roleplaying IS fluff.
Mechanics are ways of arbitrating the fluff when you're not sure.

Yes, because the first thing the military wants is their troops to be vulnerable if they've been juicing early. Ignorance is not bliss, but Bliss is ignorance.

I was able to easily find the addiction rules in the book. Perhaps reading 'Running the Shadows' will enlighten you. Specifically page 256, SR4A where it clearly outlines addictions and how to handle them. Mechanically, as it's clear that's all you care about. Truly, if you know the effects of the drugs on the next damn page you should be able to clearly see the rules for addiction!



Ah, yes. Roleplaying is fluff, and to be ignored in a role-playing game. I see your stance now. You must be a hoot in your game circles.

Please quote me the relevant passages in 4A, unfortunately I only have 4+errata+changes document.

And in those sources I have, all that it says there is that it's GM call when to make an addiction test. GM fiat is NOT a mechanic, it's not even a rule, it's just laziness. We can't talk about it here, because it's USELESS to talk about stuff that noone can be on the same page about. As long as there isn't a rule such as: "Call for an addiction test after every three uses within a week" there isn't anything to talk about here. If you were to be a GM, you might call for tests after every application, another GM might call for the test after ever 10, and someone else might never call for one. That's how THEIR worlds are, but that's not worth discussing here. As I said, if PCs use combat drugs, because they are not really that addictive when used with care, probably so should the military, because that fits their world. If PCs don't use them because they are too addictive, then probably the military shouldn't, either.



Roleplaying is working your character's angle within the mechanics. As long as there are no mechanics, nothing I roleplay has mechanical consequences. I can roleplay for my character that "my foot is hurting", and then sprint the 100m without any mechanical difference whatsoever. And as such, I am free to PLAY the character on drugs as edgy, but it will not change his decision-making in the least. I can CHOOSE to make him stupid, but as far as I know, those fluff descriptions are exaggerations. Now if there were a mechanical consequence, like on plenty other drugs, for instance, -1 to logic, then that would be something hard and fast to go by. If the effects are so small as to not warrant such a consequence, then they can't be that serious. Hence, there is nothing there to signify that combat drugs influence a characters decision-making processes.

And that also makes you quite right, at least in the first part of your statement: Roleplaying IS fluff. Whether it is ignored is up to every player.

I'm really surprised that I have to explicitly state this here:

The world follows the mechanics, not anything else. If you can't reproduce a fluff text with mechanics, then it's a worthless fluff-text, because MY experience in the same situation might end up totally different.

Writing fluff instructions such as "play the character as depressed" is totally worthless, because it contains no relevant information. How do I play a depressed person? One person might be sullen, the other might be forcibly outgoing to cover it up. That's not a rule. Now if it said "when you are depressed, make a Composure test before every strenuous or demanding task to see whether you can sum up the discipline to do it", then THAT is a rule. That's something to go by. It may not fit everyone's definition, but it defines THE GAME WORLD.
People tend to forget this in SR, because on the outside SR looks a lot like our real world, but IT'S NOT. It's a game world defined by the RULES of the game. If you want to play something that mimics the real world, or mimics action movies, then I would suggest freeform roleplaying without any fixed rules. I've done that a lot, and it's very rewarding form a roleplaying perspective, and very unrewarding from a "do cool stuff" perspective, because you always win.

Thats because different people respond differently to different stimuli. Basic psychology.

The point remaining that there is no standard to even base things on unless you write a rule to create one. And a rule can only work with mechanics, which don't have to be numerical, but they must contain certain methods of definite resolution. On top of that you might have a randomizer, which is good enough to differentiate between person A's and person B's experience.

Define a rule that's not numerical.

And no a randomizer isn't "good enough" to differentiate between the two. Unless Person A and Person B are bipolar or some such, they wont respond randomly. I know that whenever I drink coffee, there is no discernible effect on me. My girlfriend, on the other hand, wont even touch the stuff because she gets hyper and can't even begin to focus or try to go to sleep. We both have different responses to the same stimuli, but they are consistent every time we recieve that stimuli.

