Sounds like Windows Vista.

Like someone once said, in SR4, the Matrix became Windows with a bit of magic.

dear deity, i thought i was down on the deep end when ranting about weapon mounts and launch weapons...

Well, at least it didn't become OSX.

I think RvD said that, not me (though he has some points about the general level of nonexistent security measures).

While I work on my review of Gun Heaven, I've been going over the firearms with a fine tooth comb.

The MP9 is the best machine pistol. Between 1 innate recoil compensation and default FA mode, it's a great little package. You can get 8 RC for 1 mod slot (3 Gas Vent III barrel slot + 3 Hand Gyromount + 1 innate + 1 personalized grip). The 25 round clip is on the small side (2 FA IPs and 1 double BF IP), but if you really want you can extend it to 31 rounds. That's enough for 3 IPs firing FA which is good enough. If your GM allows it and you can find the RC needed, it'll make a decent base for a quite concealable HV SnS spammer too.

I'm debating the usefulness of the Jianshi. It's BF only and thus take 1 mod slots to fix. But it comes with a powered slide mount (how many mod slots I'm unsure, but my guess is 3). That's free mod slots and you can't buy those with love or money. The dual clips aren't anything special, but alright. Still on the fence on it though.

Edit- For bad math and writing. See Max's post for original mistakes

Don't you mean 3, that last one bullet makes for quite a pitiful FA burst

Why would you assume it has a more then one?

It's SA/BF so 1 mod slot should be enought, unless you planning to add SS mode too

You're right. At 31 rounds, it's 3 IP and 4 bullets left over on the fourth. That's still good enough.

Edit- You would typically reload on the 4 IP. But the fight should be wrapping up if not over at that point so you can burn a free (smartgun system) + simple action to reload.


I wrote that wrong. I mean how many slots you can use on the powered slide mount. It's got a maximum size between 1 and 5. Normally it takes up Mod Slots on Mount + 1 mod slots. However since it's an option, it takes up no mod slots. So how big is it? I think it's 3 because that lets you put a underbarrel weapon on it which seems fair.



I was looking thinking of the HV mod when I wrote that (that'll teach me to try to figure out how to build the FA HV assault cannon). Mea Culpa. I'm going to figure out what I can do with the powered slide mount. It has less innate recoil compensation than the Ares Alpha, but restricted legality. Pity that it's the most WTF? looking of all the weapons.

Huh, FA shoots 10 bullets, so by my math it's exactly 1 bullet left over, as my previous post said.

There you go using Math again...

I think Hida was using a Long + Short burst (which is also fully automatic fire, but not a full burst). Long = 6 shots, short = 3, that's 9 a round which would result in 4 bullets left over.

Max is counting 10 for a full burst, which would result in 1 bullet.

"Math is hard, let's bake cookies for the boys!" - Barbie

I love how the picture of the Enfield M1098 (page 5) is actually a SIG. (It looks to me like a P228 or P229.) It's photomanipulated just enough to take out the SIG branding and identification markings. And I wouldn't quite classify a P228 as a holdout pistol.

Should be good. Let me make that space based game a lot more fun. Ta.

Niiiiiice, I'm liking the Onotari XFactor III. Looks like one of my new go-to bullet hoses.

With an inherent dual-clip system, slap on an Extended Clip to raise the total round capacity to 76. Add a Gas Vent 3, a Folding Stock, an underbarrel Foregrip, Shockpad, and a Personalized Grip to give you 6 points of recoil compensation, 7 if you use the stock. And you still have an extra mod slot on the weapon to play with. It'll be able to fire 7 Full Bursts or 3 rounds of Suppression Fire without stopping to reload. Sink about 4,000 and buy two clips filled with Narcoject Capsule rounds, you can drop entire squadrons of guys with a weapon like this.

Not quite as good as the Praetor in terms of a pure bullet hose, but still pretty awesome.

