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yesferatu
Hey guys,

At the risk of tipping my hand if any of my players are reading...
I have a storyline coming up involving ghouls.

The theory is...
1. There are several opposing gangs in Milwaukee.
2. One of my teams basically depopulated one of the darker gangs in town.
3. That gang was using captured ghouls to dispose of bodies and evidence.
4. With that gang dissolved, the ghouls have escaped.
5. The group gets hired to hunt the ghouls down.
6. The ghouls have taken to hiding underground in a series of trapped sewer passages.
7. Interestingly enough, the ghouls just want to be left alone and will pay the group in scavenged technology for passage out of the city.


So...if you were a ghoul...what kind of traps would you use?
- I'd imagine they prefer to capture people alive.
- They're usually blind and poor, so nothing too fancy.
- Is the idea of a ghoul underground railroad just too damn stupid to function?



Fatum
Uh, mines? Rigged grenades? Alive, you say - gas grenades, then.

As a matter of fact, in my interpretation, Chicago ghouls run an underground railroad for the ghouls everywhere in NA. My players have used that to their advantage adventuring in the Bug City, using their ghoul contacts.
Traul
QUOTE (Fatum @ Aug 18 2010, 11:11 PM) *
Uh, mines? Rigged grenades? Alive, you say - gas grenades, then.

Or frag: ghouls like hamburgers too grinbig.gif

Wards. Plenty. That's the only thing that protects them from astral annihilation. If they don't want to damage the meat, they could use nets, pits and traps under the waterline.
Fatum
Oh wait. It's the sewers, right? So there's, like, water on the floor everywhere?
Do I even need to continue.
Simon Kerimov
If I were a ghoul, and I knew some jackasses were hunting me, I would go for an ironic victory.

1) Collect a few gallons of ghoul blood from myself and my buddies.
2) Build shrapnel based traps incorporating the infected blood.
3) Cover all the rusty razor wire with more infected blood.
4) Recover the corpses of your slain friends, blend them up into a ghoul slushy, and make an aerosol spray weapon of ghoul bits.
5) When the players get infected, tell them that it's their turn to go get food since they did such a smash-up job of fracking with the ghoul community.
yesferatu
Nice.

I think the ultimate goal of this run is the metahumanization of ghouls as a people.
There is always the potential of infection.

I'm pretty sure it's going to devolve into a shootem up no matter what I do.

*I was thinking about tranq patch pits, shiny toy gas grenade traps and really really low tech devices.
Fatum
Just make a couple of them ex-spec-ops with Ares Alphas, decent skills, and stick'n'shock. Hey, anyone can be infected.
Then watch and giggle.
Simon Kerimov
QUOTE (yesferatu @ Aug 18 2010, 03:43 PM) *
Nice.

I think the ultimate goal of this run is the metahumanization of ghouls as a people.
There is always the potential of infection.

I'm pretty sure it's going to devolve into a shootem up no matter what I do.

*I was thinking about tranq patch pits, shiny toy gas grenade traps and really really low tech devices.


Punji sticks covered in Infected waste is decidedly low tech, and costs less than the tranq patches. Also, don't forget the utility of having a paranormal critter trainer amongst the ghouls. Dog fighting can be a profitable occupation with Awakened dogs, and can be used to defend against bounty hunters.
Stahlseele
Why would the ghouls prefer them alive?
Ghouls LIKE their meat rotting . .
Fatum
Maybe because not all ghouls are mindless cannibals? Just throwing a thought here.
The Jopp
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Aug 18 2010, 10:52 PM) *
Why would the ghouls prefer them alive?
Ghouls LIKE their meat rotting . .


Well, technically speeaking they just need it raw.

They are meat eaters and canniballistic, I dont think they are carrion eaters.
Simon Kerimov
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Aug 18 2010, 03:52 PM) *
Why would the ghouls prefer them alive?
Ghouls LIKE their meat rotting . .


