Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Cheap ways to annoy the Horrors
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (PoliteMan @ Nov 17 2010, 12:36 AM) *
it would probably work simply because everyone believes it works.

Magic doesn't work like that.

~J
Manunancy
QUOTE (PoliteMan @ Nov 17 2010, 03:30 AM) *
3) It's very hard to make Horror's a realistic threat on the Matrix. There's no way for their magic to function online so they're essentially just another user, another user ignorant of the past 70 years of Matrix history with no experience using the system.
4)This is one of the few areas of Shadowrun where there is a powerful central authority, GOD, which could legitimately take direct action to control the threat.


If I remember right, some Horrors need little more than you reading their name to be able to mark you. Mark one geek, then his buddies from the computer club, then it's spamfest time.... Nasty.

At least one horror has demosntrated an ability to control and alter machinery - at least medieval/renaissance level. With plenty of drones and machines around, it can get really nasty really fast. Especially if it can safely lurk in the astral while messing with things on the material plane.
Hagga
QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Nov 17 2010, 05:39 AM) *
Forgot to throw this one out there:



As for HMHVV, it's unclear; Ghouls exist in Earthdawn and are Horror-created, but appear to share few traits with Shadowrun Ghouls (they're explicitly undead, and while they carry a deadly virus or toxin it appears to simply kill rather than ghoulifying). References to Vampires exist, but I can't find a stat block or proper description and the one reference I can find calls them "true undead" in contrast with the critter under discussion.

~J

More that the traits of the virus seem like something the Horrors would use - or a step toward Verjigorm's great vision for the world.
Kagetenshi
Huh. "Orks would become savage", well, canon Wendigo have generally been portrayed with some degree of refinement but I could see how one could consider the whole "engaging in cannibalistic feasts" thing to qualify.

Interesting. I'd always thought that he was simply obsessed with Dragons, thanks for pointing out otherwise.

~J
Stormdrake
Someone mentioned that ED versions of ghouls and vampires are not the same as those in SR. What are the diffrences? I ask this because I have always thought SR vampires were a little on the weak side which would make sense if they were not the real thing. This plays intto my argument that the Horrors would defeat humanity or force them to hide in fear (again) by turning our own against us.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Stormdrake @ Nov 17 2010, 11:00 AM) *
I ask this because I have always thought SR vampires were a little on the weak side which would make sense if they were not the real thing.

Huh? SR vampires are devastating, what with the Enhanced Physical Attributes giving them +Essence to all of their Physical attributes, with an Essence max of 12. A typical vampire (7 Essence) will have effective Body 10, Quickness 12 with x5 running multiplier, Strength 10, and Reaction 8+2d6 (and remember, they use Reaction to attack) and have the ability to use weapons. At maximum (that is, after one feeding) you're looking at Body 15, Quickness 17, Strength 15 and Reaction 10+2d6, so 10 dice base on attacks.

QUOTE
Someone mentioned that ED versions of ghouls and vampires are not the same as those in SR. What are the diffrences?

I can't find any proper writeup of vampires in ED, but the text is clear that both of them are in fact undead, in contrast to living but virally modified beings. Ghouls in ED do not have the ability to create more Ghouls, being instead Horror-created; they have a magical toxin, but this simply deals damage (it doesn't even Ghoulify victims it kills). It also deactivates on the death of the Ghoul instead of having a completely separate existence like HMHVV. They do have what looks to be a comparable weakness to sunlight. They do not appear to have any power of Astral Sight or dual nature.

That's what I have.

~J
Stormdrake
Kagetenshi,
4th ed SR nerfed that. The Vampires can take essence they have drained and feed it into an attribute for a bonus that lasts a couple turns. The 3rd ed vampires are what you are describing. That is unless someone changed them back when I was not looking.
Kot
QUOTE
If Horrors can be daunted by puzzles, you don't even need fancy footwork involving the Matrix or orichalcum or whatnot, just put some really good pure mathematicians in a room together and get them to put together a problem that combines some of the nastier issues of the field. The sort of stuff that, while technically solvable, tends to take about one to three generations and one to a dozen geniuses each to work out.

