And how many people can a single dose affect? This always bothered me. I mean, it's also one dose per *capsule*, after all.

A breathtaker grenade will put a cloud of gas out to 20 meters, as per SR4a. I don't think that amount of gas is even compressable into a capsule round.

Also, "Dose" is a hugely variable term. A dose of LSD is less than a drop, a dose of beer is a glass and a dose of vodka is a shot. The mechanics here aren't great, and require a little handwavium.

Sure, but I'm not saying use an LSD-sized dose with beer. I'm saying that, indeed, the mechanics aren't great, and it seems like there's some room for abuse. As evidenced above, runners (or players, anyway) feel free to mix and match drugs and chemicals well outside of their intended application. A splash grenade with Slab (or other 'single dose' doses) shouldn't reasonably give a full dose to multiple people; Breathtaker probably *should*, per your reasoning earlier. Bleh.

Screwy rules will be screwy rules :/
Thank god for good GMs.

I still like shooting vehicles with two capsule rounds of P4MO. They aren't immune to toxins, by the way.

EDIT:


Yes, but "chop off the arm" because it hurts does not equal Physical damage. It sounds more like Stun damage with Nausea and Disorientation.

Yes they are. You stop that. Nevermind the fact the P4MO is administered in 5-liter treatments, not capsule rounds.

hehe.

First shot they get +1 Agi and the ability to hold their breath for 2x as long (which is useless because they don't have Agi or need to hold their breath..), second shot is a 15P Unresisted embolism.

I like the mental image.

And actually, thinking about it, is there a rule anywhere (other than Rule 0) that states vehicles don't need to breathe? Otherwise technically can't you have a car drown?

And an embolism is ignored because they don't have blood.

In that a car doesn't work underwater, yes, they can drown.

I wasn't talking about the people in the car drowning, but the car itself. Just looking at another oddity of the rules system.

Also, it's not a capsule, but with many people not liking the idea of putting 1 dose of P4MO into a capsule round, how about filling the Lone Star FlashFlood Water Cannon with it and DMSO? Talk about crowd control.

Isn't drowning stun damage? In which case the car ignores it, because vehicles don't suffer stun damage.

Ahh, thank you.

I wasn't talking about the passengers. Like I said: if the car's not configured for underwater, it drowns. You try starting a car under a lake.

It's not clear that DMSO would do it; P4MO is a blood treatment, so muscle penetration isn't enough. You'd have to ensure that 10 *liters* of the stuff got all the way into their bloodstream (at which point their body would explode from having suddenly 10 extra liters of fluid).

Just so that everyones on the same page.

I know. My disagreement is that with a poison that has no known deaths reported that only causes intense pain it should cause Stun damage with Nausea and Disorientation instead of flat Physical damage.

strictly speaking, toxins don't even have to cause any damage. they can just have an effect, like incapacitating pain. seems like it would be more appropriate for a toxin that, as you said, is not known to have caused any deaths whatsoever.

Tough it has killed other animals I'd still give it stun. It's likely capable of killing in large doses on humans.

Funny, poking around the internet, one finds a number of chemical supply companies selling various acids in dry powdered form.

Boric acid, Lactic acid, Citric acid, Uric acid, etc, just in my few minutes of looking.

It appears, however, that most of them are created not by simple evaporation, but by crystallization, and then grinding the acid crystals into powder.

I have no idea about the physics about them, but they're out there.



-karma

Carefully put a clump of box jellyfish into a capsule round, perhaps in an oxygenated nutrient gel so they can survive at least a few days.

Fire at target. It doesn't matter if the jellyfish survive. If the capsule round splashes even a tiny bit of exposed skin, it's searing agonizing pain time.






-karma

Acids have to be dissolved in water (and it HAS to be water or primarily water substance) to gain their acidic properties. In the powdered form, they do jack shit. However, it might not take much water depending on how soluble they are.

Yes, which is why folks brought up using some sort of wetting system.

And I later commented on the possibility of using powdered bases instead.




-karma

But you CAN store acids as a powder, with a water in a separate layer of the capsule round.

Man, why didn't you guys read the thread before jumping in with your chemistry knowledge on us?