Actually if you look under the awakened chapter in Magic

Loosing 1 point of essence Reduces both your Current and maximum magic rating ... I dont have a page # ATM as my book is in the car and my wife has it

Just because its Chargen doesnt mean you dont follow all the normal rules as well

get your realism out of my game!
But yeah
Still FFBA with maybe the armored dress suits would be nice too
or the steam punk overcoat.. lots of options fashion wise.

I am suddenly reminded of that Olympic Games incident where a bobsledder had a wardrobe malfunction, because her suit was SO tightly fitted that when she flexed her thighs shoving the bobsled out of the starting gate, it split an unfortunate seam.




-k

Y'know, I kinda figured the generic clothing options were open to interpretation on their exact appearance. Leather jacket, vest(an option anyhow), and armor clothing plus the regular cheap stuff would give some stylistic effects. Besides, I can always do a run or two and blow the cash on better clothing; char-history wise the guy is a tad short of cash trying to keep himself outfitted properly and still help his 'clients',an odd mix of somewhat noble and capitalistic, I'm looking forward to seeing how or if said morals get brought down.

Though I would propose that you could make the Headware Comlink(s) somewhat modular if you really wanted to do so, it would take the largest benefit (Inaccessability) and remove it... think Scorpius in Farscape with the Module Thingy in his head...

But honestly, since Most headware is an outpatient procedure in Shadowrun, updating the Internal Comlink should not really be all that difficult... though it WOULD still require surgery, of course...

That is how i handled it too. Headware which is in need of "heavy maintenance" (not nano-repairable) is mostly a bit clunky too. I ruled that all modules replace part of your skull. You just need to cut and flap your skin open: Tadaaa... chips and crap to change *g*. Made it, i think, 2 stun surgery damage or something (according to the repair cyber rule in augmentation).

Aye with nanotech being used in implantation and surgary now adays it's wouldn't be too bad either. Also nanotech the cancer cure? Just get it to nom the cancerous cells no more deadly than other nanotech uses.

The one problem with partial skull replacements is that it introduces a new weak spot. And it's hard to have true modular heads like you might see in GitS. The brain has cerebrospinal fluid around it as well. A Scorpius like modular core is kinda funny, but then you think what kind of brain functions are housed in the part of the human brain that is being taken up by this core. Plus we're not talking about a datajack, but in fact a full computer. Once you get around the fact that the braincase just doesn't have a whole lot of extra room, you're still left with a very complex system that would likely have to be spaced out around the skull. It would almost have to be major invasive surgery with a significant recovery time to make any changes that were just like simple chip swaps or something that might be accessible through a "flap".

I think trivializing cybernetics takes something away from them. I definitely wouldn't want to have outpatient brain surgery, lol. One slight screw-up near your temporal lobe and all of a sudden you can't hear, or lose chunks of your long term memory, haha.

My suggestions:

Consider dropping a point of Logic and adding a point to Intuition. Having high Intuition (situational awareness, instincts, ability to read people and situations) is much more important for a private eye or police officer than high Logic ("book-learning," ability to understand complex concepts, knowing how magic and machines work in technical detail), and coincidentally, more of the skills and abilities you have are linked to Intuition.

You have 5 social skills, which makes Kinesics a really good buy. You should have it at level 3 if at all possible. Consider replacing Enhanced Perception 2 with another point in Kinesics, dropping Intimidate to 4, and raising Perception to 6. This evens out in points, and trades -1 perception for +1 to the whole influence group. It also synergizes well with Commanding Voice.

Heed the suggestions about armored pajamas. They are a good idea.

Consider losing 1 point of Strength for 1 point of something else, like Body. You're going to be using Shock Gloves a lot, and those just replace the Str/2 from punching. Also, at 5 body, you get an extra physical box over 4, which will help you with your not dying concerns.

Except that you are missing a key component here, Brain Surgery (some of it anyways) IS outpatient in the 2070's...

Datajack,
Internal Comlink,
Data Filters,
Data Lock,
All Cyber Eye Modules,
All Cyber Ear Modules,
Math SPU,
Olfactory Boost,
Orientation System,
Simsense Booster,
Taste Booster (Odd I know, but there you go),
and Possibly several others I may have missed, are all things that you can probably get done on a lunch hour...

None of the above 'ware exceeds .2 Essence Cost, which is considered Superficial Surgery Damage (3s Damage, yes, that is right... STUN damage)... you walk out in an hour or two none the worse for wear...

