And with that, the preview on how magic works in SR5.

Download herez.

Let's kick this pig.

1) Area spells. Hmm. I'm hoping spell descriptions for stuff like Fireball tells you to treat it like an explosion, affecting people around corners, stopping at a transparent barrier, etc.

2) Multiple spells. Hoping the double-power-focus thing is cleanly snipped. Otherwise cool.

3) Reckless spellcasting. Interesting. Can you Recklessly cast Multiple spells? "I cast Fireball and Fireball and Fireball and Fireball!"

4) The flip to Physical Drain is now based on net hits rather than Force. Interesting way of doing it. So you can cast at Force 10, but if you get 1 hit you're still only taking (a whole lot of) Stun Drain.

5) Drain minimum of 2. Crazy town. I guess there's no point to casting Force 1 Stunbolts anyway.

6) Spells are subject to normal visibility modifiers. Affected by Cover, though? Is Cover a visibility modifier, or are those just dark/light/smoke/etc?

I wonder why they stuck with astral combat tests being willpower based. What exactly is your astral logic as agility doing anyways? Charisma still adds into astral combat as the stomp you into the ground stat why shouldn't logic be the ability to connect stat? On an overall scale I am also curious what the various stats do for magic in general, charisma has always had # of spirits tied to it, what does logic get if anything still focuses?, what about intuition for the eventual intuition based traditions.(Personally I don't like them, its just a too easy way for orks to dodge their weakness in this archetype) I think being tied to assensing is enough for intuition but whaever.

I would say cover works if it is concealing. In other words, being half-hidden behind a trashed car would help you, but crouching behind a clear ballistic shield wouldn't.

For all of the talk about making hermetics and shamans more distinct, I didn't see it, other than a bit more fluff about their attitudes. I'm fine with that myself, as I prefer for them to use the same mechanics and just differ on things like Drain Attributes and what spirits they can summon. Others might be a bit disappointed, though.

I wish we had seen even a few spells, to get an idea of what typical Drain will be like. I am also interested in how Immunity to Normal Weapons has been revised, if at all, for spirits. For all of the gimping they have done to direct combat spells, it was high Force spirits that were one of the real unbalancing factors in magic. Although with damage levels going up across the board, leaving spirit hardened armor exactly the same would actually be weakening it to a more manageable level.

While immunity to normal weapons was an issue I foudd the versatility of a spirits powers the big problem. It was like gettig dozens of spells for free. I kind of think spirits should have a really narrow base list and thier optional powers should be things you would have to invest karma in in order to learn how to invest a spirit with that ability.

I like this idea! Really fleshes out and gives flavor to conjuring, as opposed to just investing in one skill (like any other skill) and being able to use it to be (arguably) the most powerful skill in the game. And it would make for some cool side-quests too, where the mage searches for the magic formula to be able to invest their summoned spirits with the Movement power...

I would even think something like this would be hella interesting for spellcasting too. No longer can you learn firebolt, you learn a basic direct-damage attack and then learn (spend karma) on optional effects you can add, like fire/acid/cold/etc.

Previously, magic hasn't worked that way. You can't cast a spell through a glass windowpane, for example, because it acts as an astral barrier. (That said, you could still use optical devices like binoculars to "aim" your spells at distant targets, et cetera.)

~Umi

Where are you getting that from? I don't see anything in the rules about transparent barriers impeding spells. Even the physical barrier spell doesn't stop spells.

I think he is thinking of mirrored glass in a car preventing you from casting into the interior as you can not see the target. It's why most of the megas have mirrored windows on the buildings.

A mana spell should work as it travels via astral, but a physical spell typically travels from you to target so would have to overcome the glass in the way to the target.

Mana spells require LoS too.

Nothing new here.

Nice to see that spelled out so clearly.

-CJ

Area spells have always only affected what you can see. Any reason why you would think it should change in this edition?

Yes, but if you can see the target through said window you can still use a direct combat spell. (pg 281 on preview: line of sight can be established with your natural vision, including using reflective surfaces and looking through transparent objects)

Please note a very dirty window that restricted your view would apply dice modifers just like smoke or fog, depending on how bad it was.

(Note to self: Bring Windex and squeegee on next run)

Now if the mage is using astral sight at the time, Glyph is right that the window is opaque looking on the astral and you would not see the target on the other side unless maybe he was pressed up against it so his own aura was bleeding through and even then its iffy.

Again, a mirrored window that blocks you from seeing whats behind it will pretty much stop a direct spell, but in that case you just break the window first, whether with gun, hammer or spell, to get the to chewy bits on the other side.

A polarized window, which if I recall correctly is the default in the Sixth World, would prevent you from seeing inside at all and thus block line of sight.

