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scarius
hey all, i am new to the world of shadowrun but i decided to check it out by buying the anniversary corebook pdf. the game looks like lots of fun and i am really looking forward to my first run, as a gm or a player.

as stated in the topic i am posting my first character created, i have been looking at some of the sample characters that have been posted upon this forum and after a lot of reading i think that i have the creation process down. i found a spread sheet thingy which says that it was made by these forums and that is how i found you guys. so i used the spread sheet and made the following character

solider

race: human

body: 3/9
agility: 4/9
reaction: 6/9
strength: 3/9
charisma: 3/9
intuition: 4/9
logic: 3/9
willpower: 4/9
edge: 7/7

initiative: 10
initiative pass: 3
essence: 3.00

skills
athletics (group) 3
outdoors (group) 3
automatics: 4 - aussalt rifles 2
dodge: 3
first aid: 3
heavy weapons: 3
pistols: 3
throwing weapons: 2
unarmed combat: 2

knowledge skills
safe houses: 3
corporate security tactics: 4
small unit tactics: 4
corporate security: 4
military tactics: 4

language skills
english: n
japanese: 4

negative qualities
simsense vertigo: -10
SINner (standard) -5
scorched -5
sensitive neural structure -5

cyberware
wired reflexes 2

gear
knife

ares preditor
quick draw holster
5x spare clips
silencer
80x explosive rounds

ares alpha
sling
5x spare clips
250 regular ammo
1x spare clip
6x high explosive grenade launcher grenades

regular clothing
armour vest
nonconductivity
lined coat
nonconductivity
sunglasses
low light vision
flare compensation
smart link

commlink
erika elite
iris orb
analyze 2
browse 2
edit 2

4x fake licenses rating 4
2x fake sins rating 4
reppeling gloves
microwire rope
gecko tape gloves
medkit rating 4
basic doc wagon
3x months squatter

60 monies left



so tell me what you think
Karoline
Is that a reaction of 6(8 ) or 4(6)?

Other than that, I'd highly suggest some muscle toner to improve agility, as that is what you use to shoot people.

I'd also suggest dropping edge to 6. Those extra 25 BP aren't really worth it for a maxed edge. You'd be better off pouring that into a bunch of cyber/bio. Things like muscle toner, platelet factories, maybe dermal plating.

Oh, and get some earbuds.
scarius
original post edited, adding the upper quality for stats

why are earbuds good? i understand that being able to hear better is good, but why not go for a bio/cyber ear upgrade?
Karoline
You misunderstood smile.gif

4(6) means that you have a natural 4, but you have a 6 with modifications from ware, in this case your wired reflexes. 6(8 ) means the same thing, natural 6 with an 8 from modifications.

I basically want to know if you spent 65 BP on your reaction or 30 BP.

And earbuds are good because they cost around 500 nuyen and no essence to get topped out. Cyber/bio costs several thousand and some essence. Still, you can get the cyber/bio if you want, but you have neither, which means at current you have no means to communicate with your teammates via your commlink. On that note, you also should grab a subvocal mic.
Froggie
QUOTE (scarius @ Nov 10 2010, 10:01 AM) *
original post edited, adding the upper quality for stats

why are earbuds good? i understand that being able to hear better is good, but why not go for a bio/cyber ear upgrade?


Communication purposes? To hear audio notifications/voice communication from your commlink.

*Edit: bleh, beaten to it.
scarius
ok cool, i will get the ear buds, also i put 4 into my reaction
Fauxknight
QUOTE (Karoline @ Nov 10 2010, 09:50 AM) *
Oh, and get some earbuds.


He has a pair that came with his commlink.
Hamsnibit
I would strongly suggest that you make more use of cyber and/or bioware muscle replacement for example is cheap, mix several cyberware upgrades to enhance your attributes and gain dice pool modifier and other benefits - it will be worth your money. Make use of second hand stuff, essence is irrelevant you can replace them later with better and more efficient variants.

