Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Finally got around to reading the Sixth World Almanac
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
Pages: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
hermit
Tamago is pretty mundane scrambled egg with soy sauce, like every omelette in Hawaii I ever ate.
Stahlseele
Well, i can't think of anything right off the bat . .
"Photoshop or japan" has it's reasons for existing.
ravensmuse
QUOTE (Doc Chase @ Mar 17 2011, 10:19 AM) *
Glorified, RM. Glorified. Which she is, and you know it. Ping was getting into softcore actions when she was first introduced until some of the subroutines kicked in, like throwing the lot of them out of the apartment while she got ready for school.

I know very well that dating sims =/= H-games. That still doesn't change that she's an accessory for the purpose of romance.

"She's an accessory for the purpose of romance" =/ "sexbot". Again: Ping doesn't have the subroutines for sex. End of story. She can get more comfortable with her users, yes. She can become what that user desires in a woman, yes. But in order to be a "sexbot", she actually, y'know, has to have sex with them.

Considering that her primary descendants are Chii from Chobits and Ruri from Nadeisco, neither of which were sexbots (though I'll give you that there were sexbots in Chobits, Chii wasn't one of them) and that she's in the comic as a means of exploring what it means to have your own thoughts and feelings when you're not supposed to (something familiar to the transhumanity vibe of SR4) I don't think writing her off as a "sexbot" does it justice.

Ech. Just spent half an hour searching for my H-games post from last year. I'll find it, but not today, apparently.
KarmaInferno
I'm pretty sure a lot of folks tend to classify any robot that's designed of ANY sort of 'human' relationship (as opposed to, say, manufacturing or utility or combat) as a "sexbot", even if it's TECHNICALLY the wrong nomenclature.

As ai said, most simply don't care enough to bother with those fine distinctions. Another smaller percentage of that group finds the whole idea weird and creepy.

I find it more amusing, honestly, when fans of a particular subject get all upset and bothered when an outsider gets the terminology wrong.

For example, we all know some folks who would just get right pissed off at this and totally miss the joke. Often goes hand in hand with Fan Myopia.



-k
Doc Chase
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Mar 18 2011, 10:46 PM) *


ALARM ALARM TVTROPES LINK

YOU WILL LOSE YOUR LIFE
Stahlseele
Thx, Dr., i allmost clicked on that link, if i had not read your warning . . and i don't have time right now!
Doc Chase
I know what you mean. I'm out of here in five minutes, and I almost clicked on it. nyahnyah.gif
Fatum
All that fuss instead of writing a single line in the hosts file.
Aaron
QUOTE (ravensmuse @ Mar 9 2011, 09:45 AM) *
Yep, and that's part of the problem. There are a lot of previously established characters in the Sixth World, specifically on Jackpoint, even, that would fulfill the need that /d/ (this is my own private joke) is supposed to be filling. So she jars against previous established canon, and she doesn't bring anything new or poignant to the table. No offense to Aaron either; I can totally see creating a character and then having other people use and abuse her.

No offense taken. I work with genius teenagers, and you write what you know, so I pitched her to Rob, and she was in.

Anyway, she's hardly "my" character any more. I wrote her with the intention of letting other writers have their way with her (so to speak). I've always envisioned her as starting out full of energy and optimism, and sliding into a very gritty and broken reality. Whether she does that without noticing (like Edmund), or violently (like O-Ren Ishii), or tragically (like Mercutio), or some other way is up to those who write her. She might get a real coming-of-age story, or sudden death. I personally think it's cool that I don't know. Hopefully, it'll be interesting.

(By the bye, that's a reference to 4chan's hentai forum, right?)
CanRay
I still say hand her over to me for a bit and she'll be a force to be respected.

Or in a corner gibbering madly.

Possibly both.
redwulf25
QUOTE (ravensmuse @ Mar 16 2011, 03:45 PM) *
My favorite examples of what Sixth World hackers are like are shows like .Hack, Densha Otoko, and Megatokyo (I think ya'll have heard my argument on that one before, right?).