@ Whiskey: I don't know. There is an impressive number of FSC and BSB guys and girls running around with gangster grips, ACOGs, and PAC 15s attached to very shiny M4s and that all so important "duct tape buttstock magazine. " I having just watched a shiny new batch of machinegun ACOGs arrive, (which, by the by, are brilliant pieces of equipment) , and nearly a quarter of them get sent to the BSB so that they could have optics for the 240s on their MRAPs. With the end result that the actual light infantry battalions they had been intended for still had several guns with that POS M145 on it.

As for your experience with an HHC, you are correct. but that is largely because although companies sign for property, battalions are the point at which a budget is usually established, and just as importantly the TO&E is built around. The first Property book office is at BDE level, and they track for USR by BN. You can shift kit around inside a battalion with nothing more than a lateral transfer and a "hey you" from the big XO so long as the all important USR equipment readiness level for the Bn stays the same. As a result, most combat arms units tend to stockpile their muskets and PVS-7s in the HHC on the premise that "what the hell, the S-1 section really doesn't need the shinies", which is true. Its also what allows you to strip the HHC of short items to plus up the line companies beyond what "the big book of property" says they should have.

The BSB, and higher support echelons, however, are tracked as an independent battalion even though their FSC's are usually OPCON the battalion they work with. Which means they typically are allocated their own budget by BDE, and much more importantly, that it takes the agreement of 2 BCs, or a dictate from the BDE Commander (usually via PBO) , to move items around between the support guys and the line. And as every commander wants the best and the sexiest for his guys, the BSB tends to be inordinately well equipped considering its role. You can imagine how likely it is that anyone is going to deal with the shitstorm involved in forcing a transfer of sexy stuff from the FSC to a line unit, which is why the HHC is usually the first organization to be reduced to M16s and half-broken CCOs.

@ Drug Debate: No. Pretty much the staple for military operations, as opposed to SWAT teams or police, is that they expect their actions to continue indefinitely and continuously. Anything that takes a unit off the line just as surely as killing them, and pretty much all of the drug crashes do, is going to be frowned upon except for the most exceptional circumstances.

What if you pop your cocktail of the day, launch your big attack, and ooh..shit. We spent the first 3 hours fighting through their scouts. Now we're on the main line and the obstacle belts which were a bit further back than we thought...and everyone is falling to pieces. Or you trigger an ambush, kill everything with the help of drug X, and then fall apart on the exfil. Or you pop your drugs when the enemy hits you, but he's attacking echelon, so when the decisive 2nd and 3rd echelons arrive, your unit is now dogmeat. Or your conducting a defense in depth. Or the fight simply goes more than a few hours. Or its a counterinsurgency, and as soon as your done machinegunning that no-tech militiaman, you have to interact with the population. The list goes on.

No doubt that combat drugs could make individual soldiers significantly more lethal for a short period of time. The tactical, operational, and indeed even strategic cost, is so high either in immediate or future failings that mass distribution is unlikely in all but the most tightly controlled, specified situations.

Even in the "I'll make my REMFs super in an ambush" theory, you aren't going to improve the tactical skill, readiness, or composition of said support unit, so now all its doing is being wrong a lot braver and a lot faster. Which doesn't appreciably increase the likelihood of the unit surviving (and it'll probably tear apart what limited C2 there was) , even if individuals might do better.

AppliedCheese.. I love the insight.

That being said, you had more acronyms in there than a Teenage girl texting.

Fair point, and in fact it even happens for stronger drugs, like pot. However, in game terms there should be a baseline, and a variance. Everything else would be putting too much detail into a mechanism. And if you're fleshing out the system you might as well add resistance to a certain drug as a trait.

