The logic, from one of the freelancers, is that the 2075 form of cloud computing doesn't rely on dedicated servers, or really anything from the manufacturer - idle-process sharing is built into the new protocol, so in effect the distribution is across everything in about a kilometer of you; this also has the side effect of taking away a lot of the issues of transmission there and back again.

And throwing more compute power at something doesn't intrinsically make things better, but throwing more compute power at a problem with a time constraint (in this case, "must work in live time") allows for the use of algorithms that take a lot more processing but provide superior results.

And let's not forget that with the mesh network, "wireless on" intrinsically means "on Matrix" unless you can't get a connection for some reason.

Now, some of the bonuses don't make sense - we can all agree on WR/RE, I'm sure. So why don't we set that aside for the moment and look at some other ones where maybe there actually are reasonable arguments either way?

Some good ideas when the cyberware actually could benefit from being wirelessly connected, but they are trying to make this universal.

Why? My computer can't answer that question for me without Google. I can do it on a smartphone with the right programs but it would probably take me a minute instead of 5 seconds.

Or I could pop over to Wolfram Alpha and ask how many calories a cubic parsec of fried chicken would have, which is a question with enough variables that calculating an answer would take awhile.



Bonuses! It's bonuses!

It really depends on how they interact, and how you're treating the Reflex Trigger.

Technically (if you really want to run it correctly) you run with your Wired Reflexes off and you have to spend a free action to flip them on (or else you look like you're cracked out most of the time), and you don't get the Initiative (+dice in SR3, +IPs in SR4) boost until the next turn (no adding IPs mid-turn). You'd get the Reaction immediately, for what it's worth. If you know you're moving into combat, you could just have them on, of course.

Reaction Enhancers have the benefit of always being on, and granting you your Reaction all the time (factoring into your base Initiative), so if you're ambushed walking your dog, your Reaction Enhancers are up, and then you flip your Wired Reflexes on, and then you need to worry about how they stack.

Apparently in SR5, in 'offline' mode, the Wireless Reflexes would override the Reaction Enhancers (though I suppose you'd get to take the better of each category, so Reaction Enhancers 3 and Wired Reflexes 1 would give you 3 Reaction and +1 Initiative die) rather than stacking (+4 Reaction +1 Initiative dice), though you could take the online risk for the full set.

I imagine that with deltaware Wired Reflexes 3 and Reaction Enhancers 4 (if such a thing exists) you could probably replicate Max Reaction Augmentation (+4 max for attribute augments) and Max Bonus Initiative Dice (that you could get from rating 3 WR anyway) and be offline safe and sound.

EDIT: The above is just speculation about how the stacking/nonstacking would work, I don't actually know. If it's EITHER Wired Reflexes 1 (+1 Rea +1 Init) OR Reaction Enhancers (+3 Rea) I might make frowny faces at it.

A bit more than frowny faces! But yeah, I'd love to know how the stacking works and also if all the interactions are clearly spelled out - this really shouldn't be something left to houserules.

Plus as a runner I want anyone AND their dog to be able to follow after me and being able to tell exactly what I was doing by checking on which of my wireless devices were connecting to the Matrix and how.

Read what I wrote on the page before this about the Matrix being a sort of technological astral space. The Matrix doesn't exist inside meatspace anymore, meatspace exists within Matrix space.

Unless you really go out into the boonies.

Yeah. Not having the book, I can't give you a definitive answer. Sorry. I'm with you, though. It seems like they should do something right? That's why I suggested that perhaps the best bonus applies, instead of the cumulative bonus of the two pieces working together. That would qualify for still providing some effect.


Nah. It shouldn't work like that. Likely the protocols are implemented to allow process sharing to occur anonymously.



It is what it is. And Your Individual Mileage May Vary. Having not read the core book yet, I really can't comment on whether or not the reasons provided are good enough to justify such a massive backslide. In part because I don't see the backslide as massive -- it appears that in a number of cases, the 'spirit' of the original functionality has been preserved -- and two because distributed computer is a pretty compelling case today to rethink technology models, so extrapolating it out 60 years into the future implies to me that it can accomplish some fairly impressive feats.

But then again, I'm familiar with the underpinnings of modern cryptography and I'm still willing to accept the Shadowrun near-instantaneous brute force decryption that goes on, so maybe the bar I set to hand wave technology is too low.

