What happens when they say no?
I'd want to pull out from the corrupt a wish foundation pretty quickly.
There's many, many traits that's been attributed to the devil... Including weird things like shaking hand on the left, inexplicably turning writing into blood, casting no shadow or a shadow opposite to the sun or a shadow in his true form or a shadow that acts on its own accord, Same goes for reflections in a mirror.
Subtle elements being wrong is often very unnerving

I wonder about that too. Because only one of my chracters would willingly work for the Johnson again after the first run. Not on a matter of ethics, but because he just made them assassinate a Vor capo, without informing them of his plan.

Simple. He'd start appearing suddenly in unlikely places, with stacks of green paper in one hand and blackmail in the other.

Go to meet a different Johnson at a club, only to find DocWagon out front when you arrive, trying to pry a screaming driver out of his crumpled, flaming vehicle in a three car pile-up. Three guesses as to who the unlucky burn victim is. And standing on the corner is Mr. Bell, smoking a cigarette, smirking. "Strange seeing you here! Hot night on the town? Here to blow off some steam? Pity about that car wreck over there, though, total downer, I couldn't possibly enjoy the clubs after seeing something like that - terrible sights have a way of burning themselves into your memory. Know what I mean?" Naturally he'd never take his eyes off the wreck, quietly enjoying every second of it. "Do you think they'll get him out in time? Or do you think maybe the fuel tank will..." at which point, naturally, it does, taking out a paramedic or two with it.

Every new meeting he'd be as charming and sly as if it was the first time he'd met you, offering simple jobs and good money. If the Runners say no, he plies them harder, acts like their best pal in the whole world. If they tell him to fuck off, he gets politely sinister. If they threaten force, he'll back off and slip away undetered, coming back later on, cornering them in pairs or alone, finding them in back alleys and noodle-shops, and generally just slipping into and out of their daily lives like a ghost. If he has to, he'll start leaving notes on their apartment doors, or under their pillows in their secret boltholes. If torching one of the player's vehicles will get them to do what he wants, he's happy to. And when the runners try to do legwork, all they get are conflicting dead ends.

Ultimately, though, he's a coward. He's all smoke and mirrors, fear and manipulation. He wins when his playthings submit to him, but if they openly defy him, he's not nearly so powerful. Willpower is the key. He may be able to suddenly step out of almost any shadow, or even be able to dodge bullets from time to time, but if backed into a corner and forced to fight head on, he's gonna be in a very bad way.

~Umi

As I like your idea, your presentation of Mr. J. as Mary Sue par excellence would turn me off as a player.

You appear to not actually know what "Mary Sue" means....

I'd almost feel like you were trying to be insulting somehow if your comment wasn't so head-scratchingly baffling.

~Umi

The more reason to kill him... Bleed Mary Sue, bleed!

Seemingly all-powerful Johnson who needs runners to buy him some doughnuts? I'd tell the GM to go back to junior high.

A Mary Sue Is an authors wet dream project, it's a powerful character without hardships or setbacks
Oh... TVtropes link, exercise caution

You're all missing the point, entirely.

Do none of you have any conception of the trope of dealing with the devil? Because that's exactly his purpose and nature.

He's not an all-powerful being pulled out of my ass so he can hire the runners just because they're the main characters, and I'm pretty fucking insulted that people would think I'd come up with this guy just to power-trip while godmodding an over the top character just for shits and giggles.

No, there is a thematic point and purpose to his powers, as well as certain limitations. He's not just some schmuck that has superpowers for no reason. He's a paranormal being that toys with people for his own entertainment. He's the embodiment of the devil's bargain. He's not corportate, he's not private, he's not even human. He's just out to tempt people, and to twist people, and to corrupt people. Call him a variety of Twisted Spirit. Call him a Lesser Horror. Who cares.

