I tried the search function on here but could not find a thread that addressed this. If it has been covered I appologize.
But, heres the thing. My PCs are coming into some money finally (4 months of play) dispite my best efforts to ruin their hopes and dreams. And while several of them are newish to RP games, they are all good at math.
Wire Reflexes 3 (standard) 100,000 nuyen, 20R availability, >5< essence!
Synaptic Booster 3 (standard) 240,000 nuyen, 18R Availability, 1.5 essence
Now at this level Wired Reflexes is clearly cheaper and worth the buy if you can afford the gouge to your essence.
But...
Wired Reflexes 3 (delta) 1,000,000 dollars! *pinky-lip*, Available? lawl, 2.5 essence
Synaptic Booster 3 (still standard) 240k, 18R, 1.5 essence
Bone lacing
Titanium (standard) 40,000, 16F, 1.5 essence
Bone Density Augmentation 4 (standard) 80,000, 12, 1.2 essence
Titanium (alpha) 80'000, 16F, 1.2 essence
This is much more in line with what I expect. The availabilities are questionable, but you are still getting roughly the same for your money.
Was there an errata on the Synaptic booster that I missed, or is that just one of those things that its silly for runners to not get when its in their price range? Likely leaving a hole in their essence to fill with other stuff.
Full Version: Why bother with Delta 'ware reflexes?
Not all ware is equally good. Wired I is a good price/effect when you're tight on money; after that it's Move-by Wire vs. Synaptic Boosters.
When comparing two options with similar features, Bioware is better. It's the new, sexy technology, that improved on a lot of the original features cyberware was developed for. As an aside, bone lacing is terrible because it is easily detectable and completely illegal, while the comparable bioware is neither Forbidden nor detectable without a lot of assensing or invasive testing.
And that's why i think bioware should be a bit "slower". All bioware should be smoother, nice on essence and "repairs" and feel good. Cyber is fast, cheap, aggressive and POWERFUL and should ruin the bodies and minds.
If you are unsatisfied with the rules as they stand, change them. I would say: Have the Synaptic Booster at maximum rating 2. Bone density the same. Nothing beats Awesometanium in your bones, done.
Or just make the deltaware and such cheap and more readily available for cybertechnology. Since it is the "old" stuff.
If you are unsatisfied with the rules as they stand, change them. I would say: Have the Synaptic Booster at maximum rating 2. Bone density the same. Nothing beats Awesometanium in your bones, done.
Or just make the deltaware and such cheap and more readily available for cybertechnology. Since it is the "old" stuff.
Yeah, I know the pros and cons of Bone Lacing. The groups troll has a fear of metal detectors with his .5 essence score anyway. We wont talk about the the fact that the Steel Lynx drone is quieter than he is. But anyway...
I just thought maybe the Synaptic Booster was meant to be more expensive. 240k and 1.5 essence just seems cheap to maximize the characters IPs.
I just thought maybe the Synaptic Booster was meant to be more expensive. 240k and 1.5 essence just seems cheap to maximize the characters IPs.
QUOTE (Summerstorm @ Mar 23 2010, 04:28 AM) 
And that's why i think bioware should be a bit "slower". All bioware should be smoother, nice on essence and "repairs" and feel good. Cyber is fast, cheap, aggressive and POWERFUL and should ruin the bodies and minds.
That's basically the way it worked pre SR4. Cyberware was much, much better than bioware that did the same thing (exception - muscle replacement) but cost essence (bioware didn't even cost essence back then). For example wired 3 gave +3d6 init and 6 reaction, synaptic only gave +2d6; even wired 2 was better with +2d6 and +4 reaction. SR4 advanced the tech level on bioware making it able to compete and in many cases surpass cyberware.
The trick is where is the 1.5 essence coming from? Since the bio and cyber essence tracks are separate, installing cheap cyberware up front means you are in for some long and expensive medical treatments before having the essence hole available.
QUOTE (Professor Evil Overlord @ Mar 23 2010, 01:43 PM)
That's basically the way it worked pre SR4. Cyberware was much, much better than bioware that did the same thing (exception - muscle replacement) but cost essence (bioware didn't even cost essence back then). For example wired 3 gave +3d6 init and 6 reaction, synaptic only gave +2d6; even wired 2 was better with +2d6 and +4 reaction. SR4 advanced the tech level on bioware making it able to compete and in many cases surpass cyberware.