If you take it to Minor Surgery, you can add the Attention Co-Processor, Control Rig and the Simsense Accelerator for a whopping 3p Damage...

The only 'ware I would consider outside of the realm of an afternoon is the Encephalon...

The Intervals for all of these Surgeries, For Basic Grade Cyberware is: Medicine (Implant Surgery) + Logic (4, 1 Hour)... So, anyone with competent assistants, a decent pool and a minimum of a Shop can complete the above Brain Surgery and move to the next patient in the requisite Hour... Easy Peasy...

Brain Surgery in 2070's has come a long way from the archaic methods we use today... just read the books and you can see that...

Hmm. Ok, the intution\logic thing should work out(though it seems Ill end up puzzled by a few things IC, meh). I have commanding voice, but Im not able to find what stats it actually uses. Picked up the armored PJ's along with everything else. I wish I could afford enough magic to pick up traceless walk, would make infiltration all the more simple. *shrug*

Actually, you're wrong on both counts.
Full defense against ranged is
Full dodge: Reaction + Dodge Skill
or
Gymnastic Dodge: Reaction + Gymnastics Skill

Full defense against melee is
Full Dodge: Reaction + Dodge Skill + Dodge Skill
Full Dodge: Reaction + Dodge Skill + Melee Skill
Full Parry: Reaction + Melee Skill + Melee Skill
or, again,
Gymnastic Dodge: Reaction + Gymnastics Skill

Now, why would you want to pick Gymnastics over regular Dodge for ranged?

Well, first of all, as it isn't a combat skill, it costs half as much in power points for an adept to take with Improved Ability, and there is almost twice as much ware which can increase your gymnastics skill.

Both have multiple utility as Dodge can be used with vehicles, but Gymnastics can be used for balance checks, jumping, and reducing damage after a fall. If you plan to drive vehicles, then dodge is a better choice, but if you're going to be chasing dudes across rooftops or bailing out of a speeding car or other such physical business, then Gymnastics is the better buy.

Oh! almost forgot the final time it's better to use Dodge. If you're being attacked by melee and ranged weapons at the same time. It's a bad shake that, and you're probably boned (or not) anyway, but using Gymnastics dodge won't cost you too much...

Except that Any GM worth his salt will probably screw you out of your gymnastics dodge /alot/ depending on circumstances.

Gymnastics dodge is all cute and all, but it's a gimmick and one that needs GM buy in.

A GM worth his or her salt does not screw players over in an arbitrary fashion.



Uhh... and why would that be?

It's just a rule like "Dodge dodge". The same rule, in fact.

Bye
Thanee

Because you're doing cartwheels and flips and tumbles to get out of the way of bullets and knives and axes?
Dodge is "bob and weave'

I'm not missing anything, lol.

You're missing where I said that I think trivializing cyberware takes away from it. I get that the mechanics say that due to the low Essence cost it counts as trivial surgeries. But I'm saying that cutting someone's skull open is hardly superficial, lol. No matter what the mechanics say, it's retarded if it isn't considered invasive. They're opening your skull and hardwiring something to your brain, and then sealing your skill back up with a new hole in it. Just because we find another place where the guys at FanPro screwed the pooch on writing the rules doesn't make the rule make sense. Even FASA covered this in Man & Machine talking about how processes that were neural related suffered twice as much surgery damage.


BTW, NDWaD starts off with the protagonist waking up after having a datajack installed, and it's definitely not out patient. It's not exactly something you would want to have done under local anesthetic, haha. So while it might be "out patient" in the terms that you don't have to be hospitalized and the street doc isn't gonna just let you crash on his couch for a couple days, you're still gonna feel like somebody punched you in the nugget for a while.

*side-stepping the cyberware discussion since rules-wise its out of his league* Certainly appreciating the assists here, and I think Ive got everything down. More of an open debate question now, is it really neccesary to have combat skills? Aside from shooting a gun, I mean. Would one person being really shoddy at combat be much of a hindrance?

Depends on the game, of course. The 'typical' run has you at least getting shot *at*, if not shooting back. Certainly, there's plenty of dramatic precedent for noncombat members of criminal teams (the techie, the face, the safecracker, whatever). It *is* a tabletop RPG, though: most people get bored if they don't get to kill enemies.