Speaking of which I once made a hacker that had burned out on too many L337 M4573R BTL's. They used a Renta-zilla for their attack program and kept hallucinating a small hamster.
ravensmuse
QUOTE (Aaron @ May 1 2011, 02:34 PM) *
No offense taken. I work with genius teenagers, and you write what you know, so I pitched her to Rob, and she was in.

Anyway, she's hardly "my" character any more. I wrote her with the intention of letting other writers have their way with her (so to speak). I've always envisioned her as starting out full of energy and optimism, and sliding into a very gritty and broken reality. Whether she does that without noticing (like Edmund), or violently (like O-Ren Ishii), or tragically (like Mercutio), or some other way is up to those who write her. She might get a real coming-of-age story, or sudden death. I personally think it's cool that I don't know. Hopefully, it'll be interesting.

And if that was your intent, cool. Given that I actually enjoyed her more in Attitude!, I guess whoever wrote her sections got it.

Now I'm curious to see what they do with her.

QUOTE
(By the bye, that's a reference to 4chan's hentai forum, right?)

4chan's alternative hentai forum biggrin.gif

QUOTE (redwulf25 @ May 1 2011, 04:25 PM) *
Speaking of which I once made a hacker that had burned out on too many L337 M4573R BTL's. They used a Renta-zilla for their attack program and kept hallucinating a small hamster.

Largo is a technomancer. There. I said it. Everything he's seeing - zombie attacks, Rent-A-Zilla, crazed fanboys - is him interacting with the Matrix.
Mäx
QUOTE (ravensmuse @ Mar 16 2011, 02:25 PM) *
But in Almanac, it's just, "whoop, here's this little girl, now everyone hold her hands." It was just plain weird.

I just read all of her comment in the almanac and i just can't figure out where you got this impression.
Wakshaani
On Dev, there are a handful of "Why is she here?" storylines that could work.

1) Someone's GF. It's a demeaning thing for a character, but, "Bob's GF wants to hang out with us" is a mantra in many places. Someone called in a big favor to get her on the boards and everyone else puts up with it.

2) Someone's relative (Niece, daughter, etc) ... Not *quite* as bad, but still demeaning. Could be a Legacy (Hachetman's kid always has a place, etc)

3) Legit That Good. This one seems to not have much traction due to her comments and seemingly being a bit over her head.

4) "What does this button do?" accidental joiner. She just tripped into Jackpoint and they figured they could accept her or kill her. Unlikely, obviously.

5) The Long Con. She's being brought in by someone who needs a mole in her corporation (Shiawase, isn't it?) and will be betrayed. (Unlikely, obviously.)

6) "I'm a teenaged girl, tee hee!" Dev is, in fact, Louie the Plumber, 120 KG worth of unwashed New Yorker who pretends to be a teenaged girl online. FUNNY, but unlikely.

7) Lastly, "The Jubilee", which is the one I expect. Someone (Probably Fastjack himself) is on a run, something goes wrong, they go down from a bullet, stumble away, and wind up being found by Dev, who hides them from the corporate security team and nurses him back to health. While he recovers, they chat a bit and she brings him her deck, which is clearly modified. It's not the greatest of work (She's a fifteen year old corp kid) but it shows potential and a willingness to go outside the lines. She takes a risk later on, distracting the guards to get him out of there, and, a week later, she gets a gift in the mail ... a fully kitted-out deck, a handful of personalized programs, and an invite to Jackpoint. "You got potential kid. You're no, well ... ME ... but you have potential. I owe you a big one, so, get ready to be a protege."

This lets her be a decent hacker, but not a GREAT one, explains how she gets access to such an elite area, and why no one's talked about kicking her out ... they might bitch about her here and there, but she's Fastjack's personal project, so everyone shuts up and deals with it. She's proven that he can trust her, even if her talent isn't up on everyone else's level yet.