Yeah i know... And i am trying to skew the feeling back a bit. I just am not that satisfied with the changes made to the "feeling" and atmosphere of the gameworld. It just feels wrong to have "natural" biological systems perform better in the "POWAAAAH"- Aspect. Really, someone with metal arms and legs and structural inforcements in the torso should easily be four or five times stronger than an average man. No amount of vat-grown hyper-muscles should do that. Someone pretty much exchanging his nervous system and crammed full with bypasses, accelerators and such should outperform someone with optimized, broadened nervs and such.
Don't get me wrong i LOVE bioware and many characters of mine had it. In SR3 as well as in SR4. But it should just "feel" different. For example there were those "Over-rection" rules for someone with untriggered (or activated) reaction enhancements: They just flipped out, defended against something that wasn't there, or no real threat. Or shot at something which they saw in the corner of their eye and startled them. Bioware should be more "natural", better controlled and thus not carry these disadvantages (together with most magical enhancements).
Thank you Godwyn.
The cost and time of replacing the cheap 'ware with bioware is a nice limiting factor. For my troll PC it works out like this:
He has Alphaware Wired Reflexes 2. And a bunch of other junk leaving him with .5 essence. He will need to first have those wired reflexes ripped out. Then he will have .5 essence and a 2.4 "essence hole". But, according to Augmentation he cant replace cyberware holes with bioware. He now has a choice. Come up with a million bucks and get Delta reflexes 3 and drop to .4 essence. Or undergo gene therapy for 11 months (minimum to bring himself to 1.6 essence with a 1.3 "cyber hole") AND be without ANY wired reflexes for that whole time. Or Option three, increasing costs even more. Rip out the wired, take a month of therapy, implant a level 1 synapic booster. Resume therapy with start up costs again. Replace with level 2in 5 months. Start over again on therapy...
Well, at least this provide a nice healthy limitation. 80k for even level 1 synaptic boosters can be staggering to a starting character. And the time and money involved in swapping them out can actually make cyberware seem attactive again.
The cost and time of replacing the cheap 'ware with bioware is a nice limiting factor. For my troll PC it works out like this:
He has Alphaware Wired Reflexes 2. And a bunch of other junk leaving him with .5 essence. He will need to first have those wired reflexes ripped out. Then he will have .5 essence and a 2.4 "essence hole". But, according to Augmentation he cant replace cyberware holes with bioware. He now has a choice. Come up with a million bucks and get Delta reflexes 3 and drop to .4 essence. Or undergo gene therapy for 11 months (minimum to bring himself to 1.6 essence with a 1.3 "cyber hole") AND be without ANY wired reflexes for that whole time. Or Option three, increasing costs even more. Rip out the wired, take a month of therapy, implant a level 1 synapic booster. Resume therapy with start up costs again. Replace with level 2in 5 months. Start over again on therapy...
Well, at least this provide a nice healthy limitation. 80k for even level 1 synaptic boosters can be staggering to a starting character. And the time and money involved in swapping them out can actually make cyberware seem attactive again.
And this, I think, is a good thing. Even playing SR3, I love seeing that SR4 has the same SR3 technology, but cheaper and more effective, AND a new, SR4 version which is cheaper and more effective still. That is precisely the system shock, the fear of obsolecense (sp?) that I want to instill in a cyberpunk setting.
Some people can't use Bioware, some can't use cyberware, some are only offered certain choices by circumstances. Life is full of choices and not everyone has access to all the choices and the ability to pick from all of them.
QUOTE (DireRadiant @ Mar 23 2010, 09:47 AM)
Some people can't use Bioware, some can't use cyberware, some are only offered certain choices by circumstances. Life is full of choices and not everyone has access to all the choices and the ability to pick from all of them.
What negative quality makes it so you can't use bioware?
I know Sensitive System makes cyber a real bitch, but I don't know what the bioware version is.
I can agree on the Synaptic Booster 3 vs Wired III.
Although if they have that much cred then MBW III is much better than Wired III.
Nothing says you have to allow it in your campaign.
"That stuff is Blacker than Black and even then the rumors are it is still slower than fiberoptic based hardware."
