Okay, I am new to SR 4e and I'm leaning towards making a character with a major cybernetic overhaul.
He is also designed for covert ops
My stats.

Bod 3
Agi 1
Rct 3
Str 1
Cha 3
Int 7 ( Exceptional Attribute )
Log 4
Will 4

My cyber gear. I'm also taking Biocompatibility to reduce essence cost.

2 Full Obvious Alphaware Arms Customized: 5 Body 6 Strength 6 Agility on both
2 Full Obvious Alphaware Legs Customized: 5 Body 6 Strength 6 Agility on both
1 Alphaware Obvious Torso

So first question, Since all cyberlimbs have Str and AGi 6 will the effective stats be 6
Second question, Is the torso needed to keep my Strength and Agility from being affected?
Third question, Will me taking the Cyber Torso interfere with taking wired reflexes and or reaction enhancers which are to be obtained later?

I'm still working on which skills i need but
I want locksmith and hardware so most doors cant keep me out.
Athletics skill group
Infiltration skill group
Tracking
Some form of close combat and one ranged weapon.
Any advise on skills would be nice.

Thank You,
Cyberjocky

Get autopickers R6 and you wont' have to worry about most locks ever, and you can save points on locksmith

Every shadowrunner should really have:

Athletics: 2
Infiltration: 2
Influence: 2

as a very basic necessity of being a shadowrunner.
You can of course, raise those higher depending on role.

5 cyberlimbs is maybe not the best 'new player' setup, but it's not like you can't do that. It doesn't affect Wires or anything like that. Torso is required for limb stats above a certain point.

I doubt you need to waste that much BP (Exceptional, Maxed) on Int, esp. if you're leaving Reaction so low. Reaction is for Initiative and 'don't get shot'.

The 'best' Firearms is Automatics, because you can get Machine Pistols, SMGs, and ARs. If you're 'covert ops' means 'Navy SEALS', then you want that. If your 'covert ops' means 'ninja burglar', then you might prefer Pistols, which are easier to hide.

So, here is how it works: For things that use only your arms (like firing a gun) or things that only use your legs (like running) or things that only use both of those (like climbing) you have the stats of the cyberlimbs. For things that use the entire body (like melee combat (May just be arms or just arms and legs, talk to your GM) and soaking damage) you use the average of your cyberlimbs and real attributes. So you would have 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 +3(torso) + 3 (real body) / 6 for your overall body. Same goes for overall strength/agi for any case in which that is imporant.

Torso doesn't effect your ability to get any other cyberware. As for needing it for the limbs, I'm not sure. I remember something about it being required, but not the exact rules.

Unless you're just dying to be robocop, I think it's easier to get your natural stats higher (Muscle Replacement 2 is cheap). A 5-limb build is more tank than covert, especially because you glow on sensor scans like a Christmas tree.

So you still have you natural head and i assume the torso is standart 3/3/3 as you didn't mention any customising
This gives you the following stat:
Body = (2*3+4*5)/6 = 4,333 = 4
Strenght = (1+3+4*6)/6 = 4.667 = 4 (as its avarage rounding down)
Agility = (1+3+4*6)/6 = 4.667 = 4

And obvious cyber at that.

And if race isn't an issue, I'd probably do Ork. Saves a little on the Str and Bod.

Thanks for the replies the only reason I kept reaction so low was for the chance of getting reaction enhancer rating 3 and wired reflexes rating 3 which should raise reaction to 9. And would a jammer fix me being mainly cybernetic.

Fix? Not sure what you mean, but a jammer wouldn't stop people seeing your obvious cyber, and certainly wouldn't stop a cyberware scanner picking it up with ease.

Max i was reading on page 343 of the 20th anniversary book that only the cyber limbs involved use their stats and the only time it mentions to use the average is the body when getting shot at. It gives an analogy to attacking using the limb involved only and things that require coordination use the lowest of the stats of limbs involved IE running in this case would use my cyber stats and attacking would only use the limb attacking with.

I am wondering if I am just misreading this.

Thank You,
Cyberjocky

I was refering to fixing me showing up on scanners in a building im sneaking into, I dont mind if people see me as cyber since nothing about the cyberlimbs I have is restricted or forbidden.