True. But if I were a thinly veiled metaphor for AIDS, and I was being hunted by some crazy bad-asses, I would prefer to convert them, so they could wallow in the irony of their new lives. Killing and eating them after they rot helps my tummy in the short term, but having a group of previously gung-ho ghoul killers to share the trash-can fire with me and be the targets for my verbal abuse helps me in the long term.
yesferatu
Um...mobility I guess?
It's hard to lift and store that much meat.

I'm balancing on the ghouls as monsters/ghouls as persecuted metahuman minority tightrope.
How would you, an assumed functioning human, deal with having to keep a day job and eat 5% of your weight in necrotized human flesh per week?

The possibilities are hilarious!
The Dragon Girl
deterrent type traps? trip lines, sticky nets.. heh, trip lines that open up water mains when triggered. Nausea inducing motion triggered spray chems, And of course theres always riot foam traps, those are hilarious.

(Also if you like ghouls who aren't mindless cannibals, check out my story link)
Fatum
QUOTE (Simon Kerimov @ Aug 19 2010, 01:59 AM) *
I would prefer to convert them, so they could wallow in the irony of their new lives. Killing and eating them after they rot helps my tummy in the short term, but having a group of previously gung-ho ghoul killers to share the trash-can fire with me and be the targets for my verbal abuse helps me in the long term.


Actually, no, I don't believe it does. Before anything serious happens, you have a chance to negotiate passage. Once the runners are infected, there's a fair chance they shoot you first, themselves second.
Fatum
QUOTE (yesferatu @ Aug 19 2010, 02:03 AM) *
How would you, an assumed functioning human, deal with having to keep a day job and eat 5% of your weight in necrotized human flesh per week?


You can always fall back on govt support and the flesh of volunteers who bequeath it to you after death. RC and RW have some info on that system, I believe.
Traul
QUOTE (Fatum @ Aug 19 2010, 12:05 AM) *
Actually, no, I don't believe it does. Before anything serious happens, you have a chance to negotiate passage. Once the runners are infected, there's a fair chance they shoot you first, themselves second.

Real men shoot the ghouls who infected them.
Real roleplayers shoot themselves after a tragic final monologue.
Loonies put on their Dracula costume, including fangs and cape.
Munchkins get +4 Body, +2 Reaction, +3 Strength, +2 Willpower.
Stahlseele
Worst thing the ghouls could do would be catching them, keeping them alive and keeping eating them alive and making them watch . .
yesferatu
That was kinda my thinking too...and you've included the link I would have used!!!
HE MADE ME COMMENT ON HIS POST!
Daylen
QUOTE (yesferatu @ Aug 18 2010, 11:03 PM) *
Um...mobility I guess?
It's hard to lift and store that much meat.

I'm balancing on the ghouls as monsters/ghouls as persecuted metahuman minority tightrope.
How would you, an assumed functioning human, deal with having to keep a day job and eat 5% of your weight in necrotized human flesh per week?

The possibilities are hilarious!

Work in a morgue or funeral home...
Badmoodguy88
I think like with AIDs some people would want to spread it around to as many people as they can to vindictively share the misery, but the vast majority most people would not want to spread it. Booby traps could get any wandering bum in the sewers so a lot of the outer traps may be nonlethal. After the players have already attacked the ghouls and killed some, if they have time the ghouls would go back an cover some of the traps with blood and such. The virus would not last forever out side of a living host anyway. A lot of the spike traps might have no infection just because they have not be covered in blood lately.
Ascalaphus
The potential of infection traps to scare the players should be amazing however..
Stahlseele
QUOTE (yesferatu @ Aug 19 2010, 12:16 AM) *
That was kinda my thinking too...and you've included the link I would have used!!!
HE MADE ME COMMENT ON HIS POST!

Yes well, i did not get my post count by being lazy ^^
The Jopp
Since we assume a rather (more or less) intelligent Ghoul community we can assume several things.