I run an old school campaign in 2055.
Bioware is rare and double the price but also much harder to detect.
And a lot of stuff is not available.
Synaptic Booster 2 is SOTA and they don't know if they will even be able to get Bioware faster than fiberoptic based hardware.
Although if they have that much cred then MBW III is much better than Wired III.
Nothing says you have to allow it in your campaign.
"That stuff is Blacker than Black and even then the rumors are it is still slower than fiberoptic based hardware."
I run an old school campaign in 2055.
Bioware is rare and double the price but also much harder to detect.
And a lot of stuff is not available.
Synaptic Booster 2 is SOTA and they don't know if they will even be able to get Bioware faster than fiberoptic based hardware.
Also, it is all a matter of time. If you can find a place that installs both WR3 and SB3, you can install the WR3 right away, while the SB must be vat-grown first which adds to the time. And a lot can happen during the waiting time.
Hmm, I rather like the idea of slightly lower maximums on bioware. "Flesh can only take you so far."
As I recall the problem with separate bioware/cyberware essence holes is that they're included in the comparison to determine which of the two essence costs (bio/cyber) is halved, which leads to some odd fluctuations, where adding just a tiny bit more of some implant will actually increase your essence.
As I recall the problem with separate bioware/cyberware essence holes is that they're included in the comparison to determine which of the two essence costs (bio/cyber) is halved, which leads to some odd fluctuations, where adding just a tiny bit more of some implant will actually increase your essence.
I've always gone with the advantage of wired is you can switch it off.
QUOTE (Summerstorm @ Mar 23 2010, 09:28 AM)
Yeah i know... And i am trying to skew the feeling back a bit. I just am not that satisfied with the changes made to the "feeling" and atmosphere of the gameworld. It just feels wrong to have "natural" biological systems perform better in the "POWAAAAH"- Aspect. Really, someone with metal arms and legs and structural inforcements in the torso should easily be four or five times stronger than an average man. No amount of vat-grown hyper-muscles should do that. Someone pretty much exchanging his nervous system and crammed full with bypasses, accelerators and such should outperform someone with optimized, broadened nervs and such.
Maybe wired reflexes vs synaptic boosters doesn't have much of a "POWAAAH" difference, but when you get into cyberlimbs and redlining the "POWAAAH" definitely is still alive.
You might explore redlining and "overclocking" for other cyber.
QUOTE (McCummhail @ Mar 23 2010, 02:37 PM)
Maybe wired reflexes vs synaptic boosters doesn't have much of a "POWAAAH" difference, but when you get into cyberlimbs and redlining the "POWAAAH" definitely is still alive.
You might explore redlining and "overclocking" for other cyber.
You might explore redlining and "overclocking" for other cyber.
I'd missed the sidebar about redlining, thanks for pointing that out!
Page 44 of Augmentation for anyone else that happened to miss that little gem.
KnightIII, you sound like you're gonna fit right into this little looneybin ^^
QUOTE (Ophis @ Mar 23 2010, 09:34 AM)
I've always gone with the advantage of wired is you can switch it off.
I'd have to agree with Ophis here, the only way to turn down the enhanced reactions from Bioware would be with drugs, whereas Wired can be switched off. Usually a good thing if your Sammy's jumpy in a new place and his guard's up... helps to not blow the waitress's head off when she taps him on the shoulder asking if he wants a drink.
RAW? Not as far as I know, but just the way I've always played it and understood it.
The "switch it off" interpretation is cool, but like you said, there's nothing in RAW about using Wired Reflexes or MBW (I call em "twitch-rigs") making you jumpy or prone to overreaction. I wouldn't mind playing it that way if it were my character, but if the GM tried to foist something like that on me without telling me beforehand, I'd be unhappy.
Also, you can't turn off bioware, but you can't hack it either.
Also, you can't turn off bioware, but you can't hack it either.
QUOTE (Wandering One @ Mar 23 2010, 03:41 PM)
I'd have to agree with Ophis here, the only way to turn down the enhanced reactions from Bioware would be with drugs, whereas Wired can be switched off. Usually a good thing if your Sammy's jumpy in a new place and his guard's up... helps to not blow the waitress's head off when she taps him on the shoulder asking if he wants a drink.