Thank You,
Cyberjocky

Yeah, jammer doesn't do anything against a cyberware scanner, and people would be suspicious if it conked out when you went through it anyway. This is however only a problem when you go through a cyberware scanner (generally alot like metal detectors now adays)

It's true that many tests would use the limb stats instead of the overall.

So the only problem im seeing having is popping up on scanners with having wight now 4+ implants giving a scanner a +2 dice pool and if its rating 6 that makes a dice pool of 8. With me in alphaware which is threshold 2 the scanner would only need 2 hits on the 8 dice to see me, correct?

I do eventually want to get as much deltaware possible to increase threshold to 4 and I know I will get 6+ implants eventually which should give it a +3 dice rolls to scan me so i would be looking at dice pool of 9 to beat a threshold 4, correct? I am assuming the GM would make all scanner rating 6 just because im making my guy heavily cyber.

Seems like the bonus should be bigger than that. I mean you're dealing with 4 full arms and a full torso. You're technically correct that it would only be a +2, but I think most people would add a full die for each limb because they constitute so much cyber compared to most other cyberware.

I'm not sure why a MAD scanner wouldn't work either; if so, that's always threshold 1. If I were being covert, I wouldn't risk 2 hits on 8 dice; there's no reason there couldn't be multiple scanners, so anything above 10% chance of being found is a big deal, IMO. Remember that the alpha/beta/delta (you'll never get delta) threshold increases only apply to that one item. Unless you're 100% delta, you're not really a threshold 4.

I think it is a mistake to plan ahead for your augmented max Reaction, given the cost of that 'ware. *Especially* because you'll never have the money to have enough essence to get them.

Cyberware scanners are pretty short-range, 15 meters (about 50 feet) and highly directional. For infiltration purposes, you're better off worrying about other detection methods: cameras, both visible-spectrum and thermographic, ultrasound sensors, motion sensors, etc. Read the section entitled "Security Systems," starting on page 259 of SR4A.

*shrug* I feel like 50 feet is pretty far if you're infiltrating anyplace except an open field.

I will have plenty of essence

2 arms 2 essence
2 legs 2 essence
1 torso 1.5 essence
1 rating 3 reaction enhancer 0.9 essence
1 rating 3 wired reflexes 5 essence


this is 11.4 essence cost
now I want all deltaware so half that
5.7 essence cost
plus biocompatibility which is a 10% reduction
5.13 essence cost

considering I boosted by inuition to 7 and reaction is 3 my initiative is 10 since the max unaugmented initiative is 12 normally, my initiative can only get better up to 16 with what I want to get.

I do see the price as an issue though but I figure I may be able to steal some from labs at one point or another.

Granted I have been told that I will have poor social skills ( i'm not the negotiator of the group ) because of being mostly cyber and swimming will be a pain.

Thank You,
Cyberjocky

How're you getting deltaware out of chargen?

He's not, he's talking about the future.

Like I said, you'll never get the *money* to *have* enough essence. It's impossible to steal deltaware. They build it into your body during surgery. Long surgery. At secure facilities.

There's just no reason to spend, what, 45 BP on +1 Intuition.

Don't leave an initiative enhancer until later. Grab wired reflexes 2 in chargen; you can always upgrade it later, and having only one IP will hurt you.

We're all talking about the future here; it's in 2070.

Your face is talking about the future, Doc. Bruises!

He has no choice, he already spent all his essence on limbs. There's no room for Wires.

Five finger discounts require no money

You can't steal it. It's not possible. We're not even talking about game balance from the GM's side. Deltaware comes from delta clinics with delta docs in delta surgery, where they custom design and custom build the implants into your body. You can't 'steal' that.

There's noway to steal deltaware, its custom build to each invidual.

Unless you have a CyberDoc as one of your characters in the group.

Cybertechonology 6 specialty (design)
Medicine 6 specialty (installing ware)

A Facility will get you most of the parts you need.

Sure, it's only viable for larger shadowrun groups. But it is doable.
add a couple of knowledge skills:
Cyberware (design)
Bioware( design )

that being said, almost noone wants to play that character

My face is talking to your face about the future. HA!