A non-numerical rule would be using other, usually gamey, mechanics to resolve things, such as executing combinations or series of rock-paper-scissor like encounters to resolve a certain situation.
Or it's a simple if-then rule: If a character is doing this and that, then something else non-numerical happens. However, it has to be at least something tangible. "Becomes hyperagitated" is all good and well, but you have to define what that means.

As it is now, we have:
Character A does an action (pop a drug).
Effect in game terms: Some numbers.
Fluff description, with only very few usable mechanical effects.

As an example how to improve things, the drug called Betel calls for an Addiction test even on first use, and you automatically gain a light addiction, which you can't avoid unless you have an adept power or something similar. That's a usable mechanic. Simply saying "it's highly addictive" is not, because basically that puts you at the mercy of your GM, which is something a roleplayer should never be.

@AppliedCheese:
You make valid points concerning drug use, which is why I concur that frontline troops should get their combat effectiveness elsewhere. The point is simply that support troops will be simply so disadvantaged if everyone else has three IPs to their one, that they will just be slaughtered without an equalizer. Part of the equalizer is quick Tacnet access. If you're immediately patched into a Tacnet upon coming into hostile contact then tactical assistance can immediately be given. The second part might be to just hit the gas (for a supply convoy) or call for backup, but until that happens... I'm just not sure. What's better, dead now, or possibly dead in 6-8 hours when Jazz wears off? You might connect the injectors for these drugs to the central Tacnet, too, so that they can be remote applied by a tactical HQ only when they are really needed.

Also, a lot of crashing is just stun damage, which you can hold back by Stim until you reach a safer place.

Just look at the following situation(s):

A convoy of supply trucks is moving from a storage depot to a military base. They have to cross some ugly territory full of gangs, rabble, and maybe even critters. It's a closed off highway with high concrete walls on either side, but nevertheless. Perhaps simultaneously there are some problems with illegal border crossings, most of the available CAS is out searching for smugglers in T-Birds, so air-support won't be available. The convoy is part drone trucks, maybe led by the 2070 equivalent of a Hummer with a HMG, but being short on people, the accompanying soldiers (2-4 in the Hummer and two truck drivers) are not really front-line troops. The highway security is maintained by a private security company, but they are even more understaffed than the military, because cutting costs is good, and there isn't any better overland route in that area.

The convoy is attacked by creating a barrier on the highway using heavy vehicles, and then swarming it from either sides.

Situation a) The attackers are gangers, like the 405ers. Assume a lot of cheap manpower, but also lots of weapons

Situation b) The attackers are organised syndicate goons, such as drug cartels. Fewer people, but slightly more professional, about 50% or more have cyberware

Situation c) The attackers are runners. 4-5 guys with a ton of IPs, excellent equipment, classic Hacker/Sam/Mage/Face group, or, for a job like this, more like two Sams, a Hacker and a Mage, while the Face that may be there mostly hangs back.

At the barrier, the soldiers would have to dismount to clear the barrier or turn around and run, which is difficult for the trucks.

How does this play out?

As of now, the available equalizers are:
- The tacnet
- Possible rigger takeover of the Hummer, or more likely, a pilot program that is better than the driver, and faster. There might even be LMGs on the trucks, in automated turrets. That's sort of cheap, now, and likely as not really effective, considering that by SR logic, those trucks are probably going to be armoured, too.
- Dismount a cheap wheeled combat drone, first

What else?

Why is this a bad thing? The only real reasons I can think of are:

A) If you have a bad GM they might be dicks and GM fiat everything that goes against their opinion. In that situation, however, I don't know why you'd be playing with that GM as the campaign in question probably isn't that good.

