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Sephiroth
QUOTE (Ol' Scratch @ Feb 27 2011, 01:15 AM) *
I'm going to go ahead and assume that you don't mind us looking at your sheet then? (I try to avoid that normally out of respect, and also because it can be fun learning these things IC instead.)

The first thing I noticed is that your concept seems to feel more like a Mystic Adept rather than a Magician, if not a flat-out Adept. Have you considered toying around with those instead? I mean, most of your spells seem focused on bolstering your body or mind, and you're clearly concentrating on being a melee bad ass. I know for a fact that Seth is open to new ideas and reinterpretations of existing rules to make them fit your concept better, so maybe you can ask him about changing a few adept powers around. For instance, making Elemental Strike so that it works with Improved Blades so that you can give your spear that mystical vibe, and/or tapping into previous editions and allowing Elemental Strike to work with Distance Strike so that you can use it to attack people at range, too. This would then let you focus on honing your physical side, trim down your skills, and otherwise give you a bit more focus as well as a unique feel that makes you stand out amongst the other immortals.

Heck, there used to be an adept power created by one of the original designers of the game (who's name slips my mind right now) that gave adepts access to a spell. If you could find that on the Internet and try to convert it to 4th Edition's rules, that'd be another way you can do the above while retaining some of the concepts you have in mind, such as casting illusions and whatnot.

This is all based on the first impression I got strictly from the rules you posted. I haven't read over your concept and don't know what your history is like, so maybe a Magician makes a lot more sense. If so, here's a few other things I noticed and suggest looking into a bit more critically:

Quickening. The two spells you're using it with can be just as functional inside a Sustaining Focus, and going that route actually makes you a little more versatile as those foci (which are limited to spell categories rather than specific spells) can be used for other things if you need to. This is especially true with the Health one, as you have a number of sustainable spells in that category. On a related not, I'm unsure of the shorthand you're using with your current foci. Do you have two, with one being a Force 3 Weapon/Force 5 Sustaining stacked one, and the other being a Force 8 Weapon Focus? Or are they one in the same? I'm assuming its just one, but if you have two like that you may wanna rethink it. Also, how do you go about transporting a scythe like that? I imagine we're still going to have to worry about security checkpoints and the like, at the very least in the Sixth World era. Just something to consider.

You do have a few Active Skills that seem weird. For example, why is Cybertechnology so high? You don't seem to have any abilities or skills to compliment it. And why are so many of your magical skills so low? But I guess that's more a consequence of 4th Edition's Attribute dice = Skill dice mechanics. Still seems odd to me for a dedicated magician.

Other than that, I don't know. Your numbers don't seem to be in excess of 450 to me, but I'm pretty terrible with math. Your Attributes and Active Skills only come to 337 Build Points, meaning you have a hefty 113 left to blow (which even with your spell list leaves you with a good 400,000+ nuyen). Coupled with all the freebies, including wealth and contact points... well I dunno. Seems off somehow. smile.gif

I have considered the Mystic Adept route, but I think a magician using spells to cover his physical bases is more thematically appropriate for my character concept and I believe that it is possible to make it work within the extra power level which we have been given.

With the Quickening thing, I want to quicken those two spells specifically 1) because speed and mobility is a major part of my character's modus operandi, and a force 9 Levitate can't be sustained inside a force 5 sustaining focus (also it's quite a bit better than a mere force 5 levitate), and 2) My amount of sustaining foci is limited, even if I try to get another one or two. It looks like I'm going with the Path of the Wheel tradition, which does not have spirits of man, so I'd like to keep my sustaining foci available for things like Increase Body/Reflexes/Reaction.