Those weren't puzzles per se - they were desinged to draw the attention of Horrors and lure them into the 'puzzle', which caused them to lose their 'concentration', and be forced to leave Earth. They obviously needed to put some effort into staying, but that was a big amount of their mental capacity only in the case of lesser Horrors. For example, Wormskulls breched many Kaers, because of their cleverness and patience...

QUOTE
Yes and no. Many failed kaers are the result of a horror slipping through and marking someone, after which it becomes a long slow descent into the mouth of madness. The beauty of it being also that the horror can use you as the point of origin for LOS for its abilities, spells, etc. Once you are marked most horrors will wait until the perfect time to reap the maximum misery. Did you make the mistake of going home? Enjoy waking up the next morning to a village full of corpses, or a brother who is also marked, but the horror enjoys tormenting him in a more direct fashion so you suffer more. It goes on and on. Horror Mark is the single most vicious ability they have.

And in some cases, kaer resident magicians used their flawed techniques without knowledge of consequences, creating a link for the Horrors, or even tried to 'sneak a peek' on what's happening outside (via Astral Projection, which is pretty much suicidal in ED, due to the corruption of Astral Space and Horrors residing in it).
And a Horror can use his abilities on the Marked one, even if he runs away. Range is a factor, but being 1000 km away simply doesn't let the Horror use damaging powers on you - anything else is still working, so he can easily drive you crazy, and work from there.

QUOTE
Also, my main problem with Matrix Horrors is that the Matrix simply isn't old enough to support that kind of development, especially Matrix 2.0. I have trouble believing they'd even KNOW it existed, it's all invisible unless you're already a user. If there are Matrix horrors:
1) What, did they just sit around the last few invasions bitching about having nothing to do AGAIN?
2) In, say, the 1980s did a bunch of Horror's just look up and think "Man, I should really get into electronic data transfer. Especially wireless data transfer. That gonna be big."
3) It's very hard to make Horror's a realistic threat on the Matrix. There's no way for their magic to function online so they're essentially just another user, another user ignorant of the past 70 years of Matrix history with no experience using the system.
4)This is one of the few areas of Shadowrun where there is a powerful central authority, GOD, which could legitimately take direct action to control the threat.

Horrors don't need physical form. And then can use a Marked or Possesed (yes, some of them can do that too) human with a commlink, or better, datajack. There are ways for Horrors to use a Marked person's skills and knowledge, or turn him into an obedient abomination (Horror Construct)... As i wrote - some of the Horrors could use the 'trix as just another means of getting their wictims. What exists in the Matrix by the year 2072 is enough do drive people insine, or kill them dead. Who says Horrors won't use that? They're smart in a alien, insidious and evil way. They figured how to work against powerfull magic wards and traps, they'll learn how to surf the Matrix too. Who says they can't coerce a doc into implanting them a commlink and datajack?

QUOTE
1. In some ways this just reminds me of the Blood Elves, and their radical solution. While Tech and Magic don't mix yet, in my mind it is only a matter of time.
2. I agree I don't think there are horrors on the matrix YET. They kind of have to get here first.
3. Someone mentioned that ED versions of ghouls and vampires are not the same as those in SR. What are the diffrences?
4. Where did Bone Crown rear his ugly head? And I can't be the only one who thinks HMHVV *reeks* of the Horrors.
5. More that the traits of the virus seem like something the Horrors would use - or a step toward Verjigorm's great vision for the world.
6. Magic doesn't work like that.
7. Huh. "Orks would become savage", well, canon Wendigo have generally been portrayed with some degree of refinement but I could see how one could consider the whole "engaging in cannibalistic feasts" thing to qualify.

1. Don't worry. In a hundred years tops elves start sprouting thorns all over the world. If some of the IE and their allies don't find a way to avert the Ritual of Thorns magic, that is.

2. No, there aren't. Probably. As there probably aren't any other kind. Yet. The few attempts of invasion were supposedly thwarted.

