Full Version: Mage Hunting and Personal Magic Defense
Absorption allows you to absorb spells to reduce the DV of spells you cast shortly afterward. Basically allows you to redirect that magic back at your opponent.
QUOTE
For example one of my 750 karma builds throws 22 dice
How does that work. I mean you would need to initiate about 7 times. (Or use foci)
QUOTE (Halflife @ May 29 2011, 01:44 PM) 
Absorption allows you to absorb spells to reduce the DV of spells you cast shortly afterward. Basically allows you to redirect that magic back at your opponent.
Wow.
QUOTE (Mäx @ May 29 2011, 03:34 PM)
If the mage can't hurt yoo, then your on a pretty damm good start at being good at killing mages.
For example one of my 750 karma builds throws 22 dice for absorption(combatspells, so he most of the time absorbs 7(or more) points of force from combat spells used against him and after the first one he can throw back a force 16 stunbolt with 0 drain or if he doesn't have direct los or want's a real area effect a force 9 ball lightning with measly 2 drain witch is resisted to 0.
For example one of my 750 karma builds throws 22 dice for absorption(combatspells, so he most of the time absorbs 7(or more) points of force from combat spells used against him and after the first one he can throw back a force 16 stunbolt with 0 drain or if he doesn't have direct los or want's a real area effect a force 9 ball lightning with measly 2 drain witch is resisted to 0.
That's a double edged sword. Unless you have 7+ magic, you run the risk of absorbing too much magic and taking damage.
Minding that Absorption is an advanced metamagic that requires Shielding, why wouldn't you have 7+ magic when you get to it?
QUOTE (Fatum @ May 29 2011, 06:47 PM)
Minding that Absorption is an advanced metamagic that requires Shielding, why wouldn't you have 7+ magic when you get to it?
It depends on the character and that metamagic can be learned without initiation.
Shielding, Reflection, Absorption. < = in combination, you are pretty much spell proof for most purposes . .
Shield yourself from damage, reflect what you can not shield, absorb what you can not reflect.
Shield yourself from damage, reflect what you can not shield, absorb what you can not reflect.
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ May 29 2011, 05:15 PM)
Shielding, Reflection, Absorption. < = in combination, you are pretty much spell proof for most purposes . .
Shield yourself from damage, reflect what you can not shield, absorb what you can not reflect.
Shield yourself from damage, reflect what you can not shield, absorb what you can not reflect.
Magic is bad for my health.
QUOTE (Irion @ May 29 2011, 11:51 PM)
How does that work. I mean you would need to initiate about 7 times. (Or use foci)
Level 3 iniate with shileding and absorption:
Willpower/Body 4
Counterspelling(combat) 5(+2)
Mentorspirit +2
Shielding +3
Shielding focus +3
Absorption +3
4+5+2+2+3+3+3=22
I don't think that you add your initiation grade for shielding AND absorption.
QUOTE
Absorption
Prerequisite: Shielding (p. 190, SR4)
This advanced Shielding technique allows an initiate to
siphon some of the mana away from a spell used against her.
To use this metamagic, the character performs the usual Spell
Resistance Test (pp. 173-174, SR4) using Counterspelling, and
adding the initiate grade as a dice pool modifier. Regardless
of whether the spell is fully resisted or not, each hit on the
character’s Spell Resistance Test allows her to absorb one Force
point as one point of temporary “mana charge” (up to the spell’s
Force). This mana charge may be retained in the absorbing
character’s aura for (initiate grade) turns. Each point of mana
charge may be used to reduce the Drain DV from casting a spell
by 1, at which point it is used up. The maximum mana charge a
magician can retain is equal to her Magic attribute. Each point
of absorbed charge above this level dissipates, but not before
causing an automatic 1 DV of Physical damage (such damage
is cumulative: absorbing 3 points above the character’s Magic
causes 3 DV). If the mana charge is not fully expended in the
time limit, the initiate must resist Drain with a DV equal to the
remaining mana charge (if the mana charge exceeds the character’s
Magic, this Drain is Physical). Unused mana charge is then
lost. A character cannot absorb mana from a spell she has cast
herself or reflected with Reflecting metamagic.
Prerequisite: Shielding (p. 190, SR4)
This advanced Shielding technique allows an initiate to
siphon some of the mana away from a spell used against her.
To use this metamagic, the character performs the usual Spell
Resistance Test (pp. 173-174, SR4) using Counterspelling, and
adding the initiate grade as a dice pool modifier. Regardless
of whether the spell is fully resisted or not, each hit on the
character’s Spell Resistance Test allows her to absorb one Force
point as one point of temporary “mana charge” (up to the spell’s
Force). This mana charge may be retained in the absorbing
character’s aura for (initiate grade) turns. Each point of mana
charge may be used to reduce the Drain DV from casting a spell
by 1, at which point it is used up. The maximum mana charge a
magician can retain is equal to her Magic attribute. Each point
of absorbed charge above this level dissipates, but not before
causing an automatic 1 DV of Physical damage (such damage
is cumulative: absorbing 3 points above the character’s Magic
causes 3 DV). If the mana charge is not fully expended in the
time limit, the initiate must resist Drain with a DV equal to the
remaining mana charge (if the mana charge exceeds the character’s
Magic, this Drain is Physical). Unused mana charge is then
lost. A character cannot absorb mana from a spell she has cast
herself or reflected with Reflecting metamagic.