Cybertechnology I made that high so that I could get rating 4 muscle toner and still be able to use my Restricted Gear qualities elsewhere, like the foci. And it is one stacked Force 8 focus, by the way. Sorry for the lack of clarity. The low magical skills have been victims of my trying to keep the BP balance in check thus far. frown.gif

pbangarth
My stats are out there for everyone to see. Please, feel free to pick things apart. God knows what I've done wrong. question.gif
pbangarth
I'm not explaining myself well, sorry. Sephiroth, the thing I am getting at is that the Increase [Attribute] spells will disappear the moment you project astrally, because they are Physical spells, and only Mana spells will work on the astral. Quickening them is expensive and will also disappear with the spells the fist time you project.
Sephiroth
QUOTE (pbangarth @ Feb 27 2011, 01:37 AM) *
My stats are out there for everyone to see. Please, feel free to pick things apart. God knows what I've done wrong. question.gif

Ol' Scratch's question gave me another related nifty idea that would need clarification from Seth and you all.

You are a free spirit, and by the rules of spirits (putting aside for the moment that FSPC's do not completely follow the NPC Spirit rules), they get all their skills equal to their Force. Now, I am not espousing that this apply to your active skills or anything like that, but it has gotten me thinking: You can raise your Logic all the way up to your Force of 9, and your General History knowledge skill is also equal to your Logic according to Seth. So, if you could permissibly raise your Logic above the 6 or 7 cap typical of skills, and still have it apply to your General History, I feel like that would be a very important advantage to have in a game with as much emphasis on history as this one. eek.gif Thoughts?
Sephiroth
QUOTE (pbangarth @ Feb 27 2011, 01:41 AM) *
I'm not explaining myself well, sorry. Sephiroth, the thing I am getting at is that the Increase [Attribute] spells will disappear the moment you project astrally, because they are Physical spells, and only Mana spells will work on the astral. Quickening them is expensive and will also disappear with the spells the fist time you project.

Why would the spells permanently disappear the moment I astrally project? Their not functioning on the astral, I can handle, but why would the spells not 'stay' with my PC's body, so to speak, or act like implants for a drake and just fail to be present as long as I'm in the astral, but return back in the meat world?
Ol' Scratch
I imagine General History is being treated with its own special rules. I dunno though.

Also, Seph, any spirit can sustain a spell for you up to its Force. The spell just has to be from the same category that the spirit is linked to (which is why they're listed that way in each tradition's description). Spirits of Man are used for casting spells and, for some reason, only spells you already know. So it doesn't really matter in that regard.
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (Sephiroth @ Feb 26 2011, 11:35 PM) *
Cybertechnology I made that high so that I could get rating 4 muscle toner and still be able to use my Restricted Gear qualities elsewhere, like the foci. And it is one stacked Force 8 focus, by the way. Sorry for the lack of clarity. The low magical skills have been victims of my trying to keep the BP balance in check thus far. frown.gif

I dunno, man. 24 Build Points just for that is not only a massive waste (I'd rather just have lower Toner and upgrade later in the game -- there is a medical professional in the group you know wink.gif), but kinda cheesy to boot. I mean, is there an actual reason that he's nearly a world-level expert on the subject?
pbangarth
QUOTE (Sephiroth @ Feb 27 2011, 12:45 AM) *
Ol' Scratch's question gave me another related nifty idea that would need clarification from Seth and you all.

You are a free spirit, and by the rules of spirits (putting aside for the moment that FSPC's do not completely follow the NPC Spirit rules), they get all their skills equal to their Force. Now, I am not espousing that this apply to your active skills or anything like that, but it has gotten me thinking: You can raise your Logic all the way up to your Force of 9, and your General History knowledge skill is also equal to your Logic according to Seth. So, if you could permissibly raise your Logic above the 6 or 7 cap typical of skills, and still have it apply to your General History, I feel like that would be a very important advantage to have in a game with as much emphasis on history as this one. eek.gif Thoughts?

Yes, I considered that, and thought it would be kind of cool to have all the mental stats high, but I just didn't have the BP. I have INT high because of his artistic bent, the knowledge points, the number of skills he has that link to it, Initiative, and Drain. That last may be less important now, once I figure out Seth's magic damage idea. WIL is high for resistance, money, and Drain (again less important now). CHA is high for the Relationships, Contacts and general faciness. That left LOG out in the cold. Mandala seems to me to be much more an intuition than logic kind of guy.

