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Garvel
QUOTE (Cabral @ Oct 9 2012, 04:37 PM) *
SR4A includes the limit, I believe on page 199, but I'm away from my book. There is no limit, that I remember seeing on an individual focus' rating, but the total rating is limited to magic x 5. So after character generation, a character could technically get/create and bond a rating 30 weapon focus. Now, I have no idea what the actual odds are of creating or finding something that obscene.

Note that you should not exeed a total rating of magic x 2 if you want to avoid the risk of focus Addiction.
QUOTE
The gamemaster can call for a Focus Addiction Test at any time she feels the player is abusing foci; a good guideline is whenever a character has a total Force of active foci in excess of twice their Magic attribute. When a character fails the Focus Addiction Test, she gains the Focus Addiction Negative Quality
(Digital Grimoire p. 8 )

To most GMs, using a level 30 focus is where "feels the player is abusing foci" will apply. wink.gif
Cabral
QUOTE (Garvel @ Oct 10 2012, 08:24 PM) *
To most GMs, using a level 30 focus is where "feels the player is abusing foci" will apply. wink.gif

Just because it may be equivalent to buying the limited time flaw, doesn't mean that it's not an excuse to apply for volume discounting at Chessex... wink.gif
StealthSigma
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Oct 10 2012, 07:45 PM) *
Really? I have had absolutely no issues with it as written. What is so confusing and convoluted to you?


The book is organized poorly. Just look at what happened to me regarding unarmed damage from bone lacing. The text in the augments description (which I always read first to know if it's something worth looking up) just says that it deals physical damage. There's no indication within the text that damage of your unarmed attacks is also altered. You must either reference a table in the combat section (which is what I did) or realize that a small little table physically separated from the pricing and availability of the bone lacing has your information. Both of which are poor solutions since it was never indicated in the first place that your unarmed damage undergoes any change other than from stun to physical.

PnP rulebooks are reference books, and as such should be laid out in a concise manner that bloody well makes sense. SR4a made some huge improvements in layout over the original BBB, but there's still a lot of problems. The combat chapter is still makes me want to go eugh over how attacking and defending is laid out and if the matrix section were well written and laid out you wouldn't have nearly as many people confused over it.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (StealthSigma @ Oct 11 2012, 05:26 AM) *
The book is organized poorly. Just look at what happened to me regarding unarmed damage from bone lacing. The text in the augments description (which I always read first to know if it's something worth looking up) just says that it deals physical damage. There's no indication within the text that damage of your unarmed attacks is also altered. You must either reference a table in the combat section (which is what I did) or realize that a small little table physically separated from the pricing and availability of the bone lacing has your information. Both of which are poor solutions since it was never indicated in the first place that your unarmed damage undergoes any change other than from stun to physical.

PnP rulebooks are reference books, and as such should be laid out in a concise manner that bloody well makes sense. SR4a made some huge improvements in layout over the original BBB, but there's still a lot of problems. The combat chapter is still makes me want to go eugh over how attacking and defending is laid out and if the matrix section were well written and laid out you wouldn't have nearly as many people confused over it.


While book organization may contribute to the problem, I have not noticed it for me. I see what you are saying, though.

BUT, I do not find the Martial Arts section to be beholden to poor layout or organization. And this was what I was curious about. I do not understand what is so confusing about the Marital Arts Abilities/Forms, which was what I assumed Xenefungus was complaining about. Maybe I was wrong about that assumption. smile.gif
Xenefungus
No, you are right Tymeaus. The problem with the Martial Arts section is that the styles *play no role* at all. What the rules work out like finally is this:

QUOTE
For 5BP/10Karma you can choose one of the following benefits. Each one can only be taken once unless its description says otherwise:

+1 DV unarmed (maximum level 3)
+1 DV blades (maximum level 2)
+1 DV clubs
[...]
(it follows a list of all benefits available)


It is obvious that this would have been much shorter, more concise and easier to get than what is currently in the book. There is just no need to mention "+1 DV unarmed" at a dozen places for different styles when it ultimately *does not matter* which style you actually get it from. Do you see my point?
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Xenefungus @ Oct 11 2012, 03:31 PM) *
No you are right. The problem with the Martial Arts section is that the styles *play no role* at all.


That is funny, they have a tremendous role in our games (at least for the characters that I play). You just have to make it have a role.
Ther eis nothing inherently tehre, no, but that does not mean that there has to be nothing.

Much like the Traditions of Magic. You can have a great deal of difference in the Traditions, if you put in the effort; or you can have none and complain that the Traditions are too identical to each other, only differentiating in their Drain stat and Spirit Choices. *shrug*

Guess which option I prefer. smile.gif

I do understand if you go the other route, mind you, I just do not agree that there is no differences, or that there is no role. *shrug*
UmaroVI
Tymaeus, I'd agree with you if the styles themselves were more tied to the benefits they offered. As-is, a lot of them are weird, like Krav Maga being the art for gunfighters or Tai Chi helping you intimidate people. I'd rather just have a list and figure out what martial art a character uses myself than use a poorly-done advantages system like the one in place, which is generally what I do anyways.

Traditions aren't as bad, although I feel the same way about some of the places they have issues. Some are well written up, others seem like the writer skimmed the Wikipedia article, and there's things like Sun not working with the Druidic tradition (despite the flavor text saying it does), or Wushi not actually summoning spirits that match the five rings (Air, Fire, Water, Earth...Guidance? Seriously, at least Guardian would sort of work as metal).
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (UmaroVI @ Oct 11 2012, 05:45 PM) *
Tymaeus, I'd agree with you if the styles themselves were more tied to the benefits they offered. As-is, a lot of them are weird, like Krav Maga being the art for gunfighters or Tai Chi helping you intimidate people. I'd rather just have a list and figure out what martial art a character uses myself than use a poorly-done advantages system like the one in place, which is generally what I do anyways.

Traditions aren't as bad, although I feel the same way about some of the places they have issues. Some are well written up, others seem like the writer skimmed the Wikipedia article, and there's things like Sun not working with the Druidic tradition (despite the flavor text saying it does), or Wushi not actually summoning spirits that match the five rings (Air, Fire, Water, Earth...Guidance? Seriously, at least Guardian would sort of work as metal).


I do not always agree with the relationship between styles (both Martial Arts and Traditions) as described, and their related benefits/effects. These particular bits were a result of very poor research and development on someone's part. No arguments on that one. Though it is easily addressed, if you want it to be, and actually care enough to do so. *shrug*
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