B) If you play in the above situation because thats the only group in the area, you could either try online gaming or gaming without that one person (or just gaming without them a GM so that they're controllable, but that can only happen if the GM has the power to do so)


Because when a good GM has power, it means that they are free to do whatever they want to make a good story. A good GM is unlikely to screw you over. A good GM also needs a room to work the rules. Its the same situation as Black Ops. Say a country (the GM in this metaphor) needs to defend itself. International laws says that it can't (the situation you're proposing). If the country can't defend itself then it dies. However, a the country might want to make a preemptive strike to deter this attack on itself. To do so it works outside the rules (the current situation that you're fighting against) by make a black operation, one that is off the books and never officially happened (roleplaying/GM fiat, which lies outside the rules).

It's part of the whole confrontational aspect of RPG you see sometimes.

Personally, I've been playing 'Zen' RPG's for 15 years now more than anything else. Games with no actual rules. Just a written description of your character and what he can do. The GM is the arbiter, and there's no rules lawyering because the rules are all in the GM's head.

It's a completely different style of gaming. I have one friend, who needs rules, because he likes to read through them and find something legal but ridiculously silly combination. (Half Dragon/Lizardman shaman) in D&D as an example

BUt I've run some really fun games, and played in really fun games where we used no set rules. Just dice, and some ideas of world balance.

The one problem I have noticed with it, is that when I run, I tend to make the characters too powerful

The GM has ultimate control of any game, regardless of system.

If a GM is a dick GM, he's going to make the game a miserable experience no matter what the rules system.

If he's a good GM, it just the same shouldn't matter what game system it is, he's going to give a equally good game.



-k

While that's true, it's not the most useful thing. It's not really a question of two choices, but across a whole continuum.

We do predominantly use structured, numerical systems for RPGs. It makes it easier to balance things, removes some of the human arbitrariness (intentional and unintentional), and lets the players at least seem to work against tangible challenges. Freeform RPG can be a lot of fun, but structured RPG certainly can, too.

Sorry for the acronyms. In short, FSC and BSB = support guys assigned to, but not owned by, the combat battalion (BN). HHC = The support guys, specialized troops, and command staff that a combat battalion actually owns. USR = monumental report for the army to track readiness.

Let me say, I think the "higher echelon release" of the drugs might be a possibility, though one that would be full of loopholes and potential problems. Certainly the most likely use if any. You make a good point there.

That's a woefully under escorted convoy. Usually 3-4 combat vehicles is the minimum requirement for movement through potential badspots. I'll grant in 2072 alot of that may be replaced by extra escort drones and such.

Tactically, I could go on at length at how security measures, drills, and other forces could be used to help negate the situation, but that's not really the argument.

Really, though, what we're debating is the viability of these 1 IP troops in combat versus 3 IP troops. And the answer is simple, both in terms of fluff and mechanics.

First off, no, nothing is ever going to make one IP as useful as three.

However, there is a partial equalizer in delayed actions. If a combat turn represents 3 seconds, then, naturally, unless every soldier is pulling the trigger in near simultaneity, some of them are going to delay their action until the next IP when they have a better shot because that bastard over there isn't doing cartwheels anymore, or he starts shooting.

Similarly, if the runner in question doesn't start moving until IP 3, he only gets one third of his move distance, per RAW the movement over a turn is divided amongst IPs.

3 seconds is 3 seconds. Just because you have 3 IPs doesn't mean that the enemy does everything gin the first second if he only has one.

So it looks like:

Runners initiate attack, kill one vehicle/2-3 troops. Remaing runners are in "full defense" either behind cover or moving forward slowly. 33-50% of the soldiers and the heavy weapons fire on, and kill, the shooting sammie (who cannot full defense as he is shooting/clicking/whatever to open the attack). Remainder delay actions until the next IP, because they can't quite get a bead on the guys doing the home plate slide. Mages and hackers do their thing. If a mage isn't in full defense because he's doing his thing, obviously he gets killed for being the only guy who is not doing the electric slide, uses another third of the force to do it. 2nd IP, hold actions until a runner comes out of full defense. Kill him. 3rd IP, wait for it, if they don't come out, remaining forces fire. Runners have covered 10-20m of ground depending on meta and ware. That's acceptable for killing two runners.