Id still have Pistol(Revolver) and Dodge(ranged combat) for a reason Especially if someone manages to see through the lie about the troll, elf and human being members of a small up and coming Military-Punk band, and they really do have clearance to enter with all that fake plastic gear..

Haha. Yes, you can have a character with Pistol and Dodge.

Too bad there's no way of applying social modifiers to combat. Id just TALK the other guy to death, or make him my friend and shoot the other guys..

Commanding Voice.

It has so much potential.

Oh? Ive considered it but Im not really sure its worth using much. There' the test itself(Leadership + Cha vs Will and Leadership; in my case thats only 8 dice to oppose whatever they've got), the penalty for trying it again with the same guy, plus if I fail resisting the drain Im stunned, or worse(granted, same as a mage, but generally a fireball cooks the other guy, not just makes him stand in place confused for a round)

Er, I wasn't aware the the Commanding Voice adept power had a drain effect...
Also it's a standard opposed leadership (social skill) test so I'd imagine it stacks with bonuses to leadership, and bonuses to general social tests like the Kinesics power or the Glamour metagenic quality.

No drain at all IDK where you are getting that idea. Adept powers are drain-less unless noted.

And yet there are fluff references that you can go TO THE MALL on your luch hour to have this cyber surgery performed... 4th edition is close to 10 years past the capabilities of "Man and Machine" after all... it has not been trivialized, in my opinion, just advanced beyond what you apparently find comfortable. And NDWaD is set in 2050, which makes it even older than "Man and Machine." I mean really, Augmentation and medical technology have advanced FAR beyond what was available in 2050...

Personally, I like the way that Augmentations have advanced since the game began...

Except that the idea of nanite and laser surgery dates back to Shadowtech, which is 1e and 2052. Not to mention various arthroscopic technologies that exist today, etc. The human skull and brain, however are still in their latest versions. A datajack is still a hole in your head and wired up to your cortex. And the chips and microboards for the headware deck or implanted commlink still have to get in there somehow. The nanites aren't just fabricating them inside your head. They can't do that, lol. Especially on your lunch hour.

Like I've told other people, if you want to run fast and loose with common sense, be my guest. If your level of knowledge on human physiology tells you that lunchtime brain surgery is cool because the SR4 rules tell you that anything with .2 Essence or less is a superficial procedure, go ahead. It's your game.

I'm just here to offer the voice of reason to those looking for a little more plausibility. Not sure why you seem to take these sorts of things so personally, but this is the second thread where you've attempted to argue a non-point to death.

The forum realized my point was so solid it posted it twice.

The problem is, your idea of "common sense"? Even if it's reasonable?

The game doesn't agree with it. The game has datajacks being installed in malls, as stated, like they were an ear piercing.

You have an opinion, fine, but really, people are NOT "wrong" to follow what the game has established as canon.




-k

I never said he was wrong so you can leave your CapsLock out of your future posts. I said I didn't think it was very believable. Some of you seem to not pick this up. I'm not talking about my idea being RAW. I'm saying the RAW doesn't make sense and even contradicts established 4e canon, which in turn contradicts itself.

Final thing: a low logic score(2 in this case); actively mean anything detrimental or just that said character isnt much on structured(or 'book') learning?

Um, wow.

I'm not attacking you. Merely putting emphasis on a point. One word. I could have used bold or italics instead, I suppose, text does not convey very well a mildly emphasized word.

I can understand if I was capitalizing a whole sentence, but yeesh.

We get it. You think the casual surgery idea is stupid. People were just pointing out that it is, in fact, canon.

No need to get hostile about it.

I will go out on a limb and say I haven't observed direct personal attacks on you from man folks in general, not just this thread, so I'm not certain where the harsh is coming from. I'm not sure you intend to come off as such, but you seem, well, kinda angry a lot.



-k

If "we" got it, then people like Tymea wouldn't argue to the death over it, now would he? He obviously doesn't get it. Whether or not it is canon is irrelevant.

No offense man, but you come off pretty snotty. And since I seem to take the blame if I respond in kind with sarcasm like I would normally do, I just choose to point out where I see you doing it. Maybe you don't mean it, maybe you're just a very poor writer, but I don't buy that. But if I'm wrong, in the future when you respond you should word more carefully and read your posts to see how they look. Don't preface an idea with a reference to my opinion, and then finish it with something that is not my opinion. You inferred that I said he was wrong, and that's not true. I don't like liars, so don't present yourself as one.