Only problem is the Advanced Safety System doesn't work because the gun doesn't have a Smartgun System >.<

Well, you can use that one leftover slot for the smartlink, then.

Is there any explanation who's producing weapons under the "Enfield" name in the 2070s? IRL there hasn't been any firearms manufacturing at the Enfield site since the Royal Small Arms Factory closed in 1988.

Maybe SK picked up the trademark?

"This gun was designed to meet the perceived need for a small pistol to be issued to Royal Air Force crews during the EuroWars. It picked up some government sales, primarily to police and protective units that found the small size and enhanced ergonomic features useful. The M1098 is currently produced by Armamentos Murreta at their Cape Town facility." (Gun Heaven, p. 5)

I would guess it would be cheaper to market another gun to the government bureaucrats than to acquire a trademark (Enfield) and slap it onto a shrunken SIG P228. Just because the pistol was issued to the RAF crews doesn't mean they necessarily liked the weapon. How many military small arms are actually bought by the operators who use them? For spec ops, that fraction might be higher, but the rank-and-file get issued whatever they get issued.

"Always remember, your weapon was made by the lowest bidder." (Murphy's Laws of Warfare)

Enfield belongs to Integrated Weapons Systems, a subdivision of British Industrial, which is a subsidiary of Regulus Joint Enterprises.

I was thinking the same thing myself. But apparently, you only need a smartgun system to install the advanced safety as a mod not as an accessory. I guess the accessory has all its needs to run while the mod doesn't? Regardless, I'm surprised by the lack of smartgun systems among the newer weapons in this book.

As for my analysis of the clip of the MP9, I did the math using the 6 round long burst + 3 round short burst FA option and not the 10 round Full Burst FA option.

It's England, it's Tradition, likely a new factory was built on the site of the old one and the name came back into the use. Or there's another factory at Enfield Lock. Lots of possibilities.

Hawker-Siddley and BAC (British Aerospace Corporation) also appear in Shadowrun, which suggest the British aerospace & defense industry went a different way in the timeline, with the divergence starting as early as 1979.

Not if you buy the Smartlink as an external top-barrel mount

So, i just paged through this book.

Noticed a few guys come with built in powered slide mounts.


Has anyone stepped forth and clarified the SIZE of the powered slide mounts?
Because you kind of need to know how many modification slots you can use for an exchangible weapon modification. Guessing it tends to be 3, because thats the size for an underbarrel weapon.

Good job Devs, for not knowing your rules.

Could be a case of adding the slide mount, but forgetting to specify the value (or meaning to come back and set a specific value once they have done some evaluations). Still, there is also the non-smartgun with iff capability...

Actually, that's unfair. Not all writers are as blatantly ignorant of the rules as the person who brought us this file. I guess the most glaring mistakes were even taken out, considering his work on War ...

OK, that seems a touch harsh and too far, even for DumpShock. Let's all play nice, it's just a game after all, and a complex one at that. There will be issues that crop up.

That said, an answer would be nice.

OK, get us back on topic (Again): The Civilian Weapons with Internal Magazines, your thoughts!

Something to put in the hands of the wageslave who's apartment they happen to traverse during the improvised getaway?

Nice world building, but maybe 1 with mention about similar weapons would have been enough, sad to see 3 pages spend on such fluff weapons.

And targets of hostile extractions. And mugging victims. And people on the bus/monorail/subway. And...It's the Megas, they're going to be competing for market share. If the art was better, I'd be more than happy.

Declaring these weapons legal throughout the world is a very unpleasant case of ignorance, and one of the instances where the author's own political opinions shine through a lot more than they ought to. Also, it doesn't fit with most fluff at all.

That said, it's certainly a nice suprise for an American-focused campaign, to bring in local flavour (this counts all Ares compounds worldwide, too).

Why would internal magazines be so special though? It's not like today, in states that have a high civilian arms ownership rate, everybody has muskets?


Oh yeah, and that can really, really backfire for the team involved. Had one such game years ago.

