Presumably, it's game balance. The rules aren't about realism, they're about making a game. Personally, no, I don't think it would wreck the balance, especially if Concealability rules are being used and matter… that slim pistol just got a lot bigger with a Drum Mag. Besides, we already learned in the Direct/Indirect thread that no one cares about ammo and never, ever runs out in SR, right?

But the AS-7 already *is* a drum-fed shotgun (24). It might be more acceptable to use a small extension of *that* capacity, instead of 100 shotgun shells. The sheer volume gets silly given the size of a shell, and the 100(d) *is* very clearly listed as SMG/AR.

Well, the byline does say (mostly) legit. Since it already has drum capability, I figured, 'why not?'.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is Exhibit A for my marksman. This is what I refer to as Dodgy Bait. Dodgy Bait sits between my marksman and the enemy, acts as a huge nuisance and distraction, and consequently causes the enemy to target Dodgy Bait of my marksman. There's also Tanky Bait, who can take damage a lot better than Dodgy Bait. Tanky Bait also acts as a distraction for Dodgy Bait and my marksman.

What's wrong with 100 round shotguns? Resident Evil 4 had one...but then again it also had an infinite ammo Hand Cannon too....



But yeah, i've considered a few changes to extended clip in particular...Mainly making it an accessory. Just like the normal clips. I thought it was funny that you can mod your weapon to take non-standard or custom clips, but then you still buy new spare clips at 5 each.

now if you make each extended clip you buy 100 and increase concealability by +1...may be a decent mechanic. or make it +100 /+1 concealabilty for each +25% ammo capacity?


But, that aside, my take on the extended clip was that the weapon is modded to take a more efficient magazine design without increasing concealment. Like modding a pistol to instead of stacking rounds in-line, stack them offset to eachother, requiring a wider magazine well.

Going from a single-stack to a double-stack (or even to a Casket) would indeed make sense ... for the flat 25% mod.

But not for the "oh now you can use a drum" mod.

Freeze shot: Capsule rounds, Freeze Foam R6
270 /10 rounds
Use rules for subduing combat (similar to rules for nets [AR 19]). Subdued characters roll Strength + unarmed combat against net hits. Each additional round increases the threshold by 1.

Freezer Burn
Base Weapon: Auto-assault 16
comes with Gas Vent 2
Mods:Personalized grip, heavy barrel, Foregrip, Sling
Accessories: Shock Pad, Smartgun system (top mount), Underbarrel Flamethrower (Shiawase Blazer)
Total Cost: 17900

Load with Freeze Shot. Lock a room down and then start the slow cook. Perhaps if your a chemist you can mix something in with the freeze foam to make it flammable...

Alternatively, you can load it with Flechete rounds and lay down some suppressive fire (using only 10 rounds), or use the flamer for some flaming suppression. Or just load some other fun rounds and make use of that 7 RC

You do know that the Enfield has a Drum Assembly Already? It holds 24 Rounds. Right there in the Book, even.

TJ, you are just ninja bait this whole week. I already said that… plus, they're talking about the mod in general terms.

Personally, I kind of like the idea mentioned: extended clips are a basic accessory, offering moderate capacity increases in exchange for some cost and some (possibly significant) Conceal penalties. There could be (as mentioned) a 'stealth' extension mod, that allows modest capacity increases *without* the conceal penalties (or reduced).

Lucy aka Earsplitter
Base weapon: Ares Screech Sonic rifle
Mods:Large Firing selection change (FA), Additional clip
Acc: Smartgun system (topmount)
Total Cost: 26400

When you want to put that heavily armored troll down in a hurry without killing him, this is the weapon to use. Deals 5S damage but targets Will instead of body, and completely ignores armor (sound dampeners give 2 dice to resist, and silence spell helps quite a bit, but otherwise...nothing but will). Kick it on to full auto and get +9 DV to the attack for a whopping 14S that is unlikely to be resisted (working on the assumption that, like lasers, this would not create any recoil). And with 2 clips, you get 2 shots of this before reloading. And since it allows you to use choke rules similar to shotgun (for determining number of targets and DV, not AP since it ignores armor) you can go on wide spread and hit up to 3 targets within a meter of each other for 10S+net hits each!