But nothing is carved in stone yet.
pbangarth
Just a reminder, any time another team member wants to cast a spell into a Focus, or whenever actually, Mandala can add 9 dice to the Test through Aid Sorcery.
Sephiroth
QUOTE (Ol' Scratch @ Feb 27 2011, 01:54 AM) *
I dunno, man. 24 Build Points just for that is not only a massive waste (I'd rather just have lower Toner and upgrade later in the game -- there is a medical professional in the group you know wink.gif), but kinda cheesy to boot. I mean, is there an actual reason that he's nearly a world-level expert on the subject?

I know it's a stretch, trust me. frown.gif Being many thousands of years old, I'm sure all of our characters have had more interests and passions come and go than an entire human family would have in a lifetime. I'm operating under the assumption that something like Cybertech would be no different, save that it'd be something he's immersed himself in to a farther extant than other interests he's had in the past.

But you make a good point that it's using up a lot of BP.
pbangarth
He knows it 'cause he wants to. Works for me.
Seth
QUOTE (pbangarth @ Feb 27 2011, 05:41 PM) *
Quickening them is expensive and will also disappear with the spells the fist time you project.


I'm not that mean. The spells stay on the body. If you pay karma for something, it should be very good. I'm also allowing you to repair quickened spells. I've modified the first post's section on rule clarifications

As far as BioTech group goes: In earth dawn it includes crystal tech. In the dark ages it covers prosthesis design and manufacture (those wood peg legs and metal hooks).
Seth
QUOTE (Ol' Scratch @ Feb 27 2011, 05:50 PM) *
I imagine General History is being treated with its own special rules. I dunno though.

Also, Seph, any spirit can sustain a spell for you up to its Force. The spell just has to be from the same category that the spirit is linked to (which is why they're listed that way in each tradition's description). Spirits of Man are used for casting spells and, for some reason, only spells you already know. So it doesn't really matter in that regard.


General history is gift from me: you lived though it you get some points in it. More specific histories you can buy. To be honest I haven't thought much about how history skills will work, but I suspect they will be as important as a skill like "seattle street gangs", or "shadowrunner hangouts".

While spirits are sustaining spells, they are at -2 on anything else they do. Comes in too flavors:
1. for a number of combat rounds equal to their force.
2. for a number of days equal to their force, and they hate you a lot as you are slowly torturing them to death. (They loose a point of force a day IIRC)
Seth
QUOTE (Ol' Scratch @ Feb 27 2011, 03:47 PM) *
Yeah, that's really confusing and sounds kind of crazy to boot. Getting rid of overcasting seems to be make a lot more sense if that's your issue. I mean, what if you don't actually want to completely obliterate your target, and how can other forms of attack keep up? And more importantly, how can people defend against things like that?

There are been a few threads on this topic since I joined dumpshock. The only consensus seems to be that the damage spells don't work. However in the interests of not turning this into another "damage spells are broken thread" I'll remove the house rule. If it actually turns into a problem, then we can do something about it.

I have edited the original post to remove this.

QUOTE
Also, did you still want to know what Alacia has to "convince" us to help her with this mission?


Yes I should have remade that request:
@Pbangarth: pretty sure she has that copy of your formula.
@Ol'scratch: Maybe she has one of your 2 missing foci



Seth
QUOTE
Seth, are Knowledge Skills exempt from the limitation of rating 6 and 5 skills? It's always been a bit hazy to me in the default rules

In the standard rules IIRC you can have 1 knowledge skill at 6, or 2 at 5. Its the same as for active skills, but you could have 1 active skill at 6, and 1 knowledge skill at 6.