I was always under the impression that deltaware was as close to art as technology could be. Pieces are more or less crafted on the spot - it's essentially a suit tailored to your specifications. It would be sorta hard to steal such pieces. However, YMMV. I just know how I'd handle it if I were running the group.

YERA you ninja. However he is absolutely correct. You can steal high-quality swag, but deltaware is strictly in the realm of 'you done so good we're gonna give you a treat.'

Edit: sabs, I did play that character, but the thresholds one would have to meet to create a piece of deltaware would keep said character off the streets and in their well-equipped facility for the entirety of the campaign.

Deltaware is best left to the megacorps with black clinics to design, implant, and cover the cost. I don't think a facility is going to have the parts 'on hand' to build a piece of 'ware that's ten times the price of the equivalent off-the-shelf swag.

Nowai, sabs. If that character could do it, then it would be done all the time in street clinics. That guy could probably install Betaware, with help.

He has a 6 skill.
Go read what a 6 skill means.
He's one of the best designers of cyberware in the world.
He's the Olympic athlete of Cyberware design.

I think people who make broken shadowrun characters forget what a 6 skill means.

One guy in our group actually wants the high cybertechnology and medicine. He likes being the person to put people back together.

Hmm. Char with LOG 9, Cybertech 7 (aptitude), medkit 6, surgical drone, and a facility should have the dicepools necessary to install betaware...plus he does have the help from the drone!

I think I'm the only person around who would want to play that character, though. Having done close to such a build, all I did was patch people up after they threw themselves bodily into firefights.

edit: Also, do recall that even the top surgeons in the world require a full surgical team to do the jobs they're famous for doing. I would never rely on a single guy for an eight-hour heart valve replacement surgery.

Yeah he maybe able to draw pretty pictures of cyberware pieces, but he's still not gonna build a piece of deltaware in some cheapo facility alone from parts he has lying around.

sabs, that's not enough. You need a whole team in a real clinic. The Olympian of cyberware design maybe designs a couple pieces of 'ware, working in a team, his whole life. Maybe he does a handful of delta surgeries per year. The Olympian of surgery, working with a team, in perfect conditions, installs deltaware.

Indeed, with unlimited access to materials.

No he would need medical drones, with medical agents.
He'd need a full medical facility.
And if he had one of those cool VR facilities, where the drones and nanites do all the work and the doctor is 'vred' in.

Getting said facility would be a set of quests in and of themselves. Probably as much work as getting someone to give you deltaware

Right. So, to the OP: don't plan ahead too much. Make yourself survivable and functional *now*.

That's what I'm saying: ditch a couple of the (frankly extraneous) cyberlimbs in favor of reflexes. Two extra passes are more useful than virtually anything else.

Thanks for the tip Yerameyahu, I'm glad I have a niche in my group so I have functionality since I'm the only one willing to be the stealth guy, the others being negotiator, magical fire support, hacker, and doctor.

Their loss. Everyone should be the stealth guy, just like everyone should be the gun guy. It's called 'surviving'.

Like I said earlier, I think every shadowrunner should strive to have:
Athletics 2+
Infiltration 2+
influence 2+

and at least 1 gun skill at 4

yeah they should but at the same time shouldnt people be better at said skills than the others

Sure, but at the same time everyone should have a basic subset that are the 'prime' skills a runner uses.

A mage can sling all the mana he wants, but when he's got a splitting headache (or a background count) it's useful to fall back on that .45 sitting on his hip.

They do have those basic skills but im the only one reliable to pass most test in that department hence why I refer to my guy as the stealth guy.

Thank You,
Cyberjocky

Oh, I misunderstood when you said they weren't 'willing'.

OP:
How about going full-on jarhead if Robocop is your end-game? A cyborg rigger will have a lot more obtainable upgrade options in the future than a street sam.

Since the cyber torso doesnt seem to have any realy bonus other than to raise my attributes on limbs to above normal max I'll drop that for rating 1 wired reflexes alphaware. Robocop isnt the idea ... more ghost in the shell.

Except you can't be a jarhead.

.(IMO) Cybered up Dwarf Covert ops/inf is what works too..
High willpower, decent body and strenght
but if u really want to mess w/ GM try Gnome Dwarf metavariant (Runner's Companion)