Anyone with Magic 1 and any kind of implant will be fully blind as their dual nature is removed along with their magic - Unless they have... (mostly second hand)
-Any cybereye
-DNI connected sensor (Commlink+Trodes+Camera Sensor)
-DNI Ultrawideband Radar
-DNI Ultrasound Radar
Whipstitch
If you're just discouraging people there's always fishing line and hooks at roughly head and eye level. Deadfalls are also low tech, but the fact of the matter is that a lot of primitive booby traps are actually more work than explosive ones and people are better at recognizing such things for what they are than animals are. Still, one thing you could have is the ol' bucket on the door trick, except the bucket has been filled with concrete or densiplast instead. I dunno what sort of damage code that would typically result in, since the rule of thumb for deadfalls is that you typically want something 4 or 5 times heavier than the critter you're trying to kill, but it'd at least hurt and the noise of the object hitting the ground could make for a decent warning if said ghouls are too cheap/unsophisticated to bother with other forms of surveillance. Still, tbh, unless you're at war or something and have access to explosives such things are usually more trouble than they're worth. And obviously they can backfire.
Traul
Just wandering: should there not be containment pools in the sewers? Buffers that are usually empty but only fill in case of a flood. They could work using pressure traps that only open with a certain weight above them... The ghouls don't even have to install it biggrin.gif
The Jopp
Combining several cheap items can work too.

Pepper Punch+Infected Bodily Fluids+Water+Water Hose should stack things in the ghouls favor.
Mordinvan
QUOTE (Traul @ Aug 18 2010, 03:13 PM) *
Real men shoot the ghouls who infected them.
Real roleplayers shoot themselves after a tragic final monologue.
Loonies put on their Dracula costume, including fangs and cape.
Munchkins get +4 Body, +2 Reaction, +3 Strength, +2 Willpower.

You win!!!
Acidsaliva
I'm imagineing lots of pits and deadfalls.
The runners are moving through the dark cramped sewers. The water and waste shulshing around their ankles. They come to a T junction. The runner in the lead steps forward to peer cautiously around a corner. And steps into a pit about 4 meters deep that was filled / hidden by the ankle deep sewer water. Now the character is in over his head, drowning in sewer water, swollowing spirits-know-what. Unable to see because of the cloudy water/sludge he's drowning/buried in, trying to climb crumbling brickwork with his gun and gear wieghing him down. Extra penalities for street sam - all the extra weight of his cyberware. How many runners have swiming as a skill ? Disease vectors and infection rates on cuts go sky high.
Then if you're really nasty the ghouls mount an ambush. Coming from the passages in the T junction and from behind. Busting through weakened brickwork in the walls / ceiling to attack these fools who have invaded their turf.

The ghouls break off their ambush after taking a few wounds. The ghouls all run off down a particular pasage way. Hopefully the runners charge blindly after them (would it be too much to wish for that the runners leave their wounded behind ? rotfl.gif ). The passage way starts to get cramped and their are lots of inconviently placed planks of wood/sheets of metal. The runners could pick their way around them but it would slow them down and the planks of wood/sheets of metal are knocked over easily with a good shove. Hopefully the runners smash the planks of wood/sheets of metal out of the way and hurry along. As they clear the last of the obstackles they see a remaining ghoul at the end of the tunnel yank hard on a rope. The rope pulls the remaining supports of the tunnel away (the rest of the supports being those inconviently placed horiztonal and vertical planks of wood/sheets of metal that the runners knocked away). The tunnel collapses burying a few runners and wounding/disorienting the rest. Before the cloud of dust and sand settles, the ghouls attack again. The runners limbs/weapons/torches are too damaged/buried in the avalache to be any use. (An agility + dodge test to avoid ?). Its also possible that the cave in has seperated the runner team into two groups that have to fight the attacking ghouls cornered with their backs against a wall of avalache debris.

The ghouls will eat well tonight. grinbig.gif

Wadda ya think? Too evil ? devil.gif
Saint Sithney
Some people are expecting a bit much from a bunch of skin-chompers that a viscous gang kept for pigs. They were kept in pits or cages with nothing to do but chomp on corpses, be taunted by psychopaths, and try and keep each other sane.

I reconnoiter that there wouldn't be many mental survivors from a situation like that.
So, you've got a core group of ghouls who are quite strong and determined and a whole other thing in the form of gibbering crazies who've become accustomed to gnawing on bones and launching themselves on everything that smells like food.

