Replacing a NPC with a writer PC...

Anyway, it's nice to see that Horizon's media manipulation ability is not all-powerful and that some writers remember that Aztechnology used to be the top of PR.

I'm still doubtful of the way two failed products can have such an impact on Ares' reputation. Unless each of the "failures" is worse than a Renraku Arcology incident.

Thoughts on the chapters.

The Aztlan navy making their attack on Bogotá (early in the operation)! The ships are en route to the Bogotá submarine base. It's juts a 400 km walk through the Andes. Whoever wrote the Trigger chapter should try consulting maps for reference. Caracas is NOT the same as Bogotá.

Aztlan spent it's entire army twice and wins a war. Because Hualpa cries manly dragon tears the second they start assassinating trees. Why didn't they just start the war like this to begin with.

So Ares decides that, since it's products are reliably sub-standard (which is deducted from that it's pew-pew gadget for weapon-hoarding WASPs sucks), to just mind-control consumers to buy their shit anyway, instead of, you know, making products that work. That will sure work out well. That sounds like much less effort and no ruffled feathers with all other megas.

So the Telestrians take over Tir Tairngire? Well, better than LOLork, I guess.


Thought so as well, but to their credit, Bull has been an established NPC since 2nd Edition.


Agree here too. That's among the better parts of the Aztlan writeup.

The usual update, with special thanks to Ixal: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...t&p=1199313
This time featuring an end to the war where nothing happens, where even a building standing right at the supposed front line takes some damage; and Ares is working to sap and impurify your bodily fluids

Right on! Thought the same.

Thanks for to all who are keeping the compilation up to date! I've not got time to follow the stories live but I'm enjoying reading them together!

At least now we know what the secret anti-dragon weapon looks like: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7...b_enh-lores.jpg

I'z getz paid in Icz Creemz!

Looks like the full release of the Hidden Stories or even the Storm Front release is rather close when the Shadowrun team blog something like this about the Hidden Stories/Stormfront
"You may have seen some of Storm Front already in fragments put up on the shadowruntabletop.com website. More were just released, so solve the puzzle and track them down! Then get ready for the full data dump — coming very, very soon!"

Naval forces have been used as platforms from which to launch operations for centuries. Currently air forces are the easiest to comprehend. I.E. You launch your jets off the carrier. You don't ram the carrier up onto the beach. It's why we have the carrier groups we have now. Not because we think someone's going to try a seaward invasion, but for force deployment around the globe.




Well to be fair they pumped alot of their forces into taking down the dragon. Which many here seem to argue can be done with a light pistol and a bit of luck. They didn't pour ALL of their assets into killing the dragon as they were thought to have, but concidering that fight lasted less than a day, it's not like the forces were on the other side of the planet or on a different one. They dog piled on the wyrm and once he was done, they diverted to secondary targets, in conjunction with pre-planned attack on one city.



Because there was alot more to it than that. During the fight with the dragon the opposing forces started their own, disjointed attacks in Bogota trying to take advantage of what they ((Erroneously)) Thought was all of Aztlan's forces being tied up killing the dragon. Aztlan.... actually used some tactics. (( Strange in an rpg I know!)) They waited untill the dragon was 'defeated' and then moved against the opposing forces who thought that they were catching Aztlan with their units out of position. They hit hard and fast and moved the other units in to back them up. Aztlan was also smart and hit the Mercenary support elements first. cut off their transport capability and then hit the city from both with in and surrounding it.

You'd think the writers actually looked up some military operations. it was pretty smart. (( that's not an insult. It's pointing out they actually did something well here.)) With Amazonia's forces cut off, scattered, their Merc back up out of position and with out transport, the Az forces had the upper hand and had the AM forces on the run. It was only then that they just got fed up and started carpet bombing the forest.

This was significant due to the fact that NOT carpet bombing the forests was mostly held in check to keep the dragon's from coming and eating everyone's face. With the big bad terrorist dragon now dead, it was again an option on the table. The wonton destruction of the rain forest, coupled with the decimation of the Am's merc forces and their own forces being on the run, AND the years of the war already in play, likely all contributed to the cessation of hostilities.



Hyperbolic at very best. Ares is known to have quality products. It was one product that was messed up and it's been stated that it was clearly the result of successful sabotoge of some sort. That Ares clearly wouldn't have put out the rifle if it was messed up that bad.