That's the one I'd go with, but, you know ... told way better. smile.gif
Mäx
QUOTE (Wakshaani @ May 15 2011, 09:09 AM) *
1) Someone's GF. It's a demeaning thing for a character, but, "Bob's GF wants to hang out with us" is a mantra in many places. Someone called in a big favor to get her on the boards and everyone else puts up with it.
2) Someone's relative (Niece, daughter, etc) ... Not *quite* as bad, but still demeaning. Could be a Legacy (Hachetman's kid always has a place, etc)
3) Legit That Good. This one seems to not have much traction due to her comments and seemingly being a bit over her head.

It's somekind of combination of these 3, she really is pretty good hacker and knows stuff about many subjects the rest of the jackpoint crew aren't so well versed.
And she also know many of the members personally, whether or not she's related to any of them remains to be seen.

I have never gotten the impression that she's not a top notch hacker, most of the stuff she doesn't know about seem to be specific happenings of sixth world history, witch isn't surprising considering she's a teenage corp kid.
Aaron
Good point: we haven't seen a lot of her run fu, at least not directly. Has anyone done a search to see what evidence can be collected on her Jackpoint-worthiness? I'm talking stuff she's actually done, not what information provided, which she might have gotten first-hand or might have just looked up.

All I can think of off the top of my head is planning a run in her head (Unwired) and digging cyberware out of some dead dude. Anybody else?
CanRay
We haven't seen enough of her in the fiction yet. She might be a good hacker, she might be a braggart, she might be a protege for FastJack as he's starting to feel old...

Hell, who knows at this point?
Floyd
I would hate to step on any toes here, or hurt feelings. And I don't means this as an attack, just as an observation.

The OP (RM) has many times stated that he does not dislike the traits of the dev-grrrl, but wishes they would have used an already established character or someone whose style he is more comfortable with. This suggest to me that the OP's largest concern is that she is new, representing new ideas and posibly a new face to something he has spent very long getting to know. The authors have chosen to continue to use this character, in their own way, to possible express where the hobby has progressed to or hopes to where it is going.

The OP also talks about the entries in the book to be substnadard to previous additions, suggesting a cut-paste would be a better idea. Not the best, but better. This again harkens back to what is familiar. The change may exist to add things to the past that the authors meant to be there or altering continuity to get over the past, our time, catching up to the present, Shadowrun time.

These are mere suggestions, but the pattern seems to fit, especially with such polarized opinions and a huge page count on the post in total. Now where the sex-robit talk fits in, I cannot say.
Stahlseele
QUOTE (CanRay @ May 15 2011, 05:26 PM) *
We haven't seen enough of her in the fiction yet. She might be a good hacker, she might be a braggart, she might be a protege for FastJack as he's starting to feel old...

Hell, who knows at this point?

Fast Jack Feels Old, but he knows how to rationalize it away in his fight aainst the second crash worm . .
Fortinbras
QUOTE (Aaron @ May 15 2011, 08:04 AM) *
Good point: we haven't seen a lot of her run fu, at least not directly. Has anyone done a search to see what evidence can be collected on her Jackpoint-worthiness? I'm talking stuff she's actually done, not what information provided, which she might have gotten first-hand or might have just looked up.

All I can think of off the top of my head is planning a run in her head (Unwired) and digging cyberware out of some dead dude. Anybody else?

I used her as the kidnapped girl in the Emergence adventure seed Realm Beyond and found that she had a lot of neat uses for storytelling. She's perfect for exposition and to show how someone can seem aloof and uninterested in the flesh and blood, but when communicating through text can be a treasure trove of information. The theme needed to show how immersible the Matrix can be and she helped out with that.
Two of my players are teenage girls and another two have teenage children, so it was fun to see how they interacted with the character.

On the run, however, my group had no end to the uses for a 15 year old hacker. From seeming non-threatening for infiltration to running logistics to finding social media connections. When I put her in the run I honestly thought she would just be dead weight for an escort mission, but everyone got a lot of mileage out of her. Before the run I was totally in the camp that /dev/grrl was some kind of little Anakin Skywalker exposition tool, but I was genuinely surprised at how useful a character she was in the campaign.

