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Medicineman
She's still far away from being a professional and she's not supposed to ! (shurely later but not right now)
but the Way is the Goal and she's only 20(more like 30-40 with some important Skills ands Spells lacking) Karma away from being ...acceptable wink.gif

with a philosophical Dance
Medicineman
Grinder
Whatever. As long as you and your group are having fun...
Medicineman
QUOTE (Grinder @ Jan 18 2011, 03:32 AM) *
Whatever. As long as you and your group are having fun...

Thats the Default and I wouldn't want it any other Way biggrin.gif

with a Fundance for All
Medicineman
Stahlseele
DFA: The Drakening!
Drake Hardened, Granite-Skin-Hardened, Mystical Armor.
Bone-Works. Fly up up and away. Become a living Stuka/Bomb.
Divebomb people with MG's and grenade launchers.
And if all else fails, with your own body O.o
Seth
Well thanks all of you for your help

I think I am coming away with the conclusion that Drakes are just not very good. If I GM one I think I will make them a bit better. I wonder what changes people would suggest. I'll kick off with the following:

  • I would raise the armours (mystic and hardened) from 4 to 6.
  • I would add +2 to the value and maximum of agility and reaction in drake form


What would your list be?
Draco18s
Actually, I'd make changes based on each of the three options (Western, Eastern, and Ocean).

The easiest though is to just drop their cost to 45 BP, rather than 65.

But the reason I'd make individual changes is that the eastern drake's ability to hold guns* far outweighs the western's....uh....strength boost? and the sea drake's ability to swim.

*And bonus agility to boot.
Omenowl
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jan 18 2011, 08:28 AM) *
Actually, I'd make changes based on each of the three options (Western, Eastern, and Ocean).

The easiest though is to just drop their cost to 45 BP, rather than 65.

But the reason I'd make individual changes is that the eastern drake's ability to hold guns* far outweighs the western's....uh....strength boost? and the sea drake's ability to swim.

*And bonus agility to boot.


The sea drake can also breathe water.
Nyost Akasuke
I think spit may be a more appropriate word.
Draco18s
QUOTE (Omenowl @ Jan 18 2011, 07:57 PM) *
The sea drake can also breathe water.


And the others breath fire, so it's not like "easterns get hands, sea-dragons get Water Breath, and Westerns get bulk" (and even THAT isn't right either, as the western's bulk is the equivalent of the bonus agility the easterns get!)
Doc Byte
QUOTE (Omenowl @ Jan 19 2011, 01:57 AM) *
The sea drake can also breathe water.


First thing to do: Spend 15 Karma points and change the elemental attack from fire to sound. Might be handy underwater, especially considering the fact that water has a higher density than air. cool.gif
Omenowl
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jan 18 2011, 07:14 PM) *
And the others breath fire, so it's not like "easterns get hands, sea-dragons get Water Breath, and Westerns get bulk" (and even THAT isn't right either, as the western's bulk is the equivalent of the bonus agility the easterns get!)


They still get a breath weapon of fire as default. I mean sea drakes can respirate air or water indefinitely. The drake also confers enhanced senses and mystic armor (the animal power). The character can increase his mystic adept armor. This could give him an armor of up to 10 for a starting character.
Draco18s
QUOTE (Omenowl @ Jan 18 2011, 09:06 PM) *
They still get a breath weapon of fire as default. I mean sea drakes can respirate air or water indefinitely. The drake also confers enhanced senses and mystic armor (the animal power). The character can increase his mystic adept armor. This could give him an armor of up to 10 for a starting character.


I was comparing the different drakes to each other, so the Mystic Armor Critter Power isn't one of the things one of them gets and the other doesn't.

QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jan 18 2011, 09:28 AM) *
Actually, I'd make changes based on each of the three options (Western, Eastern, and Ocean).

But the reason I'd make individual changes is that the eastern drake's ability to hold guns* far outweighs the western's....uh....strength boost? and the sea drake's ability to swim.

*And bonus agility to boot.

Omenowl
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jan 18 2011, 08:09 PM) *
I was comparing the different drakes to each other, so the Mystic Armor Critter Power isn't one of the things one of them gets and the other doesn't.


Sorry thought you meant water as an elemental attack. The mystic armor was to simply put that a drake still get some form of protection and other abilities for the 65 bp.
Nyost Akasuke
I thought it would be neat to play an assassin-like Feathered Serpent with a penchant for stabbing and poisoning people.. goin' Shelob on them.

..But then this thread showed me what Drakes were like.
Udoshi
Hmn.


Can we use a combination of Drake and SURGE to stat TROGDOR?

Surge should apply to metahuman and drakefor equally, right? Extra arms, perhaps? Or some combination of Deformity/Parapalegic/Genefreak?
Omenowl
QUOTE (Udoshi @ Jan 18 2011, 09:39 PM) *
Hmn.


