you claim.
pbangarth
QUOTE (Acidsaliva @ Feb 23 2010, 05:38 PM) *
Survival of the fittest, chummer.

QUOTE (Neraph @ Feb 23 2010, 08:42 PM) *
This is a tautology. Just pointing that out.

QUOTE (kjones @ Feb 23 2010, 09:16 PM) *
Um, no? "Survival of the fittest" doesn't just mean "survival of those who are best equipped to survive" - "fitness" is an externally defined term, so it's not tautological. See Wikipedia for more, as always.


Probably a better phrase to encapsulate Darwinian evolution is "survival of the adequate".
Axl
"Appropriately enough, I'm a physics student - consider me a rocket scientist in training." - kjones

rotfl.gif

Good luck with your studies. smile.gif

knasser
QUOTE (DireRadiant @ Feb 22 2010, 08:37 PM) *
Why does a world filled with magic and incredible technology and Dragons need to have to have running speeds modeled on your personal time measurements?


I've always considered the presence of magic, advanced technology and Dragons to make realism more important, not less. There is a big difference in believability between saying X contradicts normal reality and "we're not really bothering with reality". Though different groups may have other tastes, for many of us this stuff undermines our immersion in the world.

Personally, I've crunched these numbers before and I hoped and hoped that they would fix it in the errata, but they did not. The numbers are not too bad on the whole. As Warlordtheft worked out, they're close to real world results and once you factor in the results of a Strength + Athletics roll, it actually matches up reasonably well. There are three provisos required however.

1. You must assume that "Walking" rate is walking 'with a purpose', e.g. on a Run, wanting to get somewhere rather than simply out for a stroll, etc. This is reasonable enough. Walking pace does vary considerably depending on your aims and 9/10 in Shadowrun you're going to be interested in a brisk walk, not a stroll with your partner.
2. You only allow one Sprint action per turn. If you do this, then characters are more or less real world. If you allow a Sprint action per IP, everyone turns into gazelles. This is one of my few house rules. I think it's probably an oversight on the developer's part seeing as the rules are a reasonable approximation of reality if you don't allow multiple sprint actions. Also, I see no reason why cyberware or powers that make you react faster, should make you run much faster.
3. You ignore the hover disc things in Augmentation. I have no idea what they were thinking. As far as I'm concerned, keep your kids cartoons out of my dystopia.

The other issue akin to the one of movement speeds, is that of the lifting rules. If you want my house rules on all these, they're on my site here.

If you really want some fun though, check out what an augmented troll can do or someone with Kid Stealth legs (digitigrade).

K.
Karoline
QUOTE (knasser @ Feb 24 2010, 08:36 AM) *
1. You must assume that "Walking" rate is walking 'with a purpose', e.g. on a Run, wanting to get somewhere rather than simply out for a stroll, etc. This is reasonable enough. Walking pace does vary considerably depending on your aims and 9/10 in Shadowrun you're going to be interested in a brisk walk, not a stroll with your partner.

Agreed. Usually when you give half a care about what your movement speed actually is, it is because the threat of bullets is involved, or sharp objects of some kind. It isn't hard to imagine that a 'walk' is a light job, and a 'run' is really hauling and a 'sprint' is putting everything you have and a few things you don't (Don't forget to factor in adrenaline. It can make Joe Average cop into an Olympic runner)
QUOTE
2. You only allow one Sprint action per turn. If you do this, then characters are more or less real world. If you allow a Sprint action per IP, everyone turns into gazelles. This is one of my few house rules. I think it's probably an oversight on the developer's part seeing as the rules are a reasonable approximation of reality if you don't allow multiple sprint actions. Also, I see no reason why cyberware or powers that make you react faster, should make you run much faster.

You don't actually have to do this. A careful read of the rules shows that you actually do need to sprint on every IP to keep going at high speed, but that the results aren't cumulative. After seeing how many people seemed to think the sprint actions added up, I went ahead and made this thread to point out the rules. Basically your movement resets every IP, so you have to redeclare a run and sprint action, and you restart your sprint result from the base run speed. Don't argue this point here though please, go over to the thread I actually outline it in.
QUOTE
3. You ignore the hover disc things in Augmentation. I have no idea what they were thinking. As far as I'm concerned, keep your kids cartoons out of my dystopia.