If the runners decide to go full fire sin the first IP, just kill them. troops can see who's shooting them, and shoot back. One heavy gun to each runner, split the fires of your other troops/drones. Hits are pretty much guaranteed courtesy of agi 3, auto/heavy 2, smartlink, repeat source of attack, and widebursts with comp, unless a runner's reaction sitting in the 8+ range, and after the hits, the death is happening. Some soldiers still hold fire, because hey, maybe they didn't get the rifle around in time or what not.

if all runners attack in full def, split fires over their IPs to represent each soldier pulling the trigger approximately "when he think he has a shot". besides being natural, it prevents a cheesy IP use to charge and volley cause I'm more IP'd.

My thoughts on transport through a hostile area in shadowrun would be the Gun Truck. I'd love to see a shadowrun version.

Sorry, but you can always spend your next IP as a pre-emptive full defense. So, it would be like this:

First IP:
Street Sammurai wins initiative kills/disables 2-4 soldiers using 2 bursts.
Everybody else starts shooting at the Street Samurai who declares full defense and spends his next IP.

Second IP:
Street Samurai does nothing because he declared full defense.
Soldiers do nothing except move because they suck and don't have another IP.

Third IP:
Soldiers continue to do nothing except move because they suck and don't have another IP.
Because the Street Samurai took a pop of Cram he gets another IP and kills/disables 2-4 soldiers using 2 bursts.

Ahh...but here's the joy of that...all it takes is one soldier firing to put the sammie in full def. So you can effectively keep the sammie from shooting, period, with one shot per IP. Two piss por grunts = one fully suppressed sammie. The machinegun kills him with a nice wide burst that removes his defense pool.

The machine gun in wide burst applies the penalty for that attack only. Any other attack made after it will only have the cumulative penalty of adittional defense rolls.

So a Samurai in full defense with 14 dice is attacked by 1 rifle, a machine gun in wide burst and a rifle.

First attack: unmodified dicepool.
Second attack: dicepool -10
Third attack: -2

And if everybody is going to do only wide bursts, the damage is unmodified (which means 5 to 7 points of damage that can be easily absorbed by a Samurai wearing a decent armor.

qft

Ignoring various arguments (drug fluff roleplaying does/doesn't matter and army vs. shadowrunners) here, finally are my thoughts on the topic.

They are based on the following assumptions:

* UCAS Military is not fucking around. Their power should be enough that they are a very serious threat to Shadowrunners. Special forces (as opposed to regular grunts) should mop the floor with runners on a regular basis. In game terms, between Professional Rating 4 (Regular Front Line Troops) and Professional Rating 6 (Elite Units, Veteran Tier One Operators, SEALS, Delta, Etc.).
* UCAS Military is essentially in keeping with the US Military. In other words, they are well trained, well equipped, and high-tech...some might say high tech to a fault.
* Gear should be external when possible so that it can be reused easily.

That said, here is what I imagine would be worn/used/carried by your basic PFC on a 'typical' combat mission. This is (mostly) not annotated, which means I think most of my choices are fairly obvious. This is not going into the gear carried by specialists of various stripes.

Gear (External)
* Colt M22A3 (Modified With Smartlink and Skinlink)
* Colt Government 2066 OR Colt America L36 (Note: Depends on which wins out in the long run, .45 ACP or 9MM. I'm pulling for .45 myself.)
* Survival Knife
* Ammunition As Appropriate (I don't know how much ammo real soldiers carry, so maybe Applied Cheese can elaborate here.)
* Camouflage Suit, with modifications based on soldier role and the nature of the area deployed. Some form of chemical protection is probably common.
* Helmet
* Rating 6 Microtransceiver
* Goggles (Rating 4) with: Image Link, Low Light, Thermographic, and Smartlink.
* Survival Kit
* Gas Mask
* Rappeling Gloves
* Several Light Sticks and/or Magnesium Torches.
* Micro Flare Launcher
* Biomonitor
* Two Rating 5 Stim Patches.