3. Ghouls are different in being true undead. Dead and raised as walking corpses with apetite for flesh and nasty poison. And their minds are mostly degenerated to the level of cunning critters with understanding of the world on metahuman level - a bit like some feral ghouls from ED.

4. There was mention of a Horror trying to get in, and he worked just like the Usurper. Check the threads on the official forums. And there supposedly was another attempt like that somwhere in the arctic...
I would seriously bet on it, since Yrsgranthe appeared already, and he's just a bit more powerfull (but doesn't have that much in the way of smarts and manipulation).
And HMHVV could be a leftover from the last Scourge, a memetic form of Corruption given form. And there are no vampires of any kind in ED, only Horrors, undead, spirits, and all kinds of abominations that work in a similar way.

5. Oh, Big V doesn't need that. He was powerfull enough to stay there during the downcycle before the Age of Legends. He is something more than just a badass Horror... So there might be some truth in the draconic creation myth (in which all comes from V, including dragons).

6. It does, if you take ED magic theory into account. Blood Magic (the 'not-evil' kind) and Disciplines both hold their power through use. In the former case, Namegivers (Metahumans) believing in their power and using them reinforced the True Pattern of Blood Magic enough for it to work. In the case of Disciplines, when many, many Adepts followed the same way, it was formed into a Pattern. That's why in 1st edition of Earthdawn some Disciplines didn't have higher circles - their pattern wasn't strong enough. So, yes. As even in SR Will is fundamental for magic, and believing in something is involved too (like traditions - they're the new Disciplines).

7. Current SR Orks are as 'savage' as their ED versions. So, no worries here.


QUOTE
If I remember right, some Horrors need little more than you reading their name to be able to mark you. Mark one geek, then his buddies from the computer club, then it's spamfest time.... Nasty.

You mean Nebis? Yeah, but that wasn't a true mark - only a kind of symapthethic Nebislink to the careless NebisvictimNebis. And itNebis wasntNebis even NebisNebis his Nebis True NebisNebis NameNebisNebisNebisNebis...

Ascalaphus
QUOTE (PoliteMan @ Nov 17 2010, 04:30 AM) *
3) Nuke the Metaplanes. Imaginationland.
Couldn't resist.

Anyway, about Technomancers and Magic. From Emergence I got the impression it wasn't really a magical phenomenon, more a bizarre kind of psychosomatic adaptation to a wireless society.

The similarity in game mechanics was probably intended to make the game mechanics easier, by recycling the magic mechanics. Also, to make it easier to run matrix, physical and astral combats at the same time. It doesn't have to mean technomancers are magical.
Inncubi
QUOTE
You mean Nebis? Yeah, but that wasn't a true mark - only a kind of symapthethic Nebislink to the careless NebisvictimNebis. And itNebis wasntNebis even NebisNebis his Nebis True NebisNebis NameNebisNebisNebisNebis...


That is the best argument I have ever seen. There is nothing, with the matrix, metahumanity can do against the horrors.
Imagine that in SPAM.
sabs
QUOTE (Ascalaphus @ Nov 17 2010, 07:45 PM) *
Couldn't resist.

Anyway, about Technomancers and Magic. From Emergence I got the impression it wasn't really a magical phenomenon, more a bizarre kind of psychosomatic adaptation to a wireless society.

The similarity in game mechanics was probably intended to make the game mechanics easier, by recycling the magic mechanics. Also, to make it easier to run matrix, physical and astral combats at the same time. It doesn't have to mean technomancers are magical.


That would have been fine.. if they'd not included Sprites, and Deep Resonance Realms.

Or Echos

and threading of software in your brain? REALLY?

Or modifying your nervous system so you can move faster
or take a skillsoft and convert it into a "brain program'"

Kagetenshi
QUOTE (Stormdrake @ Nov 17 2010, 01:37 PM) *
4th ed SR nerfed that. The Vampires can take essence they have drained and feed it into an attribute for a bonus that lasts a couple turns. The 3rd ed vampires are what you are describing.