SR Dev: "In the future, it works different."
Wired: "Oh. Okay.... shiny."

*shrug*

I will say, however, that by and large the existing changes to the system appear to have been very elegant and well thought out. The introduction of limits has some wildly interesting effects on the dice. The streamlining of combat should improve the 'feel' of combat and the flow. I expect this mechanic will work out fairly well (though I do have some mundane vs. awakened balance questions lingering) and I suspect that when the roar dies down, most people will probably learn to operate inside the new framework and even enjoy it while they're at it.

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

This doesn't make any sense as far as needing a matrix connection. I could, instead, just have commlinks daisy-chained together to provide that additional computing. I could have commlinks whose only purpose is to provide that additional information and processing power. How many do I need? 1? 10? 100? Could I use partitioning and emulation to substitute? Co-processors? Does it MAGICALLY prevent the same processing power from working, when I program the firmware for it myself? Where does the limit sit? Why wouldn't wires, direct connection, and DNI provide better connection and response? These are the main issues. Saying "because MAGIC" or "because RESONANCE" isn't answering the questions, it's disregarding the intelligence of the audience. For some, it's insulting. I'm willing to channel this into an in-character impetus (which may relegate my character to the position of too-profitable-to-run).

The superior, DNI and offline technology STILL exists, in a form that can be updated to the modern needs. If the Triple A's have abandoned that technology, there will be PLENTY of people ready to exploit it, forcing the Triple A corps to rollback their standards, or at least offer something more. That's how market forces work, even in such an economically dominated landscape as the SR 2070's. If all you can offer is argumentum ad magice as the explanation for everything, you're audience is not at all likely to feel engaged, let alone satisfied with that answer (unless your topic is something inherently interesting, such as "Why did that guy's head just explode!?").

You really think it's possible, in practical terms, to carry a sufficient number of devices? Because that's something I just don't buy.

Troll with 2 bandoleers and a belt full of commlinks daisy-chained front and back, implants... possibly a vehicle with it's own nexus. Personally-equipped sensor packs, co-processors built into each of those commlinks and each major bit of cyberware to handle additional processing power. I daresay this could easily get you up to 20-40 devices (depending on the size of the commlinks and the size of the troll). Each boot can have a built-in commlink, as could each individual article of clothing (less socks). This isn't even counting exclusive mesh access to teammates' gear, a van-installed nexus, etc.

Beyond that, you ignored the fact that fully-functional DNI and wired technology already exists. Trying to enforce a new, inferior standard will fall flat when security firms and corporate armies realize they can buy, through unofficial channels, comparable offline cyber that isn't as vulnerable or update-/DRM-dependent. The technology and specifications already exist to fabricate such things, without the hazard of Always-OnLine connections. It may even be possible to "downgrade" the new tech to the old standards so that it works better, more securely. This isn't magic, this isn't unheard of, it isn't even contradictory to the Shadowrun setting, ethos, or cyberpunk as a whole. In fact, it's about as cyberpunk as you can go for Shadowrun, sticking it to the greedy corporate types by undermining their authority and their business.

There are a thousand reasons you could give. I'm leaning toward the one that says DNIs as wired data-carrying devices are sufficiently immersed in the Matrix to be affected by Matrix signals anyway, and you can no longer get your free offline lunch.

After all, Technomancers aren't really magic, you know, they're people who are extra-sensitive to that Matrix soup everyone's living in and have bypassed the need for technology to interact with it. If you go down this road, you could arguably explain why Technomancers lose Resonance if they take cyberware, since the cyberware interactions with the Matrix confuse their natural senses.

Anyway, you guys are the ones that bought into the transhumanist singularity data cloud aspects introduced in SR4, you might as well accept the consequences of the genre.

Items that aren't compatible with one another grant only the benefit of the better of the two. They can be implanted in a character, but you only get the benefit of whichever is better.

So, using the WR example, when you turn your wireless off, you're basically also turning off either your Reaction Enhancers or your Wired Reflexes, whichever gives you less of a bonus (which will, of course, vary from character to character depending on what ranks they got of each.

It's worth pointing out that it's a particularly potent wireless bonus (which makes it kind of funny that people keep mentioning it as the default), because not only does it let two pieces of init-enhancing 'ware stack (which is normally a no-no), but it also specifically lets you bypass the "augmented attribute maximum is natural stat +4" bonus...and is, in fact, the only combo in the book that lets you do so, right off the top of my head. All just FYI.