His purpose is to engage the team of runners in a new and different sort of way - to be an enemy that surprises them, that doesn't play by the "rules", that isn't defeated in the usual ways and with the usual tools. He's supposed to provide a different sort of challange, a different sort of experience, wherein the runners have to deviate from all their comfortable and familiar problem solving strategies. His story arc would be more like a chapter out of a Cthulhu story than your typical "get paid to steal stuff and shoot people" run. The runners aren't fighting something tangible like a corporation or a dragon, they're fighting the embodiment of their own human weaknesses, the temptations of greed and cruelty, and the cowardice of succumbing to fear and the will of others. In short, he's a psychological threat, not a physical one.

Like I said, he's not "The Devil" - he's just "a" devil. He has a slew of powers usually associated with traditional depictions of demons and the like. The point of including him is to give the runners a side-arc in the larger story where themes of the paranormal and humanity's struggles with its own capacity for good and evil get to be played out in a creepy, paranoia-inducing way. He's there to tempt, to corrupt, to twist, to pervert, to frighten, to manipulate, and yes, even to ultimately be defeated. But even more importantly he's there to give my players an experience I honestly think they will find atmospheric, interesting, unnerving, and fun. I'm sorry that sounds so terrible to some of you. I guess our table is not Black Trenchcoat enough for you guys.

~Umi

Didn't say I agreed with the assessment, merely explained it

Ah, pardon then. You're excused from my righteous indignant literary wrath.

~Umi

I got the dealing with the devil-angle, but the presentation of the devil aka Mr. J. in your example is nothing I would enjoy as a player.

To me that's not the devil. He's supposed to be smart, that's just an asshole begging to be shot (, exploded, stun-bolted, FABed, hit with a kitchen sink, ...) on sight until he stops coming back.

I fully agree with Grinder. I'd not enjoy this as a player either.

Just because no one agreed with the "brilliance" of your presentation, is no excuse for you to essentially call them stupid, or ignorant. I read it entirely as they read and fully understood exactly what you were attempting and found it lacking. In their eyes it fell short. It falls short in my eyes entirely because of post #203, which is practically a definition of Mary Sue on its own.

WHile I understand what you are doing, why would the Mr. J (Devil) stick around once he was turned down? After all , there are Billions of other people in the world to tempt. Why waste time once they were on to him?

This is not a mary sue, this is a BBEG, which has its own pitfalls.

But your missing out on his purpose. His purpose is to make an interesting challenge to the players and to make them feel like they may not be in complete control of the situation. Just like most of the "bosses" of Michael Weston in Burn Notice. He knows they are slimy guys and wants to turn on them but can't. And they are always so "nice" in person.

The reason you are all perceiving him as a mary sue is because you know his entire story, and you know that he will have a contingency for every situation. The players will not know that, and to them at first he'll just be another johnson with some interesting features. As they get sucked further into the story they'll start to see that he's not just another johnson, but by then it will be more difficult for them to get rid of the guy.

The problem with that sort of character is when you get the one player that after the first opportunity to learn that this guy isn't a guy to be dealing with, fills his brainpan with bullets, without thinking about the consequences of that action. Or you think you have him with the perfect escape plan, and then a player does something you don't expect and they catch him and kill him. Those are the times to prepare the hand of god.

What do you reckon the DV of a kitchen sink is?

Do you mean one of them newfangled tiny plastic ones or an honest to $Deity cast-iron kitchen sink you could take a bath in?

Your run off the mill stainless steel type

Hmm, two-handed blunt weapon, weighing more than a staff, but shorter; I'd probably wing it as:
Reach: 1
DV: (STR/2 + 3)
AP: You just got hit with a frigging kitchen sink! What's wrong with you?!
Seriously incurring a penalty for not being intended to be used as a weapon, though.

Damn, now I need to stat me a Troll dual-wielding those babies.

So... Most of my original characters. Gotcha.

Couldn't have put it better myself. The difference is that instead of being secret government agents or psychopathic serial bombers, this guy is a magical threat.

~Umi

I can't think fo any OC of yours who didn't suffer a life made of setbacks, actually.