Huh, didn't know that. Must admit I mostly just wasn't able to resist jabbing at the fact that once again someone forgot the edition tag on the thread.

QUOTE (Kot @ Nov 17 2010, 02:34 PM) *
there are no vampires of any kind in ED

They may not be statted out anywhere, but they're explicitly mentioned as a kind of "true undead" in contrast to Demiwraiths in the core book. Their existence is thus implied.

~J
Kot
QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Nov 17 2010, 09:01 PM) *
They may not be statted out anywhere, but they're explicitly mentioned as a kind of "true undead" in contrast to Demiwraiths in the core book. Their existence is thus implied.

In 1at ed, maybe. There were even in some mechanical examples in the companion. But that was rubbish - there were no rules for them. And so they were probably scrapped, because of WoD Vampire. nyahnyah.gif
Ascalaphus
QUOTE (sabs @ Nov 17 2010, 09:50 PM) *
That would have been fine.. if they'd not included Sprites, and Deep Resonance Realms.

Or Echos

and threading of software in your brain? REALLY?

Or modifying your nervous system so you can move faster
or take a skillsoft and convert it into a "brain program'"


None of that requires magic. It could be magic, but it doesn't have to be.

Some of the echoes are a bit wonky, I'll admit that. But part of the premise of technomancers is that the brain can alter/reprogram the body, particularly the nervous system.

The Deep Resonance doesn't have to be magical; it can be an emergent phenomenon that occurs from the intended interactions between various matrix-organization algorithms. It's literally an emergent phenomenon. This is pretty much a staple of cyberpunk; it doesn't have to involve magic. See also Dark Internet and Deep Web.

Sprites may be either completely created by the technomancer himself, as a highly-advanced semi-intelligent complex form, or somehow invoked from the Deep Resonance. It doesn't have to magical; it's code, just weird code.

Emulating skillsofts - that's a logical extension of being able to reprogram your nervous system and being able to use complex forms. You translate a controller program for one set of hardware (skillwires) to another set of hardware (nervous system).

The complex forms are the other core premise: that the brain can compose functional machine code directly. That's a tough premise, but this is a sci-fi game too.

What is somewhat lacking is a difference between the ability to use complex forms, and the ability to emit Signal. But I don't think there's any real proof that technomancy is magical.
The Shuhite
QUOTE
1. Don't worry. In a hundred years tops elves start sprouting thorns all over the world. If some of the IE and their allies don't find a way to avert the Ritual of Thorns magic, that is.


Isn't the whole thorn thing called chronic osteocuspis in Year of the Commet?
Kot
QUOTE (The Shuhite @ Nov 17 2010, 09:54 PM) *
Isn't the whole thorn thing called chronic osteocuspis in Year of the Commet?

Maybe. I didn't read that one yet. And if it causes thorns to grow from an elf's bones, and cause him neverending, excruciating pain that dampens all of his emotions, then yes.
Vermithrax
For those looking to find Vampires in Earthdawn, look in the second edition book Barsaive in Chaos p108.

Most ED players loathe 2nd edition but there are a few gems in that cesspool, you just gotta dig deep.
Sengir
QUOTE (Ascalaphus @ Nov 17 2010, 09:25 PM) *
But I don't think there's any real proof that technomancy is magical.

And given that corps and everybody else pulled all the stops with regard to TM research, I'd dare to claim that somebody got the smart idea to use a Glo-Wand over have a mage check for astral signatures. If Resonance was just another form of magic, (in-universe) people would have figured out long ago.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (The Shuhite @ Nov 17 2010, 03:54 PM) *
Isn't the whole thorn thing called chronic osteocuspis in Year of the Commet?

It's pointedly similar, but I'm not sure it's the same.

QUOTE (Kot @ Nov 17 2010, 03:56 PM) *
Maybe. I didn't read that one yet. And if it causes thorns to grow from an elf's bones, and cause him neverending, excruciating pain that dampens all of his emotions, then yes.