Okay, screw it, this is killer. WR3 and RE3 online for 12 Reaction and 4d6 Initiative dice.

Still seems like notably less then what would typically be in a 1 kilometer radius. And DNI/wired doesn't replace distributed computing, so no, I haven't ignored that - it is simply not relevant to the question.

Didn't see it posted here yet, so thanks to KI here it is: Wireless boni in all their greatness

Hard to pick a favorite in this clusterfuck, but I think the Internal Air Tank takes the pize: You have an air tank implanted, it is connected via DNI, but that DNI cannot monitor filling levels and it needs the distributed computing power of the matrix to transmit the immensely complex "open valve" command. DAFUQ DID YOU GUYS SMOKE?

Yes, the bonus stuff is seriously dumb . .

I think I need to understand your thought processes more. At a high level, it starts with this: Why do you play Shadowrun?

And I think it drills down like this: Are you Players or GMs?

If you're a player, do you get any enjoyment out of roleplaying? Do you get enjoyment out of challenges? Cause some players only like RPGs because they make a min-maxed character that can't be hurt he's so edge-case built. What kind of player are you? What are you looking for in Shadowrun?

If you're a GM, do you come up with your own ideas or you just run module (like, say Corporate Intrigue, the Artifacts missions, etc)? Do you have persionality issues with your players? Are you always trying to fuck them over while they try to fuck you over? Or does the GM and players work cooperatively to build something everyone likes?

Got as far down that list as the first item before having to close the tab and running to the bathroom to puke.

Igoring that stupidity, I came back and read as far as the second listed item



"Hello, can you hear me ? ... no wait .. let me wave this thing around till I get a signal ........... let me call you back, there's been a terrible accident!"

Sorry, but most of it does not sound that silly, if you are ready to deal with the idea that they might have streamlined the matrix rules.
If you go online (no matter to do what and if it is even to exchange data with your granade) you are online and in the matrix.
I like it, because it streamlines the matrix a bit with the astral world. Most things in the real world get their counterpart in the matrix if they get active. I like the general Idea a lot.

Yeah a lot of the things sound like: We had no idea what to do with it.

But if you go with the idea Epicedion brought up it makes sense.

looks like

as long as you can get your head round the way they "think" a distributed network, works, apparently

every device is 'Dumb' and the network is a web of 'Smart' Access point controllers, that use the distributed computing power for majority of things (that require it)

but it seems all your gear needs the wifi connection to even activate

Cyberspurs - I mean really ? needs a web connection to find the intelligence necessary to extract from sheath? even if you take the following to be true and they fugged up.
"Needs a connection to the Matrix"
to mean
"Needs a connection to your PAN"

I'll have whatever they been smokin'

And if I only connect to the item but don't connect to the matrix as a whole I'm somehow not "online enough"
Wireless grenade in a Faraday cage? Nope, the grenade may be in your PAN but not in the matrix, so no wireless detonation
Gecko Gloves connected to your datajack by FO cable? That is not a connection capable of transmitting the "gecko off" command, you need to relay that connection through the matrix first
Defiance EX Taser? Well, it specifically has wires but those wires cannot transmit information, nor can the darts send the data to some other device (like your commlink), the taser needs to be online to receive the health data

But if you are indeed convinced that "most of it does not sound that silly", that would be at least 31 of 61 items in the list. Have fun...



...which cannot work, because unlike astral space the topology matrix is in no way bound to the layout of the physical world. The matrix representation of Renraku's glass skyscraper might look like a Pagoda with completely different architecture, where exactly are you going to place the coffee machine in floor 100 there?


@Mach10: I think we can say without reservation that all the "matrix connection reduces this to Simple/Free Action" stuff needs to be killed with fire. Bipods that need a connection to Folding@Home, WTF Catalyst? Have they been hotboxing on a chemical dump site?

I can get behind this.

I can understand if some of these "Matrix Bonuses" were really just "Wireless Bonuses." It doesn't sound like most of them realistically NEED a connection to the matrix, just a connection to your PAN. The grenade makes sense to have a PAN connection, which could still expose it to hacking attempts. WR+RE speaking to each other via PAN isn't unreasonable either, though a direct connection would be much more efficient, and a simple data-processing module would be perfectly understandable as an addition to eliminate that need for the security-conscious individual (possibly at some essence/capacity loss for the implant) for those implants requiring additional processing power, even give such an implant a "device limit," and force them to pre-register/hard-wire the devices with it before implanting.