Scenario: hostile extraction of corp scientist from lab. The team - rigger, amerind streetsam, decker, shaman - infiltrates all right, offs a few guards and stuffs them into closets. The streetsam then kicks in the door to the lab where the target was, and sends a few interns and assistants shrieking. And hoses them all down (he always brought his beloved Ingram Valiant LMG to every run for situations like these).

The target, some lear researcher, hides in a cubboard. The streetsam kicks in the cubboard too and the target, clearly freaked, waves around with a Streetline he keeps for personal defense, going all "no don't kill me I can kill you back!"

The amerind was wearing his light military warmour on that run. We played by SR1. The streetline was absolutly no threat. The amerind nonetheless executes the target with a long burst from his LMG. when the otherts ask him what the HELL he just did, he says: "The paleface drew a weapon on me. He insulted my honor as a warrior. It was a matter of prinicple!*"

I will agree that throughout the world is a bit of a reach (Especially in Japan. But don't forget just how bad the world is getting despite being shiny and happy compared to 2050s.).

Internal Magazines prevent rapid reloading either with a Speedloader or a Magazine (*Sighs* CLIP!), while still allowing for a home defense weapon that can be taught to the average user. Muskets are fairly complex in usage due to the fact that overloading the weapon with powder can be far too easily done (Not to mention what happens if you buy the wrong kind of powder!). Having them be light pistols, and the prevalence of armour used by Security Forces now, it makes a lot of sense in high-risk areas (Which, let's face it, is pretty much everywhere that isn't country! And if you're out there, you probably have a hunting rifle!).

Ares Citizens probably have better weapons available to them considering the heavily military influences the Corporation has. John Ares Wageslave might not pull out a Predator, but a Light Fire 70 is easily enough to see him be packing in his briefcase. Of the Ares Bowel Disruptor, the most intimidating revolver available in .38 Special!

Ah, an internal magazine's one of these "to reload insert every bullet you want to reload in slot 1 and waste precious seconds where you can and will be shot" mechanisms. So the usual eject clip/put new clip in is called external magazine?


Not thought of it like this, but it makes sense. Or if you scrape the barrel too much, I imagine. I guess that's in parts why those things aren't exactly widely used anymore (save for the Street Sweeper).


With the kinds of animals roming the countryside? I'd say an RPG or two are a bare nescessity. And even then there're critters you just cannot do anything about.


Sure, but where does that make these things any more legal than they already are? It's not like you couldn't buy a license for a gun like this. Maybe decree licenses cost half in "most" countries or something like that, but not "legal everywhere". Because it's not like the whole world is like the CAS. Especially Japan, but also the Britain, Euro-Tír, and Switzerland setting (which, considering IRL Switzerland is handing out assault rifles to every able male and requires by law them to keep it handy and in firing condition at any time, is bizarre in it's own right).


Considering Ares probably inherited DARPA, that makes perfect sense.

Or the humble shotgun, that can take on anything from foul to deer, depending on load. Hell, under SR rules it may even take on some paracritters...

Usually detachable magazine.

Yep. If you've ever played a FPS with a reloading system, think the shotgun from it. Or, if you've played Fallout: New Vegas, think of any of the Lever-Action weapons or the Hunting Shotgun. Here's a description of a Winchester Lever-Action Rifle that includes reloading. That is an internal magazine.

"Clips" in Shadowrun are called "Detachable Magazines", usually called "Box" magazines due to their shape. They are sometimes external (Like the large magazine in front of the trigger guard that you see on a M-16 or AK-47 on TV or in the movies.) and sometimes internal (Like any semi-automatic pistol you see on TV or in the movies, where the magazine is held in the pistol grip.).

Yeah, but I remember my first game of Rifts well, when I didn't realize there was SDC and MDC, and decided to go hunting... "You paint the forest in Venison." as the GM put it.