I will edit post with internal gear later and more detail later.

This is nice! I see this as a definite option. Although you don't actually need to even give up carrying cargo using SR4 rules, AFAIK, because you can just slap on armour and put an automated turret on the truck. The abundance of heavy automatic weapons IS a definite advantage for the military, due to wide burst. Secondly you probably can't disable them without destroying the truck - and possibly the cargo you are after.

And if the US uses them NOW, they definitely will have some in 2070.


Oh, we're on the same page. My earlier example specifically related to non-frontline troops, so basically even below Prof Rating 4.


Actually I think I have our answer to the supply convoy problem: Drones get three IPs, and are really cheap in SR4, I would expect the military to go all-out with them. A drone controlled truck with a turret could defend itself by laying down a lot of fire. I would expect the military gets a volume licence on drone pilots, hence can basically spam every vehicle with a good pilot program. In addition, small escort drones could do the rest, and keep up with mostly everything a sammy can throw their way. Even if a few die, they draw a lot of fire. Disabling vehicles takes a lot of money for expensive ammo, or requires copious amounts of explosives put down at the ambush site. I would say it's actually harder than IRL, where vehicles use other rules . All you need now is two guys who stay within their armoured vehicles and tell the drones what to do.

So basically, in non-human-essential positions, drones can replace soldiers, and even do a better job.

Final verdict: hitting a supply convoy will not be an easy task, even for runners, and chargen runners won't be able to do it at all, if they don't have a way of getting anti-vehicle weapons.

I'd put Special Forces on level with the most runner groups, especially since they tend to fill the same niche. (Small, highly trained and well-equipped units that tend to take on specialized missions.) Which is not to say that regular grunts wouldn't be a threat, just that a large part of the threat would be due to superior numbers and firepower.

Since it hasn't been covered very well, where does military armor fit in in the equation? Veterans only? Frontline grunts? What?

Issued based on mission spec prior to, for example, major offensive operations?

Actually, milspec armor was brought up, i think the general consensus basically being special ops types only.

There's two schools of thought. Based on the budgeting from earlier in the thread, light milspec could conceivably be issued to frontline troops and still be within our average budget, with the heavier armors being issued on a 'per mission' basis.

Or, there's the camo suit as standard issue, and all milspecs issued on 'per mission' basis.

I disagree on that one. (Slightly)

Since the milspec armor is fitted to one wearer, i would say: once somebody has had the honor to be measured for one, he will be wearing it always (Well, not at home or on standby of course... but on every mission where it is possible)

But overall: i am in the "Specialists only" group. The normal dudes (which aren't expensive enough) can have Camo suit, Flak Jacket or something.

Ah... and also: Isn't it allowed at the moment (reality) to wear self-aquired armor in the field? For example the us-guys in iraq and after that in Afghanistan... didn't some of those guys bought themselves a Dragonskin armor, and others had some additional armor sent from some organisation back home?

So i think it may be possible for career-soldiers that they might buy themselves a FFBA and PPP units (as much as they can carry) or even to get themselves a milspec? (I guess that one might take a bit of paperwork though).

It was up until '06 or so, then the Pentagon banned the use of non-issue armor. It was their concern that the troops were getting inferior sets - the politicking and controversy surrounding Dragon Skin still hasn't gone away.

The guys who bought themselves Dragonskin armor were told they could not wear it. A few were court martialed for insubordination for wearing them anyways. It was a /huge/ stink in early 2002/2003.

Not sure what came of it after that. There was a lot of public uproar about not allowing soldiers to spend their own money on getting better armor than what the US Army provided.

I am a little new to the Shadowrun Universe. What exactly is the role of the UCAS Military? What sort of missions are they called upon to preform?

