Ah I do remember something about someone trying to ban sharp point kitchen knives after the gun bans over in the EU.

yea there is. Don't vote for those who try to infringe upon individual rights, especially if they say its for the good of (insert a group here such as children).

APDS doesn't mean "tungsten carbide cored", or "steel cored", which is what a real armor piercing round would be. APDS is "Armor Piercing Discarding Sabot", which basically means that the projectile is encased in another piece that flies out of the barrel of the weapon and is discarded while the projectile, which I guess is fin stabilized if I recall correctly, continues to fly to the target. It's like the sniper rifle in the first Halo. If you watched the firing animation closely you noticed something falling out of the barrel besides for the actual projectile.

So you could always get steel cored ammunition for your weapons, but that's not what SR APDS is. SR APDS is something ridiculous like a smaller diameter fin-stabilized pistol round that's been accelerated by coming out the barrel in an extra container. If someone did something that comically over engineered with a pistol in real life it would probably be so small and high velocity that it wouldn't cause very much trauma to a living target.


By the way, if you want to have solid object penetration from your pistol but don't want to pay ridiculous amounts of money for armor piercing rounds at a gun show, just go with 7.62 x 25 Tokarev. It has excellent penetration for a pistol cartridge. And it is really cheap. The only hard part is finding a pistol that fires it. But J&G Sales has one available right now!

if you ever get your hands on stuff (1) don't brag (2) don't waste it all on a target.

About a year ago I bought a RL PS90 carbine and 2 boxes of 5.7X28mm ammo. One box was normal but the other had blue tips and a higher charge 40 gr as opposed to 27gr. I havn't seen the higher charges since but at the range use the mosre commonly found lighter rounds.

Cool, I shoot a few rounds on the PS90 awhile back, and enjoyed. What stopped me from buying one was the ammo cost and also the barrel length (something about the extension to make it legal rifle length always bugged me, the mp-5 carbine I have has the fake suppressor extension rather than just a long barrel) and instead I bought the FS2000 instead. Plus, yeah, the FS fires rifle rounds so less worries about any penetration.

It's only $200 to get the permit to cut the barrel off...

So what you're saying is don't vote for anyone?

Yeah! What have children ever done for us?

Does this frustration against politicians who limit our freedoms carry over to the war on terror/patriot act or is it just guns?

my bad. So er, spirits and stick n shock, what do ya think?

So i guess you didn't read the article i linked to at all.
Becouse 6.5x25mm CBJ really is a APDS pistol round for 9mm pistols/SMG:s.

Oh and that condesending tone is really not needed.

The sabot of a large calibre APDS consists of a light high strength alloy full diameter pot and base unit, which is screwed together. The front part of the pot has 3-4 petals (sabots) which are covered with a centering band (often a nylon derivative). The rear half has a rubber obturator and driving band (again nylon) held in place by the screw-in base unit. The base unit, if a tracer element is attached to the sub-projectile, has a hole located at the centre. Before firing, the sub-projectile and sabot are locked together. Due to the high setback forces, friction between the pot and sub-projectile allows spin to be transferred, so stabilising the sub-projectile. Small/medium calibre APDS use a lightweight high strength alloy base pot and three or more plastic petals. To transfer the spin to the core in small/medium calibre weapons, the core tends to have a notch at its base. Under bore acceleration, which can be higher than 100,000 g, the uneven base is forced into the softer pot material, locking the sub-projectile to the pot and imparting spin. Not all small/medium calibre APDS rely on this technique, another method for spin coupling is by using the forward plastic petals. The petals are of a slightly larger diameter than the lands in the rifled bore. This forces the petals tightly against the core, increasing the friction between them and allowing the spin to be transferred.
...
When a large calibre APDS is fired and while still within the bore, the setback forces shear the forward petals, partly unlocking the sub-projectile from the sabot, but still holding it rigidly within the pot. Gas pressure is used to delay the unlocking of the pins holding the rear part of the sub-projectile by gyroscopic forces. Once outside the barrel, the pins, centering band and forward petals are released or discarded by projectile spin, the aerodynamic drag removes the pot/base unit. As an APDS sub-projectile does not require driving bands and the core is supported at the base and ogive region, a far more aerodynamic projectile shape can be chosen. This, in combination with the sub-projectiles’ higher sectional density, gives the resulting sub-projectile vastly reduced aerodynamic drag in comparison to the APCR. Both the higher initial velocity and the reduced drag result in high terminal velocity at impact. This also lowers flight time and improves accuracy. Accuracy can suffer if there are unwanted sabot/sub-projectile interactions during discard.

Real quickly here, since I am going to bed, quick definition from Wikipedia of APDS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APDS
Are you telling me that all that stuff was covered in the article you linked to as being part of the cartridge in question? I mean, maybe it was, but I don't remember having read all of that in the original article.

This is what I think would happen if you got hit with stick and shock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6zBjYIyz-0...feature=related

You end up in a crappy music video?

So your saying that becouse all of that wasn't mentioned in a short block post(longer article in the subject is linked at bottom) a round concisting of a armor piercing sub-munition surrounded by a larger disgarding sabot isn't an APDS round, i'm pretty sure that covered all parts of the name APDS.
Ofcource its not officially called that becouse the manufacturer doesn't even call it a AP round saying that is just a bonus attribute, whichs is kinda hilarious when you see what it does to an armor.

You end up in a crappy music video?

But as I understand it, it's NOT technically APDS. I remember asking a firearms instructor maybe 7 years ago if anyone made APDS for small arms since at that time I played Shadowrun but was just a novice at shooting. He explained to me how while there were a few attempts to do something resembling APDS with a sub munition that these designs were not very successful and that APDS was not technically the right way to refer to those.

Around the same time I asked a different instructor about APDS and he started talking about tanks.

So I don't think that design you're citing is either a "first" or truly APDS.

The term "APDS" in real life is usually reserved for vehicular weapon ammo.

The technically correct term for small arms scale saboted rounds is SLAP, or Saboted Light Armor Penetrator.




-karma

Sometimes I forget how Awesul the early 80's were.

But as I understand it, it's NOT technically APDS.

It's only $200 to get the permit to cut the barrel off...

I'm shaking my fist at you right now. Technicalities!

How you get a shotgun to be armor piercing:
1. Got to gun store.
2. Buy slug rounds.
3. Shoot at body armor.

My recollection is that both type II and type IIIA armor are capable of stopping a shotgun slug. While there's a few kinds of shotgun slugs that are essentially entirely steel, significantly increasing their velocity and intended to damage or penetrate hard armor (type III/IV), your basic shotgun slug doesn't have enough energy delivered to a small enough area to punch through body armor.

It might not punch through, but trama plates or no. The armor just means you die without holes in your corpse.

But most sabot slugs will penetrate especially at closer ranges, but the hydrostatic shock regardless is going to be nasty

My recollection is that both type II and type IIIA armor are capable of stopping a shotgun slug. While there's a few kinds of shotgun slugs that are essentially entirely steel, significantly increasing their velocity and intended to damage or penetrate hard armor (type III/IV), your basic lead shotgun slug doesn't have enough energy delivered to a small enough area to punch through body armor.