Not as bizarre as you'd think, as said able-bodied men are either currently serving in the military, or are in the reserves. Add to that the terrain that Switzerland is made up of, and you have a iron-clad reason to never, ever mess with that country in a military manner. Even with modern equipment, which they also have, BTW.

OK, I shall correct myself: "Civilian Longarm". Of course, if you can get your hands on one, a Battle Rifle will work just as well as long as you're not hunting small game.

Shotguns also allow for fowl hunting with birdshot, which is something that shouldn't be discounted either. Finally, the main advantage to being in the wilderness like this: There aren't too many cops around. Perfect for when the heat is on, no?

One thing I think the megas might do is put out an extremely "user friendly" firearm. Something under powered, with tagged ammo, and non-re-loadable (Just bring it back and we'll swap for a new one!).

Add in a small built in dedicated commlink that automatically calls for help as soon as shots are fired and perhaps some pepper spray and you get a personal defense and safety tool.

He ment that the SR Switzerland setting is bizarre because of that, not that the current situation is bizarre

Vending Machine Personal Defense Systems: Now available at select Stuffer Shacks!

"Why do they never put these things near where they're actually useful?" - Random Pedestrian

Exactly. The bizarre part is that they gave this up. After all, it eterred virtually any would-be conqueror for nearly 500 years now. Today's switzerland is the landscape of afghanistan combined with an affluent and hightech country that is convinced to live vaultec's dream. Did you know every swiss citizen had a guaranteed nuclear-proof shelter place reserved for them? or that Switzerland's defense strategy is that every valley is it's own fortress - with hangars and F-16 in every valley, complete with James Bond-ish fake rock hangar doors? And every valley is armed to give all surrounding valleys artillery support over the summits? That country is armed like crazy.

It's totally NUTS they'd just give that up, especially since SR switzerland actually is even more paranoid about an invasion.


Given there even is wilderness. In most of Europe, there is just dense and somewhat less dense population. Unlike America, with it's large cities separated by lots and lots of ... nothing much.

Actually some large tracts of Europe were de-populated during various events in the Awakening. Forests regrew, and in North Western France you have fogs that disappeared whole towns and small cities.

Okay, but those areas are just a no-go.

There's the SOX containment zone for a nuclear desaster, the wildlands in england and ireland that are populated by bad mooded fairies, the bretagne which is populated by malignant fairies, and the tox spill zone in poland which is populated by mutants and toxics. and that forest in galicia that eats people.

This is all seriously beyond where a shotgun with birdshot will be helpful.

Hey, it's always nice to have one for yourself, at the very least!

Or Canada, where our "Nothing Much" is what we call our cities.

Hey, it apparently works for you. Working in the hospitality biz in upstate NY, I encounter a lot of Canadians. And you know what? They're 1000% nicer than almost any American that comes through my hotel, no matter where they're from.

Then again, the Canadians could all just be awestruck by the booming metropolis that is Binghamton, NY. /Sarcasm


~R~

One of my tech support jobs having been servicing New York (City, admittedly), I think the issue might be that you're dealing with New Yorkers.

Personally, I have no idea why Canadians are as polite as we are. Then again, I'm a bloody jerk for a (Non-Francophone) Canadian.

EDIT: However, Newfies, on the other hand... But seeing as they were their own country at one time, might not count. Anyhow, give them Screech, and they'll be fine. Until it's time to start the bar fight.

You see, there's a reason why Binghamton (which hugs the Pennsylvania border) calls itself 'upstate New York". You can't get much further from upstate without being in the NYC area, but if we don't say that people confuse us with those assholes from the city. It's kind of like assuming everyone from Ontario is from Toronto, ya know?

Short version: Nope, that's not it, we hate those NYC slots too.



~R~

Why not? They think they're all that exists in Ontario.

Except for their cottages, of course.

Coming soon: Vending Machine Assassin Drones, Chose target set and contempt level ,drone self destructs upon termination of target .