I hadn't though about this at all. Sure: Have as many knowledge skills as you want at 6.
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (Seth @ Feb 27 2011, 01:25 AM) *
@Ol'scratch: Maybe she has one of your 2 missing foci

Yes, that's what I was considering; I had already written up a nice description of it just in case. I just wasn't sure if you still wanted us to offer up ideas in that regard. I'm thinking about using the weapon focus, which used to be his Heartblade back in the Fourth World, but whose threading has slowly unwoven over the Fifth World to its current state. Does that work for you?
Seth
QUOTE (Ol' Scratch @ Feb 27 2011, 08:31 PM) *
Yes, that's what I was considering; I had already written up a nice description of it just in case. I just wasn't sure if you still wanted us to offer up ideas in that regard. I'm thinking about using the weapon focus, which used to be his Heartblade back in the Fourth World, but whose threading has slowly unwoven over the Fifth World to its current state. Does that work for you?

That looks very good
Seth
No one has commented on the Security briefing. I recommend a quick read
Ol' Scratch
I read over it, but didn't see much to say out of character. Do you intend for us to begin plotting now? And were these intercepted Matrix files that Zero commented on, or personal information that he hacked into and commented on directly in regards to us?
Seth
Yes I am not that familiar with the etiquette of starting a game. My thoughts were that some of you probably want to do some information gathering about the brief. I guess I should hold off on that until the game stats. I'll hold off on answering the question you asked until then

pbangarth
As Mandala I will focus on the magic end of things in tactical discussions. Though, it looks from the transcript as if there is some kind of AI at play in the pyramid? Based in Room 27A, maybe?

One thing that immediately pops into Mandala's consciousness is the existence of tissue samples and astral signatures for some of the magical security staff. Would these allow Mandala to get an astral understanding of their signatures? With that, he could scam any wards they put up. Actually, all of our magicians could do so.

OK, about the overcasting, it looks as if Mandala has one of the higher Drain pools, especially if he can Absorb some magical energy, so we will have to watch to see if what he does is overpowering. Force affects not only damage, but also area of effect, and one way he might use a whole shitload of mojo is to nail a large group of opponents with a stunball. Another spell, and perhaps more important to our mission, is shattershield. Mandala may have to overcast in order to overcome a honking big astral barrier. I don't know... Aztechnology pyramid, blood magic to reduce Drain (Can you say, "Acatlozin Ahexotl", anyone?)... there could be some nasty barriers here. Like around that room 27A.

I rejected Quickening for Mandala because I thought most spells one might want to Quicken would dissipate in the astral. I will give some thought to that metamagic, but at this point I don't relish the idea of wholesale change to the PC.

And I bet Camaxtli Cenyaotl (Hmm... Cenayotl sounds more Nahuatl to me.) is in there just for Mandala, huh?
Seth
You can use masking to appear as one of the mages whose aura you know. This should work for getting past wards: if you are good enough...mu ha ha

QUOTE
Aztechnology pyramid, blood magic to reduce Drain (Can you say, "Acatlozin Ahexotl", anyone?)... there could be some nasty barriers here. Like around that room 27A.

You think? More evil laughs

QUOTE
And I bet Camaxtli Cenyaotl (Hmm... Cenayotl sounds more Nahuatl to me.) is in there just for Mandala, huh

Personalisation. Thats what makes missions memorable. I suggest you don't try and solo him ork.gif

@Ol Scratch: You were asking about knowledge skills. It looked a good list. Perhaps "4th age remnants" could be added.
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (Seth @ Feb 27 2011, 10:21 AM) *
@Ol Scratch: You were asking about knowledge skills. It looked a good list. Perhaps "4th age remnants" could be added.

I've seen that mentioned a few times in these threads and I keep forgetting to ask: Is this an established skill in the game, and if so where can I find it? If not, what does it revolve around? I've never heard of it before this game.