@Mäx
Yes, thats what I thought. You do not add initiation grade twice. Because it is silly and not RAW.
@Stahlseele
You just get one counterspelling test, not three. (Because it would be silly and is not RAW)
Read the post from Dez384 to confirm. Last part
Yes, thats what I thought. You do not add initiation grade twice. Because it is silly and not RAW.
@Stahlseele
QUOTE
Shielding, Reflection, Absorption. < = in combination, you are pretty much spell proof for most purposes . .
You just get one counterspelling test, not three. (Because it would be silly and is not RAW)
Read the post from Dez384 to confirm. Last part
A suggestion to the OP.
If you're going to try and hunt other awakened... especially mages. Kill LOS. LOS is a negative on spellcasting as well as ranged combat pools.
There's some good martial arts + adept tricks which can make you a very very nasty blind fighter... (motion sense...). If they can't see you, they can't stunbolt you. Toss in a bit of the standard phys ad melee tricks and you're golden. Other good things to remember are smoke grenades and the like. There's a little debate on how effective they are on astral perception (I tend to consider them half-effective against assensing... similar to how low-light or other visual enhancements have different visibility mods). Another good trick is to go mystic adept... pull in some ranks in counterspelling and maybe a little bit of summoning (concealment is a negative penalty on people attacking you, and even at a low force 2-4 is a nice edge w/o being overpowering)
Another reasonable adept power is the constant detect magic... as it identifies spirits/foci/etc... in your vicinity.
Everyone always forgets that if you have people with good cover... in a firefight that is a negative penalty on guns but also on the spellslinger.
If you're going to try and hunt other awakened... especially mages. Kill LOS. LOS is a negative on spellcasting as well as ranged combat pools.
There's some good martial arts + adept tricks which can make you a very very nasty blind fighter... (motion sense...). If they can't see you, they can't stunbolt you. Toss in a bit of the standard phys ad melee tricks and you're golden. Other good things to remember are smoke grenades and the like. There's a little debate on how effective they are on astral perception (I tend to consider them half-effective against assensing... similar to how low-light or other visual enhancements have different visibility mods). Another good trick is to go mystic adept... pull in some ranks in counterspelling and maybe a little bit of summoning (concealment is a negative penalty on people attacking you, and even at a low force 2-4 is a nice edge w/o being overpowering)
Another reasonable adept power is the constant detect magic... as it identifies spirits/foci/etc... in your vicinity.
Everyone always forgets that if you have people with good cover... in a firefight that is a negative penalty on guns but also on the spellslinger.
QUOTE (Irion @ May 30 2011, 08:02 AM)
@Mäx
Yes, thats what I thought. You do not add initiation grade twice. Because it is silly and not RAW.
Yes, thats what I thought. You do not add initiation grade twice. Because it is silly and not RAW.
Absorption is used by doing a spell resistance test using counterspelling and adding your iniate grade as a dicepool modifier.
Shielding adds your iniate grade as a dicepool modifier to you counterspelling, no where in the rules does it say that these 2 dice pool modifiers are incompatible with each other.
@Mäx
Of course it does. Read the post of Dez384.
Since every mage who has Absorption has also shielding, the example given is for a mage having both Absorption and Shielding.
And is the initiate grade added twice? No, it is not.
Of course it does. Read the post of Dez384.
Since every mage who has Absorption has also shielding, the example given is for a mage having both Absorption and Shielding.
And is the initiate grade added twice? No, it is not.
QUOTE (Irion @ May 30 2011, 06:04 PM)
@Mäx
Of course it does. Read the post of Dez384.
Of course it does. Read the post of Dez384.
I have read all the relevant rules, none of them say that you dont get the dicepool bonus from shielding when using absorption.
QUOTE ("Absorption")
Prerequisite: Shielding (p. 190, SR4)
This advanced Shielding technique allows an initiate to
siphon some of the mana away from a spell used against her.
To use this metamagic, the character performs the usual Spell
Resistance Test (pp. 173-174, SR4) using Counterspelling, and
adding the initiate grade as a dice pool modifier.
This advanced Shielding technique allows an initiate to
siphon some of the mana away from a spell used against her.
To use this metamagic, the character performs the usual Spell
Resistance Test (pp. 173-174, SR4) using Counterspelling, and
adding the initiate grade as a dice pool modifier.
It is here what you add. If they wanted to add twice counterspelling, they would have written so.
QUOTE (Irion @ May 30 2011, 08:29 PM)
It is here what you add. If they wanted to add twice counterspelling, they would have written so.
Shielding is part of the counterspelling pool.