No, that's what a score of one could mean. Two is just low-average. Note in one of the examples: "Brian doesn't think his character is either antisocial or stupid, so he puts in the minimal 10 BP each to raise them both to 2." The thing to remember about a one or two is that it is just a few karma points away from being a three, so unless you actually plan on leaving a stat low, you don't need to make it a fundamental part of the character.

A character's stats are only a portrait of the character at one moment in time. His physical Attributes might be low because he just recovered from a long illness, or his mental Attributes might be low because his previous life was more sheltered, and he didn't have to think for himself that much. A lot of GMs get up in arms about any Attribute of one, and think that they make the character developmentally disabled. But you actually need to add disadvantages such as infirm or uncouth if you want a character who is that weak in an area. A one is merely the lowest functional Attribute.

What a low-end logic attribute means for your character is little in the way of academic/technical knowledge, and a less than prodigious memory.

But here is the Thing, Kruger... That is your OPINION... The game world has already established it AS FACT... even if you do not think it is believable, your opinion does not matter to the Structural Reality of the Game World as it is written. As has been pointed out, you are free to have that opinion, but it directly conflicts with the facts of the world as already established...

What more need be said?

Oh, and I DO get it, I just do not have many issues with the Fluff of the Game... so much for your observations there Kruger...

I always, from the beginning, presented it as my opinion. Never anything else. This is why you're foolish for arguing a non-point and you obviously don't get it. But you're absolutely right, nothing more needed to be said. That's why I can't figure out why you didn't stop posting about it on page 2. Well, strike that, I know exactly why you kept posting, lol.

Pot, kettle, black.





-k

I have to admit, implanting a datajack in your lunch hour seems crazy.

So? And why would the one be penalized over the other? Except if the GM arbitrarily wants to penalize it (because he does not like it or whatever)?

Bye
Thanee

It isn't arbitary: Gymnastic dodge is taken under the assumption that it IS more limited than straight dodge, and can be disallowed in MANY circumstances.

Gymnastics Dodge is also much easier to get to really high levels (except of course for MBW giving you that huge +3 dodge bonus).

neo-epo
synthcardium r3
Those give you +4 to your athletics rolls (ie Gymnastics Dodge)

Which you normally cannot get for Dodge (MBW being an extreme exception)

Not MANY; possibly some.

And this 'assumption' is stated where in the rules exactly?

There are no requirements to use it (other than obviously being able to move, but that is a requirement for dodging in general).

Disallowing it (and not disallowing Dodge the same) is completely arbitrary.

Besides, while Gymnastics is usually the easier choice (Athletics Group for one, and also has a general use), Dodge is superior in some ways (i.e. you can specialize Dodge against melee or ranged attacks, or you can use it instead of a close combat skill to defend against melee attacks without using Total Defense at all).

@sabs: Synthacardium doesn't improve your chances to dodge attacks in any way. Not sure what "neo-epo" is, but it probably doesn't help either.

Bye
Thanee

Why not, Thanee?

Bye
Thanee

So? What's an Athletics Test if not a Test that involves an Athletics skill?

And Neo-EPO actually avoids even that: "all tests made with skills from the Athletics skill group".

Wouldn't Gymnastics.. being an Athletics Skill.. I dunno.. qualify?

Neo-EPO is a genetic therapy that improves all tests made with skills from the Athletics skill group by 1.
As Yerameyahu was nice enough to point out.

How exactly does Synthcardium and Neo-EPO not raise your gymnastics dodge?

When you use Total Defense you do not make a skill test, you roll your defense dice pool with Gymnastics skill added to the total.

Your Gymnastics skill is not modified by those items, so the bonus is not applicable.

When you make a Gymnastics Test you use them, not when you make a Defense Test.

You also do not add your Agility to the roll. If it was a Gymnastics Test, you would.

What does help, for example, is a Reflex Recorder, because it modifies the skill rating directly.

Bye
Thanee

P.S. Ah, I see; havn't read through all that genetech stuff yet.

If it were a simple Gymnastics Test, then you would (probably) add Agility, yes. However, there're are plenty of places where you don't roll the Attribute. Mechanically, there's no reason it's not a Defense Test; the book refers to it in that exact language, as you say. It is a Test that includes an Athletics skill, period.

I guess your GM could determine that it's abusive to stack Gymnastics that high and disallow it.