Wh ya dry-erase? Because monitors are expensive, and it helps for brainstorming and coming up with plans.

Sir, I commend you for the dry erase idea. I'll have to steal it now, though.

It's also handy for a rousing game of Pictionary when you find yourself between runs.

Exactly. Or inane comments.

Or maybe a nice illustration of you kissing my ass.

In today’s world weapons rarely malfunction. It is a myth of the movies when the riffle jams at a critical moment. 4 years in the army and probably 20 thousand rounds through my M-16 and it malfunctioned a total of one time.

My H&K .45 which I have probably put 2 thousand rounds through has never, ever malfunctioned. On top of that, all the guns I have fired in my whole life, I can't recall a single problem. And I shoot a lot more than the average guy. And yes, I understand about battlefield conditions, but if you give a damn about your weapons those conditions will have very little affect if any at all. You keep your weapons clean. If you are slugging through the muck you make damn sure your riffle/pistol isn't.

As for what my characters carry,

Colt Manhunter or H&K USP Match in a shoulder rig.
Cougar knife if they know how to use it. FFBA III and a secure long coat for sure. Some com. equipment if possible. And a couple of mags of extra ammo.

I carry no less than two katanas, a ninja-to, a full load of fifteen shiruken, five aerodynamic HE grenades, and frequently and obscenely flaunt my illegal cybernetics but nobody sees me because I'm such a pimptastic cyborg ninja. Oh, and I have my FFBA III on with the gloves, hood, AND boots because with my Lined Long Coat, nobody would totally notice it.

Now that is sarcasm.

Without being sarcastic...Regular clothing, a shoulder rig or such with a light pistol of some sort and a couple of clips of spare ammo, and a Secure Jacket.

Yep. And the no-daichi. Did I mention my character was also Japanese? I think I should.

Anyway...EVERYTHING in my concealed gear that I can dikote is probably dikoted, too. Because I love Dikoting. It's so awesome and makes my katanas do more damage!

It was usually either a Browning Max-Power or a Narcojet pistol in a concealable holster under a shirt or coat. A folding baton and one of the martial arts, usually brawling, at something like skill level three or four in case I needed to whack someone over the head without having to resort to a gun. And armour-wise, armoured clothing, Form-fitting Body Armour 2 and a jacket of some kind if it was cold or wet out.

Why, I hear it happened in Vietnam and WW2, too. Well, I guess those were just big movie lies propogated by Hollywood. Damn!

"I think a lot of the pistols in the shadowrun world would malfunction a whole lot, actually. Think about it. Most weapons are produced by Ares or someone with greatly similar corporate interests. Ares is also in charge of security in a lot of situations. They know exactly which weapons commonly make it to the street. I imagine most of the market for things like Ares Predators comes from low-lives like shadowrunners, who aren't really going to be taking advantage of a factory warrantee. If I were Ares, I'd purposely sell defective equipment. On one end, I'd be making sure that a lot of my opposition was using weaponry that wasn't reliable, and on the other end, my big worry would be liability. Only it wouldn't, because as a megacorp, I'd be immune to consumer protection laws. The way I see it, weapon reliability in the shadows would be a victim of the Class War."

Of course. Corps do that today. It's called "planned obscolescense" or something like that. They purposefully produce a certain low percentage of their products to...well...break. Greed.

Oh, and BTW, go read the Shadowtalk for...oi...one of the old gun books. FoF, maybe. Yes, that's it. Check Savalette Guardian. They talk about how some of the pieces are just plain fucked up.

Oh, and by the way, I'd say that a lot of the corps are well aware that some of their items will...fall off the back of a truck, in a bad neighborhood (ie, they put overstock on the street). This might be where many of the ones they know are malfunction-ey end up.

Even though she never fired her weapon and was the subject of massive propaganda, their weapons did jam at critical times.

In fact, weapons jam at critical times on the battlefield fairly often. That's just how it works. If you think differently, you're completely fucking wrong and should go read some books.

and you should stop letting the degenerates in Hollywood corrupt your sense of reality.

I prefer to make judgements based on experience not what I read in books/see in movies.