RAW? Not as far as I know, but just the way I've always played it and understood it.
RAW? Not as far as I know, but just the way I've always played it and understood it.
Triggers and such are discussed at length on p.32 of Augmentation.
Doing a quick search, I found no mention of any switches for Bio-ware.
Additionally, spasms and such are linked by RAW to Move-by-wire systems (AUG, p.40),
but once again no evidence of detriments to standard reflex enhancement with a quick search.
These kind of reactions from a jumpy reflex enhanced user could be a source of social penalties
in line with the penalties suggested for heavily augmented characters in both the main book and augmentation.
EDIT: Reaction enhanced people overreacting is in part an artifact from SR3,
as is MBW causing TLE-x. However there is this bit:
QUOTE (AUG @ p.29)
> Same goes for reaction augs and wires. When you become used to
reacting at those speeds, everybody else seems impossibly sluggish
and tediously slow-moving. More than just grating, it can make you
cocky and feed a sociopathic sense of superiority. Not to mention the
jitters and jumpiness from always being on edge.
> Nephrine
reacting at those speeds, everybody else seems impossibly sluggish
and tediously slow-moving. More than just grating, it can make you
cocky and feed a sociopathic sense of superiority. Not to mention the
jitters and jumpiness from always being on edge.
> Nephrine
I was just working on my Cyber Sam backup character "Meat" using Universal Soldier as a concept...and reading through all the bio and cyber. I'd really like to give him some cyberware, but I just keep seeing the better bioware alternatives. He's going to be the heavy ranged backup (the group has none but a dual pistol wielder) but for the life of me, I couldn't find anything aside from the cybereye/cyberear stuff. I know I'll have at least the lower arms as cyber for the cyber gyromounts, and a fingertip compartment.....but for the actual gritty cyberware I'm at a loss. Why take full cyber arms/torso?
Cyberarms with built-in RC for the win. Sure, you can get that dorky harness, but where's the fun in that?
Thanks McCummhail, I really need to sit down with Augmentation one of these days/weeks (I've just browsed certain highlights still, my life tends to be busy). I never played SR3 though, so that was nice to know, the above was mostly a house rule we had for SR2, to help balance the 'always on' sammies, along with a number of willpower and perception mechanics we wrapped it in. It's hard not to deck the guy who just surprised you.
Curiousity though, do most of you play reflexes as true reflexes, or as a form of low end super-speed? The fluff below seems more like something the Flash would encounter then someone who's reflexes were keyed up. It's no fun to completely play them that way all the time, I know (Roll Instincts+Training... you shoot them, or you duck what you thought was a grenade (about a second later it's a strobe light...), we tried it, it sucked), but general perception of the gear itself. (Sorry if this seems a derail of the thread.)
Curiousity though, do most of you play reflexes as true reflexes, or as a form of low end super-speed? The fluff below seems more like something the Flash would encounter then someone who's reflexes were keyed up. It's no fun to completely play them that way all the time, I know (Roll Instincts+Training... you shoot them, or you duck what you thought was a grenade (about a second later it's a strobe light...), we tried it, it sucked), but general perception of the gear itself. (Sorry if this seems a derail of the thread.)
Think the first Matrix-Movie where Neo one-handedly beats up mr.smith.
And the bullet-dodging. THAT's what reflex-work is supposed to do, nothing else.
And the bullet-dodging. THAT's what reflex-work is supposed to do, nothing else.
QUOTE (KnightIII @ Mar 23 2010, 09:43 AM)
But, according to Augmentation he cant replace cyberware holes with bioware.
<twitch> Really?
Wasn't that errataed?
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 23 2010, 06:10 PM)
Wasn't that errataed?
There is, unfortunately, no official errata for augmentation.
There may be some dev comments or FAQ entries, though.
My copy of Augmentation, p. 128 says "The effing munchkin PCs only get a dang hole for they same type of crap they took out." Underneath my handwriting the printed texts says you only get "credit for the same type (bio or cyber)"
*shrugs* i still say they should have stayed with essence and bio index . .
Which was just as quirky, really. For most people it simply meant you could safely have 3 points worth of bio. (Bio Index was Essence + 3)
So?
Higher than that meant you got other problems.