And that's the crucial difference. Because that takes away any need for you to keep him plausible; it's magic after all. Michael Westin's opponents may seem insurmountable to him, but that's because of reasons, not because they magically appear out of the closet in his bedroom and inform him they've just killed their lover and will kill their mistress too if they don't go on your crap adventures, ebcause your dude just magically knows things because magic. That may not be how you'd run this, btu that's how it came across in #203.

There's a world of difference between this and Michael Westin's agency enemies.

Okay, maybe I need to explain the mechanics of the magic then. I'd have him use only existing spells. Ignite, Influence, etc. He's just got a rather high initiation and magic score, so he can cast these spells at a very powerful level, and he can mask them with his metamagics. More believable now?

Furthermore, he'd have a gaes, or code of conduct. He'd have to abide by all the classic restrictions imposed on his brand of evil. He'd be allergic to crosses, to silver, et cetera. He couldn't enter holy ground. He couldn't attack someone directly, or enter a home uninvited (so he could leave a note on a door, but would have to be "invited" into a home to put one under a pillow (of course, he could always Influence or Compel a maintenance guy or someone to let him in there). He couldn't break a contract, or a promise once made. And while his magic is powerful, he does still have to cast it and it can still be resisted, and it does require line of sight and all that jazz. He'd still have to resist drain, for example.

I don't see why handwaving any of this would change anything, though. Why can he do X? Because he's a paranormal being who can do Y magically. Why can Burn Notice enemy do X? Because they're a government operative who conveniently has Y leverage.

~Umi

You can handwave it, except you can then expect the immersion of the players to be blown. You can expect in my experience at least one player to call you on the carpet, and when you handwave you have nothing to stand on other than "I felt like messing with you, and I was too lazy to figure out an interesting way to do it." That is what post #203 and your last post sound like. "I am too lazy to come up with a real credible magical threat, so I will just handwave it and make it know shit a Great Dragon might know, but probably would not because the runners are too inconsequential to garner the attention...of such a potent magic user." It just does not work on any level other than laziness or just looking to mess with your players for the sake of messing with them.

You ask why Burn Notice gets away with? The answer is pretty obvious if you think about it. Burn Notice is not a Mirrorshades, or a Pink Mohawk, it is a mix of the two with a hard dose of satire, self parody, breaking the 4th wall, and pure comedy. Burn Notice is not meant to be taken as a serious depiction of spies, it is simply meant to be entertaining. While I will forgive Burn Notice for making me laugh, I sure would not forgive any GM if they ran the Guy you describe in post #203. It would make me laugh in a sad way, because if I wanted a game of comedy I would have been playing Toon.

Isn't that more characteristic of vampires?

Then please explain how he accomplishes anything described in posts #200 and #203?

Go to meet a different Johnson at a club, only to find DocWagon out front when you arrive, trying to pry a screaming driver out of his crumpled, flaming vehicle in a three car pile-up. Three guesses as to who the unlucky burn victim is. - How does he know?

If they threaten force, he'll back off and slip away undetered, coming back later on, cornering them in pairs or alone, finding them in back alleys and noodle-shops, and generally just slipping into and out of their daily lives like a ghost. If he has to, he'll start leaving notes on their apartment doors, or under their pillows in their secret boltholes. - Again, how does he know? How does he get there? Why does he have access to any secret the PCs have surely treid to keep secret?

Your employer seems to know things no one else does, or he can predict events with startling accuracy. - How?

Naturally he has to slip away at the final moment, beaten and weakened but still out there, a knife in the shadows, waiting for the right time to strike once more... - So he IS invincible by power of GM fiat after all?

And while his magic is powerful, he does still have to cast it and it can still be resisted, and it does require line of sight and all that jazz. He'd still have to resist drain, for example. - Except for when he doesn't, because he has access to all metagaming knowledge the GM has? See above. It's not me wondering whether he has actual stats in combat, it's whether he acts as a plausible agent inside the gaming world or as a metagaming 'cheat' agent the GM uses against the players because it's what's needed to railroad the players into the story of his choice?