So, doing it nicy-nice, I'd start with an outer perimeter of noise traps backed up with menacing growls and shapes running through the tunnels. Moving further in, basic barb wire ambushes and shouted warnings. Unheeded, they lead to hit and run chases. The chase leads to a blocked off passage and swarms of feral ghouls charge out at close range as tear-gas floods the surrounding area.

Just don't forget the high background count and the satchel charge + chunky salsa effect for the "Spirits first" type mages.
Hmmm.. you could even go all dungeon crawl and have a nearby toxic Mage get into the action...
Simon Kerimov
QUOTE (The Jopp @ Aug 18 2010, 04:55 PM) *
Since we assume a rather (more or less) intelligent Ghoul community we can assume several things.

Anyone with Magic 1 and any kind of implant will be fully blind as their dual nature is removed along with their magic - Unless they have... (mostly second hand)
-Any cybereye
-DNI connected sensor (Commlink+Trodes+Camera Sensor)
-DNI Ultrawideband Radar
-DNI Ultrasound Radar


They would have a Magic of 0 if they took implants after being Infected, and without increasing their Magic Rating, which they treat like any other stat.

Off-topic question, but can you use a symbiont instead of a cybereye? Or maybe a pile of soft nanites?

QUOTE
$imon$ez:
Runners Companion p77
"Magic and essence

Starting Infected characters start with Essence 5 and Magic 1 during character generation. The Infected may increase their Magic attribute with BP or Karma as any other attribute to a maximum of 5 (+ initiate grade). Magic is used for any tests involving the Infected’s innate powers. If an Infected character’s Magic attribute is reduced to 0 (temporarily or permanently), it loses the use of all its powers except Natural Weapon and Enhanced Senses, if any.

The Infected are Awakened, but not necessarily magicians. Dual Natured Infected may learn Assensing and Astral Combat, but otherwise they cannot learn or use Magic Skills, astrally project, initiate, or bond foci unless they take an appropriate quality granting magical abilities. Dzoo-noo-qua, by virtue of their Magical Guard power, may learn Counterspelling.

During the course of a game or campaign, the Essence at- tribute of Infected characters with the Essence Drain power and Essence Loss weakness will fluctuate; because such characters are so far removed from the natural order, special rules apply.

For Infected characters with Essence Loss, Magic loss does not occur every time they lose or spend a point of Essence, and their maximum Magic attribute is equal to their current Essence + Initiate grade. If their maximum Magic attribute is lower than their current Magic attribute, their current Magic rating is adjusted down to the reduced maximum. These points are lost and must be repurchased with Karma. Infected characters can temporarily exceed their current Magic maximum by spending Essence points (see Essence Drain, p. 288, SR4). Infected characters with Essence Drain can only maintain siphoned Essence equal to twice its natural maximum (from 6 to 12). Any Essence Drained above that point is simply lost.

If any condition other than Essence Loss or another character or spirit using the Essence Drain power were to cause the Infected character to lose Essence—such as receiving a cyberware implant, or a burnout addiction—the cost is subtracted from their maximum Essence instead.

No Infected character can take Magic Resistance, and if a character with Magic Resistance becomes one of the Infected, they lose that quality.
An Infected’s aura always reveals its Infected nature, though this may be masked by Metamagic as normal."
$imoff:

--$imon$ez is an opensource [Knowsoft]::code provided by TrnZhX--


And if they have access to a clone vat, make sure they are making fox-holes to hide in that are blanketed in something living, like biofiber or skin, to be able to hide from the Assensing spirits/
Jekolmy
QUOTE (The Dragon Girl @ Aug 18 2010, 04:04 PM) *
deterrent type traps? trip lines, sticky nets.. heh, trip lines that open up water mains when triggered. Nausea inducing motion triggered spray chems, And of course theres always riot foam traps, those are hilarious.

(Also if you like ghouls who aren't mindless cannibals, check out my story link)


Somehow I don't think the designers were so crazy as to let the water lines touch the sewers period. I think even in the messed up distopia of shadowrun people would actually do something about that.