While there is relatively little fiction or allusion to any of her runs, I would imagine she'd end up the Kitty Pride or Jubilee of Shadowrun.
warrior_allanon
QUOTE (ravensmuse @ Mar 17 2011, 09:42 AM) *
*sigh*

She's a non-H model. It's spelled out explicitly several times. She will not take H-games. She barely had any subroutines for undressing in front of people for the longest time. Her purpose is to help draw otaku out of their shells and actually make them date real people.

Also, dating sims =/ h-games. This is the problem with people who hear about things only through off-hand references via Something Awful or Crackd or whatever. Dating sims are generally softcore at their worst, and usually have what "core" elements excised when they do manga / anime translations. I don't have the time to go into the differences, but yeah. Kagetenshi could explain more, or, when I get back tonight, I could dig up my old post on the differences between the two.



I happen to be an MT fan as well, so bad in fact that i brought the groups "Endgames" characters into my 3.5ed "Ebberon" campaign. Not to mention that i'm already working on bringing the whole crew into the SR universe, or else sending the author/artist a crossover story for one of his "Omake Theater" spreads. That said, heres the IMPORTANT comics that refer to Ping.

http://megatokyo.com/strip/1172
http://megatokyo.com/strip/1173
http://megatokyo.com/strip/1174
http://megatokyo.com/strip/1175


personally since I think i've got the bugs worked out of Miho, I think i'm gonna do Ping next, but she's gonna have to have the restricted gear quality so that she can have the Otomo drone for a body
ravensmuse
QUOTE (warrior_allanon @ May 15 2011, 04:15 PM) *
I happen to be an MT fan as well, so bad in fact that i brought the groups "Endgames" characters into my 3.5ed "Ebberon" campaign. Not to mention that i'm already working on bringing the whole crew into the SR universe, or else sending the author/artist a crossover story for one of his "Omake Theater" spreads. That said, heres the IMPORTANT comics that refer to Ping.

http://megatokyo.com/strip/1172
http://megatokyo.com/strip/1173
http://megatokyo.com/strip/1174
http://megatokyo.com/strip/1175


personally since I think i've got the bugs worked out of Miho, I think i'm gonna do Ping next, but she's gonna have to have the restricted gear quality so that she can have the Otomo drone for a body

I don't know if it was here in this thread or another thread, but I have laid out before that Megatokyo takes place in the Sixth World. I mean, think about it.

Largo: complete unaware of the fact that he's Emerged. His plot centers around the technomancer and AI community that's sprung up in Tokyo.
Piro: Somehow managed to become best friends / lovers with the latest Horizon subsidary pop-superstar, now trying to help her fight the system.

And then you get into the magical girls, and Rent-A-Zilla, and the Sony Hitsquads...
ravensmuse
QUOTE (Floyd @ May 15 2011, 01:58 PM) *
I would hate to step on any toes here, or hurt feelings. And I don't means this as an attack, just as an observation.

K, cool. Also, you can just call me raven, or you can call me Al. But call me Dottie and you're dead.

QUOTE
The OP (RM) has many times stated that he does not dislike the traits of the dev-grrrl, but wishes they would have used an already established character or someone whose style he is more comfortable with. This suggest to me that the OP's largest concern is that she is new, representing new ideas and posibly a new face to something he has spent very long getting to know. The authors have chosen to continue to use this character, in their own way, to possible express where the hobby has progressed to or hopes to where it is going.

We-ell, no. That's not exactly why I expressed an issue with /d/.

I'm all for change, and I'm all for moving things forward. I may have started reading Shadowrun back in the 2nd edition days, but I've finally gotten to play Shadowrun with 4e. As such, I'm actually pretty new to things, I just like shout-outs. Usually, as a manner of the universe in which the Sixth World exists, there exists enough of this to satisfy me and keep me relatively tame.

As I've said multiple times within this thread, I have absolutely no problem with the writers introducing new characters.. Nada. Bing. Zip.