[quote name='Sengir' date='Jun 26 2013, 01:24 PM' post='1236893']
And if I only connect to the item but don't connect to the matrix as a whole I'm somehow not "online enough"
Wireless grenade in a Faraday cage? Nope, the grenade may be in your PAN but not in the matrix, so no wireless detonation
Gecko Gloves connected to your datajack by FO cable? That is not a connection capable of transmitting the "gecko off" command, you need to relay that connection through the matrix first
Defiance EX Taser? Well, it specifically has wires but those wires cannot transmit information, nor can the darts send the data to some other device (like your commlink), the taser needs to be online to receive the health data

But if you are indeed convinced that "most of it does not sound that silly", that would be at least 31 of 61 items in the list. Have fun...
[quote]
No you can't. You send a wireless signal and it is part of the matrix.

Then again, I do not get your problem. You are totally free to ignore the matrix connection and to ignore the boni. You find the silly, well you do not need to use them, at ALL. This rule is inherently optional. Thats like saying: I think datajacks suck. Alright, you do not need to get any...

[quote name='Sengir' date='Jun 26 2013, 01:24 PM' post='1236893']
And if I only connect to the item but don't connect to the matrix as a whole I'm somehow not "online enough"
Wireless grenade in a Faraday cage? Nope, the grenade may be in your PAN but not in the matrix, so no wireless detonation
Gecko Gloves connected to your datajack by FO cable? That is not a connection capable of transmitting the "gecko off" command, you need to relay that connection through the matrix first
Defiance EX Taser? Well, it specifically has wires but those wires cannot transmit information, nor can the darts send the data to some other device (like your commlink), the taser needs to be online to receive the health data

But if you are indeed convinced that "most of it does not sound that silly", that would be at least 31 of 61 items in the list. Have fun...
[quote]
No you can't. You send a wireless signal and it is part of the matrix.

Then again, I do not get your problem. You are totally free to ignore the matrix connection and to ignore the boni. You find the silly, well you do not need to use them, at ALL. This rule is inherently optional. Thats like saying: I think datajacks suck. Alright, you do not need to get any...

What I think this rule is trying to do, is to get rid of interconnecting devices inside your body, logic be damned.

Hmm . . activating cyberware/DNI-Stuff was always a free action . .
wonder if that will be a contradiction in the rules or if that changed. .

First off, I think we're talking about a single pair of systems, ne? Wired reflexes and reaction enhancers?

Second, it's not a retcon. It's a retcon of a retcon of a retcon. In SR3, the two systems were compatible. In SR4, they weren't. In SR4A, they were, and in SR5 they sorta aren't but really they are. You lose the safety blanket of non-hackability if you want to stack the two systems, but you also get to go beyond the +4 enhancement cap if you've got the guts to do so. And between you and me, it's actually pretty hard for a hacker to take out a device in a single shot, and you're made aware of an attack when it lands, so unless you're out of your league you'll have plenty of time for that Free Action to switch the wireless off on those occasions when the GM has a hacker behind her screen.

at what point are you "made aware" and by what mechanism? or do you mean
" you suddenly become aware you are moving slower than a geriatric paraplegic ... in a vat of treacle... against a force 8 wind!"

It's been compared to a "Check Engine" light in other threads, and that's a pretty good analogy. The rules say that the owner of a device (and the device itself if it has a pilot program) is aware of a successful Attack action against the device, but not its source. If that successful Attack action doesn't brick the device, you can toggle the wireless.

ghotcha thanks,

sooo, what constitutes an attack ?
finding your node,
entering it
or once inside, actively beginning the shutdown sequence and killing your RE/WR

the reason I ask is that every kid on the block has a wireless matrix scanner looking for barely secured nodes, that'd be setting your "check engine" light off all the damn time
compared to once a hacker actually gets in and starts changing your wallpaper and screensaver!

Sure, and if I connect my Laptop to an AP with no outside access it's the internet...