So "Ares products are reliably sub-standard" isn't true. One product was botched.



Again, hyperbolic. they make products that work. Save for the one that was messed up. It even states pretty clearly that that product wasn't that big a deal. it was the rep hit that was.

As for the mind control thing. Yes, it's shady, but it's nothing other megacorps wouldn't do. Infact you'd think Horizon specializes in it. ANY Mega corp would love to have this technology and they'd each use it in a heartbeat. Ares just ((Seems)) to be the first to be going to employ it.



Oh I'm sure it'll blow up amazingly some how, and the other mega's will gnash their teeth while they do everything they can to get their own mind control programs equal to or better. Just like the big hubub with the Technomancers which were "OMG!!! OHHHH NOOOES!!!11!!!!" but all the mega's knew about them and most had programs for years.

Storm Front is out and the Hidden Stories are in the PDF (JackpointTalk).

So get the pdf when you want to read them for full.

Regarding, Stormfront. Got it, read half of it so far. Uhm wow?!?!? I won't give away things as I know I hate spoilers and crap like such myself. I will say I'm impressed at some of the magnitudes. Defines "Epic" at levels that outright challenge some of our stuff, and after 15+ year story arcs of our own, that's a sincere round of appreciation. Won't finish reading the rest of it now... Need to sleep a bit.

Black Star wiped out, Aufheben dead. Does SR have an anarchist bone in it's body any more?

Got the file, reading it. ShadowJackal's review sums it about up, but I'll go a bit more in detail, I think.

I'm just not sure Anarchism is a relevant plot thread for SR, any more. As much as some people wish otherwise, the Punk movements have mostly died away and Anarchism has lost the rebellious youth appeal it once. Consequently, Anarchism no longer as readily speaks to people in our modern world - it seems anachronistic and out of touch with the spirit of the times.

Even more problematic is the question of plot hooks. What exactly do Sixth World Anarchists bring to the table? What sort of story arcs can you feasibly create with a bunch of guys whose primary motivation is to overthrow the corps? They can't succeed without destroying the world setting, so they're doomed to failure before you even begin. At best they can create pockets of instability for a short while, but you can do that just as easily with other, much more interesting factions.

~Umi

They could attempt to force the corps to make concessions, or crate a small fiefdom for themselves (Kronstadt, Berlin, come to mind). And frankly, anti-corp activism isn't dead, not even in America.

There are plenty of other parties that could make the same demands, but with additional story hooks to go along with it.

Eco-terrorists, for example, demanding the establishment of nature preserves. Infected (who are shaping up to be the new bogey-men of SR5), demanding their own feeding grounds. Religious radicals, racial supremacists, oppressed minorities, sentient critters, AIs, et cetera, all looking to get a small slice of the corporate pie.

I just don't see Anarchism as being a compelling foundation for storytelling in SR anymore. As the heart of a major plot conflict, "Fuck the system!" doesn't have all that much to offer. It's simply so much sound and fury.

~Umi

Why exactly would such demands get even a modicum of popular support (well, the ecos might). AIs, Infected, and most religious radicals have a hard standing in Shadowrun. Same with sentient critters. The pro-Infected movement was stupid, unplausible writing, made mainly to draw in oWoD refugees, without any in-game logic.


That simplicity allows it to appeal to a wider audience. Just like "USA!" is a greater rallying cry than any particular interest. It'S simplicity allows more people to see themselves in it, without being turned off by those creatures wanting to eat them or those eco-rads wanting them to live like in the stone age.

You're suggesting that Anarchists are going to get popular support?

Okay, let's say that - somehow - popular sentiment turns in favor of the Anarchists. What do the corps do? They villify them! Hire some shadowrunner teams to wear black leather and go pink-mohawk on the populace, and frame the local Anarchists for it. What are they going to do? Deny it?

Pfft, yeah. People will believe the Anarchists when they say they didn't shoot up a local shopping mall and tag the walls with Anarchist slogans and symbols. They'll listen when they're being robbed and murdered in broad daylight, and they'll listen afterwards while the corps are making a convincing show of "cracking down" and restoring order, rounding up a bunch of fake "ringleaders" and having them summarily put down in the name of the rule of law.