What I do have a problem with is when those very same writers choose to introduce a character that doesn't jive with the established world.. Why is this girl here? Who introduced her? Who invited her in? Jackpoint is supposed to be a closed community with multiple vets to get in - yet, a girl who had to have someone explain some of the Sixth World history to her - history that, IIRC, isn't even that unknown, is invited in? Uh...

It's jarring. And it's kind of annoying. That's why I suggested that if they were looking to introduce a new character in which to provide a window of entry for new players for, they could use someone already pre-established in previous material. Using GnuB would be nothing more than a fun shout-out to a character that personally, I dig.

Now, I've since gone on to read Attitude, where other writers have utilized /d/. And I found that, despite her familiar writing style (she's a fifteen year old girl) I actually really dug her perspective on things. And, shock and awe, I actually thought her contributions were some of the best in the book.

Imagine that.

QUOTE
The OP also talks about the entries in the book to be substnadard to previous additions, suggesting a cut-paste would be a better idea. Not the best, but better. This again harkens back to what is familiar. The change may exist to add things to the past that the authors meant to be there or altering continuity to get over the past, our time, catching up to the present, Shadowrun time.

Eh, once again, kind of missing the point.

Sixth World Atlas has a good couple of things working against it. One is that it's a product with a very long development time. Originally it was meant to be part of the 20th Anniversary of Shadowrun and was supposed to be the American version of [b]Die .6 World
; something I'm too willing to admit I have a crazy obsession with. That meant multiple cooks in the stew and all of the sundry things that can happen to that.

Secondly, it was hampered by a shift of management.

Thirdly, said management is currently a bunch of crooks and liars and are putting books out to say that they are putting books out, regardless of actual quality. War! and Attitude suffer this very same problem, to varying degrees.

I make no bones about how I feel about the current management of CGL. You can read my sig for further details.

This is not a problem of "everything new sucks! Everything previous was so much better!" This is an issue of, "your quality control sucks, and you need to get a handle on this shit because it's costing you money and fans!"

Again: While I started with Shadowrun in 2nd Edition, I didn't get to actually play Shadowrun until 4th Edition. There is no starry-eye'd idealism going on here - okay, maybe just a little, I'll admit - just someone with half-a-decent hand at writing and a proficiency for world lore going, "seriously? This is your triumphant return from disaster?"

QUOTE
These are mere suggestions, but the pattern seems to fit, especially with such polarized opinions and a huge page count on the post in total.

The grognard card? Seriously?

QUOTE
Now where the sex-robit talk fits in, I cannot say.

Geeks hate geeks in other genres, news at eleven.
Fatum
QUOTE (ravensmuse @ May 16 2011, 03:15 AM) *
What I do have a problem with is [b]when those very same writers choose to introduce a character that doesn't jive with the established world.. Why is this girl here? Who introduced her? Who invited her in? Jackpoint is supposed to be a closed community with multiple vets to get in - yet, a girl who had to have someone explain some of the Sixth World history to her - history that, IIRC, isn't even that unknown, is invited in? Uh...

It's jarring. And it's kind of annoying. That's why I suggested that if they were looking to introduce a new character in which to provide a window of entry for new players for, they could use someone already pre-established in previous material. Using GnuB would be nothing more than a fun shout-out to a character that personally, I dig.
Oh, apropos to annoying characters - FastJack was extremely annoying in The Way of the Adept with his reprimands. There's hardly a character a bad writer can't spoil.
CanRay
Well, back when I was in school, my English Teacher tried to show us that there weren't any bad characters, only bad writing.

She was wrong. nyahnyah.gif
IKerensky
And what if /dev/ is just too true to be true ?

She is definitely not believable as she was like someone that try to hard to impersonnate some character. She's supposed to be new and cute and ignorant but everyone online seems to know and respect her enough to provide her information. And she has information to provide that other are unaware of.

So for me several pov (not necessiraly how she is in RL but how she is in my SR) :

1- She is an sentient AI evolved from an Hello Kitty meet Barbie agenda notebook for Schoolgirls, that is why other hacker seems to respect her and why she has such a special way to socially interract. That is just part of her communication, like if she was a foreigner from girly-land with girlish as her native language.