I'm finding it frustrating to continue talking about this subject. I'm gonna give myself some more time. Unfortunately, the arguments seem to evolve every time I step away from the forums. More and more, I feel like I'm just going to have to house rule a lot of things in the end, which is rather unfortunate.

I think the reason I keep getting frustrated is that I keep feeling like my intelligence is being insulted. Every reason I've heard for these changes so far has not only failed to convince me, it's actually seemed outright stupid or dumb, to the point that they actually begin to seem like weak excuses for adding a new mechanism, rather than compelling arguments for making the game system and world more immersive and fun.

So I'm gonna bow out here, at least for now. I can't promise I won't come back to this and similar threads, because hey, I'm excited and hopeful and worried about the new game system all at once, but at least for the moment I'm gonna just state that 1) I'm not convinced this is going to work and 2) I'll be trying my hardest to be patient until I have more information.

Signing off.

~Umi

Every Matrix action is either an Attack, Sleaze, Data Processing, or Firewall action. So the Attack actions (including the Data Spike that is the primary damaging action) are all labeled as such.

@Umi
There is only one reason for this Bulldrek.

"Hackers need to be able to do something in Combat without shelling out for stuff outside of their specialisation!"


The only reason why a focus does not need to be online to do it's thing and so the hacker can do something against it is probably because Magic trumps Matrix trumps Muscle.

Personally.... I'd love to see the wireless bonus for your cranial bomb.

Because first of all, who willingly takes a cranial bomb?
Second of all, for all of those who did take a cranial bomb willingly, why would you want to make it matrix accessible.

Mostly it would cement my opinion on the insanity of SR5.

So I've been thinking.

The whole point of the wireless bonuses is apparently that you're taking advantage of cloud computing, and having random other devices donate their power to help compute stuff for you right?

So theoretically, with more hardware inherent, you could bypass that, just by having the extra processor power inherent in the device.


So what if instead of "Wireless bonuses" you had a Wireless version of the device that took less essence/less upgrade slots/whatever. So your Wired Reflexes costs 2/3/5 essence like normal. But a Wired Reflexes designed to take advantage of Matrix Computing instead takes 1.5/2.25/3.75 essence. Your gun's smartlink might normally take up two upgrade slots, but if you had one made to take advantage of Matrix Computing it instead only takes 1, the same as a laser sight. And so on.

Basically under this model you completely get rid of the bonuses idea, and instead make things that have wireless enabled significantly cheaper/more efficient. No more complaints about "But my gear used to work just fine before!" because that gear will still work just like it did offline, but now gear that has been made to work online is straight up more efficient. A Sammy willing to deal with Wireless Ware will fit a lot more into his body, but if one didn't want to take the risk, that is an option for him too.


Just a thought I had while thinking about this earlier.

Wait . . Technically, isn't the worst a Hacker can do to the Cranial Bomb to BRICK it?
Would that not mean that it's there, it's taking up Essence, but it can't ever go boom?

newp, the worst he can do is write an algorithm that pings it wirelessly at random intervals, reminding you that it's there waiting to be "toyed with" for all eternity..

you didn't really enjoy sleeping anyway!

<<@luser[admin] : NODE:CRANIAL BOMB - was {Pinged} 37 times while you were out by {L33T-KIDDEH17} ... delete messages? >>

Well, I would assume detonating it would be the worst a hacker could do and if they can't do that then I would say that's disappointing.

The Samurai-loving-player in me breathed a heavy sigh of relief upon reading that, by default, this stuff is non-stackable and cannot exceed the maximum augmentation cap of +4... But by enabling matrix access, that limit may be exceeded. That is, by definition, a bonus. Not a penalty.

It means that the system was probably balanced around non-stackable bonuses. And it also likely means that there is some parity of performance between previous stackable editions, and the current non-stackable implementation.

Now, provided there isn't some silly rule where Magic + Technology may still provide some cumulative bonus, a number of my fears have been laid to rest.

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

The Internet is NOT the MATRIX.

The point is 80% of Cyberware would have problems working with physics, human biologie, chemistery or even the human anatomie.

Most of the matrix stuff would not work in the "Internet". Or do you think a cyberattack consists of two icons fighting each other with comic weapons?
Even most Basic rules like the rule for sustaining damage has areas where it just goes off the rails...
And do I have to talk about magic.