Never really looked at them. They don't seem any more off than skates though.
Method
Best fix I've seen around here is one where they change all the movement rates to multiples of 4 and then houseruled that all turns have 4 movement phases even if noone acts in all 4 passes. I'd post a link but I'm on an iPhone. I'm sure someone else could find it in one of the gazillion other threads about how wonky SR4 movement is.
knasser
QUOTE (Karoline @ Feb 24 2010, 02:08 PM) *
Never really looked at them. They don't seem any more off than skates though.


My objection is not one of game balance, but what the image of Bernie the Hover-troll does to my suspension of disbelief. I don't know which designer thought replacing your feet with hair-dryers would be a good addition to Shadowrun or would fit with established levels of realism ("I'm a 250lb augmented ork samurai, watch me glide along on my hover feet"), but I like to think that they were just having an off-day and they're ordinarily sane. I'm going to be devastated if I find they were Robert Derie's idea or something. frown.gif
Creel
QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Feb 23 2010, 10:26 PM) *
Keep in mind that the running rates given in Shadowrun 4 are used for Infirm, Incompetent (Running), Strength 1 characters. And they are borderline Olympic-level speeds. And the world record speed for the 100m is 37.58 kph. No one has ever sprinted at greater than 40kph as you claim.


Top speed of Donovan Bailey and Maurice Greene 1997 World Championship 100 meter sprint (Top speed ~42.5 km/h).

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2000/Katarz...szkiewicz.shtml
Warlordtheft
Which makes the figure still plausible (I did not see yhe figure you quoted in the link though). My basis for the calulations were from Wikipedia's listing of olympic records. What I thought was interesting was that the rates peaked at the 100m-200m times. Probably due to your body needing to accelarate. At 60m you are not up to full speed, and at 400m your endurance becomes a factor.

Looking at allowing a person to move full each IP:
If for each IP you get to move:
1 IP= 30KM hr (80% of an olympic champ)
2 IP= 60 KM hr (160% of an olympic champ)
3 IP= 90 km hr (239% of an olympic champ)
4 IP= 120 km hr (319% of an olympic champ-and btw fast as a cheetah)

My problem with this solution is that at my map scale (1"=2m) a 4IP person can move 60".

Also-we are looking at ideal conditions. On a track there is no chair, corner or other obstacle to slow you down.
X-Kalibur
You don't full move each IP. You full move each combat turn, no matter how many IPs your turn breaks down into.
Saint Sithney
Though, it has been argued that you can stack sprinting modifiers over multiple IPs.
I don't think there's any official ruling on how that works.
Muspellsheimr
QUOTE (knasser @ Feb 24 2010, 06:36 AM) *
I've always considered the presence of magic, advanced technology and Dragons to make realism more important, not less. There is a big difference in believability between saying X contradicts normal reality and "we're not really bothering with reality".

This.

QUOTE (knasser @ Feb 24 2010, 06:36 AM) *
Personally, I've crunched these numbers before and I hoped and hoped that they would fix it in the errata, but they did not. The numbers are not too bad on the whole. As Warlordtheft worked out, they're close to real world results and once you factor in the results of a Strength + Athletics roll, it actually matches up reasonably well. There are three provisos required however.

No. The Walking rate for a human in Shadowrun is not a "walking with a purpose", it is a brisk jog. The Running rate for a human in Shadowrun (not sprinting) is equivalent to (or just below) the speeds gained by talented and physically fit sprinters. The Sprinting rate for a human with moderate skill and ability (dice pool 6) is faster than Usain Bolt. Limiting the Sprint actions to 1 per Combat Turn still places high school track members as equivalent to modern Olympic professional athletes.