Weapons jam. End of story. Magazine-fed (note I do not say clip...) weapons are more likely to do so than, say, a revolver or bolt-action. Of course, most commonly occuring problems like a jam or double feed can be easily fixed in a matter of seconds, but apparently they aren't teaching that in the Army anymore.

Hear, hear, Solstice. Although I wish I had a Beretta magazine that held 200-300 rounds like in Underworld...

Edit - oh yeah, I carry a custom revolver (10M, 7cy, conc 6, Ceramic 3) in a concealed holster with a (you guessed it) lined coat. FFF 3, secure ultra-vest.
And spirits. Lots of those.

Maybe you should give some credit to books written by soldiers who've seen far more combat than you or I are likely ever to. Jams happen, and they happen at the worst of times because no time is a good time for a jam. Do bad movies tend to accentuate this? God yes. But don't write it off as movie bullshit. It happens, and it's very bad when it does.

Can most jams be fixed quite easily? Yes, most can. In combat conditions? Not quite so much. Combat is far less forgiving than shooting on a range or at geese.

I do give credit, in fact, I was agreeing with you.

EDIT - I see. I was agreeing with solstice on the unbelievability of Hollywood's treatment of firearms, I was not saying they don't jam at critical times.

Eh, it's always more dramatic to have the gun jam timed correctly. Although, I will point out that having any weapon jam at any point when people are shooting at you could be construed as happening at "the worst possible time."

It's the same reason why heroes in Hollywood don't die even when they act stupidly.

Some people call it luck, writers call it creative license.

All the heavy gear or battle-kit my character keeps locked down and generally speaking, not in his daily flat or transport since either are prime for burglary, theft, etc.

-Siege

Unless a solid degree of realism has been maintained thus far during the game (or movie or book or whatever media), it can really come off as simply contrived. But, if executed well, I agree, I like what it can do for a narrative and the characters in it. Even the potential threat of a jam really changes things, which is a very good dymanic to have if the game can handle it without bogging down play quite painfully. I've yet to see a way to do this, however.

Also, yeah, was an argument I was going to mention: if you're in combat, any jam happens at an inopportune time. If you're firing your weapon, you absolutely need it to work.

One more set of everyday gear:

FFBA 1
Securetech armor clothing (casual, or suit if that is more appropriate)
Morrissey Alta in a concealable holster, loaded with gel rounds
one spare clip of gel and two of Ex ammo
a small monoknife
wrist computer, cellphone, a small backpack or briefcase, real ID (licensed critter hunter, with permit for the gun I carry), some empty datachips and some filled datachips (maps, music, some work-related data), some certified cred

When I expect rough neighborhood or problems:
FFBA 2
armored vest with plates
forearm guards (not always)
cut&puncture resistant gloves (no game stats for these, but sometimes useful anyway)
micro transceiver
rest as above

And of course my magic, I'm a smartlinked combat hermetic with skill incompetence/conjuring.

I do my best to please.

In a longer range battlefield, pulling the charging handle certainly isn't a big deal. With many assault rifles your job is even easier if you get a jam, and I doubt there are many ARs in use by major armies in the world that are significantly more difficult to un-jam than an M16.

In CQB, though, getting a jam is a major SNAFU. Consider the times you survive in America's Army: Ops CQB when you get a jam -- and in that game, a jam can be removed in 1.5 seconds flat even while running or diving prone.

I don't want to get into an argument again, though. I just want to bring out the other side of the issue. Sometimes it's a big deal, sometimes it isn't.

Jams do occur, but much less frequently than is made to seem. Bringing WW2 and Vietnam into the mix is just a completely asanine thing. WW2 weapons were quite a bit less reliable than moddern firearms. In addition, i've read very little about jams(maybe the people whop got'em are dead?).

Jessica lynch, is there NOT a reason to disbelieve the story? It's been changed so much, but i'm hardly interested in that horrible episode.

Now, What do you carry for assaults?

Typically, i work with an ES7, or a T-250. If using the T-250, i frequently carry a smg of some sort(Uzi III or AK-97). I like to have a selection of grenades. Atleast one IR smokey for those really bad times. Knife and any mission specific gear.

Ok, that look's bad. But what I'm saying is is there any reason to believe anything about that?