QUOTE (SR4A page 198)
Shielding: A character who learns shielding learns to better
protect herself against hostile spells as they are cast. When
using Counterspelling to protect against hostile spells, the magician
adds a number of dice equal to her initiate grade to her
Counterspelling dice
protect herself against hostile spells as they are cast. When
using Counterspelling to protect against hostile spells, the magician
adds a number of dice equal to her initiate grade to her
Counterspelling dice
That's just ridiculous. Absorption is a variation of Shielding, not another re-stack. You sound like a D&Der.
@Mäx
But you are using Absorption so I guess you have to follow the rules on Absorbtion. I ain't that hard.
And there it is told exactly how it is down.
Make a counterspelling test (if you go to said page you will find the information if you have to use body or willpower) and add your counterspelling dices plus your initiate grade. It does not matter what shielding says, because you are not using it.
It stats make a resistant test with counterspelling + initiate grade. Counterspelling is the name of the skill.
But you are using Absorption so I guess you have to follow the rules on Absorbtion. I ain't that hard.
And there it is told exactly how it is down.
Make a counterspelling test (if you go to said page you will find the information if you have to use body or willpower) and add your counterspelling dices plus your initiate grade. It does not matter what shielding says, because you are not using it.
It stats make a resistant test with counterspelling + initiate grade. Counterspelling is the name of the skill.
QUOTE (Irion @ May 30 2011, 09:05 PM)
It stats make a resistant test with counterspelling + initiate grade. Counterspelling is the name of the skill.
Yes it's a name of the skill, there are thinks that add dice pool modifiers to that skill, shielding being one of them.
No where in the absorption rules does it say you dont add in the modifiers for counterspelling.
QUOTE
Shielding: A character who learns shielding learns to better
protect herself against hostile spells as they are cast. When
using Counterspelling to protect against hostile spells, the magician
adds a number of dice equal to her initiate grade to her
Counterspelling dice. This bonus applies whether the magician is
protecting herself or another. These additional dice are not gained
for any other use of Counterspelling.
protect herself against hostile spells as they are cast. When
using Counterspelling to protect against hostile spells, the magician
adds a number of dice equal to her initiate grade to her
Counterspelling dice. This bonus applies whether the magician is
protecting herself or another. These additional dice are not gained
for any other use of Counterspelling.
Absorption is an "other use of counterspelling".
Nuh uh, Dez384, it doesn't specifically say that!! Hehe. Kidding, of course.
You have to always ask yourself, 'Am I obviously misinterpreting the rules to help myself, in a way that simply doesn't make sense?' ('Am I a dirty munchkin?'). If something seems really good, it's too good to be true. If something seems to double or triple-count a bonus, it's too good to be true.
Hehe. Kidding, of course.You have to always ask yourself, 'Am I obviously misinterpreting the rules to help myself, in a way that simply doesn't make sense?' ('Am I a dirty munchkin?'). If something seems really good, it's too good to be true. If something seems to double or triple-count a bonus, it's too good to be true.
As long as the GM is fine with it, run with the most broken interpretation you can make. There are 3 billion NPCs and one you. Every argument for a more powerful doodad is an argument for a massive jump in the world's power and a comparatively minor jump in your own. My advice: be careful what you wish for. 
@Mäx
But if you use the skill dice pool modifiers you may get in other circumstances are really not important.
But if you use the skill dice pool modifiers you may get in other circumstances are really not important.
QUOTE (Dez384 @ May 30 2011, 09:24 PM)
Absorption is an "other use of counterspelling".
Not really, you do the usual spell resistance test, witch is exactly the use of counterspelling that shielding applies to.
QUOTE (Mäx @ May 30 2011, 08:44 PM)
Not really, you do the usual spell resistance test, witch is exactly the use of counterspelling that shielding applies to.
It may be the same dice pool, but you do something else. You are absorbing spells and you are not shielding yourself from spells. This is indeed an other use of counterspelling.
Would you add your Shielding metamagic extra dice for a Cleansing attempt ? It is after all based on a Magic + Counterspelling roll. Or the dices from a Counterspelling focus ? Reflecting is more accurate in it's wording : "To use Reflecting a character must be able to use Counterspelling during the normal Spell Resistance Test. As with Shielding, add initiate grade as a dice pool modifier.", and the base rules (SR4A p 198) says about Shielding "These additionnal dice are not gained for any other use of Counterspelling.", strongly hinting that you don't get to add your intiation rank twice.
Personnally as a player and as a GM I would not, so neither would I add them for an Absorption test - those are different use of the same skill. I view Shielding/Absorption/Reflexion as three alternatives rather than cumulatives way to counter a spell.
Obviously YMMW, but I strongly advise to check that with your table/GM to be sure that everyone is on the same page.
Personnally as a player and as a GM I would not, so neither would I add them for an Absorption test - those are different use of the same skill. I view Shielding/Absorption/Reflexion as three alternatives rather than cumulatives way to counter a spell.
Obviously YMMW, but I strongly advise to check that with your table/GM to be sure that everyone is on the same page.
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