I don't see why handwaving any of this would change anything, though. Why can he do X? Because he's a paranormal being who can do Y magically. - Because, while a government agency is a thing that, theoretically, you can confront and deal with (as Michael Westin, in the end, does). Magic, especially GM fiat type magic like this, is intangible and cannot be confronted, leaving the players feel walked over by an invincible NPC who always is a step ahead of them because the GM is metagaming to 'beat' them at Shadowrun. That is nothing I, as a player, would find very enjoyable.

I have not updated recently because our game has been put on hiatus for the time being.

We have had that sit down and talk with our GM, and he apologized for going a bit too far. However he isn't going to change the story plot or direction until we are done with this arc, and he says its for good reason (plus the table has agreed to roll with it after all) because he has something really massive planned.

He does like Bishop's suggestion on the composure tests all the way back at post #80, so he's likely going to use that from here on out.

Ehhh..... I don't know. I've read through it and all the sexual stuff put on the characters all at once including 'impregnating' the only female character, turning one into a rape beast and making him attack women etc... doesn't seem like "A great awesome deep storyline' to me. Seems kinda like a hormonal 14 year old that's discovered girls and has no idea how to approach them so is manipulating the players in the game to get his jollies. Now.. I'm not saying the GM is sitting there going "Muahahah. I can't get laid so I'll work out my sexual frustrations through the game!!" He very much might not be aware of it. But the "oh.. You fall asleep and wake up pregnant or a rapist. No saving throw!" type thing would sour me instantly. Trying to explain it away after the fact (( If he's a new GM he wasn't playing 20 steps ahead. )) doesn't really change it.

If he's been pulled aside and told that the players are weirded out and uncomfortable and comes back with "However he isn't going to change the story plot or direction untill we're done with this arc" Then he doesn't care. He's getting his jollies and the group can help him do so till he's done. The group seems to be invested at least a few weeks sessions now. So they're in a crappy place. "Kick the Sex crazed GM, and start new, wasting these weeks and the char's we made, or ... "*Groan* Well this is frakin' stupid but we're a couple weeks in, hope it is done soon and we can put this in the rear view and get to something that's not the GM living vicariously through my poor character, I don't want to waste the weeks we've already put into this crap, if it's almost done."

I'd thank the guy for trying and let someone else in the group be GM for a while. If he wanted to play a character in the group. cool deal, but no. I wouldn't let a GM get his rocks off with my char, turn him into a rapist or the like and be told "Ok I hear you're upset and don't like this and the group is weirded out but I'm gonna keep doing what I'm doing" If I had to scrap the character and reroll it'd be annoying, or the group could 'Rewind' to pre 'sexual fantasy sleep thing', or something.

This doesn't mean my char's have to be 100% awesome all the time, my char's have been slammed with horrible things they have to deal with, overcome or cirumvent but I've read through 10 pages of this stuff with multiple posts from DamHawke, and yeah.. this is not the sort of thing me or my group would be down for. This started off as a pretty juvenile screw job that the guy's trying to roll out as a big plan he's had from the start. Depending on peoples groups they might like that sort of thing, but the posts here have indicated they don't really.

Agreed. It does seem to me as well like he's trying to pull the old "But...but this will be SO COOL later! So, come on, let me keep screwing your characters over."

Aaaand here comes the pitchforks again, you've made your opinion clear. No need to hammer it in.

Yeah, I'm done. I'm clearly not explaining it to my critics very well, and they're clearly biased to dislike it because it doesn't match how they run things at their tables, and they've already made up their minds about what they think it is I'm doing and why, and it's just not worth the headache.

My players will love it. I'll enjoy GMing it. What else matters, I guess? Some of the forums can just dismiss it as shit, it really shouldn't matter to me, so I'm gonna force myself not to let it bug me. *shrug*

~Umi

Most criticism got something worthwhile you can take from it, while you might disagree with it... It's worth to sit down and ponder 'why' someone would perceive it that way.
It helps to reread comments that seem confrontational in a calm and friendly voice, or with the narration of Christopher Walken.
(Why? Have you ever heard him read three little pigs? that's why)

Also I was prodding at Bigguns crusade against the OPs GM

There are simply lines that shouldn't be crossed, and he has crossed them. Even if the man isn't excised from the group entirely, he should be removed from the GM's seat at the very least.