And by the way, in SR3, there was a twitch-roll for reflex worked characters.
for every ini die above your natural one, you got a +2 i think on your target number to not over reakt.
Higher than that meant you got other problems.
And by the way, in SR3, there was a twitch-roll for reflex worked characters.
for every ini die above your natural one, you got a +2 i think on your target number to not over reakt.
QUOTE (underaneonhalo @ Mar 23 2010, 03:33 PM)
I'd missed the sidebar about redlining, thanks for pointing that out!
My pleasure. Redlining cyberlimbs brought some of the Power of cyber back for me.Was nice to spring a Cyber-Samurai on players that had assumed mundanes inferior to an adept Swordsman.
QUOTE (Wandering One @ Mar 23 2010, 05:19 PM)
Thanks McCummhail, I really need to sit down with Augmentation one of these days/weeks (I've just browsed certain highlights still, my life tends to be busy). I never played SR3 though, so that was nice to know, the above was mostly a house rule we had for SR2, to help balance the 'always on' sammies, along with a number of willpower and perception mechanics we wrapped it in. It's hard not to deck the guy who just surprised you.
Curiousity though, do most of you play reflexes as true reflexes, or as a form of low end super-speed? The fluff below seems more like something the Flash would encounter then someone who's reflexes were keyed up. It's no fun to completely play them that way all the time, I know (Roll Instincts+Training... you shoot them, or you duck what you thought was a grenade (about a second later it's a strobe light...), we tried it, it sucked), but general perception of the gear itself. (Sorry if this seems a derail of the thread.)
Once I had to answer outlandish and random questions from players, I started reading more closely.Curiousity though, do most of you play reflexes as true reflexes, or as a form of low end super-speed? The fluff below seems more like something the Flash would encounter then someone who's reflexes were keyed up. It's no fun to completely play them that way all the time, I know (Roll Instincts+Training... you shoot them, or you duck what you thought was a grenade (about a second later it's a strobe light...), we tried it, it sucked), but general perception of the gear itself. (Sorry if this seems a derail of the thread.)
Hypothetically the world seeming to move slower, etc would not literally happen unless you increased the frame per second intake of your vision and/or altered the perception speed of the mind.
Our table works on the notion that mundane speed enhancements increase the input/output speed of trigger/response, leading to the illusion of speed on the lower ends and nearly subconscious ID level action with higher level MBW.
We reserve Bullet-time time/perception warping for magic.
From the first time I saw how they'd changed Synaptic Accelerators in SR4, I thought they were a bit to good at the top end. That said- well, yeah, I can live with it. Sure, there's typically no reason to ever buy delta (or even beta, or arguably even alpha) wired 3- you get better performance for less with synaptic accelerators 3. Even without discounting the possible essence hole issues, you can also probably find better use for 1,000,000 and 2.5 e worth of cyber than delta wired 3. Sometimes it just doesn't pay off to try and push a technology... its better to start over with a new paradigm.
Hmm- can think of ONE case where Delta Wire 3 might be better. If you are spending lots of essence on bioware (even without the SA) than the essence cost ofyou cyber is effectively halved, meaning delta wired 3 would be less essence than synaptic 3. It gets even better if you have adapsyn.
Nah, chances are if you bought cheap cyber, you have an essence greater than .75, but you have more than 1.5 e worth of cyber. So you replace the cheap cyber with different CYBER (or keep it, if its compatible with synaptic accelrators) and then you put in the SA, which only costs .75 essence because its cost is halved (less bio than cyber).
Hmm- can think of ONE case where Delta Wire 3 might be better. If you are spending lots of essence on bioware (even without the SA) than the essence cost ofyou cyber is effectively halved, meaning delta wired 3 would be less essence than synaptic 3. It gets even better if you have adapsyn.
QUOTE (Godwyn @ Mar 23 2010, 01:07 PM)
The trick is where is the 1.5 essence coming from? Since the bio and cyber essence tracks are separate, installing cheap cyberware up front means you are in for some long and expensive medical treatments before having the essence hole available.
Nah, chances are if you bought cheap cyber, you have an essence greater than .75, but you have more than 1.5 e worth of cyber. So you replace the cheap cyber with different CYBER (or keep it, if its compatible with synaptic accelrators) and then you put in the SA, which only costs .75 essence because its cost is halved (less bio than cyber).