Also I saw that you were looking for suggestions on how to make Watcher Spirits better at their task. A house rule we've used for the longest time is that they can be summoned at any Force, just like any other spirit, but with the caveat that the conjurer can only summon a combined Force of (Charisma x 2) at any give time. Thus a conjurer with Charisma 4 can have one Force 8 Watcher, two Force 4 Watchers, eight Force 1 Watchers, or any combination thereof active at any given time. To keep them from being abused in combat, the Attack Dog service is changed so that they simply whiz around and annoy combatants (giving you a Friends in Melee bonus) but are wholly unable to attack anyone. Instead, their Astral Combat skill is replaced by the Infiltration and Shadowing skills.

I believe we changed the rules for Drain with them, too, but I don't have my notebook handy to double check.

Regardless, it's worked fairly well for us, and makes them a valuable resource for magicians without upping the magician's combat prowess.

That said: Yikes. I had this surreal dream last night that was inspiration for a character for this type of campaign. It's driving me nuts now, cause I keep scribbling down ideas on how to make him work and it all looks really promising. Stupid dreams...
Sephiroth
4th Age Remnants is not an established skill, because almost no shadowrunner PC's are even going to know that there was a world of magic before the current one, and they certainly won't know how to identify leftover things and people from the 4th world because they wouldn't even know that there are any.

That reminds me. Pbangarth, your 4th Age Remnants is listed as an active skill, but I get the impression from Seth that it's a knowledge skill. Congratulations, you just got more BP to shift around.

As for the watcher thing, I kinda like being able to use watchers as crappy astral attack dogs. Another thing you could do is give a watcher bonus dice for its Search power equal to its summoner's Magic, and maybe equal to half its summoner's Magic for assensing (because otherwise it'll fail epically most of the time when placed in a guard dog role, due to its awesome 2 dice for assensing).
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (Sephiroth @ Feb 27 2011, 02:05 PM) *
As for the watcher thing, I kinda like being able to use watchers as crappy astral attack dogs.

Not much changes in that regard, actually. In higher powered campaigns in particular, watchers can't do any damage to a target. If they do hit (using 2 dice to attack, meaning 1/3ish times they're going to critically glitch), they only do one point of damage. A completely unarmored astral form with only a Body of 3 has an extremely good chance of resisting that even without defending against it in any way. Considering that you wouldn't even need watchers helping you out in that circumstance, and it's even more pointless. The only time you'd need the backup, such as fighting a powerful free spirit or projecting mage, all they could provide is the Friends in Melee bonus. Which, as you'll note in my suggestion above, is still a 'service' they can provide.
Ol' Scratch
Okay, here's a list of some things I'd like to do as far as leg work goes. I'm not sure how much time we have, so I'll probably have to streamline it a bit. But for now, here's the list in order of priority/desireability.
  • Language: Spend an hour or two speed-reading "Aztlander for Dummies" off the Matrix, and watching a number of Aztechnology speeches and the like so that Ambrose can pick up the language, accent, and dialect suitably enough. (Using this Linguistics and Multi-Tasking adept powers, the latter of which so I can do other things at the same time.)
  • Disguises: I'm going to assume I had the foresight to bring a few doses of my Elixir of Metamorphosis with the idealized human form with me. Pending your response below, I'd also try concocting one or two more using the ritual samples included with the datafiles.

I also wasn't really happy with my Knowledge Skills so I went and rebuilt them from scratch. I think this selection is a lot better. But if any of you have any suggestions, I'd love to hear them. Also, despite Seth being really generous in this regard, I decided to stick to the same limits as Active Skills.

Knowledge Skills
[ Spoiler ]
Seth
4th Age Remnants is a knowledge skill. Nice thing about knowledge skills is you can just invent them smile.gif Its mostly the skill of knowing (and recognizing) people that have been around since the 4th age.

QUOTE
My personal goal would be to focus on finding those signatures the datafiles

You already have them, I will go back and make the briefing a little clearer. One of the council's lackeys masked himself as each of the three mages, and you studied him.