It just doesn't sell. People may hate the corps, but they the still want the structured lives the corps provide. When the alternative is chaos, it becomes very hard for the populace to say no to the corps. I mean, hell, if they really wanted to make a show of it, the corps could pick a city or district to make an example of, shutting off the power and water, blocking off the streets and barricading them in, suspending police and fire services, sending in secret agent provocateurs and letting "Anarchy" reign. After a week, the huddled masses would be clamboring for the corps to save them.

~Umi

Yep, that sounds pretty much like how its always been. Helps vilifies the corps in the shadows while keeping them looking like the good guys to the public. I'm not seeing a problem. Its not like anarchists are the highest priority threat, just one of many smaller threats. The biggest threat to the corps are other corps.

Anarchists can never really win, but like wise, you can never defeat them. I'm not seeing a problem.

Honestly, I think it's cultural ignorance. Just because Americans religiously believe that the answer to every problems is "free markets", that doesn't mean everyone does, so even if this might not be plausible in America, it might well be elsewhere. Of course, if you want to restrict Shadowrun to only America, it might indeed not be the best plot device.

Then again, what, if not an anarchist haven, is Jackpoint, ShadowSea, the whole Shadownet?

Free and unrestricted communications for starters, aka Jackpoint...


Protagonists in a dystopia are bound to fail? Oh noes

Jackpoint is Anarchist? Source please?

Also, who said anything about Protagonists? The players are the protagonists, not some hypothetical faction of Sixth World Anarchists. That's besides the point, however. The point is that the potential for storytelling seems very weak to me. Anarchists don't seem to offer any obvious benefits to the SR world that aren't already provided by other, more interesting factions.

~Umi

Crypto-Anarchist to be precise, employing technical means to render governmental authority moot.

Ah. I assumed you meant they were Anarchist in terms of political and philosophical views, not that they merely circumvented abusive legislature.

Of course, even then I'd hesitate on calling them Crypto-"Anarchist". I'd classify their behavior as civil disobedience or the like. They're still part of the system, still operate within and benefit from the governmental structure, and aren't actively trying to abolish authority in all forms - they're just breaking or circumventing specific laws they disagree with.

But let's not derail this thread with too much political theory discourse, eh? Suffice it to say, yes, it seems most of the Anarchist factions in SR are disappearing. Some may view this negatively. I do not. *shrug*

~Umi

By that definition every criminal would also be an anarchist.

Most criminals don't give a damn about the government one way or another.


You may view the Infected or other even more pink mohawk factions as more interesting. I do not. Let's leave it at that.

How exactly does a criminal create a persistent zone exempt from state authority?



Right, I forgot that Jackpoint is known for upholding laws and morals, like my god-given right to arrange wetwork over the Matrix.



How exactly do SIN-less people in a world where governments have simply abandoned a large part of their former roles live within the structure?

Ask the Yakuza, the Triads, the Vory, the Mafia, et cetera... (None of whom are Anarchist, by the by. *wink*)

Anyway, Ixal's point (I think) is that using technology and ingenuity to bypass or render authority moot is exactly what criminals do.

~Umi

That is replacing one government with another. Also, Ixal claimed the idea of Crypto-Anarchism would promote "every criminal" to that status

I wouldn't limit is to technology, but yes.
Just because someone creates a "persistent zone exempt from state authority?" doesn't mean that he is an anarchist by either name or intention. Pretty much every criminal organization sets up such zones either in the real world (fences, drug distributors, smugglers) or online (child pornography). And they do it to escape prosecution while engaging in criminal activities and not because of ideology.

Oh dear, now I have to lecture people on the difference between Anarchism and lawlessness...

The gist of Crypto-Anarchism is to create digital "free space" where communication cannot be traced, censored, or otherwise controlled. The decker/hacker scene in Shadowrun pretty much runs on that premise, whereas RL criminal organizations would certainly not design their distribution channels to be beyond control for everybody. If they unintentionally did, well, it would probably be seen as an unintentional good deed...

We have many examples were information was controlled or censored on JackPoint ranging from restricted access rights over comment purges to the banhammer. It is certainly not "Free Space" but instead a network for criminals to help them with their work.

A digital "free space" where communication cannot be traced, censored, or otherwise controlled?

Jackpoint is none of those things. Free space? It's invite-only. Cannot be traced? Only from the outside. Not censored? Moderators delete content. Not controlled? Bullshit it isn't. It's FastJack's personal playground, and it operates at his discretion - or at least it did until Ares got their nanites in his head and he decided to turn it over to Bull while he still could.