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 24 2010, 01:10 AM)
Wasn't that errataed?
Nope, and why would it be?
To clean up with the accounting.
Well, it's not like your sammies switch their loadout daily. Not that much of bookkeeping.
QUOTE (KnightIII @ Mar 23 2010, 04:33 PM)
My copy of Augmentation, p. 128 says [Snip]
"credit for the same type (bio or cyber)"
"credit for the same type (bio or cyber)"
Odd, mine does not say that. I've got CGL's Second printing, which do you have?
Mine says:
QUOTE
Most augmentations wether bioware, cyberware, genetech, or nanocybernetics, have an associated Essence Cost. When a character has an implant removed to be replaced or upgraded, this leaves what is known as an "Essence hole"--a disparity between the total Essence Cost of her implants (see Cyberware and Bioware, p.84, SR4) and her current Essence. This Essence hole never "heals" naturally. It may, however, be used as a "credit" for any new implants--simply deduct the Essence hole from the new implant's Essence Cost before applying it to your total. In other words, if you remove one implant that had an Essence Cost of 1, and you install a new implant costing 1.1 Essence, your subtract the 1 point of Essence hole from the cost and only subtract 0.1 from your actual Essence.
Essence holes are important when replacing or upgrading implants. If a character replaces an implant with one of a higher grade, the new one may well have lower Essence Cost than the old one and the character will develope an Esssence hole that she can fill with further augmentations. LIkewise, upgrading an implant often increases it's Essence Cost--characters might choose to remove another implant to create an Essence hole so she can upgrade her impant without losing more Essence.
Note that Essence lost from other sources--addiction , a blood spirit's Energy Drain power, etc.--does not leave an Essence hole that mat be filled up with implants. That Essence is lost for good.
Essence holes are important when replacing or upgrading implants. If a character replaces an implant with one of a higher grade, the new one may well have lower Essence Cost than the old one and the character will develope an Esssence hole that she can fill with further augmentations. LIkewise, upgrading an implant often increases it's Essence Cost--characters might choose to remove another implant to create an Essence hole so she can upgrade her impant without losing more Essence.
Note that Essence lost from other sources--addiction , a blood spirit's Energy Drain power, etc.--does not leave an Essence hole that mat be filled up with implants. That Essence is lost for good.
Bold emphasis mine.
QUOTE (Tachi @ Mar 24 2010, 12:08 AM)
Odd, mine does not say that. I've got CGL's Second printing, which do you have?
Bold emphasis mine.
Bold emphasis mine.
I have the pdf version which says:
QUOTE (AUG @ p.128)
This Essence hole
never “heals” naturally. It may, however, be used as a “credit” for
any new implants of the same type (cyber- or bioware)—simply
deduct the Essence hole from the new implant’s Essence cost before
applying it to your total.
never “heals” naturally. It may, however, be used as a “credit” for
any new implants of the same type (cyber- or bioware)—simply
deduct the Essence hole from the new implant’s Essence cost before
applying it to your total.
I thought my rulebook had integrity, perhaps not?
QUOTE (McCummhail @ Mar 23 2010, 10:19 PM)
I have the pdf version which says:
I thought my rulebook had integrity, perhaps not?
I thought my rulebook had integrity, perhaps not?
Look on the Table of Contents and after the "Copyright paragraph", before the "Find us online". There should be a column centered blurb that states which printing the PDF was made from.
QUOTE (nezumi @ Mar 23 2010, 02:46 PM)
And this, I think, is a good thing. Even playing SR3, I love seeing that SR4 has the same SR3 technology, but cheaper and more effective, AND a new, SR4 version which is cheaper and more effective still. That is precisely the system shock, the fear of obsolecense (sp?) that I want to instill in a cyberpunk setting.
I can only half agree here. I remember most of my players main complaints were that, with bioware becoming more superior, it was starting to feel much less like cyberpunk. By fifth edition, once prices drop down, we'll probably be effectively playing...biopunk.
I liked the way bio/cyber was done in third edition to be honest; but I can roll with the punched. Most of the time only our fighters end up getting bio anyway. My hackers are still using encephalons and Math SPUSs
QUOTE (Tachi @ Mar 24 2010, 12:28 AM)
Look on the Table of Contents and after the "Copyright paragraph", before the "Find us online". There should be a column centered blurb that states which printing the PDF was made from.