(I think I love this one)

Options: you can swap the large firing selection change for a small and save on 3 mod slots and shave almost 10k off the price. With this you can still do SA fire allowing you to do 5S +net hits twice a round. This may be better than the full auto mode in the long run if you can get a decently high dice pool with this. Other mods that you could then consider would be Extended clip, or underbarrel shotgun loaded with Freeze shot.

Yeah, I just noticed, on the new page. I guess I forgot to light myself on fire first...

I'd be real leery of burst-fire with the Screech. It kinda makes no sense. It already does narrow-to-wide beam innately, so it's not like you need it for AoE. There's no particular reason that hitting someone 3+ times all at once (narrow burst) would have a greater effect; this is the same as the lasers. SA seems fine.

Besides, if you're assuming that it acts like bullets (narrow burst), you should give it recoil. Live by illogic+RAW, die by illogic+RAW! Hehe. Just kidding, this would still be stupid-OP.

Just as a first-blush look at how it could be done as an accessory:

• Standard clip (+0% capacity, +0 conceal), 5 each
• Extended Clip S (+20% capacity, +1 conceal), 10 each
• Extended Clip M (+50% capacity, +1 conceal), 20 each
• Extended Clip L (+80% capacity, +2 conceal), 30 each
• Extended Clip X (+100% capacity, +2 conceal), 40 each
• Drum S (+200% capacity (min 20, max 50), +3 conceal), 50 each
• Drum M (+300% capacity (min 50, max 100), +4 conceal) , 75 each
• Drum L (+400% capacity (min 100, max 250), +5 conceal), 100 each
• Drum X (+500% capacity (min 250, max 150), -- conceal), 150 each (yes, for concealability the -- means "fat chance you fail ha ha" ...!)

The L and X drums would be intended for crew-served weapons, and might require the use of a gyromount, tripod, or bipod (or that the gun be mounted to a vehicle).

And of course, one option would be to not have the full-sized magazine/drum already inserted into the weapon - but then, you're trading the concealability penalty for having to spend the first initiative pass loading the weapon, rather than shooting.

And, the Extended Magazine modification could be changed to "Expanded Capacity" - suitable not just for clip-based guns, but also internal-(m)agazine weapons as well.

And while we're at it, let's fix "Improved Cylinder" to be, say, a flat +2-round increase (or similar), so that weapons with other than 6-round cylinders get a fair benefit ...

No, no, I can see it - but, it's not just firing the same frequency sound with eadch pulse. Perhaps it's sending out high-intensity "chirps" of differing frequencies / modulations, so that one or more of those bursts of sound happens to be "just right" to do nasty things to it's target?

I dunno if RL physics would support that notion, but it'd work somewhat reasonably for SF-game physics ... yes?

Except that...Its a SS weapon, so its still fired as a simple action. This means its not a "stream" of damaging sound, but instead a burst (sound peaks at a certain amplitude and quickly falls off). Being SS implies that it does this and then requires a period of time to prepare for the next burst. If this is the case, then modding to FA would mean that you are getting hit with a quick succession of bursts. And your logic that hitting someone 3+ times all at once wouldn't have any greater affect is flawed. If you are putting 3+ shots into someone, then your putting 3+ times as much energy into their body. That SHOULD have a greater affect in my opinion.

And regarding recoil, There's no recoil at all on lasers...its in the rules. That includes SA. And if your able to get SA attacks with lasers with no recoil, bursts wouldn't have recoil either. And yes, if you could burst lasers they would do more damage because of the same principle i mentioned above. A 10 GW laser hitting one 3 times, puts 3 times as much energy as the same laser doing so only once since that 10GW represents how much energy it transfers over a given time. more time = greater amount of energy transfered

I would love to se a 10 GW Laser fire, just once.

"Burst" lasers would be .... wait for it ... PULSE LASERS. Real-world concept, too.

ETA: TJ, that laser firing would probably be the LAST thing you ever see. There's a company that sells 1-watt laser pointers. Those can blind someone, permanently, if you aim it at their eyes within ... I think it's 20 or 30 meters. 10 billion watts? Feck man, if you're within a kilometer of the beam path, you're instantly blind AND the *crack* of so much air instantly transubstantiating to plasma will knock the building you're standing in flat down to the ground.