I'm quite sure a lot og shop don't have polarized windows. Otherwise window shopping just becomes even more boring.

There are different levels of polarized and the default for most companies is the highly polarized versions that do block you from seeing in.

Some storefronts however still often have lower polarized windows. You can see in but it cuts the reflective glare you get from walking by a window on a sunny day. Otherwise how would you see in?

Also I imagine the poorer parts of town still use old fashioned glass or plexy and polarizing is probably not a standard option.

AR does help a lot for stores on this as you can have all your sale items on virtual display. But you would still normally have some items on physical display.

Likewise you might have windows inside a building, conference rooms and some offices come to mind for this. Again you could see through these and thus targeting is possible.

Just imagine what would happen if the spell Demolish Window got circulated on the 'trix translated into like, the four or five most common traditions, free of charge.

What about Weaponize Window?

Hmm..

Change Plexiglass to C12?

Ok maybe not, but am sure there could be some fun with this.

wait.

how about Reverse Polarizing?

Changes the polarization of the window allowing those outside to see through the window while the inside is now polarized such that they cant see out.

Will have to think on this one...

I was basically thinking "convert window to shards and hit things with the shards".

That would work too... that would be nasty if you were close to it.




So the preview says you CAN do two quickcasts in an action phase.

Whether or not you can not pass out from drain after remains a question.

There is going to be some howling about that, seeing as another section said you can normally only do one attack action per phase, which raises the question was this a typo and someone using a gun could use two simple actions for shooting or not.

Two times reckless spellcasting does not necessarily mean two attacks.

On the subject of Traditions, it's entirely possible there are more details on Mages and Shamans elsewhere in the Magic Chapter. That reading and layout is no dissimilar to SR3 where each had a column around the core magic rules and then each got a couple of pages of more in depth description. People have alluded to there being a greater difference again so it's possible.

You can cast 2 spells if your willing to 5+ drain for both, but only one of them can be attack spell.
Do note you could also use some otherkind of attack and cast a non attack spell in the same IP.

That would make sense following the 1 attack per action phase, but it leaves a whole murky area there, especially in terms of what constitutes an attack in the case of magic.

So can I fast cast a manabolt to strike the target and fastcast Ice Sheet in the area of the target so if he tries to move he risks slipping and sliding? The Ice Sheet is not a specific attack (ie a combat spell), and if he does not try to move he won't suffer any ill effects (barring maybe heavy recoil of a gun may send his skidding back a bit)

Where does it say that casting a spell, even a combat spell, is an "attack action"?

Looking at the Combat preview the Single Attack Action thing only applies to Simple Action Firing a Firearm (Ss,Sa,Bf,FA). You can do that but only once as a simple action on a phase. Spell casting is its own action and the Magic section provides its own rules for doing so. (Note that you can fire a gun in each hand using the Simple or Complex actions and target multiple targets with the addition of the Multiattack free action).

So if you really wanted to you COULD kick off two Manabolts with a Simple action against two targets and then Two more mana bolts at two more targets.... But you'll possibley kill yourself in the process. (Or pump all four into one target). But with Force being limit, let's say that 4 Force 6 mana balls to do some damage you've got 4 drains at rating 9 to try and shrug off.... Not to mention the Net hits being the damage quota of Direct Combat Spells.... It's really not worth doing with spending a bucket of Edge, Reagents and using Foci, in short it's a "Oh sh&@£!" moment.

No its a general rule.

I'm assuming you have an origins book then Max? Because its nowhere in the preview material as a general rule. So confirmation of that would be cool. (Or are one of the Dev team of course)

Straight from the preview#4
Simple Actions
A Simple Action is one step more complicated than a
Free Action and requires more concentration to attempt.
During his Action Phase, a character may take two
Simple Actions, though only one can be an attack action.
A character may also take a Free Action with the two Simple
Actions.

Well, yes... It does. (not sure how I missed that given I'm reading the things line by line as I'm looking in from 2editions ago).

However, even with that, you can still off your Complex Action or Simple Action (for rapid casting) send off multiple Bolts etc as the Multicasting still only uses that one action for All the spells ( and comes with its drawbacks) although I would imagine doing so should require the Multiattack Free Action to be used.

Seems straight forward until you get into a debate over what constitutes a attack spell.

A) So can I fast cast a manabolt to strike the target and fastcast Ice Sheet in the area of the target so if he tries to move he risks slipping and sliding? The Ice Sheet is not a specific attack (ie a combat spell), and if he does not try to move he won't suffer any ill effects (barring maybe the recoil of a gun may send him skidding back a bit as he snorts and shoots me in the face) or do you count this as an attack?

