Immunity to Normal Weapons is treated as armor, plus many of them actually have the Armor power.

I had always thought that ItNW was just the (*2) part?

Going back to overlooked stuff, don't know if anyone has pointed out the advantages of very cheap guns like the Colt L36 (150)

Very cheap doesn't mean much. necessarily, except for those mods where the price of the mod is based on the price of the gun.

You can slap an additional clip and an internal smartgun system on these weapons and they still come out cheaper than some of the competition.

Smart, Twin Clip Colt L36: 18 rounds, 450 Yen

MAD Undetectable Colt L36: 11 rounds, 1050 Yen (ok, that's not such a bargain - the puzzler is only 900 and is considerably better)

Underwater Colt L36 600 Yen - not that this includes electronic firing, which normally costs 1000 on its own.

Interesting, I will have to keep that in mind for the future.

My dusty memory didn't include that last line.

Time to upgrade, dood.




-k

At the core of the gun is a grinder that turns the bullets into flechette. It can also make great coffee

Use one that has never been fired, unless you have a hankerin' for a mocha shrapnel latte.

You sure about that? Cause all my Sliverguns use either cased flichettes (much like small shotgun rounds) or, since I prefer Caseless ammo (less ballistics evidence for them), the flichettes are "baked" into the propellant much like regular slugs are.

Hmm... people accuse me of misinterpreting the RAW in a stupid way, but...

Seriously, if the gun says it fires flechettes, then... it should fire flechettes. Especially when it cheats, already, there is no need to remove that. Give a gun some individuality, hell knows that once you take away cost and availability the things are similar enough.

Here's another snipped, from the Flechette ammo descripion, which implies that actual flechette ammo is used:


So I guess that means we actually have to pay 10nY a pop, even from the slivergun. I had just thought that we could get away with only paying 2.

.
Well, that's the thing. The gun description *doesn't* say it fires flechettes, it says it fires "metal slivers that count as flechette ammunition". Now, my interpretation of the RAI is that it can *only* fire that special ammo, but whilst that special ammo is not included in the equipment lists its probably a fair assumption that it costs the same as normal flechette ammo, for the sake of argument.

Now, me, personally, I figure it fires a stream of tiny needles at such a rapid pace that the needle-cloud is to all intents and purposes just like flechette, even though it isn't, and cannot load any other ammo type. (No idea what propellant it uses, sci-fi needle guns are usually compressed air or gaus, hence why the weapon is silent, but no mention is made of this). However, if it is considered to take *actual* flechette ammo, then as Miri points out, there is nothing in the RAW to say that you can't load it with any other ammo type.

Call it a rewrite when CGL should've settled for a copy-and-paste.

SR3 states:

Ares Viper Slivergun: This pistol fires flechette ammunition (which is already factored into its Damage Code). It has the range of a heavy pistol and features a built-in silencer (p277).

Realistically, it probably should be able to fire standard ball ammunition, but that's the trade-off for having a 30-round magazine. I always thought of it as using a non-standard caliber.

I wish I had the gauss rifle from Syndicate.

It was a long-range high damage weapon, that I didn't read the blurb on very thouroughly. I thought it was a sniping weapon. So for a political assassination, I stood my team behind the crowd and shot the target at the podium.

The blast wave ploughed a wide lane down the middle of the crowd, terminating in a big explosion that killed everyone on the dias. After blinking for a few seconds, I escaped as dozens of screaming, burning civilians ran every which way.

I loved that gun.

Took out the politico and a good size of his voting pool in one shot. Nice job!

Yes, the Slivergun can only fire its own special ammo (which 'counts as flechette').

Book and Page number that says that please? Cause I have looked and looked and can not find it anywhere it says that.

SR4A, Page 317. Right in the description of the weapon.



Seems pretty self explanatory to me.

That is not the same as "May only fire flichette ammo" as the writeup of the Mossburg shotgun has.

The Viper has been listed as 'fires flichette ammo' in 4 editions now. Or go back a decade, pull out your Cannon Companion, and turn to page 75 where 'slivergun' is defined. "Rather than firing bullets, it fires only flichette ammunition." The rule system may have changed since then, but the definitions haven't.

Don't forget that not everyone has those books. I only have copies of the 1st Edition rules because I got them used at a Con in town.

I dunno why people are always looking for the overtly evil loopholes. The Slivergun is rightly praised for being a heavy pistol with great ammo cap, burst fire, and silencing, right out of the box, for a reasonable price. To remove its only tradeoff is just mad. If it sounds too good to be true, *it is*.

Some people want that one perfect tool that can do everything. Personally, I think perfection is boring. Give me something with a little more character.

That's why I like the AK-97. It's got character, is reliable, dependable, and if you lose one, another one won't break the bank.

And, if problems occur, you can use it as a club.

I mean, that tool does exist, PeteThe1. A Crusader, a Smartgun X/P93, or an Alpha/88V can all be modded up to 11 for under 5 grand (which is nothing). It's just that the Slivergun does have character, like you say, because it's the only gun that specially and solely shoots little slivers.

Or you can get a gun that makes people little slivers. It's called the Panther Assault Cannon.

I meant more that if the Viper did allow regular ammo, it would then be boringly perfect. As is, I have no use for the thing, because I like having the non-lethal option available. Plus I imagine that, legal or not, police would doubly look over anyone carrying one, since its a weapon best suited for turning civilians into a red mess.

Back to the original topic I tend to pick specific weapon models based on the character, but classes are pretty universal. A light pistol for dress duty or situations when you're supposed to be armed but don't want to lug around a hand cannon. A heavy pistol for nearly everything else. A SMG when you need precision autofire but at closer ranges, and having some concealability is still important. And an AR when its open field, long range, and subtlety be damned.

Don't forget tasers. Those tend to be on par (overall) with light pistols as far as non-combat situations are concerned, but really do a number on living creatures.

Also, don't forget hunting rifles. Those tend to do as much damage as an assault rifle in burst fire mode but with a better range. They aren't any easier to hide, but you won't raise nearly as many eyebrows when you're carting one in your vehicle.

Sorry for bringing this up again: Of course what you say is perfectly true. But as a runner you would want to look at ALL the advantages - and while you are not specifically TRYING for the non-lethal option, the ability to reliably dish out stun to armoured opponents IS an advantage. And you're possibly doing more damage than with Gel rounds.

Gel are -/+2, so using my above considerations they end up at +1/-, exactly +1 DV, which is actually worse at dishing out stun damage than the Slivergun, but better than regular flechettes.

This is mechanics at work, and it also fits the fluff, as long as you count the P to S conversion as fluff as well.