Not just elves; it's a variety of SURGE that causes "razor-sharp bony deposits [to] erupt from the skeletal structure and puncture through the skin". There's a horribly painful acclimation period, after which the character "become[s] accustomed to living with pain" and gains the equivalent of Pain Resistance 3. The spikes grow back if removed. Emotional effects are not explicitly described.

~J
sabs
So.. here's what I suspect happened.

1) Blood Elves enact said ritual.
2) Mana levels go up and then down and down some more
3) Blood Elves start having children that are humans. (but carry the 'elven' dna markings)
4) Mana comes back, people with sufficient elven 'dna' start having elven children
5) because of cross breeding during the 5th age, some people have blood wood elven DNA. Not enough to be born Elven, but enough to have the Ritual Of Thorns being triggered on them.
Stormdrake
So when the mana level gets high enough why would elves around the world suddenly have thorns? I know what they did in the Blood Woods in ED but why would it pop up again without the ritual?

If it is following blood lines or some such thing would you not also end up with humans, dwarves, orcs and even trolls with thorns? Several thousand years of breeding is gonna spread that problem all over the place.

Answers got posted while I was typeing smile.gif Still wanna know how the ritual would still have an affect now though.
Faelan
QUOTE (Kot @ Nov 17 2010, 02:34 PM) *
1. Don't worry. In a hundred years tops elves start sprouting thorns all over the world. If some of the IE and their allies don't find a way to avert the Ritual of Thorns magic, that is.


Actually only the IE's might have to deal with this. Newborns in the Blood Wood had to be subjected to the ritual. The only ones spontaneously sprouting thorns might be Alachia, Aithne, and the rest of the old Blood Wood crew.

QUOTE
2. No, there aren't. Probably. As there probably aren't any other kind. Yet. The few attempts of invasion were supposedly thwarted.


Which is exactly what I said, so I find your comment somewhat confusing.
Angelone
Bonecrown or at least a horror matching his description was defeated by Ryan Mercury, who I submit is the cheapest way to defeat the horrors. All you have to do is have brown nipples say the word.

As for horrors on the matrix I imagine something like the crash virus.
sabs
I cant believe BoneCrown went down that easy
HunterHerne
I realize everything about Technomancers is only speculation, but it seems that resonance is a different flavour of magic. Like it's out of phase with the other magic properties. I'd like to bring up the point about Assensing technomancers. It is possible to figure out they are technomancer from assensing, but it requires 5 hits on an assensing test. That isn't exactly reliable, as bioware is more noticable.

I would also like to mention Protosapients. Instinct driven code that isn't exactly common, but not exactly unheard of. Are they code that has coalesced and awakened from the awakened nature of the world? By all accounts, their is no reason for their existance. At least publicly, all corps display no knowledge of the creatures, even in secret files (though maybe not the most secret of files), except acknowledging they might exist. It is my belief they are like some of the awakened animals that have no (current) real world analogy.

If these creatures, and maybe even resonance, have been around for a long time, but in the 2060's it was just becoming accessable, why shouldn't some form of Horror already exist there, waiting for the resonance to become thicker in human matrix work? (Resonant pools and shallows)
Kot
QUOTE (sabs @ Nov 17 2010, 10:34 PM) *
I cant believe BoneCrown went down that easy

Not went down. They just slammed the door shut before he got in... nyahnyah.gif

QUOTE (Faelan @ Nov 17 2010, 10:29 PM) *
Actually only the IE's might have to deal with this. Newborns in the Blood Wood had to be subjected to the ritual. The only ones spontaneously sprouting thorns might be Alachia, Aithne, and the rest of the old Blood Wood crew.

Which is exactly what I said, so I find your comment somewhat confusing.

Hmm... I read something about the Ritual's echo manifesting randomly. Maybe i misinterpreted that one.

And sorry for that. I might get a bit lost in there....
sabs
Oh
well that's probably okay then
Sengir
QUOTE (sabs @ Nov 17 2010, 10:34 PM) *
I cant believe BoneCrown went down that easy

Well, it required some serious elven cleavage to defeat him. Oh, a blood magic-dragon soul-cyberzombie-something was also somewhat involved, but mostly it was tits. Elven tits, with big brown nipples. wink.gif


@Hunter:
QUOTE (HunterHerne @ Nov 17 2010, 10:41 PM) *
It is possible to figure out they are technomancer from assensing, but it requires 5 hits on an assensing test.