2- She is a well known Shadowrunner impersonnating her. But in this case, why is no one calling on the bluff ? perhaps that is because it was an hacker that got several neural damage after a run but still possess considerable skills, just suffer from mental delusion and is convinced to be a 15 yrs old girl. Confronting him/her could result in a total breakdown and Jackpoint is protecting his/her.

3- She is overacting, but that is not really a trouble in a world where some people dress as clown or harlequin, some look like a giant turtle or have purple electrical mohawk. Perhaps the overracting could get on the nerves but I think the hackers in VR are used to impersonnate extreme avatars with outlandish personnality. And the reason why the people answer her rather than tell her to *off and read the interdweeb is because they play along as the main use of shadowland is to share information and build a database for everyone in the shadow to use. And some of the shadowrunners could really need some Global World Situation and Common Knowledge 101 (like every child prodigies from the Barrens or Orks Samouraïs that manage to reach international status).
Mäx
QUOTE (ravensmuse @ May 16 2011, 02:15 AM) *
yet, a girl who had to have someone explain some of the Sixth World history to her - history that, IIRC, isn't even that unknown, is invited in? Uh...

Because you ofcource know everysingle think of the fifth world history for the last 100 years, right.
Also that kind of history knowledge has no relevance what so ever for someones runner skills.
Grinder
Wikipedia, anyone? grinbig.gif
ravensmuse
QUOTE (Mäx @ May 16 2011, 03:50 AM) *
Because you ofcource know everysingle think of the fifth world history for the last 100 years, right.

No, but I do know how to use a search engine. So should she, if she's half the hacker she's supposed to be.

QUOTE
Also that kind of history knowledge has no relevance what so ever for someones runner skills.

Yup, I agree. But what it does do is make you ask the question - if she's so shit-hot a hacker she can hang out on Jackpoint, why is she having someone hand-hold her through a basic history lesson? It's not that hard.
ravensmuse
QUOTE (Grinder @ May 16 2011, 06:50 AM) *
Wikipedia, anyone? grinbig.gif

Damn you Grinder. biggrin.gif
IKerensky
QUOTE (Grinder @ May 16 2011, 11:50 AM) *
Wikipedia, anyone? grinbig.gif


Because Wikipedia doesnt exist in Shadowrun as the idea of an user filled internet database sound just that much dumb and useless a few years ago. It was clear the only true information could only be received from shadownet chat rooms. (does Shadownet have forums ?).

Wich isn't totally unlogical. I cant see Wikipedia or something as global as that exist in the 6th World, every major corporation would have its own version of it and devote a large amount of time to manipulate the informations avaliables on publics areas.

Remember than in SR information is power, and verificated informations, regardless of the exact subject is priceless.

Doesnt sound too dumb to ask to informed people "Hey, what really happened in years 2013, my corpo teach me that, and the matrix told me that, but what was really happening ?"
Ascalaphus
Of course, there's S-K's Aetherpedia. That's been pointed to as an actual big encyclopedia-style Matrix resource. But it seems like that kind of thing is rare: the Matrix 1.0 wasn't as free-for-all as our Internet. Even the Matrix 2.0 seems to be heavily corporate-run, with very little user-created things. Although it's hard to come up with good reasons for that, because the everyone-can-hack style of M2.0 should make it very easy.
Mäx
QUOTE (ravensmuse @ May 16 2011, 01:54 PM) *
No, but I do know how to use a search engine. So should she, if she's half the hacker she's supposed to be.

You still haven't pointed out which commentsw from her in the Almanact brought out all this hate you have on her.
Because i really only found one question she asked where she might have just used the search engine to get the answer, but really if i was hanging out with people who no the event their referring to, i most likely would also just ask them instead of bothering to google it.
Brazilian_Shinobi
QUOTE (Ascalaphus @ May 16 2011, 08:33 AM) *
Although it's hard to come up with good reasons for that, because the everyone-can-hack style of M2.0 should make it very easy.