I've seen sewer pipe go into the ground for a subdivision a few years ago and I could probably move through it by crawling, but are the sanitary sewers big enough to walk around in? I'm thinking that the sewer size the thread is talking about is similar to the ones that you see in the first Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie, correct? Also I am curious if anyone knows does Seattle have a separate storm/sanitary sewer system?
Simon Kerimov
QUOTE (Jekolmy @ Aug 18 2010, 08:56 PM) *
Somehow I don't think the designers were so crazy as to let the water lines touch the sewers period. I think even in the messed up distopia of shadowrun people would actually do something about that.

I've seen sewer pipe go into the ground for a subdivision a few years ago and I could probably move through it by crawling, but are the sanitary sewers big enough to walk around in? I'm thinking that the sewer size the thread is talking about is similar to the ones that you see in the first Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie, correct? Also I am curious if anyone knows does Seattle have a separate storm/sanitary sewer system?


Global warming says yes. And probably flood water systems, and lahar warnings for nearby volcanoes.
Lok1 :)
QUOTE (Traul @ Aug 18 2010, 10:13 PM) *
Real men shoot the ghouls who infected them.
Real roleplayers shoot themselves after a tragic final monologue.
Loonies put on their Dracula costume, including fangs and cape.
Munchkins get +4 Body, +2 Reaction, +3 Strength, +2 Willpower.

Smart (but evil) characters get a vampire to turn them before the transformation is compleat, if I'm going to change into something that means I'll have to live off others to survive, I might as well keep my mind, and sight, and live forever to boot.
(Given the most fact that many shadowrunners kill people anyway)
Lok1 :)
Personaly, if I had to go ghoul hunting, I'd raid the nearest Humanis Policlub meeting, drug and round up the bastards and send them waiding through the water ahead, with sensors set up on the furthest and my sniper set on the furthest.
Of course, this assum's I'm playing someone who would get a kick about seeing a bunch of meta-haters pumped full of bliss geting ripped apart by ghouls. But its shadowrun, so runners like that are fairly commen.
Mäx
QUOTE (yesferatu @ Aug 18 2010, 11:04 PM) *
So...if you were a ghoul...what kind of traps would you use?
- I'd imagine they prefer to capture people alive.
- They're usually blind and poor, so nothing too fancy.
- Is the idea of a ghoul underground railroad just too damn stupid to function?

Just put up a sing saying ghouls inside at the enterance.'
No one with a two braincells to rub together will go anywhere near that place, the risk of infection is just too fraking high.
biggrin.gif
Mooncrow
QUOTE (Mäx @ Aug 19 2010, 03:23 AM) *
Just put up a sing saying ghouls inside at the enterance.'
No one with a two braincells to rub together will go anywhere near that place, the risk of infection is just too fraking high.
biggrin.gif


You would be lucky if the disease didn't leap off the sign and infect you if you were close enough to read it nyahnyah.gif
Mayhem_2006
Thermal smoke grenades.


Ghouls hunt by sound and smell, IIRC, so thermal smoke won't hinder them at all, but not every runner has Radar senses or Blindfighting abilities.

Drop some smoke on them, then attack using spears dipped in ghoul blood.

However, there are plenty of other things for both Ghouls and Runners to worry about in a sewer:


Explosion

Explosive gas in sewers is most likely to be Methane (swamp gas), which is given off by decaying organic matter. Unless built on a sharp slope, or very well ventilated, almost any porly maintained sewer may have a potential Methane build-up.

Methane is lighter than air, so will be found in pockets at high points in a sewer.

Methane is odourless, but the visible presence or the odour of rotting organic material may provide a clue.

Poison gas

The toxic gas most endemic to sewers is Hydrogen Sulphide, is produced by the decomposition of excrement. It is easily recognisable at low concentrations by the smell of rotten eggs. Low to moderate concentrations will result in nausea, eye irritation and breathing difficulties. However, at higher concentrations, it paralysis the sense of smell, so anyone not equipped with alternative means of gas detection will falsely assume the gas has gone away. Very high concentrations can kill almost instantly by complete arrest of respiration.