And, like you said, so is bioware. Or a lot of other stuff which certainly is not magic wink.gif

QUOTE
I would also like to mention Protosapients. Instinct driven code that isn't exactly common, but not exactly unheard of. Are they code that has coalesced and awakened from the awakened nature of the world? By all accounts, their is no reason for their existance.

There are AIs which develop human intelligence levels (although their intelligence is still different), so why should feral intelligence levels be impossible?

QUOTE
If these creatures, and maybe even resonance, have been around for a long time, but in the 2060's it was just becoming accessable, why shouldn't some form of Horror already exist there, waiting for the resonance to become thicker in human matrix work? (Resonant pools and shallows)

Sure, the resonance could have developed ever since humans stored data in electronic networks - but how should a Horror have come over at that time? AFAIK Horrors are not "born" on earth, but have to come over from their place.
HunterHerne
Who says the Resonance is an effect of data stored electronically? Maybe, like the astral plane, the digital infromation highway is just how the unsubmerged view the resonance. Granted, this wouldn't necessarily lead to an invasion by the Horrors we know about. But some other version of alien consciousness that views the matrix of our Earth as something to be distrupted, or toyed with. Maybe even colonize, as the Insect spirits want. The matrix could be our accidental stumbling onto an out of phase magic source, one that gets "closer" to our phase when the awakening occurs, but prior to humans messing around with digital technology, wasn't able to interract. This also leads to the assumption that IF there is something, they will know just as little about us, as we do of them.

Also, wild Sprites have been encountered. These seem to appear much like spirits do in the meat world, whether "Summoned" or created randomly.
Saint Sithney
QUOTE (sabs @ Nov 15 2010, 05:03 PM) *
You must be a Shadowrun player that came to the game after FASA went under perhaps?

ED = SR is the main preface of them even writing EarthDawn.

That's like being a D&D player who only ever played Forgotten Realms getting upset that Greyhawk isn't real D&D.


Yes, but even SR3 ≠ SR4, so why would ED = SR4?

Rules and fluff change with every passing year. All we have is speculation involving the patchwork logic of multiple games-writers.

As such, when anyone tries to do the ED = SR thing, it just doesn't work. ED hasn't been tied into SR for over half a decade. When that changes, then these threads will have some base to them. Until then, you'll have the "SR4 has rules; they say this" camp and the "Pre-SR4 had rules for this, so when this happens again it will happen this way" crowd.

Meanwhile, Catalyst, as far as I can tell, is busy trying to wipe all the high-fantasy meta-plot out of existence so that there can be more wars and giant robots.
Sengir
QUOTE (HunterHerne @ Nov 17 2010, 11:34 PM) *
Who says the Resonance is an effect of data stored electronically? Maybe, like the astral plane, the digital infromation highway is just how the unsubmerged view the resonance. Granted, this wouldn't necessarily lead to an invasion by the Horrors we know about. But some other version of alien consciousness that views the matrix of our Earth as something to be distrupted, or toyed with. Maybe even colonize, as the Insect spirits want. The matrix could be our accidental stumbling onto an out of phase magic source, one that gets "closer" to our phase when the awakening occurs, but prior to humans messing around with digital technology, wasn't able to interract. This also leads to the assumption that IF there is something, they will know just as little about us, as we do of them.

The matrix wasn't already there and mankind somehow gained access to it. The matrix was created by humans, and like so many human inventions showed unexpected behaviour "in the wild".
Kot
QUOTE (Saint Sithney @ Nov 17 2010, 11:37 PM) *
Yes, but even SR3 ≠ SR4, so why would ED = SR4?
(...)
As such, when anyone tries to do the ED = SR thing, it just doesn't work. ED hasn't been tied into SR for over half a decade. When that changes, then these threads will have some base to them. Until then, you'll have the "SR4 has rules; they say this" camp and the "Pre-SR4 had rules for this, so when this happens again it will happen this way" crowd.