Also, with current trends in drone useage, maybe the standard infantryman is actually a rigger? A Steel Lynx is only 5,000ny and couldn't you follow behind them in a tank with signal boosters to prevent jamming.

The stink comes from the classification process. Dragon Skin claimed its base set was Class III approved before it actually was, and stuff just went downhill from there. DoD claims that they don't want soldiers using what they view as inferior armor sets. Their certification for III/IV got pulled, and they've been fighting to get it back ever since. There's been claims of favoritism, fixing the trials - everything under the sun.

@squee: The UCAS military (or any national military) is primarily used as a defensive measure - border patrols, high-profile situations such as the Arcology Shutdown, and the like. Their role is to fuck you up if you step too far over the line. Remember - in GTA, the army is the six-star response.

Look, if UCAS isn't using Military Grade Armor.. who the fuck is?

I think the consensus (to the extent the consensus is possible, or even desirable) is that the UCAS Military certainly uses Milspec Armor, but it's not issued to every soldier, or even every infantry soldier.

That said, I probably wouldn't have every soldier outfitted in Milspec armor, if only because I wouldn't want to run a series of games where the runners were trying to kidnap MP's from Ft. Lewis.

I'm kinda proponent of the "spec forces use milspec, grunts don't" especially given this little food for thought.

Training troops is time consuming and expensive.

Milspec armor starts at 12k and goes upwards from there.

Skillwires on the other hand are 2k x rating.

Wouldn't it be faster/more affordable/more effective to churn out a bunch of skillwired troops with camo suits? Save the really good hardware for those who you want to actually preserve.

Except that the UCAS Military is going to be even smaller with less non-combat personnel.
Grunts use milspec armor /today/

You guys are still thinking of WWII and Vietnam Era US Army that was fielded mostly by Draftees.
Today's Army is all volunteer, though some are more volunteer than others. It's a smaller army with better training and equipment. it's not a bunch of guys in Juarez with Uzi's.

Yeah, I can't remember seeing many recent pictures of forward troops that DIDN'T have on as much body armor as was practical to wear day-to-day.



-k

My thought on this (4E) for UCAS:

Rear Echlon troops: Armor Jacket, Military Helmet, and either a Colt M23 with smartlink, Colt Cobra SMG with smartlink, APIV (4 clips-normal ammo). Helmet has ultrasound, low light, thermo, smartlink, commlink, vision magnification 3. He also has a knife, and probably a couple of doses of Jazz (if not issued, he'll pick some up elsewhere).

Standard Rifleman: Light Military grade armor with helmet (same load out as above), Colt M22A2 (8 clips APDS, 200 rds loose, and 24 HE mini grenades and 6 smoke), 4 fragmentation grenades, 2 IR smoke, knife. Cyber includes wired reflexes of 1.

Other gear will vary depending upon duty station and MOS.

See
I'm not sure I agree about wired Reflexes I.

I think that /probably/ to get wired reflexes I, you have to survive your first enlistment, and re-enlist.
I think you hit Corporal before you get WRI.

Though I could see gunny's and Master chiefs having WRII

I agree. I floated the idea previously in one of these topics that if the US Army is offering 20k as a reenlistment bonus, then the UCAS army could probably throw Wired I in as well. (Also with the assumption that soldiers with that type of ware who were transitioning into law enforcement or corp sec could get the permits transferred as well.)

Frag your gun truck. Too much likelihood of getting tagged by an EFP or deep-buried and flipping over, it flipping over while you cross some crappy local national bridge or someone tossing in a grenade. I've personally driven one of these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAE_Caiman_%2...ored_vehicle%29 and one of these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RG-33 (long and short variant) in combat patrols and much prefer the RG-33 short over the Caiman because it has better area coverage and better off-roading capability. I can't wait to try out one of these though http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-ATV .

The standard loadout for my brigade is a minimum of 7 - 30 round magazines (not clips ... fraggin developers) or 4 - 200 round canisters for the SAW.