O_O

I believe a company just fired a 4 TW laser recently...don't remember the exact number but it was multiple TWs. Used for Fusion ignition.

Indeed...

WOW... Impressive.

Here's the article, and it was 500 TWs....

WOW...

ZeroPoint, SS doesn't imply that it's a *very short* burst of sound, of the kind appropriate for firing 10 of them at once. Like I said, SA seems fine.

Pax, while pulse lasers exist, they're also not what we seem to have in SR4 (with BF, FA), and a firing *selection* mod hardly seems adequate to make that change.

And of course, the *obvious* game-balance concerns do matter. The exotic, armor-ignoring, etc. nature of this weapon certainly merits considering the effects of applying these various rules… that were written for bullets.

Sure modding it to SA would be a simple mod....and modding it to do FA would be a large modification, perhaps installing a series of supercapacitors that can charge and discharge in quick succession allowing burst fire modes.

Again, assuming a multi-'shot' burst would do anything, assume we don't care about balance, etc.

it costs 26000 and can only do twice before reloading. At least its non-lethal...

Well, friend made a comment on the grapple gun i did and got me thinking and with the recent release of Dark Knight Rises I thought of something else fun.

Baterang
Base weapon: Boomerang (AR 18)
Mods: Custom Look lvl 1
Total Cost: 150


Explosive Baterang
Base Weapon: Aerodynamic grenade
Mods: Custom look lvl 1
Total cost: as Grenade + 100

No, my gun bunny is a "traditionalist" who wants a guns that shoots christmas trees. As ammunition. nyahnyah.gif
~Umi

"Now I have a gun too - Ho, ho, ho."

-Tir

Fixed that for you.

~Umi

If we're going by Dark Knight Rises...

Knockout Baterang
Base weapon: Boomerang
Mods: Custom Look Rating 1, Underbarrel Weapon: Injection Dagger (AR German)
Ammo: Narcojet
Total Cost: 950

I was inspired by this image to create some katarguns (easily confused with equally-awesome guitarguns). I couldn't decide which firearm to use with it, so I designed it to be a modular weapon that can accept various forms of weapons to be attached to it. I also created a secondary "fluffy" weapon to round out the "brochure". Here are the base katarguns (not bass guitarguns! ):

Zero Arms, Inc. Style Katar
Zero Arms, Inc. is a small, but growing, corp based out of Calcutta. Their focus is on the development of unique weaponry. They cater to the local kshatriya, or warrior caste, and market their weapons not just for their efficiency, but for their style. The Style Katar is one of their more popular weapons. It combines the classic punch dagger with an underbarrel pistol to create a versatile weapon system. It also ships with AR-enhanced features, chosen by the customer, such as covering the blade in crackling lightning or creating a fiery blade arc using the internal accelerometer. The customer may also use a pair of AR gloves to order a personalized grip for the weapon for the ultimate online ordering experience.
Base Weapon: Katar
Mods: Custom Look Rating 1, Gecko Grip, Lanyard, Personalized Grip, Underbarrel Weapon (Onotari Arms Security Special)
UBW Mods: Electronic Firing, Trigger Removal, Melee Hardening
Availability: 9R
Total Cost: 3,035
Concealability: Huh? You're stylin' and profilin'! Besides, if you're waving this thing around, you probably have a valid SIN and license for it, anyway.

Zero Arms, Inc. Tactical Stealth Katar
Zero Arms, Inc. also has a "premium catalog" for the professional crowd who have no desire for a flashy weapon - merely one that can get the job done, or rather, several jobs done at will. The Tactical Stealth Katar is one such weapon found in this catalog - a stripping-down and fixing-up of their Style Katar. It features a modular system that allows the user to attach a different custom firearm to the frame without affecting grip. [This probably doesn't work in real life at all, but I thought it would be cool. ] It also features a ruthenium polymer-coated blade composed of advanced materials that are not as easily detected by a MAD system and a secure skinlink system that interfaces with the wireless-disabled firearms.
Base Weapon: Katar
Mods: Ceramic/Plasteel Components Rating 1, Chameleon Coating, Lanyard, Personalized Grip, Powered Slide Mount Rating 3, Personalized Grip
Availability: 12F
Total Cost: 10,820
Concealability: 0 (+3 with UBW)
And to go with it...