I didn't respond to your question earlier. The briefing you have is your copy of the briefing notes you were given as flew to Aztlan (on a plane that was flown by a shadowrunning / smuggling team recruited for the job). I'd like to roleplay your response to them as flashbacks in the game.
Ol' Scratch
Regarding 4th World Remnants, cool. I was looking for a way to cover that angle anyway (I was using "History of the Fourth World" with a Personal specialization, but that didn't feel right).

And doubly fantastic with the signatures. Wait, does that mean we have a ritual sample, too? :O Can I use a portable alchemy kit to brew an Elixir of Metamorphosis for one or more of them during the flight, or would I need my full lab for that? I'll revise my plan above based on the response. I wasn't sure what was going on, truth be told. :)
Seth
The material samples are sadly not included in the security briefing. Now if someone had the metamagic "sympathetic link"...that could be exciting.

As an aside it might be interesting if some of you are get ritual magic: as a magical group you could do some fairly serious mojo.
Ol' Scratch
Drats, foiled again. biggrin.gif
Ol' Scratch
Regarding Ritual Spellcasting: Are you going to be employing a lot of house rules to make this work for us? If my memory isn't completely abandoning me, I believe everyone has to be of the same tradition (an easy house rule to get past) and they have to have a magical lodge equal to the number of participants and the lowest skill level cannot be less than the number of people participating. So if six of us wanted to perform Ritual Spellcasting, we'd need a minimum Lodge of rating 6 and everyone would have to have Ritual Spellcasting 6 or higher.

So all around, it's not very practical for a large group. But we can certainly have a small subgroup that's gifted in that arena. Assuming no house rules, of course.
Seth
Ritual spellcasting the recipe:

  • All members must be of the same tradition, or members of a magical group
  • Have a primary caster with an ok amount of ritual spellcasting (2+)
  • All other casters need ritual spell casting 1 (cannot default to it)
  • I person needs "great ritual" from street magic (cannot be the primary caster, but he is the reason it works)
  • Get as big a lodge as you can, up to the level of the primary casters ritual spell casting
  • Spend a point of edge when casting the spell
  • Get a decent astral spotter or have "sympathetic link"


So assume primary spell caster rolls: skill 4 + magic 9 + edge 4 + aid sorcery 9 + foci/background/mentor + all the other successes = say 26 + foci etc + all others. With 3 of you supporting and getting 10 successes between you (very conservative, as they can roll edge as well, and have aid sorcery / foci / ... as well) that would be around 40 die

This means that you can hit someone with a force 13 spell from a level 4 lodge. A force 13 spell with 40 die backing it up is fairly serious mojo!

The only house rules I am thinking of introducing are:
  • You have been members of a magical group for so long that you are no longer at any penalties for ritual spell casting with multiple traditions (normally takes twice as long)
  • You can use anyones lodge (not against RAW as far as I can tell - rereading the section as I type), but if the primary spell caster doesn't mask as a legitimate user, then the rating of the lodge acts as a magical barrier against the spell.


This of course means that someone has to get great ritual, otherwise you are looking at a force 4 spell with maybe 20..30 die backing it up, and its lot less impressive.
Ol' Scratch
This really sounds interesting, though I don't recall the rules reading anything like that. biggrin.gif Of course, I never paid much attention to them to begin with, so ignorance abounds on my part!

That said, do you think it would be cheesy if I included a point or two for Ritual Spellcasting considering I have an Incompetent: Spellcasting quality? I originally had that on my first draft, as well as a couple of spells so I could take advantage of my Spirits of Man, but it seemed kind of weird to me. Would love to hear your guys' opinions on the subject. I can certainly afford to shift a few points around to get at least rank 1.
Seth
Totally different skill, and more its totally different usage. Gets you some spells for your spirit of man as well if you want
Ol' Scratch
I think part of my problem was that there's no real way to explain how I got the spells in the first place. Despite the character creation rules allowing it, learning a spell requires a Spellcasting Test. Ritual Spellcasting isn't a suitable replacement. And...