Woo, passive and active agression in one post! Also, you should learn to differ between criticism of your work, and personal attacks. It'll help you in all walks of life, I promise.


Well, if you can live with that, it's a workable compromise I guess. It would depend on what he means by 'driection' - if it is "characters are forced by mysterious forces to do horrible things", that'd be different from "lol rape lol".

What I'm sort of interested in, though, is why he slammed your character - the Face was yours, right? - like he did. If he ever told, that is.

I maintain that new GMs make mistakes, sometimes really stupid mistakes...
But you cannot grow unless you make those mistakes and unless someone else wants to handle the creative burden they must need give him some room to go through the motions and grow.

Some of my players still have huge flaws as GMs. For example, one can't stand the players "winning" to the point that he completely banned oil (we kinda beat a pirate ship with oil flasks) another have no concept on how to properly reward players, making it so that we often lose money simply progressing.
Both of them are still struggling with breaking loose from railroading.
I give them a helping hand, but they still need room to learn these things on their own.

I could just take their GM hats and run the show on my own, but I neither have the time nor the desire to do so, that's how working relationships function... With compromise.

I'm a bit curious as to why he would push on after the criticism though.

I'm confused, are you the GM in question that impregnated a character, and turned another into a spree rapist with no warning and apparently no savings throws Just 'You see elf women and try and rape one!!" type thing?

Or are you sorta being snarky and "Posting as if you're the guy" with his apparent reply?

He is refering to a side track of the conversation that has no relation with DamHawke's group whatsoever.

Kay. Thanks hermit

I think Umidori's idea could potentially be cool, but it's one of those things that it is hard to implement at a gaming table without players taking it the wrong way, or approaching it in a way that messes up the GM's plans, or getting frustrated rather than engaged in the storyline. If Umidori really knows his players, then this might have a better chance of working than it looks like it would in its description.

Perhaps I should have been more elaborate. The story and plot will not change, true. The things he did to our characters, no change either. BUT he has given our characters a solution till we figure out what's happened to us in the big picture, and that was removing about 95% of our compulsive behaviours through administered drugs. Granted its only a temporary solution, its still better than having absolutely no control.

We did get saving throws that have to be rolled at least once every game day. Just not very good ones. Sammy and Face do Will saves, Rigger and Medic do Body saves. Sniper's essentially cured at this point.

Still quite ridiculous. It's even worse that he's obviously intentionally trying to target the weakest defenses of the different team members. This further pushes my resolve to see your group eject him at least from the GM seat.

@Glyph

Perhaps an aspect of the problem is that I made it all sound too set in stone? Like I have a set of proverbial rails that I'm itching to make the players ride?

The actual reality is almost the opposite - I improvise nearly everything at my tables, other than the overarching storyline I'm hoping to follow. I plan out a loose structure, an outline really, of key persons and events, and eveyrthing in between tends to get filled in haphazardly. And because of this, I often put a lot of effort into thinking about a concept when I write up a story arc - into thinking about the kind of experience I want the players to have to cope with, and then only really bringing it all together when we sit down to play.

And there's the disconnect, I think. I pitched the concept as mere concept, without any regard for actual implementation, which kind of makes it sound like I'm fucking around with my players, trying to ruin their fun, and just want to lord over them with my Super Ultra Uber Villian Dude™. I assure you, this is not the case. And I also assure you, if the players surprise me (as they often do!) and deviate substantially from my mission structure, I'm ready and willing to throw away my own story outline and let them write a new one on the fly. I've done it before. And I find that having a very strong concept in my head allows me to improvise much more smoothly.