You can hack, doesn't mean you will survive the IC later.
Ascalaphus
IC doesn't do much to a blogger in AR.

There doesn't really seem to be much holding people back from participating in the Matrix. Any commlink will do as a server for a Node, and generic basic programs aren't too expensive either. Connectivity is also trivial.
CanRay
QUOTE (ravensmuse @ May 16 2011, 05:54 AM) *
Yup, I agree. But what it does do is make you ask the question - if she's so shit-hot a hacker she can hang out on Jackpoint, why is she having someone hand-hold her through a basic history lesson? It's not that hard.

Because the history classes and lessons she's gotten so far in life came from a very corporate slant.

She is a child of John and Jane Q. Wageslave after all. This is how she learns what is *REALLY* going on.

From a certain point of view, as Obi put it.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (CanRay @ May 16 2011, 09:04 AM) *
Because the history classes and lessons she's gotten so far in life came from a very corporate slant.

She is a child of John and Jane Q. Wageslave after all. This is how she learns what is *REALLY* going on.

From a certain point of view, as Obi put it.

And really, you can't argue that point all that much. Many Corporate Wageslaves are born, brought up, educated, work for, and die within a single Megacorporation, without ever receiving any point of view but the party line. Makes complete sense to me.
Fatum
QUOTE (Mäx @ May 16 2011, 11:50 AM) *
Also that kind of history knowledge has no relevance what so ever for someones runner skills.
Really, not knowing the history of at least the AAAs makes for some really grim career opportunities for a fledging runner. Makes this much harder to tell when your J's about to cross you.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Fatum @ May 16 2011, 09:58 AM) *
Really, not knowing the history of at least the AAAs makes for some really grim career opportunities for a fledging runner. Makes this much harder to tell when your J's about to cross you.


Which is why /devgrl is asking these types of questions. wobble.gif
Fatum
Not being able to find the answers for the type of questions she's asking herself is even worse :ь
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Fatum @ May 16 2011, 11:15 AM) *
Not being able to find the answers for the type of questions she's asking herself is even worse :ь


Is it not possible that the answers she has found are ALSO SLANTED to the Corps POV? Gee, that would never happen. smile.gif Who better to ask than the Top Tier Shadowrunners that she is now hanging out with?
Sengir
QUOTE (IKerensky @ May 16 2011, 11:28 AM) *
Remember than in SR information is power, and verificated informations, regardless of the exact subject is priceless.

Exactly, that's the whole point of Jackpoint: You may be a herostratic mass murderer or attempt to sell a member of the community for vivisection, if you are able and willing to share useful info that's fine.


So there's nothing wrong with having a tee-hee-teeny girl on the site. But a character whose main act is "excuse me mister, what's a Predator?" just doesn't make sense unless there is somebody powerful who takes her under the wing...and since Jackpoint is no Waldolf school, I'd expect some heated exchanges in that case.
Mäx
QUOTE (Fatum @ May 16 2011, 07:58 PM) *
Really, not knowing the history of at least the AAAs makes for some really grim career opportunities for a fledging runner. Makes this much harder to tell when your J's about to cross you.

Could you give a page ref where this info of her not knowing AAA:s history can be found?
QUOTE (Sengir @ May 16 2011, 10:33 PM) *
But a character whose main act is "excuse me mister, what's a Predator?"

Also a page ref for queestions even remptely like this would be nice, if it exists?
Eimi
QUOTE (Mäx @ May 16 2011, 12:36 PM) *
Could you give a page ref where this info of her not knowing AAA:s history can be found?

Also a page ref for queestions even remptely like this would be nice, if it exists?


They don't. It's hyperbole.

She was actually quite tolerable, in my opinion, as I finally got around to reading my copy. She asks questions largely about somewhat obscure events, or events that are so different from what a child growing up in a corp in the 60s would ever experience that they're downright alien to her, so she asks how the people involved could handle them.