Also be very careful with the sinner quality! sinner in shadowrun means that every single police and corp unit, may it be a vehicle, a (more or less) flesh and blood entity and drone can recognize and identify you an sight. your dna and all biometric data is saved everywhere and you have to pay some good hackers and buy off the quality to get rid of it. If you should ever make any mistake and leave any trace - they will find you and kick your ass the next time you walk across the street.
And trust me, law enforcement is more or less omnipresent once you even enter a c-zone, its part of the setting.
At least, you should make sure you have the official licences to use your stuff or you will get busted anyway.
Another option is crawling in the slums as long as you get rid of your SIN.

Two things about your gear: which rating does your nonconductivity upgrades have?
and you might want to upgrade your weapons and comlink with skilink, its cheap and make your gear safe against hackers as long as you turn wifi off your comlink is a security weakpoint.
Fauxknight
QUOTE (scarius @ Nov 10 2010, 09:39 AM) *
commlink
erika elite
iris orb
analyze 2
browse 2
edit 2


Check out page 232 in the wireless section, when you buy an OS you can also get a common use program suite (Analyze, Browse, Command, Edit) at a discounted price. In your case the lowest end suite is the same price as the 300 you paid, you'll get the same rating 2 analyze, browse, and edit but you'll also get rating 1 command thrown in for free.

I know what your thinking, earbuds and a rating 1 common use program for free!! Its like someone just dropped 60 nuyen in front of you, thats .012 character build points you just saved...well thats what I'm here for.
Karoline
QUOTE (Hamsnibit @ Nov 10 2010, 10:33 AM) *
I would strongly suggest that you make more use of cyber and/or bioware muscle replacement for example is cheap, mix several cyberware upgrades to enhance your attributes and gain dice pool modifier and other benefits - it will be worth your money. Make use of second hand stuff, essence is irrelevant you can replace them later with better and more efficient variants.

Agreed.
QUOTE
Also be very careful with the sinner quality! sinner in shadowrun means that every single police and corp unit, may it be a vehicle, a (more or less) flesh and blood entity and drone can recognize and identify you an sight. your dna and all biometric data is saved everywhere and you have to pay some good hackers and buy off the quality to get rid of it. If you should ever make any mistake and leave any trace - they will find you and kick your ass the next time you walk across the street.
And trust me, law enforcement is more or less omnipresent once you even enter a c-zone, its part of the setting.
At least, you should make sure you have the official licences to use your stuff or you will get busted anyway.
Another option is crawling in the slums as long as you get rid of your SIN.

You're blowing SIN waaaaaaaaaay out of proportion. Having a SIN is only slightly worse than not having a SIN, and only in some respects. Just like the police should never know that your SINless character is SINless, the police should never know a SINners real SIN. That's what fake SINs are for. Keep in mind, it is only a 5 point quality. You're describing it like a 30 point quality.
QUOTE
Two things about your gear: which rating does your nonconductivity upgrades have?
and you might want to upgrade your weapons and comlink with skilink, its cheap and make your gear safe against hackers as long as you turn wifi off your comlink is a security weakpoint.

Skinlink is good. You could also just set your wireless to only go out to 1m or something. Still, I agree with skinlink, great in case someone throws up a jammer.
Yerameyahu
No subvocal mic. Trodes do *everything*.
Karoline
Yeah, but subvocal is a bit more discrete.
Yerameyahu
Psh.
Inncubi
I communicate with teammates via texting and trodes -no voice, and only need to think to input that text via the trodes- or use, when in a mission, the micro trasneiver -rating 6 if possible- for interteam communications -and a subvocal mic-. Hackers typically look for commlink signals, so it is more subtle to use the micro transeiver.

Also, with a team I trust I start training for hand-sign communications so the team can reliably go on "silent modes" and if the opposition uses little magic, mindlink (extended) is a wonderful option. Can be sustained by a spirit -drain one force off it and it can keep it for a day- so you are free to use sustaining focus for other things. Just make sure the spirit recieves some sort of favour in return, and if it becomes uncontrolled the spirit doesn't hold a huge grudge againts you -this is fluff, not a rule backed action-.