Wait, why am I talking myself out of this?
pbangarth
QUOTE (Ol' Scratch @ Feb 28 2011, 01:52 AM) *
Wait, why am I talking myself out of this?

It's best to get all the wrinkles out at the start, rather than having to retcon.

This does sound interesting. Maybe Mandala can get 1 level in Ritual Spellcasting. Or he could be the one who gives 9 dice in Aid Sorcery. Hmmm. can each spellcaster in the ritual who can Bind have his own spirit for Aiding?
Seth
QUOTE (pbangarth @ Feb 28 2011, 06:58 PM) *
It's best to get all the wrinkles out at the start, rather than having to retcon.

This does sound interesting. Maybe Mandala can get 1 level in Ritual Spellcasting. Or he could be the one who gives 9 dice in Aid Sorcery. Hmmm. can each spellcaster in the ritual who can Bind have his own spirit for Aiding?


I would get it anyway: you can use it for astral tracking. I suspect you will be aiding the primary caster, otherwise its 4500nuyen and a potentially deadly load of drain. The spell casters IIRC can bind their own spirits, and use their own foci and edge.

You can be certain that the bad guys will be using ritual sorcery, as will many of the other 4th age remnants. Its a slow but powerful tool.

pbangarth
QUOTE (Seth @ Feb 28 2011, 02:05 AM) *
I would get it anyway: you can use it for astral tracking. I suspect you will be aiding the primary caster, otherwise its 4500nuyen and a potentially deadly load of drain. The spell casters IIRC can bind their own spirits, and use their own foci and edge.

You can be certain that the bad guys will be using ritual sorcery, as will many of the other 4th age remnants. Its a slow but powerful tool.

OK, back to the drawing board. At least I have those BP I spent on 4th Age Remnants!
Ol' Scratch
Cripes, I'm feeling more and more useless. "It's okay guys, I can help protect us from this massive incoming ritual spell that we have no idea is being cast; I have Counterspelling 3!" <dies three seconds later> biggrin.gif
Seth
QUOTE (Ol' Scratch @ Feb 28 2011, 07:14 PM) *
Cripes, I'm feeling more and more useless. "It's okay guys, I can help protect us from this massive incoming ritual spell that we have no idea is being cast; I have Counterspelling 3!" <dies three seconds later> biggrin.gif

You'll be glad to know that assensing is your friend. You have a very good chance to spot the incoming spell (the bigger it is, the easier it is), then you get behind a nice big ward, get some people help you countermagic, and have a good healer near by. Increase body/Increase willpower are your friends (being possessed by a nice spirit to buff your body is not bad). You can also astral track them to their starting location, and head them off, or you can try and deal with their ritual spotter. You could even try and do an astral quest to break the link.

If you decide to tough it out though, you summon a nice big force 7+ish spirit and ask it to countermagic. Just as a start: countermagic 7 + your ward 9 (you do make your own wards don't you) + attribute + edge gives you around 20..25 die to resist with. Other people can add their countermagic using teamwork, so you could easily get 8 or more bonus die there.

But in practice a GM that does that without good reason is no different to one that snipers someone in the head from 2 miles away, thats actually more likely to kill some one.

In the games I have played and GMed in, we mostly use ritual magic to deal with low powered/magically inactive targets or track people and call in the troops. Powerful magicians tend to cancel out other power magicians, and it comes down to the grunts kicking the door down and blasting away.
Ol' Scratch
If it wasn't clear, I was just picking on myself for not being as combat-oriented (or defensively-oriented) as I often am with my characters. I'm kind of nervous about screwing this up and ending up like Senor Chang's mage in Community's Dungeons & Dragons episode. biggrin.gif
sabs
Is Great Ritual a Metamagic ? If it is, I'll pick it up.
pbangarth
Yes, it is on page 57 of Street Magic.
Aria
Ryl has some background story up and running now on page1 of this thread.