Anti-MAD
Base Weapon: Izom PHP-131, Removed Laser Sight
Mods: Exchangeable Weapon Modification, Chameleon Coating, Electronic Firing, Melee Hardening, Smartgun System, Trigger Removal
Accessories: HK Urban Fighter Silencer (GM permission required, of course.)
Availability: 13F
Total Cost: 4,250
RC: 1
Concealability: -4
Notes: Hey, you can sneak your gun in with your katar now! No room for an internal Silencer, but you could always trade it for the Chameleon Coating. You could also ask to apply the Ceramic/Plasteel Components rules to a standard Silencer accessory, or just go without!

Silent Ops
Base Weapon: Yamaha Sakura Fubuki, Detached Folding Stock
Mods: Exchangeable Weapon Modification, Electronic Firing, Smartgun System, Sound Suppressor, Trigger Removal
Availability: 12F
Total Cost: 5,700
RC: 1
Concealability: -2
Notes: With subsonic ammunition, you're looking at a -9 to Perception tests to notice this weapon being fired, i.e., good fragging luck chummer. No room for Melee Hardening on this one, but silent work shouldn't need to worry about that. Also consider the Ingram Smartgun X - it's cheap and comes along with many of the mods that go on here anyway. But, it's an SMG, so it might be considered cheesy, even though it looks kind of like a machine pistol to me.

Burst Fire
Base Weapon: Onotari Equalizer, Removed Laser Sight and Folding Stock
Mods: Exchangeable Weapon Modification, Electronic Firing, Extended Clip, Folding Stock (Powered), Melee Hardening, Smartgun System, Trigger Removal
Accessories: Gas Vent 3
Availability: 10R
Total Cost: 3,900
RC: 5
Concealability: +2
Fully compensated for BF, can perform FA in a pinch. I chose the Equalizer for the -1 AP, but the FN 5-7C can get an additional point of RC. Or go with the B&P MP9 if you can figure out how to keep the foregrip.

Shotgun Functionality
Base Weapon: Shiawase Arms Riot Guard
Mods: Exchangeable Weapon Modification, Barrel Reduction, Electronic Firing, Extended Clip, Folding Stock (Powered), Smartgun System, Trigger Removal
Availability: 12R
Total Cost: 6,320
RC: 3
Concealability: +5
Notes: This one is a little bit cheesier because it's a big shotgun instead of a pistol. You'll want some form of outside RC for this if you intend to fire it in BF mode. Ask your GM if it can take a Gas Vent like the Auto Assault-16 - after all, he's already letting you stick a shotgun on your katar grip.

Range Adaptation
Base Weapon: Hammerli 620S
Mods: Exchangeable Weapon Modification, Barrel Extension, Electronic Firing, Improved Range Finder, Melee Hardening, Smartgun System, Thermal Suppressor, Trigger Removal
Availability: 10F
Total Cost: 3,900
RC: 2
Concealability: -1
Notes: Can fire out to 22 meters without penalty, and out to 44 at only -2 dice!

I would like to imagine someone owning one of these, and carrying the attachments on a combat load vest, swapping them out as needed. Better than carrying around 13 different kinds of weapons! That's right, I'm looking at you, Weapons Specialist. >_>

That's kind of what I envision of the HK XM30 - an Assault Rifle version of the blaster rifle from Republic Commando.

Yeah, I was also inspired by the HK XM30 modular weapons platform. But instead of an Extended Test, switching weapons out only takes three Simple Actions and one Free Action (Remove Exchangeable Weapon Modification > Drop Object > Pick Up Object > Insert Exchangeable Weapon Modification), so you could theoretically swap out a weapon and fire a different one during your next pass.

Guitar Gun
Ares Screech Sonic Rifle
+Camouflage 1 (Guitar)
+Secondary Functionality (Guitar)
Availability: 16
Total Cost: 8,508

It looks like a guitar, it plays like a guitar, and it can project sound waves that will make you evacuate your bowels. The ultimate in shredding technology! I kept the ratings low due to the failure pool, but if the optional rule is not used feel free to make it more authentic.