It's not that SR=ED. Its more like ED->our world->SR. Times change, magic changes, rules change...
HunterHerne
I`m not saying the matrix was there, and humans gained access, I`m saying maybe the resonance was there, and the matrix acted as a bridge to access it. The comparison with the astral plane to the matrix was the closest I could come up with as a facsimile. The fact is, whether or not the resonance was there, or a creation of the Matrix, it doesn`t actually affect the meat world on it`s own, but has to go through (semi-)intelligent code lifeforms, or organic commlinks in order to affect the rest of us.
Saint Sithney
QUOTE (Kot @ Nov 17 2010, 02:52 PM) *
It's not that SR=ED. Its more like ED->our world->SR. Times change, magic changes, rules change...


Licenses split.. wink.gif

I just pray that they don't tie SR and Battletech history together.
I know they want to...

I can feel the driving need for "this war" and "company _____" and all that other BT stuff just pouring from the senior devs at Catalyst.
Cheops
QUOTE (Saint Sithney @ Nov 17 2010, 10:37 PM) *
Meanwhile, Catalyst, as far as I can tell, is busy trying to wipe all the high-fantasy meta-plot out of existence so that there can be more wars and giant robots.


Wrong. Coleman was pushing high fantasy the most. If his stance has changed that was recent. He even wrote a synopsis for a storyline that brought Thera back! DotA is certainly not technology focused. And Coleman is still the guy in charge. Check out Ancient History's released notes to see the toned down version of where things were headed.
Ascalaphus
QUOTE (HunterHerne @ Nov 17 2010, 11:41 PM) *
I realize everything about Technomancers is only speculation, but it seems that resonance is a different flavour of magic. Like it's out of phase with the other magic properties. I'd like to bring up the point about Assensing technomancers. It is possible to figure out they are technomancer from assensing, but it requires 5 hits on an assensing test. That isn't exactly reliable, as bioware is more noticable.


If Resonance means your nervous system and mental activity is different, then that would also logically show up on Assensing. It's no proof.


QUOTE (HunterHerne @ Nov 17 2010, 11:41 PM) *
I would also like to mention Protosapients. Instinct driven code that isn't exactly common, but not exactly unheard of. Are they code that has coalesced and awakened from the awakened nature of the world? By all accounts, their is no reason for their existance. At least publicly, all corps display no knowledge of the creatures, even in secret files (though maybe not the most secret of files), except acknowledging they might exist. It is my belief they are like some of the awakened animals that have no (current) real world analogy.

If these creatures, and maybe even resonance, have been around for a long time, but in the 2060's it was just becoming accessable, why shouldn't some form of Horror already exist there, waiting for the resonance to become thicker in human matrix work? (Resonant pools and shallows)


An emergent phenomenon; put enough very clever algorithms together, feed them data, look away for a while, and something interesting may develop. Artificial Intelligence doesn't really have to look like our intelligence, and it might evolve in a very different direction. Actually, it's very reasonable to expect it to evolve in very different directions; our intelligence is a result of the environment in which Homo Sapiens evolved, but that's a very different environment than the one from which AIs are evolving.



QUOTE (HunterHerne @ Nov 18 2010, 12:34 AM) *
Who says the Resonance is an effect of data stored electronically? Maybe, like the astral plane, the digital infromation highway is just how the unsubmerged view the resonance. Granted, this wouldn't necessarily lead to an invasion by the Horrors we know about. But some other version of alien consciousness that views the matrix of our Earth as something to be distrupted, or toyed with. Maybe even colonize, as the Insect spirits want. The matrix could be our accidental stumbling onto an out of phase magic source, one that gets "closer" to our phase when the awakening occurs, but prior to humans messing around with digital technology, wasn't able to interract. This also leads to the assumption that IF there is something, they will know just as little about us, as we do of them.