Can we use a combination of Drake and SURGE to stat TROGDOR?

Surge should apply to metahuman and drakefor equally, right? Extra arms, perhaps? Or some combination of Deformity/Parapalegic/Genefreak?


Yes, but if you go for surge III you need to get a concept for a character rather than a random collection of abilities.
Draco18s
QUOTE (Udoshi @ Jan 18 2011, 10:39 PM) *
Surge should apply to metahuman and drakefor equally, right? Extra arms, perhaps? Or some combination of Deformity/Parapalegic/Genefreak?


They apply equally. We think. There's really no reason for them not to (except in rare, rare cases where its one of those things that Just Doesn't Make Sense).

QUOTE (Omenowl @ Jan 18 2011, 11:07 PM) *
Yes, but if you go for surge III you need to get a concept for a character rather than a random collection of abilities.


Not really. SURGE Mk3 just means you should be building towards a goal and not just picking up "whatever." Mks 1 and 2 don't give you enough to HAVE a theme (but you CAN still spend more of your Pos/Neg quality points for more than what the quality grants).
Yerameyahu
How can you say 'not really' and then agree with everything? smile.gif It says that you should work out a theme with the GM. Obviously, everyone ignores this for powergaming, but it's just a restatement of the fact that *everything* is GM-approval.
Nyost Akasuke
QUOTE (Udoshi @ Jan 18 2011, 07:39 PM) *
Hmn.


Can we use a combination of Drake and SURGE to stat TROGDOR?

Surge should apply to metahuman and drakefor equally, right? Extra arms, perhaps? Or some combination of Deformity/Parapalegic/Genefreak?



Extra arms? Only really useful on an Eastern Dragon, if I read it correctly.
Unless you actually are trying to make TROGDOR.
Draco18s
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jan 19 2011, 12:43 AM) *
How can you say 'not really' and then agree with everything? smile.gif It says that you should work out a theme with the GM. Obviously, everyone ignores this for powergaming, but it's just a restatement of the fact that *everything* is GM-approval.


It was midnight. My brain was clearly not working right.
Yerameyahu
Personally, Shiva arms on a non-Eastern drake would give you extra legs in drake form. biggrin.gif
Draco18s
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jan 19 2011, 03:19 PM) *
Personally, Shiva arms on a non-Eastern drake would give you extra legs in drake form. biggrin.gif


I could see it both ways. Never seen a dragontaur?
Nyost Akasuke
Well, I think only Feathered Serpents don't have arms.
So any dracoform could take Shiva Arms.. but only the Eastern could utilize guns and such with them
Stahlseele
Fuck opposable thumbs.
Personalized Grip and you don't need them anymore.
Draco18s
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jan 19 2011, 04:55 PM) *
Fuck opposable thumbs.
Personalized Grip and you don't need them anymore.


I don't think that works that way...
Stahlseele
As long as you can yurl up your fingers/claws into your hand, you can grip stuff good enough.
Grip with the lower 2 or 3, pull trigger with the remaining one . .
Doc Byte
Or simply use the magic fingers spell...
Nyost Akasuke
Lol. Well, at least by RAW.. only Easterns have enough dexterity to manipulate objects that finely.

Yeah, you could use magic fingers.. but I think we're strictly talking about the advantages/disadvantages of drakes here.
Draco18s
I now have an intense desire to make a western drake who "wears" drone(s) in an Iron Man kind of way. Put a big gun on his back.
Hehe.
Nyost Akasuke
Iron Drake?
Stahlseele
Iron Drago?
Omenowl
From a GM standpoint even with dexterous hands I would require the weapon to be made specifically for the drake form and relatively unusable in another form. Recoil, aiming, etc all have to be factored into a weapon design for a creature.

As for the shiva arms that is a good question. Do they come with hands or not?
Stahlseele
Well . . IS it an Arm without a Hand?
Nyost Akasuke
My impression on reading the quality was yes.. they come with hands...

...The same hands the creature in question already possesses.. so a Troll won't grow elven hands.
I didn't see anything about creatures with no arms already available.
Brazilian_Shinobi
Eletronic firing + trigger removal + trode net for the win
Stahlseele
QUOTE (Brazilian_Shinobi @ Jan 20 2011, 01:28 AM) *
Eletronic firing + trode net for the win

Also, strapping such weapons to the fore . . arm? O.o
It would keep the . . hand? free too!
Yes, it's a Hands . . ? -Free gun.
That could come in . . handy?
Brazilian_Shinobi
Seriously?
Seriously?

You are under arrest for the unauthorized use of a bad pun.
Draco18s
QUOTE (Brazilian_Shinobi @ Jan 19 2011, 07:28 PM) *
Eletronic firing + trigger removal + trode net for the win


You missed this didn't you?