Try running your numbers again. I will assist (note real world measurements are taken from the highest end of the scale, all ages)


Shadowrun <> Real World

Walking Rate
3.33 m/s <> 1.51 m/s

Running Rate (Guerrouj 1500m)
8.33 m/s < > 7.28 m/s

Sprinting Rate (Dice Pool 6 / Bolt 100m)
9.66 m/s < > 10.44 m/s [Single Sprint Action, Average Hits]
11.00 m/s < > 10.44 m/s [Two Sprint Actions, Average Hits]
19.00 m/s < > 10.44 m/s [Eight Sprint Actions, Average Hits]

Sprinting Rate (Dice Pool 12 / Bolt 100m)
11.00 m/s < > 10.44 m/s [Single Sprint Action, Average Hits]
13.66 m/s < > 10.44 m/s [Two Sprint Actions, Average Hits]
29.66 m/s < > 10.44 m/s [Eight Sprint Actions, Average Hits]

Sprinting Rate (Dice Pool 20 / Bolt 100m)
11.66 m/s < > 10.44 m/s [Single Sprint Action, Average Hits]
15.00 m/s < > 10.44 m/s [Two Sprint Actions, Average Hits]
35.00 m/s < > 10.44 m/s [Eight Sprint Actions, Average Hits]


For those curious: 35.00 m/s is 126km (or 78.29 miles) per hour.
hobgoblin
on the hover disks, i would expect that one can use much the same kicking motions as on rollerblades to gain speed. The difference will be that the air is frictionless compared to the wheels of the rollerblades.
Saint Sithney
So a troll with skimmer disks starts out moving 70m/ct, and can sprint on top of that?

Let us math this bitch out.

4 IP, max DP, a Force 12 Air Elemental backing with Movement...

211.2 kph * 12 = 2534.4 kph or approx. Mach 2.

Pretty good for a running record, imo.
hobgoblin
leave the spirit out of it, only technical aid.

once magic is added, any attempt at applying science goes out the window...

and honestly, my posting was mostly for those wondering how skimmer disks could multiply movement, rather then override it fully as the user would basically be riding on top of a drone.
Blade
QUOTE (Saint Sithney @ Feb 25 2010, 01:41 PM) *
So a troll with skimmer disks starts out moving 70m/ct, and can sprint on top of that?

Let us math this bitch out.

4 IP, max DP, a Force 12 Air Elemental backing with Movement...

211.2 kph * 12 = 2534.4 kph or approx. Mach 2.

Pretty good for a running record, imo.


Reminds me of when, with a friend, we imagined the centaur with cyberskates (or skimmerdisk, but I find cyberskates more amusing) and wondered if the cyberskates bonus would stack if we added new legs. This in turn led to the concept of the faster-than-light centipede. I don't remember the math, but trust me: you don't want movements modifiers to stack.
(Now back to the giraffe biodrone with hydraulic jacks...)
Wesley Street
QUOTE (knasser @ Feb 24 2010, 08:36 AM) *
You must assume that "Walking" rate is walking 'with a purpose'

Combat walkin'.
Ain't no jive talkin'.


But seriously, that's a pretty obvious point that seems to be missed often. Walking speed in combat isn't equivalent to taking a stroll through the shopping mall or going to the Starbucks down the street on your lunch break. If it's such a big deal, don't use the word "walking." Use "combat shuffling" or "battle jitterbugging" or whatever floats your boat. None of the base speeds have broken the gossamer veil of belief in any game I've run.
Karoline
QUOTE (Saint Sithney @ Feb 25 2010, 04:26 AM) *
Though, it has been argued that you can stack sprinting modifiers over multiple IPs.
I don't think there's any official ruling on how that works.


The problem is there are two different rules in the book. One (Under sprint) says that the bonus from sprint lasts the entire CT, and the other (under movement) says that the bonus lasts only until the person's next IP.
Saint Sithney
QUOTE (Wesley Street @ Feb 25 2010, 05:37 AM) *
Combat walkin'.
Ain't no jive talkin'.


But seriously, that's a pretty obvious point that seems to be missed often. Walking speed in combat isn't equivalent to taking a stroll through the shopping mall or going to the Starbucks down the street on your lunch break. If it's such a big deal, don't use the word "walking." Use "combat shuffling" or "battle jitterbugging" or whatever floats your boat. None of the base speeds have broken the gossamer veil of belief in any game I've run.



It's likely more akin to the quick crouch-walk that a soldier uses while clearing rooms or shooting while moving.


Also, to kill some time, I statted out a base 400bp SURGE troll mage char using possession traditions who can break mach 2.5 on foot.
Shit is gobbles.
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