These are some ideas on the communications... and a slight derailment from the thread.
Karoline
QUOTE (Inncubi @ Nov 10 2010, 12:43 PM) *
I communicate with teammates via texting and trodes -no voice, and only need to think to input that text via the trodes- or use, when in a mission, the micro trasneiver -rating 6 if possible- for interteam communications -and a subvocal mic-. Hackers typically look for commlink signals, so it is more subtle to use the micro transeiver.

No, they're looking for wireless signals. If they see a new wireless signal that isn't supposed to be there, they're going to react, regardless of what is making the signal. And really, a micro transeiver isn't anything special, it is just something that puts out the wireless signal of your commlink, which, given the way the matrix works, doesn't help you any.
Yerameyahu
Technically, no. A micro-trans is a totally distinct 2-way voice radio, in SR4. If you use the RAW scrupulously, only *some* of the normal Matrix actions affect them, because they're not really on the Matrix. It's pretty vague, and I think most GMs would let Sniffers find them. They would also be a Peripheral Node, for all that matters.
Inncubi
QUOTE (Karoline @ Nov 10 2010, 12:47 PM) *
No, they're looking for wireless signals. If they see a new wireless signal that isn't supposed to be there, they're going to react, regardless of what is making the signal. And really, a micro transeiver isn't anything special, it is just something that puts out the wireless signal of your commlink, which, given the way the matrix works, doesn't help you any.


I remember reading somewhere teh micro transeivers where more subtle than commlinks...
If I am wrong I take the convenience of using the micro-transeivers back, but I would like further explanation Karoline, since you deffinitely are more knowledgeable in the rules than I am.

Edit: Yerameyahu, can you expand on that? You posted before I finished this one...
Karoline
Well, didn't look them up special, and if Yera is right, they have some special rules, which seems weird, because a wireless signal is a wireless signal.
Yerameyahu
So, a Micro-Trans is an earbud, a subvocal mic, and a "classic short-range communication device is perfect for discreet operations." It's not a commlink and it doesn't use the Matrix. It's available with Signal 1 to 6. That's all we really know. Because it's not on the Matrix, we can maybe assume it's not a Peripheral Node (although, it's possible).

What this means is that you might be able to argue that the normal Matrix actions of Capture Wireless Signal could work, but Detect Hidden Nodes certainly can't. What's not clear is if you can Capture without having first located the device (crap!). … It's not clear how do detect them. smile.gif

You *can't* Intercept Traffic, because that's for nodes.
You can't hack them, either.
You *can* Jam them.

So, AFAIK that's the RAW problem. Personally, and as house rule, I'd let Detect Hidden Node be used to detect their wireless traffic. You still couldn't Intercept or hack them, but you could detect their traffic, and listen in (probably after decryption, because they should be encrypted).

Another option is the Radio Signal Scanner. This thing is a walking contradiction, but oh well. The fluff says, "The radio signal scanner locates and locks in on radio traffic from RFID tags, wireless networks, and other transmitters, and is especially useful at capturing signals originating from nearby. The scanner can also measure a signal’s strength and pinpoint its location." Sounds great! Except the crunch is, "Treat the scanner as if it were a Sniffer program (p. 234) equal to its rating; see p. 229 for rules on detecting and intercepting wireless signals." On p229, you'll see the Sniffer is only used for Capture Signals, not locating traffic (that's Scan). *shrug.

Basically, you should be able to Sniff through the airwaves and notice traffic from Micro-Trans units (probably only while they're actually talking, so short bursts could help). Then, you could Capture and listen in. That's pretty handy, but it's peanuts compared to what you can do to an insufficiently secure commlink. smile.gif

Now, *locating* wireless devices is great… unless you're trying to use SR4's rules. AFAIK, there aren't any. You can Trace a user to their origin node, which, if wireless, gives you a 50m radius. Telematics systems say they can track wireless, but not how. Ditto the Radio Signal Scanner. frown.gif
Zyerne
Simsense vertigo seems like a bad buy for a combat oriented character, you'll lose the bonus from smartlinks.
Karoline
There is no reason you shouldn't be able to intercept traffic from those things. Regardless of if they are part of the matrix or not, they are wireless devices sending out information. There is also no reason it shouldn't show up as a node just like any other.