~Umi

Wow. Alright, I used to post on DS a looooong time ago, and just got back into Shadowrun, and signed back up for the forum specifically to respond to this post. Forgive me if I'm wrong on any (factual) points regarding the discussion, as I read most of the thread like a week ago.

Let me say first of all that I'm glad to see everyone on here still argues like they're at a drunken, schizophrenic family reunion.

Second, here's my take on the OP's campaign--

I really wish I was in that game. While there have been some obvious missteps (if you're gonna make a guy roll to resist rape-urge, you should probably, as GM, not force him into contact with his rape-trigger, and maybe roll for it--there are, after all, pretty clear demographic statistics for the SR universe), overall I think what he's doing is fairly cool.

First of all, there's plenty of GMs on this board whose response to the whole team getting KOed would be to have them make new characters. That sucks. Using it as a plot hook is awesome. If the whole thing pans out to be lame, well, then you can start cursing him for it.

The thing is, it's thematically fantastic.

Yes, "themes" are good for RPGs. Some might say that a good story with cool themes are the entire point. Maybe it's just that during my long break from SR I got really into White Wolf (Revised edition), mainly Mage and VtM. In Vampire ("personal horror" vampire, not "superhero undead fight alien terrors" Vampire), this kind of stuff is...well, extremely mild. Stuff tends to get really unsettling, but it's good, because it's well-written. I had forgotten that there were so many people playing SR who preferred that sort of tabletop-videogame, thoughtless-series-of-missions style of gaming.

Here's WHY it's thematically cool--

Guy who has replaced significant portions of his (meta)human body with electricity and machines, in order to interact more fully with other machines, starts shocking himself. With electricity. That one's simplistic, but it's just the start.

Woman whose job is coldly taking people's lives from an extreme distance wakes up thinking she suddenly has a life to support and care for INSIDE OF HER. That's fantastic.

The face seems to be everyone's main problem. Or, at least the people who are ironically name-calling someone a 14-year-old. So, a guy whose entire lifestyle revolves around manipulating other people, who we can assume is socially adept, we can also assume probably gets laid a lot. And given his rather amoral lifestyle, we can also assume he doesn't expend much time or energy caring for his partners. Suddenly has this entire element of his personality jacked up to the extreme. Even if the character is actually completely asexual, his job is still manipulating others to get what he wants and then taking it by force if that doesn't work.

Same thing with the murder-machine who now MUST be a murder-machine.

The fact that no one in this thread seems to have caught on to this incredibly obvious theme amazes me. It's rare that morality is even involved in most SR games, and forcing the PCs to consider it by giving their inner demons a dose of K-10 is pretty cool.

As for the overtly sexual nature of all of these compulsions, it takes about fifteen minutes of community college psych to understand that most psychological issues are rooted, at least partially, in sexuality. If you're afraid of that, that's cool, enjoy playing your tabletop game in your magical land where nobody has any perversions or engages in sexual activity of any kind. I think adults should be allowed to tell adult stories with adult themes. If you're not into that, fine, but don't judge anyone else for doing so.

As for asking the players' permission to go this route beforehand, I'm going to go ahead and assume that this GM, like, has met his players once or twice before, and would therefore probably have a good grasp of what might be triggers for them.

All that said, this "big thing" he's going for better involve a.) a way to free your PCs from their psychiatric bondage, b.) hefty rewards for what they've gone through, and c.) a tale of redemption for the characters that went off the deep end, which is actually the player's responsibility, and judging from what I've read, seems to be the entire goal of this interesting adventure.

Is it Shakespeare? No. But it's lots better than "Go to meet. Do legwork. Execute run without alerting security and retrieve paydata/target/whatever without being noticed or injured. Get paid. Use Karma reward to get to level 80 so we can start doing the epic-level raids. Repeat."