It is heavier than air, and tends to settle over the surface of sewage. Disturbing the sewage may release trapped bubbles of gas, and rapidly increase the concentration of the gas to dangerous levels.


Oxygen Deficiency.

In a sewer the most probable cause of lack of oxygen is due to rotting organic material, and the practice of putting lime or limestone chippings into sewers as a measure to reduce odours. Each of these processes uses up valuable oxygen.

In a sealed area with a notable amount of metalwork (especially iron) the gradual oxidisation of the metalwork can also consume oxygen.

What many people do not realise is that your body cannot detect when it is low on oxygen. The "I need to breath" reflex is caused by the body detecting a build up of Carbon dioxide in the bloodstream, not by it recognising a lack of oxygen. If the oxygen has been replaced with a gas that *isn't* CO2, you can suffocate without realising it - until you pitch over face down in the sewage.

Carbon Monoxide

A heavier than air gas, so in an urban area with lots of petrol/diesel engines, its will flow downhill into the sewers, forming pockets at low points. CO bonds with the oxygen carrying red blood cells more efficiently than oxygen, meaning that even if there is oxygen present, you can suffocate in the presence of CO - again, without realising it. Even if you get out before unconciousness, the CO bonded to your hemoglobin will hinder your ability to take up oxygen, leaving you feeling drowsy and headachy - but not feeling short of breath as again, there is no Carbon Dioxide build up in the blood for your body to notice.

Ingress or presence of liquids

In a sewer that collects storm water from roads and roofs as well as collecting foul sewage, a heavy rainfall will result in rapid ingress of water into the sewer. If the rainfall is primarily at the head of the sewer, the arrival of this water into the lower end of the sewer is likely to be quite sudden. This is a significant hazard.

It may also be possible in a poorly designed or constructed sewer to have areas of trapped water.

Disease

Sewers obviously present a significant disease hazard. Some diseases are only transmitted through ingestion of infected material, but anybody foolish enough to eat or drink – or even wipe their face after being in contact with infected material runs the risk of contracting these diseases. Total immersion in sewage will almost certainly result in contamination.

Other diseases carried in waste material can be contracted via entry though any break in the skin. These are not limited to infection of the wounds.

Vermin

Rats may be found in significant numbers in sewers. Rats have no qualms about living in complete darkness, and are excellent swimmers and climbers. They also carry diseases. One rat isn't a threat. A swarm definitely is, unless you are wearing body armour that has no gaps at all.

****

In short, I wouldn't venture into a large sewer for an extended jaunt without a fully sealed suit with independent air supply and a slew of gas detectors, plus weapons and equipment that won't detonate methane pockets. And thats *before* knowing its a ghoul haunt... basically, this is the perfect time to send in the drones...
Mäx
QUOTE (Mooncrow @ Aug 19 2010, 09:38 AM) *
You would be lucky if the disease didn't leap off the sign and infect you if you were close enough to read it nyahnyah.gif

There's a reason it 10mx5m neon sign grinbig.gif
Simon Kerimov
QUOTE (Mayhem_2006 @ Aug 19 2010, 02:40 AM) *
Thermal smoke grenades.


Ghouls hunt by sound and smell, IIRC, so thermal smoke won't hinder them at all, but not every runner has Radar senses or Blindfighting abilities.

Drop some smoke on them, then attack using spears dipped in ghoul blood.

However, there are plenty of other things for both Ghouls and Runners to worry about in a sewer:


Explosion

Explosive gas in sewers is most likely to be Methane (swamp gas), which is given off by decaying organic matter. Unless built on a sharp slope, or very well ventilated, almost any porly maintained sewer may have a potential Methane build-up.

Methane is lighter than air, so will be found in pockets at high points in a sewer.

Methane is odourless, but the visible presence or the odour of rotting organic material may provide a clue.

Poison gas

The toxic gas most endemic to sewers is Hydrogen Sulphide, is produced by the decomposition of excrement. It is easily recognisable at low concentrations by the smell of rotten eggs. Low to moderate concentrations will result in nausea, eye irritation and breathing difficulties. However, at higher concentrations, it paralysis the sense of smell, so anyone not equipped with alternative means of gas detection will falsely assume the gas has gone away. Very high concentrations can kill almost instantly by complete arrest of respiration.