Version 1.0 (July 2007), based on first printing by Catalyst Game Labs,
an imprint of InMediaRes Productions, LLC
Good point.
The reality of it really pisses me off.
Have a good night guys.
/ragequit the internet
QUOTE (Brol_The_Mighty @ Mar 23 2010, 01:15 PM)
Why take full cyber arms/torso?
Because it's unbelievably easy to hit your augmented max on all body stats with cyber replacement.
QUOTE (McCummhail @ Mar 23 2010, 11:32 PM)
There is, unfortunately, no official errata for augmentation.
There may be some dev comments or FAQ entries, though.
There may be some dev comments or FAQ entries, though.
To give you some relief: The errata has been integrated in the german augmentation book. There are no different essence holes anymore, except essence lost through energy drain.
And again, *does his best Soundwave impression* American Stuff inferior, German Stuff superior!
Also, Cybertorso/Limbs because there's such cool stuff for them. And you can switch them out in Seconds, if you have Spareparts around.
And they give more Boxes on Physical Damage Resistance Track.
Hmm, would Energy-Drain be the loophole you can use though?
2 Essence holes, one from Bio, one from Cyber, get essence sucked and now you only have one big essence hole?
Probably not, but i thought i'd ask anyway.
Also, Cybertorso/Limbs because there's such cool stuff for them. And you can switch them out in Seconds, if you have Spareparts around.
And they give more Boxes on Physical Damage Resistance Track.
Hmm, would Energy-Drain be the loophole you can use though?
2 Essence holes, one from Bio, one from Cyber, get essence sucked and now you only have one big essence hole?
Probably not, but i thought i'd ask anyway.
So the official ruling is, unless you have the German version, you're screwed? Ahem... I mean... is the German version an updated version, or is that a typo? Does 2nd printing supersede 1st printing, errata-style? My Troll Cybersam really wants to know.
Synaptic booster doesn't allow for reaction enhancers, Wired reflexes III does. But when spending a millions in reflexware, you want to go the MBW way anyway.
Also, Wired III can be developed as part of a suite, even though suites with Wired III most likely don't exist, or are only used by Mitsuhama to outfit zero-zone hunters.
Also, Wired III can be developed as part of a suite, even though suites with Wired III most likely don't exist, or are only used by Mitsuhama to outfit zero-zone hunters.
A point I haven't seen mentioned here is that cutting edge technology is rarely beneficial to everything it can apply to.
Ever notice how we don't have carbon fibre juice cartons that are resitant to crushing without increasing the weight too much? It's because the benefits don't warrant the expenditure and it happens all the time.
Not every deltaware clinic is going to offer everything in delta-form for various reasons anyway, but the one I've just illustrated is perfectly realistic.
Ever notice how we don't have carbon fibre juice cartons that are resitant to crushing without increasing the weight too much? It's because the benefits don't warrant the expenditure and it happens all the time.
Not every deltaware clinic is going to offer everything in delta-form for various reasons anyway, but the one I've just illustrated is perfectly realistic.
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Mar 24 2010, 10:23 AM)
Hmm, would Energy-Drain be the loophole you can use though?
2 Essence holes, one from Bio, one from Cyber, get essence sucked and now you only have one big essence hole?
2 Essence holes, one from Bio, one from Cyber, get essence sucked and now you only have one big essence hole?
No, you don't. You get one essence hole through augmentations and another through essence drain or addiction or stuff like that. While you can use the first essence hole for new ware (doesn't matter whether bio or cyber), the other essence hole will be there forever and won't take any essence cost through ware. (Like you have some ware in you and can't remove it.) Only possibility: Use revitalization or gene augmented healing (yes, it can repair some essence loss!).
QUOTE (Cheshyr @ Mar 24 2010, 03:21 PM)
So the official ruling is, unless you have the German version, you're screwed? Ahem... I mean... is the German version an updated version, or is that a typo? Does 2nd printing supersede 1st printing, errata-style? My Troll Cybersam really wants to know.
Well, there seems to be erratas of all books, but they aren't published. We got only the errated version of the augmentation with two or three more cyber suits.
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