At the end of the day, it's a criminal information "Commune" at best, and a lenient Despotism at worst.

~Umi

Jackpoint is not the free space, it is part of it. The answer to "what do Anarchists bring to the table" was "Free and unrestricted communications", and that includes the freedom of excluding people from your lawn (you just cannot trace them or stop them from staking their own claim).

And what part of the free space is JackPoint?
Restricted access, moderation, bans. The only thing remotely anarchic is that they talk about committing crimes. But they do not do that because of believe or conviction except for some selected members, but because they want to earn money through crimes.

I could understand arguments for the Denver Data Haven being Anarchist (if it weren't for Ghostwalker), but not JackPoint.

You can't have a governmental system be part of an anarchy. That's not how anarchy works.

~Umi

What with syndicates and all that? Anarchism is not lawless, "everyone does pleases him". It's another way of organizing society, up to and including establishing work that needs to be done.

See my edit. Jackpoint is the part of the free space where somebody used the freedom to establish his own house with his own rules...

double post. Sorry

And we are back to every criminal being an anarchist.
Is someone setting up a crack house with its own house rules an anarchist?
Avoiding and ignoring the law does not make someone an anarchist. For being a true anarchist the intention matters. And I simply don't believe that the majority of JackPointers, including FastJack, created and participate in it because of an anarchist agenda, but to further their criminal goals.

The question at hand was not about the ideology of Jackpoint, but what Anarchists add to the setting. So to stick with your example, if the central aspect of this game was a crack house in an anarchist zone, what would that ideology add to the game?

There's still Neo-@s in Shadowrun, it's just that they're not too organized.

I wonder why?

Because they wanna be non conformists, just like all their friends?!

I guess there are several smaller anarchist groups still left in the AGS. So if you want to bring back Anarchists into your game, source material for it exists.

Arguing that anarchist = criminal is so simple and missing the point. "Criminal" is legal terminology that can be applied to an individual whether they are motivated by anarchist principals or not. They overlap, and any dichotomy or definitional boundary you try and impose will not stick. It's like two people arguing whether "Jewish" is a race or a religion. It can be both, or either.

If you can't think of anything for Anarchists to do in the sixth world other than yell "fuck the system!" under a black flag, then they are not for your game. The Anarchist Black Crescent is a canon anarchist medical service, they are docwagon for the SINless. The Anarchist Black Cross offer some of the best fake SINs and permits in the business, and offer assistance to political refugees and anyone else who doesn't care about a border, and if I recall correctly, also offer education in a wide range of disciplines through shadowy online universities, unless I've mixed them with the People's University in California. Black Star was (it seems) the paramilitary arm of Shadowrun's anarchist idealists, fighting for individual autonomy.

That is the key difference and why you can't equate them with the Yakuza, or a political party, or the criminal class. They are in it for an individual's right to make choices. They are not democratic because they don't expect everyone to make the same decisions. They don't wait around for the government or the corps or anyone else to get things done, they organize and do it themselves. I'd say a lot of things that Jackpoint and Shadowland members have done over the years fall into that ideal, even if they weren't championing anarchy. They wanted to disseminate information about Winternight while the corps were keeping it under wraps, and they've followed that same plan during many of the Sixth World's events. Captain Chaos, and Fastjack after him have always put their information out so that the readers can be better informed and make their own decisions.

The thing that would make those groups Anarchist, though, would be working to obliterate any and all government. If they're true Anarchists, their motivation for helping the SINless would presumably be solely based on helping undermine any and all governmental systems. They don't necessarily have to give a damn about the SINless individuals they help, they just have to see them as a means of attaining their political ends.

If they're simply out to replace the current regime with a different regime of their choosing, they're not Anarchists, but Revolutionaries or Reformists. Wanting to undermine or work against the current government in place doesn't make you a true Anarchist. You have to be against all governance.

~Umi

True Anarchy doesn't work. The important stuff doesn't get done.

Often those that call for Anarchy, just mean "I don't wanna do what Im told". Faced with true full Anarchy.. well... it's very different.

Mad Max series comes to mind, except there are leaders in that.

Mad Max was fun, but it's not true anarchy. It's just post apoc dictatorships. They were just pretty brutal ones.

Thus my statement about there actually being leaders.