I wonder if americas army uses a realistic frequency of jams. They may well have used real world statistics to decide how often they should occur considering the emphasis on realism in that game.

...unless your players insist on their characters firing their pistols "gangster style", i.e. holding them sideways. Then they should jam often. Roll a d6, on a 1 it jams.
This is partly true (it CAN make a pistol jam more often, depending on the pistol) and partly because it's stupid, they're supposed to be professionals, and should damn well fire a gun like someone who's used one before!
/end rant

Both my recent memory characters are mages, so they can make do without carrying weapons.. however.

In regular, routine life he always carried a Walther Palm Pistol in a concealed quickdraw holster, smartlinked (no SL-2 available). Two shots in a short burst equals 6L, and even with a modest throw of six dice (3 skill + 3 combat), I bet I can reach a TN 4 (point blank 2, +4 called shot, -2 SL) enough to give you a mighty rude wakeup call. Especially when your face has no armour on it.

Hey, be creative, load alternate ammo. Watch those damage codes go up, up, up.

There's a whole other thread lambasting holdout pistols, but they're excellent at what they are: A last ditch effort.

If he was going somewhere that heavier ordinance was possible, it would be the holdout plus a Ruger Superwarhawk. What, single shot gotcha down? That's OK, I'll connect and do that much more damage than you will double tapping that SA Predator, too. First simple action, I am. Second simple action I shoot. Plus a SL equals to -4 for each shot I make. Extra speedloader or two and I'm good.

A "run," you say? Then in addition to the two above, there was the Enfeld AS7 shotgun, which is very nearly the best one in the game (wanna argue the Franchi SPAS? Go for it, cause trust me, I've been down that road..) for assault duties or a Remington 950 for longer distance work. Through mag-3 I get some serious range and can decide to lob a spell or a slug at 'em. Yes, the WA2100 is better (and I was better with it), but all thigns considered a Rem 950 was vastly cheaper and easier to come by than a WA2100. For ammo, I would carry an extra few mags' worth of loose bullets in the case of the longguns, and for the scattergun a drum of regular, and a magazine or three of gel and/or flechette. Again, magazines with different ammo types to be dictated by the situation, but its always nice to mix and match.

Of course, I just retired him for a Magician's Way Adept. That makes for a different set of skills, but I can still rely on magic to carry me through. He'll have the same holdout rig as above, and for the same reasons, and his second piece is a Viper Slivergun, which we'll explain why in a second.

See, since the gaming focus changed, the conceptualized character changed (and also, I'm used to this DM's style and am able to tailor things to work better in his rather realistic world with the SR abstract combat system. I envisioned this character as far more capable on "shadowruns" and more to the point, stealthy penetrations.

In these situations, in addition to the hold out pistol, then there's also the Slivergun with a mag-3 scope and, if you can argue its stupid for a HP to NOT mount a laser sight under, a LS. People don't think about the sheer usefulness of magnification systems on handguns, but look at any serious racegun and you're assured to find at the very least a big ole reddot on top of it. The slivergun is downright DEADLY. Integral silencer (I mean, if you're making a run, you ARE being stealthy, right? RIGHT??), capable of burst fire, and an unprecedented magazine with thirty rounds! As those ranges increase, the called shot number difference goes down (I mean, everyone min/maxes a little) and I bet lots of your usual opponents aren't going to be wearing helmets. Silent, deadly, and with a mag and laser (or, for those who can, slink'd) accurate. A pair of extra magazines will provide you with all the ammo you should need for damned near run.

OK, OK, so there's times where stealth fails and its time to rock and roll. That's when you break out the AK-97. 38 rounds, cheap, common, efficent. Your choice, gas venting or a sound supressor (although, again, if the assault rifle is out for use, the time for stealth is probably over). Put that bayonet on front, and you have an STR+2/M, +2 reach polearm that you can also smash with the butt to do stun damage, or pop off the bayonet and you've got a knife. Perfect, modular system.

Edit: Oh, yeah. IR smoke and/or flashbangs. One of each, or maybe two of one. Not the most stealthy, but sometimes you've got to cover your retreats.

I am convinced that between the Viper and the AK97/bayonette combo I won't ever need to resort to another weapon. Yeah, there's times where the opposition runs to heavily armoured, so I can swap out that Viper for something that fires regular ammo, but otherwise, I've got stealth, preciscion, and outright firepower all to bear in different ways.