It is heavier than air, and tends to settle over the surface of sewage. Disturbing the sewage may release trapped bubbles of gas, and rapidly increase the concentration of the gas to dangerous levels.


Oxygen Deficiency.

In a sewer the most probable cause of lack of oxygen is due to rotting organic material, and the practice of putting lime or limestone chippings into sewers as a measure to reduce odours. Each of these processes uses up valuable oxygen.

In a sealed area with a notable amount of metalwork (especially iron) the gradual oxidisation of the metalwork can also consume oxygen.

What many people do not realise is that your body cannot detect when it is low on oxygen. The "I need to breath" reflex is caused by the body detecting a build up of Carbon dioxide in the bloodstream, not by it recognising a lack of oxygen. If the oxygen has been replaced with a gas that *isn't* CO2, you can suffocate without realising it - until you pitch over face down in the sewage.

Carbon Monoxide

A heavier than air gas, so in an urban area with lots of petrol/diesel engines, its will flow downhill into the sewers, forming pockets at low points. CO bonds with the oxygen carrying red blood cells more efficiently than oxygen, meaning that even if there is oxygen present, you can suffocate in the presence of CO - again, without realising it. Even if you get out before unconciousness, the CO bonded to your hemoglobin will hinder your ability to take up oxygen, leaving you feeling drowsy and headachy - but not feeling short of breath as again, there is no Carbon Dioxide build up in the blood for your body to notice.

Ingress or presence of liquids

In a sewer that collects storm water from roads and roofs as well as collecting foul sewage, a heavy rainfall will result in rapid ingress of water into the sewer. If the rainfall is primarily at the head of the sewer, the arrival of this water into the lower end of the sewer is likely to be quite sudden. This is a significant hazard.

It may also be possible in a poorly designed or constructed sewer to have areas of trapped water.

Disease

Sewers obviously present a significant disease hazard. Some diseases are only transmitted through ingestion of infected material, but anybody foolish enough to eat or drink – or even wipe their face after being in contact with infected material runs the risk of contracting these diseases. Total immersion in sewage will almost certainly result in contamination.

Other diseases carried in waste material can be contracted via entry though any break in the skin. These are not limited to infection of the wounds.

Vermin

Rats may be found in significant numbers in sewers. Rats have no qualms about living in complete darkness, and are excellent swimmers and climbers. They also carry diseases. One rat isn't a threat. A swarm definitely is, unless you are wearing body armour that has no gaps at all.

****

In short, I wouldn't venture into a large sewer for an extended jaunt without a fully sealed suit with independent air supply and a slew of gas detectors, plus weapons and equipment that won't detonate methane pockets. And thats *before* knowing its a ghoul haunt....


Sweet.
Mayhem_2006
QUOTE (Simon Kerimov @ Aug 19 2010, 08:54 AM) *
Sweet.


*Now* Imagine that either due to being a sewer worker in a prior life (which is not unreasonable), or just due to experience, the ghouls are aware of all these hazards and are able to use them against the PCs...

Lead the Runner's into a methane pocket then get them to shoot at you. (Or even better, at a decoy).

Slap on a respirator and lead them into a Hydrogen Sulphide or Carbon Monoxide pocket.

Herd a swarm of rats towards them.

Scatter 2 inch caltrops into 3 inches of scummy water... - and THEN herd the rats towards them...

Smart ghouls could easily create deliberate Carbon Monoxide pockets by burning charcoal or running a small internal combustion engine on idle.
yesferatu
Now comes the hard part....

How can I set up a series of low-tech non-lethal traps AND still provide for a ghoul escort side-story?
It's easy enough to kill off the runners and/or start an underground ghoul shooting gallery.
It's a little harder to demonstrate that the ghouls are just defending themselves and actually need the runners' help.

Simon Kerimov
QUOTE (Mayhem_2006 @ Aug 19 2010, 04:04 AM) *
*Now* Imagine that either due to being a sewer worker in a prior life (which is not unreasonable), or just due to experience, the ghouls are aware of all these hazards and are able to use them against the PCs...