QUOTE (RC p75)
While in dracoform, a drake character cannot speak (though
other vocalizations are possible, from a growl to a hiss) and lacks
the manual dexterity to operate most metahuman equipment. A
character in dracoform also cannot use ‘trode nets designed for
metahumans (including nanopaste trodes)
.
Nyost Akasuke
I suppose you could get a trode net designed for dracoforms.
Doesn't one of the Great Dragons have a great interest in the Matrix.. Cele...something? Forgot his name.
So I'm sure you can find one.. probably gonna cost a pretty penny though, and probably won't be easy to find.
Draco18s
QUOTE (Nyost Akasuke @ Jan 19 2011, 08:16 PM) *
I suppose you could get a trode net designed for dracoforms.
Doesn't one of the Great Dragons have a great interest in the Matrix.. Cele...something? Forgot his name.
So I'm sure you can find one.. probably gonna cost a pretty penny though, and probably won't be easy to find.


Celedyr.
Eliohann however had a datajack.
Omenowl
QUOTE (Nyost Akasuke @ Jan 19 2011, 05:57 PM) *
My impression on reading the quality was yes.. they come with hands...

...The same hands the creature in question already possesses.. so a Troll won't grow elven hands.
I didn't see anything about creatures with no arms already available.



This was an interesting issue where I wanted a naga with shiva arms. The point was to get something that could wield swords. Just the same form as you could see in the OWoD weresnake battleform.
Nyost Akasuke
Celedyr, that's right.
He's a Great Dragon I'd definitely want to know more about.. more specifically, what he's planning for the Matrix.
Just waiting for him to spawn some crazy ass Technomancer GD. I'm pretty sure that breaks a few rules, but I don't care.

Naga with Shiva Arms? Yeah.. see, I don't know how that would work. My impression of the quality was that it adds ''extra'' arms... and how can you have ''extra'' of something you don't have to begin with?
Omenowl
QUOTE (Nyost Akasuke @ Jan 19 2011, 08:03 PM) *
Celedyr, that's right.
He's a Great Dragon I'd definitely want to know more about.. more specifically, what he's planning for the Matrix.
Just waiting for him to spawn some crazy ass Technomancer GD. I'm pretty sure that breaks a few rules, but I don't care.

Naga with Shiva Arms? Yeah.. see, I don't know how that would work. My impression of the quality was that it adds ''extra'' arms... and how can you have ''extra'' of something you don't have to begin with?


Well it is addition rather than multiplication. 2+2+2=6 for metahumans vs. 0+2+2 for 4 arms with double shiva arms
Draco18s
Never seen some depictions of gorgons?
Brazilian_Shinobi
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Jan 19 2011, 09:43 PM) *
You missed this didn't you?


Yeah, I did miss, but as others have said, you could have a trode net designed for dragons embarrassed.gif (I know, lame excuse...)
Nyost Akasuke
QUOTE (''Runner's Companion'')
Certain rare changelings, and one metavariant genetic expression,
grant a character an additional set of arms that extend
from modified shoulder joints. The character may hold and carry
double the number of objects in her hands than would normally
be possible.


Do Nagas have shoulder joints? If they do, I say go for it. Unless this quality is saying that it ''creates'' the modified shoulder joints?
Yerameyahu
There's no reason it couldn't, except for it's lame. smile.gif This is an important reason, and I wouldn't allow it.

As for the dragons I commented on earlier, Nyost Akasuke understood my opinion: you get extra front legs, but they're not 'arms' in the sense of the Eastern dragon (hands).
Draco18s
QUOTE (Brazilian_Shinobi @ Jan 19 2011, 09:23 PM) *
Yeah, I did miss, but as others have said, you could have a trode net designed for dragons embarrassed.gif (I know, lame excuse...)


It requires bending the rules just a little. There are no trode nets statted for drakes (book doesn't even mention if such things exist, nor provides an idea of the cost/availability of such an item).

Same with AR Gloves. No reason a western dragon couldn't use those in some sense. Afterall, its just gestures and there's no reason why the software couldn't be tuned to the "less dexterous" gestures a western's paws would be capable of.
Nyost Akasuke
I can't imagine that, with all the influence and power (and money) many Great Dragons have.. they haven't coerced/paid some metahuman into making Dracoform trodes and AR gloves
Draco18s
QUOTE (Nyost Akasuke @ Jan 20 2011, 12:08 AM) *
I can't imagine that, with all the influence and power (and money) many Great Dragons have.. they haven't coerced/paid some metahuman into making Dracoform trodes and AR gloves


True, but they'd be harder to find, no? I can't imagine there'd be a great demand for them.
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