Nowhere in the description does it say that it interacts with other wireless devices in any way that differs from the way that any other wireless device interacts with them.

It is basically just a subvocal mic, earbud, and highly dedicated commlink. Remember that in 2072 anything and everything that is an electronic device is a node, and everything that is a node, is (in a way) a commlink, and anything that is a commlink, can be hacked.

If you can find something in that one peragraph description that says "This doesn't interact with the matrix and wireless signals in general like every other wireless device in existance." then I'll believe that it can't be hacked or intercepted or anything else. Until then it is an electronic device that uses wireless, and so is just as susceptible to being messed with by a hacker as much as if you ran the communication through your commlink.
Yerameyahu
It's not a commlink at all. It's a totally separate non-Matrix radio system. It's not a node, because nodes are Matrix entities.

Not all electronics are nodes. Just 99% of them. wink.gif "A device in this case is defined as any hardware with Matrix connectivity enabled, whether wired or (far more commonly) wireless."
Karoline
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Nov 10 2010, 04:28 PM) *
It's not a commlink at all. It's a totally separate non-Matrix radio system. It's not a node, because nodes are Matrix entities.

Not all electronics are nodes. Just 99% of them. wink.gif "A device in this case is defined as any hardware with Matrix connectivity enabled, whether wired or (far more commonly) wireless."

Can you point out in that entry where it says it doesn't have a matrix connection? Or can you point out where in intercept traffic it says that it can only intercept matrix traffic? Thus making walkie-talkies (which is what a micro-transceiver is)the most secure systems on the planet because a hacker can't touch them.
Fauxknight
QUOTE (Karoline @ Nov 10 2010, 04:25 PM) *
There is no reason you shouldn't be able to intercept traffic from those things.


Pretend its a laser communication device, now how is your commlink going to pick up the signal. A commlink is a matrix device capable of picking up matrix communication, it needs special equipment to be able to read other types of signals.
Karoline
Except that it isn't a laser communication device, it is a wireless (EM waves) communication device, which means that it can be picked up by intercept traffic by the very nature of how it communicates.
Yerameyahu
You can look up the Intercept Traffic question yourself. It describes nodes and routing. You can't *intercept* a walkie-talkie, but you can *capture* it. Intercept doesn't mean 'picked up'; that's Capture. I was very clear about this earlier, I believe?

Micro-Trans's *are* more secure. They're also more limited: they're limited to Signal range (commlinks are global), they're limited to audio (commlinks are full VR/AR/whatever), and they're limited to audio communication (commlinks are computers, trids, cameras, etc.).
sabs
commlinks+datajack or trodes = telepathy
micro-trans have that silly subvoc touch hand to neck thing.
Fauxknight
QUOTE (Karoline @ Nov 10 2010, 04:43 PM) *
Except that it isn't a laser communication device, it is a wireless (EM waves) communication device, which means that it can be picked up by intercept traffic by the very nature of how it communicates.


Thats not pretending very well now is it. My walkman doesn't pick up and play TV signals.
sabs
Your walkman also can't process sensory input into fully immersive VR. It doesn't hold the entirety of the Library of Congress, and it can't do any of the other 7 billion things a commlink can.
Yerameyahu
Technically, a commlink can't pick up TV signals either, if they existed. It's not a tricorder, it's a Matrix device. It's just that nearly everything *is* on/via the Matrix.
Karoline
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Nov 10 2010, 04:45 PM) *
You can look up the Intercept Traffic question yourself. It describes nodes and routing. You can't *intercept* a walkie-talkie, but you can *capture* it. Intercept doesn't mean 'picked up'; that's Capture. I was very clear about this earlier, I believe?

Oh, right, got intercept and capture mixed up. Thought they were the same thing actually.
QUOTE
Micro-Trans's *are* more secure. They're also more limited: they're limited to Signal range (commlinks are global), they're limited to audio (commlinks are full VR/AR/whatever), and they're limited to audio communication (commlinks are computers, trids, cameras, etc.).

I don't know that they're that much more secure. The only real difference between this and a commlink would be that a commlink can (but doesn't have to) go through other devices that a hacker can use to intercept. Of course, I'm still not convinced that a micro-transceiver can't use the matrix.