Lead the Runner's into a methane pocket then get them to shoot at you. (Or even better, at a decoy).

Slap on a respirator and lead them into a Hydrogen Sulphide or Carbon Monoxide pocket.

Herd a swarm of rats towards them.

Scatter 2 inch caltrops into 3 inches of scummy water... - and THEN herd the rats towards them...

Smart ghouls could easily create deliberate Carbon Monoxide pockets by burning charcoal or running a small internal combustion engine on idle.


A ghoul that has made good friends with a devil rat can get it to use normal rats to set off many of the traps. Better if it knows a demon rat that controls devil rats that control normal rats. Freaking team combo there.
sabs
I think I've seen too many Resident Evil movies..
Personally, Ghouls are not people. They're Ghouls. The only solid solution is containment and extermination.
Simon Kerimov
QUOTE (yesferatu @ Aug 19 2010, 10:43 AM) *
Now comes the hard part....

How can I set up a series of low-tech non-lethal traps AND still provide for a ghoul escort side-story?
It's easy enough to kill off the runners and/or start an underground ghoul shooting gallery.
It's a little harder to demonstrate that the ghouls are just defending themselves and actually need the runners' help.


Communication is key. The ghouls need to have a way to talk at or talk to the runners to convince them.
yesferatu
"Personally, Ghouls are not people. They're Ghouls. The only solid solution is containment and extermination."
Oh, I totally understand that, but I'm trying to make ghouls a little more interesting.

If they're just mindless zombie hordes, that's good for the occasional sweep and clear.
If it's an otherwise normal family that was infected and enslaved to set an example, that's fodder for all kinds of interesting storylines.

There are "infected" templates in the Runner's Companion, so ghouls are not simply the walking dead.
They are metahumans, with a chronic disease, who still have to interact with the 6th world.
They might very well be horrified with the reality of their situation, but it's either suck it up or kill yourself.

I'd like my players to have a "there but for the grace of god go I" realization.
Ears
How about a group of 'normal', well non-infected, people coming to the runners and asking them not to kill the ghouls. "Cause you know, them's the best thing that happened to this neighbourhood since like forever." Nobody in their right mind wants to mess with ghouls. So, not only is the old gang gone, nobody's come to take its place. And while the people living there aren't too happy that the ghouls are loose, they're ok with them hiding around as long as they don't do anything except scare away wannabe gangers.

As a player, I'd still opt for filling the tunnels with spirits and drones and blasting all the ghouls to kingdom come, but maybe your guys are different and fall for the ghouls-are-peoplezez-too thing. wink.gif
X-Kalibur
I like the idea of explosives still just because of one small reason... the Chunky Salsa Effect. There's a lot of walls and low ceilings for explosions to reflect off of.
Ascalaphus
QUOTE (yesferatu @ Aug 18 2010, 11:04 PM) *
7. Interestingly enough, the ghouls just want to be left alone and will pay the group in scavenged technology for passage out of the city.


So, the message the traps should send, is "leave us alone", rather than "we're trying to do the nastiest things possible to you because we're eeevil"

- Clear signs telling people not to enter the area, that it is dangerous and trapped
- A signal relay point attached to a miles-long comms cable so that they can be contacted. The cable to make sure their wireless signal isn't easily traced back to their central lair
- "traps" that focus on warning the ghouls intruders are coming
- No infection traps; those tend to provoke "cleanse with fire" responses
- A layered system; in the outer layer, some traps to demonstrate they mean it, but basically give people the chance to back off and leave. The inner layer should be extremely decisive, so that anyone who insists in trying to get them is certainly stopped. Using lethal force if necessary; food isn't an issue, protecting the central lair is the main goal now.
- There is a conflict of interest between setting traps to "gather" fresh meat, and keeping people away. So, don't use your lair defenses to gather food, use them only to scare people away. That way you're not quite as much of a target for extermination.
yesferatu
That's actually perfect, Ascalaphus, thanks,
I really like the idea of a layered defense.
Hell, the surface layer traps could just be obvious low-tech alarms.
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