She mostly just offends people due to her lack of social graces, more than her ignorance (in text, that is...), and while she is the most common "huh?" character in the text, she isn't the only one, and isn't there for every question.

Considering the way public schooling has been taken out back and shot in general in Shadowrun, and doubly so for corp schools' versions of history, her ignorance on certain events is QUITE plausible. And as for the Deus thing, I imagine that she isn't working for Renraku; perhaps her corp makes sure to point out how foolish and ignorant their competition is at any available moment? And we don't know WHEN she wrote the report...it could well be after AI existence has become more "the latest hot thing" and less "whatthefuuuuuuck" in the public sphere.

Not to mention, we don't actually know how ACCURATE her report on the arcology shutdown and the events inside and behind it were. For all we know, it was rather radically different than the reality.

The only real issue with her would be the "why was she invited onto Jackpoint" thing, and that's pretty easily answerable with "because Jack invited her, and the ways of Jack are mysterious and unfathomable". If anyone got too strident with their questioning of it on the board, the mod(jack)hammer might have come down on them. We don't know.

I know this much: I find her way more tolerable than Mr. Drake Sunglassesandkatanasatnight. Let's not bring up SR's history of outstanding canon character creation.
Blade
We actually don't know exactly how/why exactly people are invited to Jackpoint. It could just be because they live in the Shadows and have a foot fetish (according to the latest books).
ggodo
I don't want to play Footrun. . .
ravensmuse
QUOTE (Mäx @ May 16 2011, 02:36 PM) *
Could you give a page ref where this info of her not knowing AAA:s history can be found?

I don't remember. I don't own the book, so I can't look it up.

What I do remember is that it was in the history section, and someone says something to the effect of, "remember? This is what I was explaining to you last week." It was so head-pattingly condescending I balked.

QUOTE
Also a page ref for queestions even remptely like this would be nice, if it exists?

In the end, does it really matter? It's the impression I took away from a character. Apparently, others did as well. It's not some rule that you can then dissect in its minutae and then present to me knowingly, saying, "empirically, you're wrong." It was a feeling I got from a character that apparently the writer didn't have a handle on.

I again state that I did not find her annoying at all in Attitude, and actually found her section at the end more interesting than most of the rest of the book. She reminded me of some friends I had when I ran a chatroom on dA, right down to the horrible misspellings.

This whole "SHOW ME WHERE IN THE BOOK YOU FOUND THIS" is a little Randall for my tastes, thanks.
Aaron
One of the first things I teach my students is to look things up. Teenagers have had a (teenage) lifetime of dependence on adults, so much so that their first instinct is to ask questions. Adults then either teach them to look stuff up themselves in good sources, look stuff up in bad sources (like skewed Sixth-World corp-sponsored online "encyclopedias"), or just shut up.

You might be surprised at the capabilities of teens.
Mäx
QUOTE (ravensmuse @ May 17 2011, 01:42 PM) *
What I do remember is that it was in the history section, and someone says something to the effect of, "remember? This is what I was explaining to you last week." It was so head-pattingly condescending I balked.

You meant this one, after the article talking about Japanese soldiers evicting metahumans from their home in San Fran:
"Remember that conversation we had the other day grrl? I told you never trust
the Japanese.
> Butch
> Yeah, I thought you were making that up. They actually evicted people and gave
their homes and belongings to the soldiers? That’s nuts.
> /dev/grrl"

While the wording is much different, it does give me a totally different kind of image then the wording you used, witch i have to admit would have made facepalm to grrl.

QUOTE (ravensmuse @ May 17 2011, 01:42 PM) *
This whole "SHOW ME WHERE IN THE BOOK YOU FOUND THIS" is a little Randall for my tastes, thanks.

Well if those thinks actually where in the game, it would have made me much better to understand where you guys where coming from and migh have made me even agree with you.
CanRay
That harkens back to her Corporate Upbringing, especially if she's from one of the JapanaCorps. Brain Washing from birth is hard to get away from.

Just ask someone in the US how likely they'd vote for the Communist Party. nyahnyah.gif
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012