But, I'll certainly give you that they generally would be used for direct communication, and thus require the hacker to capture instead of intercept, though the two are highly similar.

QUOTE
Thats not pretending very well now is it. My walkman doesn't pick up and play TV signals.

That's a really really bad comparison. A better comparison is that your Radio set to 101.1 doesn't pick up signals at 100.1, but it can.
Yerameyahu
But his radio can't pick up signals at 201.1. smile.gif
Karoline
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Nov 10 2010, 05:02 PM) *
But his radio can't pick up signals at 201.1. smile.gif

Yeah, but another radio couldn't send at 201.1 either. And in this case we have commlink and a device very similar to a commlink both sending out the signal. I find it exceedingly hard to believe that a commlink couldn't pick up a micro-transceiver's signal.

Like I said before though, I do agree that you'd need to capture, not intercept. Still not convinced that the micro-transceiver can't network through the matrix, or that it is unhackable.
Yerameyahu
It's *not* very similar to a commlink. And it's unhackable because it's not a computer.
Karoline
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Nov 10 2010, 05:12 PM) *
It's *not* very similar to a commlink. And it's unhackable because it's not a computer.

Says who?

Edit: If my toaster is a hackable computer, a micro-transceiver should be as well.
Yerameyahu
Your toaster is a Peripheral Node, because you put it on the Matrix. Your electric razor *isn't*… unless you bought one with Matrix access. smile.gif

The Micro-Trans is from SR3. It's a walkie-talkie (two-way radio).
scarius
hey everyone, thanks for the help and the talk about teh commlinks... so i have returned from the drawing board and this is what i now have

soilder

human

body: 3
agility: 6
reaction: 6
strength: 3
charisma: 3
intuition: 4
logic: 3
willpower: 4
edge: 5
initiative: 10
initiative pass: 3
essence: 1.70

skills
athletics (group): 3
outdoors (group): 3
automatics: 4, aussalt rifles: 2
dodge: 3
etiquette: 1, military: 2
fist aid: 3
heavy weapons: 3
pistols: 3
throwing weapons: 2
unarmed combat: 2

knowledge skills
safe houses: 3
corporate security: 4
corporate security tactics: 4
military tactics: 5
small unit tactics: 4

language skills
english: n
japanese: 4

contacts
fixer: loyalty: 2, connection: 3
street doc: loyalty: 2, connection: 3
military buddy: loyalty: 4, connection: 3

negative qualities
SINner (standard): -5
simsense vertigo: -10
scorched: -5
sensitive neural structure: -5

cyber/bio ware
wired reflexes: 2
muscle toner: 2
dermal plating: 2
platelet factories

gear
knife

yamaha pulsar
5x spare clips
20x stick-n-shock

ares preditor 4
quick draw holster
5x spare clips
silencer
80x explosive rounds

ares alpha
sling
6x spare clips
250x regular ammo
6x high explosive grenade launcher grenades

4x flash bangs
4x fragmentation grenades

regular clothing
armour vest
nonconductivity: 6
lined coat
nonconductivity: 6

sun glasses
low light vision
flare compensation
smart link

commlink
erika elite
iris orb
basic user program
subvocal mic
earbuds: 3
audio enhancement: 2
sound select filter: 1

4x fake licenses: 4
2x fake sins: 4
reppeling gloves
microwire rope
climbing gear
micro flare launcher
micro flares
gecko tape gloves
medkit: 4
basic doc wagon
4x months low


i feel that this is a bit of a better character then what i first put up, thanks again for all of your help
sabs
can you wear an armored vest AND a lined coat with only a 3 body?
Fauxknight
Once you have unarmed and athletics you don't really need the dodge skill. Unarmed replaces your ability to avoid melee attacks and gymnastics can be used the same as dodge agaisnt ranged attacks. Use the points saved to beef other skills up rather than picking up a new one, the fewer higher-rated skills you start with the more karma you save in the long run.

Again Simsense Vertigo is bad for your smartlinked weapons. If you keep the quality move to non-smartlink based bonuses like laser sights or tracer rounds.