B) Same casting but change targets slightly, still manabolt the target, but then I use the fast cast Ice Sheet in front of the target so it only interferes with him if he tries to close with me, basically a defensive action on my part. Target still shoots me in the face.

C) Change the casting a bit. Still fastcast a manabolt, but then fastcast a Physical Barrier between us so he can not immediately shoot me on his turn (or at least has to chew through the force field first). Same effect as example B in the sense the second spell has the potential to interfere with the target depending on the target's actions with the added bonus of not getting shot in the face.

I would imagine anything that deals damage to a target (Stunbolt, manaball, lightning etc) would be Attack.

Well yes, all the Combat spells should be counted as an attack action, but its the rest of the spells that gets into that grey area, it's sort of situational.

Elemental/Indirect Spells do not have that problem. They can affect targets you cannot see, as long as they have an unimpeded line of effect.

That is what AR is for. *shrug*
Or AR Glass, in this case.

Because spells like Fireball actually create fire in their area of effect. I've always thought that they should be treated as explosions, or directed attacks emanating from the center of the spell (that is, a Fireball that appears on the same side of cover as you should ignore the cover).

Actually while You do need to see the primary target of the spell, Indirect Combat spells will affect other targets that are unseen by the caster as long as they are caught within the spell’s area of effect. (Shadowrun 4 FAQ)

Same should apply in 5th for the Indirect spells there.

Again the Direct spells you have to see all your targets you are gonna hit within the aoe as you have to 'lock on' to all of them so to speak, while the Indirect creates the area of effect and you only needed to 'lock on' to its center.

The recent article 'War!' even has a magical equivalent of a grenade with a spell that you can toss the charged ball down the hall and bounce around a bit before triggering it to blow up, affecting those within its blast.

Again, where does it say that casting a spell, even a combat spell, is an "attack action"?

How would you justify saying that attacking someone with a spell is not an attack action? Unless there's a specific and explicitly exhaustive listing, you have to use a little common sense.

Okay, back to another magics question that got asked.... Is there any disadvantage to playing a Mystic Adept?....

I agree that it seems to be a clear "common sense" assumption, but common sense is a subjective thing and rule systems should be objective whenever possible. especially in a combat related area. Is there a definition of the term "attack action" in the rulebook? For that matter is there a glossary of terms in the rulebook?

So far the only concrete drawback is the loss of Astral Projection. There is speculation that a choice must be made between raising the magic attribute or gaining additional Power Points on initiation. It has even been speculated that you can never gain more Power Points, but nothing has been verified by someone with the book to my knowledge.

You gain an extra Power Point whenever you raise your Magic attribute or when you Initiate instead of gaining a Metamagic. For both mystic and conventional adepts, according to preview material. Obviously as with Mages and Shaman there could be any number of things to do with the magical traditions and options we don't yet know.

pg 278-279 of the latest preview does show that at chargen, adepts receive Power Points equal to their Magic attribute, while mystic adepts have to buy Power Points with Karma. Subsequently, Power Points can come in
two ways. You get a free Power Point whenever you increase your Magic attribute, and you can gain a Power Point through Initiation (p. 324) instead of gaining a metamagic.

Your Magic should still go up through the initiation, but the Power point you would have gotten for it can be used for metamagic instead. Most mystic adepts will probably favour a mix with some power points and relevant metamagics to round out the character.

As to other drawbacks, its mostly deciding where to spend your points really, do you devote more to the earthly Self (adept powers) or higher Self (metamagics). Finding the right blend can be rewarding, but takes a bit of planning.

Of course it also means any Magic loss hits you doubly hard, reducing your Magic for dice pools and possibly losing effective power points thus shutting down an adept power.

Your miss reading that.
You get a power point when you raise your magic and you can also sele3ct to take a powerpoint instead of a meta magic when you initiate.
For those who have the book(or writers), does all this mean that myssadds dont have to split their magic between adet and mage side anymore, but instead when ever they raise magic they both get better at spell casting and get a more adept powers?

What I'm taking away from this is that triggermen have been nerfed pretty hard, by being able to fire only once per pass regardless of whether shooting is a Simple or Complex action. Is this an accurate assessment? What is the rationale for this?

Revised-

So it would appear, my apologies.

I had first read it as Magic goes up automatically with initiation, but it has been pointed out that you still have to pay to actually raise it.

Not sure what it was like in SR4, but you can fire a gun essentially as much as you could in SR3. Semi auto fire is now just a Complex action instead of a Simple for pulling the trigger twice and you can shoot multiple targets if your doing a burst or multi shot of any kind. It just uses the Multiattack free action for your turn to do so. How multi targeting actually functions I don't know because only working off of preview material. You can also still fire a gun in your off hand along with your primary gun as part of the same simple of complex action (which is why I think multi spelling on the action with attacking spells is valid).