I'm a little nervous being the only decker on this little jaunt, mainly because I really don't know the rules...when I eventually get the rest of my stats posted please pull apart with a fine toothed weapon foci!!!

Any build tips in advance of that would be much appreciated!!!!!
sabs
I know Hackers pretty well smile.gif so if you don't mind some kibitzing smile.gif I can help.
BlackHat
QUOTE (Aria @ Feb 28 2011, 10:47 AM) *
Any build tips in advance of that would be much appreciated!!!!!

Unlurking for a bit. Some random hacker advice (having made a ton, and played a few). Feel free to take it with a grain of salt.
[ Spoiler ]

Seth
Don't worry: you get to face Zero on your own (see security briefing).

Programs:
You want to buy all your programs at 6. Pirate software is much cheaper (p94 unwired) but has a high monthly maintenance cost. If you pay the full cost, the programs won't degrade. Program options are important: ergonomic is nice on a few programs (the ones you run all the time), optimisation is critical as it lets you run a program above the maximum rating of the commlink, mute is awesome for exploit and spoof.

Commlink: The hardware skill acts like the software skill for availability. See table SR4a p222, so you can start with response 6 if you have hardware 4. You might as well start with all other attributes at 6.

Skills: Most hackers I have played with rate "hacking" as a killer skill, and recommend starting at 6 with a spec in exploit. You should get at least 1, and probably 4 in electronic warface and cybercombat. I would probably get the electronics group at 4: gives you hardware/software 4, which lets you get better equipment as described above. You might want to consider a few points in gunnery, pilot and perception skills so that if you should hack a drone, you can use it.

Qualities: Code slinger (hacking on the fly) is good (other options good too). More than metahuman is good if you have those few points in gunnery and pilot.

Attributes: Intuition and willpower are the really important ones (intuition especially, as its initiative). Logic is a bit useful, but for some reason not very.

Cyberware: Encephalon and maths spu are good.

Geneware: PuShEd and daredrenaline are good.

Nanotech: I personally am not a fan of nanotech, but many people like the logic skill boosting nanoware. Note though that as you take damage the nanotech gets zapped. However as a drake I'll give you a bonus: the nanotech vanishes when you are in drake form, so damage taken then doesn't impact the nanotech. I don't know if thats RAW or not. If you get nanotech, get a nanohive in a cyber hand or foot.

Bioware: I don't think helps you much

Remember the bioware and cyberware you get as deltaware for the cost of standard, but not geneware or nanotech (a nanohive counts as cyberware for these purposes to make life simpler).

Adept powers: As an adept I'd get enhanced skill(hacking), enhanced skill(cyber combat) and consider enhanced skill(electronics warfare or computer). I like multi-tasking a lot: as using matrix perception is a free action. Heightened concentration is awesome, as it lets you ignore loads of minus's (wound penalties being a big one).

Aria
I haven't had a chance to look at the hacker advice yet but I've updated my sheet again. I'm still over the BP limit by a bit and there are more things still to consider so it's a work in progress nyahnyah.gif

I went for an implanted comm so I don't need to worry about elastic bands!

Don't I use logic for all my hacking skills?!?
sabs
No, not really, not unless Seth decides to use the really excellent alternative rules.
Seth
Ah: I don't really like the excellent alternative rules: if people get lucky I like them to get the benefit of that luck, and I like hackers to be able to do something other than hack (otherwise they will be just better if they were a technomancer IMHO). I quite like an alternative system that uses logic + skill, and assumes that the hacker has good programs and equipment, but its so far away from RAW that I'm not going to run it on dumpshock.

We are using the standard hacking rules in a pnp game and they seem to work well. I have some minor whines about them (mostly I think the probe rules are flawed), but overall it seems much better than previous efforts. The party hacker tried a low logic hacker in the pnp game, and it just didn't work. You probably only need about logic 3 or 4 though. (Someone needs to make those hardware + logic rolls to hack into the wired systems, and matrix knowledge skills can be useful)
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