The Yamaha Pulsar doesn't use stick-n-shock ammo, it uses 'taser darts' (at the bottom of the ammo list) which do the same thing for cheaper. It also doesn't have a detachable magazine, clip by SR terminology, which means you can't buy spare clips for it, you have to load every round by hand directly into the weapon.

Other than that it looks pretty solid. I like the short and sweet cyber/bio list that still covers all the basics. Body/Armor total is a tad low for a soldier, but your decent reaction some of your cyber/bio help in that area.

QUOTE (sabs @ Nov 11 2010, 10:23 AM) *
can you wear an armored vest AND a lined coat with only a 3 body?


My guess is its an either or thing. The lined coat to hide stuff under or the armored vest to have somewhat hidden armor
Nifft
QUOTE (scarius @ Nov 11 2010, 11:17 AM) *
agility: 6
reaction: 6
Does this mean augmented, or unaugmented?

QUOTE (scarius @ Nov 11 2010, 11:17 AM) *
negative qualities
SINner (standard): -5
simsense vertigo: -10
scorched: -5
sensitive neural structure: -5
Simsense Vertigo means you can't benefit from a Smartlink, which is usually the cheapest extra 2 gun dice in the game.

QUOTE (scarius @ Nov 11 2010, 11:17 AM) *
yamaha pulsar
5x spare clips
20x stick-n-shock
Tasers don't shoot stick-n-shock.

QUOTE (scarius @ Nov 11 2010, 11:17 AM) *
armour vest
nonconductivity: 6
lined coat
nonconductivity: 6
Why both?
Yerameyahu
Simsense Vertigo is important for more than Smartlinks. AR is *everything* in SR4. smile.gif
Fauxknight
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Nov 11 2010, 03:14 PM) *
Simsense Vertigo is important for more than Smartlinks. AR is *everything* in SR4. smile.gif


Right because

AR is your map at the mall.
AR is your menu at the restaurant.
AR is your 'Warning this is a secure zone!' mesage.

Everything the normal person does at normal places is aimed at AR users.

That doesn't mean a character can't get away with this particular negative quality, just that it negatively affects a street samurai who is likely using AR to manage his PAN (which can include his gun, his cyber, and his gadgets) far worse than the rat shaman who doesn't even know how to use a commlink.
klinktastic
I like prejudice (specific, moderate) to add some flavor. Pick something like technomancers, Trolls, or whatever else tickles your fancy.
sabs
I like to pick up two Prejudice (specific, moderate)
People who hate people for their culture.
The Dutch.
scarius
thanks again for the help.

i have dropped simsense vertigo and added actively prejudiced to hackers.
i have also dropped dodge and made my automatics: 5, pistols: 4, unarmed combat: 3, throwing weapons 3.
i added the last point to make my fixer more loyal.

i was also thinking of dropping a point from my cha, to put some where else just dont know yet.

but i do have one more question though, whats is this skinlink that people have been saying to get, also what does it cost/do?
Yerameyahu
What counts as a 'hacker'?

Skinlink is 50 per device. It's wires without wires.
Thanee
QUOTE (scarius @ Nov 11 2010, 04:17 PM) *
body: 3


That's a bit low for a combat character. You should at least have a 4 there. As it also limits your armor, higher Body pays off twice.

QUOTE
negative qualities
SINner (standard): -5
simsense vertigo: -10
scorched: -5
sensitive neural structure: -5


In general it is better to find some more interesting negative qualities, not just stuff that does not seem to affect you much for free points. wink.gif

Negative qualities are a great way to define some character flaws, which make the character as a whole more fun in play.

Bye
Thanee
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (sabs @ Nov 11 2010, 08:23 AM) *
can you wear an armored vest AND a lined coat with only a 3 body?


Indeed you can, but why would you want to do so? wobble.gif
Karoline
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Nov 14 2010, 10:32 PM) *
Indeed you can, but why would you want to do so? wobble.gif

Doesn't the encumbrance stack? Would be a rather huge penalty.
Thanee
Actually no. Only the highest armor rating applies, and this is also used to calculate encumbrance.

Bye
Thanee
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