I can see the UCAS army issuing out light milspec armor to everyone. They got your ass for at least 3 years (minimum)

And although it's a volunteer force, I'm pretty sure they only accept those individuals who meet certain physical builds and requirements. A few years ago the Army was taking "bodies", no matter what they were like. Now, they're going back to getting rid of anyone who's broke or incompetent. I just had to inform my soldiers that they can now be demoted and/or chaptered out if they fail a PT test make-up. Fun stuff

According to my understanding of the fluff (or maybe just my opinion) runners should be scared shitless by things like FBI Swat, UCAS Special Ops, and elite Red Samurai. Because these enemies have the same power level as the runner and probably better tactics, numbers, and logistical support.

I think special ops use it, assault troops (like the Rangers or Marines) for high-threat combat missions, but for the most part I imagine it's too expensive and uncomfortable for it to be practical to issue to standard grunts by default.

The Japanese Imperial Army.
Remember, most State Nations are broke and/or have little influence. Japan with THREE Japanacorps is the new super power.

Edit: make it 4. I forgot Evo's headquarter is in Russia, but Buttercup is the major owner.

Also mercenary and some corp forces would be using milspec. I still stand by my list.

That's fair, Neurosis. My assumption is that runners and special ops are probably pretty comparable in terms of dice pools, but the fluff considerations go beyond the dice pools. (By the same token, one of the most challenging things for a runner team to go up against is another runner team.)

I would put in that a spec-ops team would have runner-level DPs, but far exceed runner-level breadth of skills.

Also consider just how damn many runners have a written backstory of being ex-SpecOps.



-k

Yeah, except they're all bullshit. So lame. If those runners actually have skills and attributes at the appropriate level in all the appropriate skills, I apologize to their players. Otherwise…

My last character's backstory was *wannabe* Spec-Ops. Well, not even: more like a military-buff geek, who plays the 2070 version of Modern Warfare too much. Hehe.

The Internal Gear Post ... Here Goes.

From the 4E fluff, Cyberware is so ubiquitous and common as to have become passe. Of course, in general, once the US Army makes anything standard issue it takes years and years of tests and trials and bidding to come up with a replacement for it, so I wouldn't be surprised if some cyberware (not bioware) was still standard issue for grunts just out of bootcamp.

* Datajack (Seems essential for accessing things like Linguasofts and Mapsofts which would massively increase the effectiveness of the modern warrior.)
* Eyeware: None. Most of the enhancements fit into goggles, and asking soldiers to give up their natural eyes is giving up a lot.
* Earware: Ditto, see above.
* Bone Lacing. Relatively cheap, and not THAT innately dangerous for discharged soldiers to be packing. Would probably be removed only from soldiers who were dishonorably discharged. I see it is part of the incentive package, in addition to things like paying for college. Kevlar is best because it doesn't let you punch for physical.
* Dermal Plating: See above. Rating 2 is probably standard.
* Reaction enhancing 'ware: Definitely not. Too essence intensive, too expensive, and too dangerous to leave in discharged soldiers. Maybe some Wired Reflexes for grunts who re-up for a second tour, as someone said.
* Cyberlimbs: No, for all of the reasons discussed above. This is definitely not going to be standard issue...except for soldiers who have lost limbs in the course of duty.
* Skillwires: For specialists only. So not quite 'standard issue', and a 'no' for our purposes.

So your typical grunt may be carrying something like:

* Datajack
* Kevlar Bone Lacing
* Dermal Plating 2

For a total cost of 20,500 and 2.1 Essence.

I'll discuss the possibility of including other types of 'ware in later posts.

I would agree with that. I can't stand having a character that doesn't have their story and stats match up - last "merc" character I played spent most of his BP on skills for that reason. And I made him an old man with asthma and creaky Desert Wars era cyberware.

Doesn't stop tons of folks from still putting in that spec-ops background, though. And typically aged in their 20s or something, somehow.



-k