QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Feb 10 2012, 10:20 AM)
You're simply not making sense, OneTrikPony. The rules I quote unambiguously fail to refer to Grade, nor upgrade-in-situ:Removal is the prerequisite, and removal creates the hole, not upgrading to a higher Grade (you *can* follow the removal with a higher Grade, but you don't have to). Incidentally, this is all the proof needed that you cannot upgrade in-situ; there is no mention of the possibility, only removal to upgrade, in this entire section on 'Upgrading 'Ware'.
also
QUOTE
If you've never heard something, that's not evidence. You're hearing it now
All right dude, I get it. You're gonna see it your way but you're making up rules. Page 128 of Augmentation says
only that if you remove an implant you get an essence hole. It says that that essence hole can only be filled with implants of the type; cyber or bio, that caused the essence loss in the first place. It refers specifically to implant grade but never to rating;
"If a character replaces an implant with one of a higher
grade, the new implant may well have a lower Essence Cost"
It even says that upgrading an implant may cause essence loss so
as an option a character could remove a different implant to create an essence hole.
Saying that upgrading rating of rated bioware items requires removal of the old grade is
your broad interpretation unfounded in any published material of any version 2,3,4,4a of shadowrun. Your quotes from the book do not support your argument. Prerequisite removal is not eve loosely implied.
I encourage anyone else reading this thread to check out page 128 of Augmentation for themselves before jumping on that train. Yerameyahu's house rule is a pretty extreme roadblock to advancing mundane characters in game.
QUOTE
Now, if we're speculating, it's easier to assume that Toner 4 is qualitatively distinct from Toner 2; higher-quality fibers, perhaps. Argument from failure of imagination is no good. In game rules terms, we know that Toner 4 is not Toner 2+2; as I said, there are also better examples, like Synaptic Booster.
LOL! Why would you say that your speculation is "easier to assume" than my speculation?
Yes, higher ratings have higher availability. I don't see any indication that availability = a 'qualitative' difference as opposed to a quantitative difference. Especially since the ratings scale linearly in effect two plus two does, infact equal 4. I really wish you'd stop making statements about what "
we know" I'm really not even sure why you're arguing about this. What does it matter if you get 1 level of cerebral booster installed for .2 essence and 10000¥ at chargen and another 2 levels installed for another .4 essence and 20000¥ later? You've still payed .6 essence and 30000¥, right?
QUOTE
Also, you say "That's not exactly RAW either. Transgenic treatments have an availability of 10R." The medical treatment does, but the bioware versions have "comparable Essence costs", as you quoted earlier.
What's your point? The black-and-white of it is that any bioware analogue transgenic treatment has an availability of 10r. Yes it's directly stated that essence costs are the same and ¥¥ costs are equivalent to the cost of the bioware, in which case they're usually cheaper. If availability were also equivalent it would have been simple to say so. They didn't. Any mention of availability is very conspicuously absent.
QUOTE (Aug p 93)
Most of the functional changes available through biotech (p. 61) are also possible through transgenic alteration for comparable Essence and nuyen costs but longer treatment times (typically several months).
I was being wishy-washy when I said that 'comparable availability' was "not exactly RAW". It's specifically not RAW. I agree that it should be but I'm not going to present my house rules as RAW.
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfe)
Those bonuses are not the same thing, though, in the world of Shadowrun. smile.gif
One is a RACIAL Bonus, the other is a GENEMOD bonus. NOT the same. smile.gif
So, what is your argument for the idea that a BIOWARE bonuses are the same thing as GENEMOD bonuses. Why does your premise apply here but not there?