First off, sorry for the quote chopping. I don't like it, but in this case it is necessary to better illustrate what I'm answering to.
QUOTE (Umidori @ Feb 26 2013, 12:54 AM)
So what about Shotgun-Only Ammunition? Flare and Shock-Lock Rounds? They're clearly in a category of their own, they're explicitly "Shotgun-Only".
I've mentioned those in an earlier post. I do believe that this is exotic ammunition, but seeing as shotguns can _also_ fire all other kinds of ammunition, that they can still be modded for FA.
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And so what if the price and availability are the same? They're still different rounds - the ammunition rules explicitly state this fact. You cannot buy 100 rounds of caseless light pistol ammo and then use it in a shotgun, or even in a light pistol that requires cased rounds.
My point is that those 100 rounds of caseless light pistol ammo cost _exactly_ the same as 100 rounds of shotgun ammo. Or heavy machine gun ammo. And so on.
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The only reason costs and availability of the rounds for smallarms are the same is because it cuts down on bookkeeping. There are technically dozens of varieties of different ammunition available with all those options, but they all share the same price and available because that's just easier to keep track of. And the only reason Assault Cannons have their own separate listing is because you can't have special varieties like an APDS or EX-Explosive round for an assault cannon.
I agree on the bookkeeping. But that also makes the generic ammunition the standardized type of ammunition.
To answer directly to your bolded 'only reason': I think, that this is an assumption on your part. It is an interpretation, nothing more and nothing less. I interpret the fact that they don't have special varieties as the ammunition being exotic, although at this point I'm not sure how many times I should reiterate that.
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Yes, assault cannons lack the extra options of other ammunition types. Yes, assault cannon rounds have a separate cost and availability. But that's completely unrelated to how assault cannon rounds operate as ammunition, how they fit into clips, how they are chambered in the barrel, and how feasible it is to modify an assault cannon for full auto fire.
See? I don't believe that this is 'completely unrelated'. I think it's an indication of what is and what is not considered to be exotic.
If something is NOT of the generic type, it is, by definition, more exotic than said generic type.
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Again, what does it matter if they have the same gear listing entry? You're stating that the format of the information, chosen entirely for practical purposes of simplifying the rules and reducing word count and printing space, is the true measure of RAI?
Yes, I state that the format is another indication, since there is
at no point in the book defined what is exotic and what is not. Your statement that this was chosen for practical purpose and simplification is pure assumption.
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Flamethrowers use liquid fuel. It is literally impossible to mod for Full Auto fire because the physics do not operate that way, and because the rules obviously and plainly cannot represent such a thing, even in abstraction. Flamethrowers are obviously exotic, not because they only have one type of fuel listed purchaseable, but because you're shooting a goddamn stream of flaming liquid and not a bullet.
Of course they aren't shooting bullets. But that's not the point. The point is, that flamer fuel is, as well as assault cannon rounds, exotic, because it is in a separate category, with separate price and separate availability.
Oh, and it is, as well as assault cannon rounds, listed under 'Miscellaneous ammo', which says:
"Miscellaneous ammunition includes special types of ammunition usually used in exotic or otherwise unique weapons" (Arsenal, p. 35)
Admittedly, this is only another indication, and it isn't listed there in the core book, but it's another point that supports my interpretation.
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Argument Against Exotic
- AC Ammo Is A Kind of Bullet
- AC Ammo Is Kept In A Clip
- AC Ammo Is Loaded And Chambered Like All Other Non-Exotic Ammo
These are all real world reasons. Even if it's a kind of bullet, kept in a clip and is chambered like every other firearm, that does not mean it isn't exotic.
If real world reasoning would apply, a whole lot of other things would work very differently. Multiple pages threads on this forum have gone back and forth about those issues without resolution either
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- AC Ammo DV and AP is IDENTICAL to Non-Exotic Barret Model 121 EX-Explosive Round
Good point, in principle, but: Do assault cannon rounds also explode when you roll a critical glitch? No. Sorry, this doesn't cut it.
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- Absolutely No Game Balance Reason To Deny Assault Cannons FA
I agree.
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- Absolutely No Fluff Reason To Deny Assault Cannons FA Fire
- Absolutely No RAW Reason To Deny Assault Cannons FA Fire
These are no arguments, these are statements, and, as I've already said: They are entirely dependent on your interpretation of the words in the books. I don't share it, hence we have different opinions.
By fluff reasons, I assume you're referring to the thing about real world firearms? If so, I agree, but I can't discuss this properly, as I have not enough knowledge about it.
To wit:
I've used the time to look up if there is _any_ kind of exotic ammunition in either arsenal or the core book. I've found none that is described as such, only the 'Miscellaneous' entry in Arsenal.
Not flamethrower fuel tanks. Not water, not any kind of ammunition that is loaded into exotic weapons is described as 'exotic ammunition'.
Furthermore, an exotic weapon does not necessarily require exotic ammunition, so I don't think "Exotic ammunition is what is loaded into an exotic weapon" is a valid definition either.
And, to reiterate:
I do believe that your view is
entirely valid. You have to come up with a definition for what ammunition is exotic to really decide if a weapon can be modded for FA. There is none provided. Your definition is different than mine.
Edit: Oh, and after reading your last posting, Umidori. I am not going down to your levels of condescension and snarkiness, but your tone is hurting your points. It is not as clear as you make it out to be and your 'fallacious nonsense' insult will not win you a flower pot. At this point, I am out of patience and will stop discussing the topic with you, since this seems to be your default behavior when someone is not sharing your views. You're free to consider or ignore my points, have a nice day.