So the idea to say: Alright, everything which is "wireless" is now part of the matrix, is not that far streatched. The benefit of making the game much easier outweight the nearly non existant loss of realism 10 to 1.
What I am wondering is, that realism gets always an issue if boni are dropped. But you can't hear this point beeing made so vocaly if boni are introduced...

If your position would be to just stick with the non-online boni and ignore the rest, you would be honest and consistant. But you are not.
It is about getting the boni but somehow cheat your way out of the drawbacks. Thats what happend a lot in the 4E. Dumpshock was full of threads "how can I get A without having to suffer B".
And in most of the cases the solution was to just use "common sense" outside the rules. This door was partly closed, and sorry, thats a good thing no matter how silly the boni in particular are.
It is about the game design principle. You can't just introduce a benefit and then handwave the disadventage as it was done in the 4E.
If your gun sends A signal to your eyes there are several possibilities.
Every single one should have drawbacks and adventages. Now a major issue is, that you need to take into account the complexity.
I would love a system where you get a little drawing of the human body with visible muscles and nerves and capacity limits for the chest, the head, the abdomen etc. and you could draw in the the connections between cyberware (of course there are rules how the connections could be running) and if you have to many "connections" your physical limits for example would drop or your agility, because those cable disrupt movement etc. pp. or the elctrical signals interfere with your nervous system, hell I do not care something like that.
That would be a lot of fun for me building and optimizing my cyberware buildout. (If I take the bioware I save on the connection, but it would take up head capacity which I would prefere to spend on the other thing, and I nearly do not need chest capacity or I could go wireless but...)
I would love such a complex building system. But I do understand, that this would be overkill for most. And a lot of people would not even bring up the patience to build a less then avarage samurai.

OK, so, on the german official board somebody asked a pretty interesting question:
What about all those oh so nasty Zero-Zone-Laboratories etc. the Corps have around?
Are they now all lit up to enable Matrix-Access for their Stuff, or is an attacker that uses a Sattelite-Dish gonna walk all over them?

They seem to range from bad(pretty much all of the speed based ones which could be handled with any other link), to okay, too nice solid benefit.

Opening a cyber smuggling compartment? Its freaking DNI and a open command this isn't complex cloud computing.

Some of the okay ones are the things like the Gas Mask. Analyzing the stuff around you sounds good. But the collection data part is in the gas mask. What it really should be doing is deciphering it for you, the difference being if you are a chemist you might be able to make checks to decipher it on your own without matrix connection, but the matric connection would give you either bonus dice or give you a skill level= to the rating of the device.


Things like the taser are similar but come across better MO since its data transmission method is up in the air, they chose not to try the wires for X reason. Where the gas mask there is no question on how it gets to you, the collection source is on you.

GPS and cell phone in your survival knife, um yeah that freaking works and is awesome. Dice pool bonus from first aid again awesome, it is accessing a huge range of medical sources no one person could know by heart,

The Matrix is the Internet insofar as much as that both are a world wide network which connects all devices. As such, it is extremely useful to use real world and Internet based analogies.

No, it really isn't like the internet. It contains the internet, much like the internet contains the web, but it isn't the same thing.

You'll have to explain that. As far as I can tell, the Matrix is a connection mesh. Everything happens on the nodes connected to it. The only difference I can perceive is that the connection protocols have changed, somewhat by providing full VR interface while on nodes, and that instead of using cable to connect everything together that runs through routers, the entire Matrix is no different than an ad hoc mesh wireless network that nodes can connect to and disconnect from freely that we are quite capable of creating today.

The Matrix is the technological astral. The old wired Matrix was internettish.

As I said, you need to explain more thoroughly what you mean. Nothing that I'm aware of the Matrix is alien or foreign to the technology of today. The implementation may be different but that's a function of specific technologies and protocols.

In fact, within the text of SR4a it issues the following line when describing its topology.



or practically the words I used in my previous post without having looked up the rulebook.



If you want to argue that you interact with it differently than we currently do. That's fine but that's the user interface. The user interface doesn't change the topology and underlying mechanisms by which the network works.

This doesn't make any sense. Google isn't adding any additional processing power nor providing any unique functionality. It's just an interface that you're familiar with using. If you had an easily accessible conversion application on your phone or computer, you wouldn't need Google at all for that task.

And if you had an easily accessible abacus, you wouldn't need your computer.

-Wired_SR_AEGIS

Again you people and your ludicrously awful analogies.