And really, how can you keep a straight face condemning a story about rape in a game where an entire nation runs on blood sacrifices, a game that printed a sourcebook (one of its best) featuring a young child's diary of his neighbors and family being picked off by an AI that ripped out their eyeballs, raped their brains, and turned them into zombified servants (after it made them spend weeks and weeks in VR torture chambers that would make the producers of Saw squirm)? Read about the Barrens and the Z-Zones and ask yourself how often people get raped there. It's called "dystopia" for a reason.

I've got my asbestos underwear (or flame-retarded FFBA, whatever), so let loose.

***

As for the whole Umidori's game tangent, well, first off--

An essential element of the "Mary Sue" is that the character in question is a stand-in for the author (the best recent examples being 50 Shades of Grey and the horrifyingly awful tween Mormon twinkleporn that spawned it). In the case of GMs, this usually ends up being a GMPC. In the case of RPGs in general, this is usually half of the characters that ever get drawn up. Personally, the first character I make in any system is almost always a "what would I be like if I was in this world" character, just to get my sense of the game world down. No matter.

If that character WAS a Mary Sue, I don't think that Umi would have already planned out how his PCs are going to eventually kill it.

At any rate, http://www.springhole.net/writing/marysue.htm. Have a blast with it.



I like this guy.



Considering the fact that that "criticism" was people projecting what THEY want out of a game onto HIS game using literary terms they don't properly understand, I'm gonna have to go ahead and say, uh, no, you're wrong.

Furthermore, for whoever was complaining of him "handwaving" his Johnson (heh), there are incredibly simple explanations for how a powerful magician or magical creature could do these things.

For example, showing up to their meet with the other Johnson and murdering him by starting his car on fire? That would require a level two initiate with Divining, Masking, and a fire spell. At most.

Yeah, that's super overpowered. I bet your group never ran any of the Harlequin mods, huh?

I also want to be in Umidori's game, for the record. Even moreso than the other, because in this case I know for a fact he's a good storyteller, rather than inferring it from evidence that a high-schooler could use to suss out the plot of a novel.

Dude, did you not see the most important line for what happened with the sniper? Just in case, here it is again.



That is complete and total bullcrap. If he's that against playing gender opposite that of the player than he either needs to get over it or not GM. Period.

Annnnnd the GM in question shows up to get an account and post. lol

All4BigGuns, I actually agree with you through-and-through on that. Thing is, this is a gaming board, not a gender politics board. That he said that offends me personally and definitely indicates a problem, unfortunately, it's a problem that the majority of men seem to have. But I'm really not interested in a gender-politics debate; I'm just posting to say...well, what I said; none of which you responded to.



Were that the case, it would've been hilarious. Alas, 'tis not.

To be more specific, the reason I have a problem with the whole "well I wouldn't have done it if you were REALLY a girl" thing isn't that the GM is against...what, playing the opposite gender? I don't even see how that can be an issue. It's that it reeks of male privilege and gender bias.

Edit: Which, again, is not exactly unheard of in the official game of 40-year-old-men playing 16-year-old lesbian catgirl ninjas.

*Shrugs* I've no way to prove it. From your page long reply, adding in alot as if you knew exactly what the GM was going for, as it was your first post ever, and you speak so difinativly and very much defensively of it, out of the blue, as your first post ever, and how you think it's just awesome to impregnate people, make them rapists and serial killers with out their consent, as if it was the height of storytelling, I think it 'tis.

It looks as if the player mentioned it to his GM that he'd put the stuff up on the board and it was being ill received. (( I don't think I or anyone else 'flamed' it. Not liking something and saying they wouldn't sit for it isn't the same thing as FLAMING. I for example don't like Coke. Me saying I don't like coke and wouldn't drink it if it was offered, isn't me flaming coke.)) The GM hearing that his story wasn't being well received, came on, read the thread, got an account and posted a pages long reply defending himself

No worries though. If you are, that's cool. (( Like I said, not liking something doesn't mean you're being flamed.)) If not. That's cool too. Just the first post in the pond and it's that one in that way, LOOKS like you are he.

Either way, if you are the GM, or just a guy that just so happens to make that his first post ever on the board, WELCOME! The more the merrier!!