Also, wild Sprites have been encountered. These seem to appear much like spirits do in the meat world, whether "Summoned" or created randomly.


None of this proves or even makes it very likely that magic and resonance are related. All of the similarities make sense if you think the game designers liked having similar rules (because those are easier and less work to develop.)

I'm not saying Resonance can't be magic; just saying there's no proof nor even very strong circumstantial evidence. Also, ghosts in the machine, AIs, hidden layers in the web and so forth are all cyberpunk concepts. I suspect they were added to be the mysterious side of the Technology side of the traditional Magic vs. Technology split.

Not everything big in Shadowrun is ultimately linked to the Horrors/Earthdawn.

It's quite possible that there are Bad Things in the Deep Resonance that have nothing to do with the Horrors. Maybe the whole Resonance is something created by humanity. Maybe if you erased all the big Matrix archives, it would disappear, because it's actually based in the physical world. On the other hand, maybe it's really a different dimension which has been accessed somehow because of the information complexity of the Matrix.

Lots of possibilities for the GM. If you wish, you could have a big shootout between the Horrors and the Deep Resonance entities over the physical world as a prize.
HunterHerne
That, is actually a great idea. I may have to impliment that in some form for an over-arching story-line in my game(s).
Neurosis
QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Nov 15 2010, 02:28 PM) *
Only positive BC can be aspected. BC in space, from lack of life, most surely is negative BC (void or ebb)


QUOTE
Void Womb
A creature with this power treats a negative background count (such as from a mana void or ebb) as an aspected background count aspected toward their magical tradition.


Just made that up, obviously.

Maybe the horrors come from fucking space.

Maybe I'm just evil. : )
Angelone
I wonder if Mercury and crew ended up horror marked could partially explain some things.
Wounded Ronin
Dammit, someone needs to make a campaign already. Or even a wh40k style wargame campaign.
Sengir
QUOTE (HunterHerne @ Nov 17 2010, 11:55 PM) *
I`m not saying the matrix was there, and humans gained access, I`m saying maybe the resonance was there, and the matrix acted as a bridge to access it.

Hmm, I must admit the idea that the Deep Resonance is somewhere "out there" and just uses the matrix as a burning bush didn't occur to me before.
Christian Lafay
Very Mage: The Ascension.
sabs
I've been thinking.
What if Technomancers are Adepts (this explains alot of their physical echo abilities) with the very first instance of a thread weaving talent/power.

They are able to weave a thread to the Pattern of the Matrix, and through that be able to do all sorts of weird stuff.

Complex Forms are just special threads smile.gif
Ascalaphus
QUOTE (Christian Lafay @ Nov 19 2010, 09:48 PM) *
Very Mage: The Ascension.


The Matrix is actually a magical mountain with enlightenment at the top?
Christian Lafay
QUOTE (Ascalaphus @ Nov 19 2010, 09:08 PM) *
The Matrix is actually a magical mountain with enlightenment at the top?

That resides on a meta-plane, yes. wink.gif
WyldKnight
If its in a metaplane then why are there already resonance planes and why can't mages get to them? If the Resonance/Dissonance are supernatural entities then it seems they don't want anything to do with magic since their "prophets" can't have anything to do with it. Not to mention the fact that an AI gave similar abilities to people which means the process can't be completely supernatural. Heck, it could just be aliens which would make more sense then magic since an AI could give just about the same powers to people.
Wounded Ronin
Well that idea would appeal to computer programmers.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (WyldKnight @ Nov 19 2010, 03:19 PM) *
If its in a metaplane then why are there already resonance planes and why can't mages get to them?

Why can't mages get to the Elemental Plane of Metal?

~J
Ascalaphus
QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Nov 19 2010, 10:23 PM) *
Why can't mages get to the Elemental Plane of Metal?

~J


Some of them can. Check with your Tradition to learn more about exclusive access offers on the metaplanes.
WyldKnight
QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Nov 19 2010, 01:23 PM) *
Why can't mages get to the Elemental Plane of Metal?

~J


Where does it say they can't?
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012