Yeah, this probably wasn't the thread for this, but I'm at work, on lunch, and feel like babbling. Hey, I did cover concealed weapons and someone did mention what do you take on an assault..heh.

Predators are my primaries and Colt L36s are my backups.

for concealable it depends.. i like to use gernades as a conceable weapon.

MCB: Then look at MP40s, Thompsons, Greaseguns, StG44s, etc. We can also include the japanese, and italian rifles. Or the Gewher41. Fully-automatic fire places more stress upon an action than bolt or semi-auto(which is effectively automatic, just slower). These stresses may combine with weak springs, a poorly polished bolt, or even a large chunk of asphalt inside the reciever. And with gas-operation, proper maintaince is a necessity.

Yes, much of WW2 era weaponry is very reliable. Then again, most modern guns are VERY reliable. The faults in many weapons are either from age and neglect(1911A1s from WW2 that have a few bolts loose, weak springs, etc), or the ammunition used. I've rarely read a report from Combat Handguns, SOF weapons tests, Handgunner, or Guns And Ammo that reported any sizeable jams. And most of the jams I've heard about have been feed problems.

In the end, I believe shadowrun handles it just fine. In comparison, there's gurps, where most TL7 firearms have a reliability of "crit.", which means they only fire on a critical failure(a roll of 17 or 18 on 3d6) with the skill check. While TL6 firearms have a "crit." or "16" result.

If you want, I can ask my friends who just got back from Iraq how their weapons worked. I'd say they'd have combat experience, jah?

Actually, WW2 era weapons, on average, were more reliable than the stuff many nations are currently using. No AR15 rifle will ever equal the legendary reliability of M1 Garand, and the M9 just doesn't compete with M1911A1 in terms of reliability (or stopping power, but that's another debate entirely). That's not to say modern guns jam all the time, but it happens, and SR's neglect of this dynamic removes a fair bit of gritty realism.

As for GURPS, I'm not familiar with what TL7 and 6 mean, so an explanation would be helpful.

Also, would be interesting if you could get their comments on the reliability of their weapons, what they were doing with them, and under what conditions, level of care, etc.

Regarding jams in Vietnam and World War II (and Korea, the Gulf War, Iraq, etc) it's important to remember that soldiers on the battlefield basically camp outside for months on end. You aren't just running around in dust, or rolling in muck, you are living in it. That day in, day out abuse adds up. More importantly, many of the people fighting in World War II and Vietnam (and most wars) were relatively inexperienced and poorly trained. Plenty were poorly lead as well. After a 20 mile march through steaming, bug/snake/cong/mud infested jungle you'd want to just collapse into a bunk instead of cleaning your weapon, too. Also, ammunition manufactured in war time was frequently subpar: everyone's working double shifts at a plant that used to make sewing machines or some nonsense and half the skilled workers have been called up and replaced with whoever wasn't good enough to get in the army and do something else. Either way, war puts strains on weapons and men that combat doesn't. I don't think it's that important for Shadowrun, but it's get backstory for your mercenary/ex-military character to harass the local urban gunbunnies with

Clyde, everything you state is correct and that is what made the M-1 Garand such a remarkable weapon. Despite all those things you stated working against the weapon I have heard in feild reliability estimates during WWII of the M-1 Garand as high at 99.9997% That's only three jams per 10,000 rounds. Not sure how much of that is myth and how much is the truth but I having fired several thousand rounds through a few M-1 Garands I have a tendency to believe it.

Now how did we get this far off topic.
mcb

My main character is a paranormal investigator who works with the police. Her licenced, day to day gun is a colt asp- a light revolver. so she carries but it's not a mnoster to worry the police, like "why does this forensic type woman need to carry a massive heavy pistol?"

Herald, sidartha: I suppose that SR does such a good job that when I pick up that ganger's pistol that jammed four times before I shot him in the face because he never once cleaned that I then stand a 1/279936 chance of experiencing one of those same jams with his gun? Face it: SR doesn't do it at all. Critical failure is a function of operator failure and sheer chance, not environmental or gun related issues.